OSA Question

Boudicca

Patron
I know OSA infiltrates their enemies.

My question would be, how far do they go to appear one of the group?

They'd probably call Co$ names, etc., right?

But would they go so far as to actively distribute anti-Co$ literature and point people to anti-Co$ websites?

Would they say they had a friend who went in and never came out, call it an insidious cult and really negative stuff like that?


Just wondering.

Thanks for any insight.
 

Div6

Crusader
I know OSA infiltrates their enemies.

My question would be, how far do they go to appear one of the group?

They'd probably call Co$ names, etc., right?

But would they go so far as to actively distribute anti-Co$ literature and point people to anti-Co$ websites?

Would they say they had a friend who went in and never came out, call it an insidious cult and really negative stuff like that?


Just wondering.

Thanks for any insight.

They have been known to go to extreme lengths..so yes, they would do all of the above. Their infiltration and take over of the Cult Awareness Network is but one example.....Their harassment and collapse of the Lisa McPherson trust is another....
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I think one would stop short of actively promoting OT3 data; and one would stop short of actually receiving auditing from a non-CofS practitioner.

The reason is the internal CofS penalties for these actions are severe (effectively believing one would be cut off from personal spiritual salvation for a very, very long time), and the excuse that "it was being done as a cover" wouldn't necessarily work.

These restrictions would only apply to dedicated Scientologists, not non-Scn people working for them.

Paul
 

Veda

Sponsor
I think one would stop short of actively promoting OT3 data; and one would stop short of actually receiving auditing from a non-CofS practitioner.

The reason is the internal CofS penalties for these actions are severe (effectively believing one would be cut off from personal spiritual salvation for a very, very long time), and the excuse that "it was being done as a cover" wouldn't necessarily work.

These restrictions would only apply to dedicated Scientologists, not non-Scn people working for them.

Paul

There's another category, the "throw away." A "throw away" doesn't know he's regarded as unacceptable to the group, and is promised - insincerely - that he'll be brought back into the fold, IF...

Such a person could be sacrificed in any fashion, including being subjected to "other practices" and "squirrelling."

Of course, ultimately, almost anyone in Scientology is not only regarded, by Scientology, as a "throw away" (expendable), but as a potential enemy.

As for possible "suitable guises" - a "suitable guise" could be anything, as long as it is considered that it will obtain a desired result.
 

nw2394

Silver Meritorious Patron
Someone who had been declared as a suppressive person, but who wanted to be in good standing with the CoS, might do anything. They wouldn't necessarily be under much, if any OSA control, could behave like a loose cannon and do anything,

Nick
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I think it's been shown that 'OSA Ops' can and will say (and do) literally anything if they think it serves the 'cause', and, they think they can get away with it.

This includes things said or done to maintain a 'cover story', like picketing, etc., and discussing *any* aspect of Scientology, including 'Xenu' and 'confidential' material, but, also deliberately disparaging comments about the 'Church' itself and even David Miscavige.

There is no 'Xenu Test' and, not even a 'Say David Miscavige is an Asthmatic Dwarf Test'.

Certainly, they would willingly take part in 'Freezone Services' if that was required by their 'mission', and, as Tory Magoo's story points out, they are promised 'Ethics Protection' as part of their 'Op'.

Zinj
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Certainly, they would willingly take part in 'Freezone Services' if that was required by their 'mission', and, as Tory Magoo's story points out, they are promised 'Ethics Protection' as part of their 'Op'.

Nice theory, Zinji.

Can you name one who has? Or have you heard of a specific instance from any FZer of a plant actually receiving auditing?

I'm just looking over my years in the SO. It's not a question of risking a Comm Ev or getting taken off post, or even getting declared. There were some things that I just would not do as an SO member. I might even have been willing to die as a matter of "duty", but I would not have been willing to spread OT3 materials on the Net because of the immense harm they would do to others (or so I believed).

Plus the penalty from Hubbard, not contestable, is debarment from Advanced Courses forever. FOREVER. It's the biggest deal possible if you believe in this stuff. Gavino Idda saying, "Oh, don't worry, that penalty doesn't apply to you" is not going to cut it in this instance.

Would YOU take the risk?

Paul
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
I would say "pretty much anything" as well, but usually in a lame manner, if they are a practicing Scientologist, as they are pretending it and probably still being concerned about going too far.

SP declared people trying to get back in good standing would be less concerned, but I doubt they would freely talk about Xenu either, for fear of never being able to go up the Bridge (which would be their likely reason for wanting to get back in good standing).

If it is someone working by OSA who is not a Scientologists, essentially anything goes. They could care less for anything but a pay check.
 

Veda

Sponsor
I think it was Robert Vaughn Young who was the first to note that there was no "Xenu test," and the people at the original Cult Awareness Network also found that out to their dismay. No doubt the average member would be horrified - if they knew about Xenu in the first place - to "talk about Xenu," and I doubt if anyone - from Scientology - really freely "talks about Xenu," but the "Xenu test" hasn't been realistic for a long time.
 

MarkWI

Patron Meritorious
Nice theory, Zinji.

Can you name one who has? Or have you heard of a specific instance from any FZer of a plant actually receiving auditing?

I'm just looking over my years in the SO. It's not a question of risking a Comm Ev or getting taken off post, or even getting declared. There were some things that I just would not do as an SO member. I might even have been willing to die as a matter of "duty", but I would not have been willing to spread OT3 materials on the Net because of the immense harm they would do to others (or so I believed).

Plus the penalty from Hubbard, not contestable, is debarment from Advanced Courses forever. FOREVER. It's the biggest deal possible if you believe in this stuff. Gavino Idda saying, "Oh, don't worry, that penalty doesn't apply to you" is not going to cut it in this instance.

Would YOU take the risk?

Paul

Bob Mithoff was a plant sent by the Church in Mayo's Advanced Ability Center. If I heard correctly in one of the AAC graduations tapes available on Internet, Mayo or another speaker congratulates Bob for completing Advanced Ability 5.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I think it was Robert Vaughn Young who was the first to note that there was no "Xenu test," and the people at the original Cult Awareness Network also found that out to their dismay. No doubt the average member would be horrified - if they knew about Xenu in the first place - to "talk about Xenu," and I doubt if anyone - from Scientology - really freely "talks about Xenu," but the "Xenu test" hasn't been realistic for a long time.

The only real 'test' will ever be a confession by the 'Op' or when the raids finally reveal the details of various 'OSA Ops'. I know from experience that Scientologists working for OSA (in most cases not directly OSA themselves, since probably not Sea Org. Usually ex-Sea Org) can and do discuss Xenu quite freely, although, there is usually a 'twist' thrown in to dissemble. People like Bill Yaude, who played a half-dozen known identities, or Edwin Richardson, who discussed Xenu quite freely.

Further experience both here and over years on ARS has shown any number of people who most likely were working for OSA (and most likely Scientologists) who had no problem discussing Xenu, or, for that matter, that the 'Church' sucks and that Davey is a maniac. All in the vein of versimillitude I would assume. Some of these people say they're Scientologists; some were obvious Scientologists saying they were *not* Scientologists.

How could we ever know for sure? We can't. Not until they tell us or the details come out with seizure of the files.

In some cases the point to such charades is, among other things, to *demonstrate* the free-thinking and 'comming' ability of even a 'Church' Scientologist :)

But, I'd suggest that anyone in the 'Freezone' who thinks that someone who 'does a process' or 'audits in the Freezone' can't possibly be a 'Church' Op is suffering from the same delusion as people who used to think that a 'narc can't smoke a doobie...' :)

Does it matter? Usually not. Most 'Ops' are there for information gathering, and some are there for sabotage, in the sense of spreading discord, but; since it's impossible, lacking actual 'counter-espionage' tools, to know for sure, it's also usually not worth worrying about.

Better to know that you're 'infiltrated' than to trust to non-existent 'security' or 'tests'.

Zinj
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
My memory is a bit fuzzy on this. But I heard years ago (this happened maybe during the GO days) that a guy was sent to do some sort of infiltration - he was under orders not to say anything about it to anyone (only a few select people knew he had these orders). He was declared publicly. He couldn't talk to family or friends still in the church. And he still had to spend something like 5 or 10 years with this group he infiltrated.

He completed his mission and he had a really tough time getting back into the church and the good graces of his family.

So, anyone ordered to infiltrate an anti-scientology group (squirrel group or whatever) would basically be risking their chance to move up the Bridge. But I'm sure, if they think they are doing the greatest good for the greatest number, that they would go along with the orders. No matter what the orders were. Just my opinion.
 

johnAnchovie

Still raging
Jon Attak

The Church of Scientology Religious Educational College Inc. has a branch called Office of Special Affairs, United Kingdom. OSA UK ran the following op against John Attack. I can give names and dates, but won't here, as there are two OSA plants on this forum.

Sea Org member --Atractive Woman -- married with three kids, she is an OSA staff memeber working in data collection. She is sent on a mission.

Mission: Blow the org; go to Attack, get him to help you, sleep with him, get loads of info, report back to Peter Sumbkie - now deceased - and recieve further orders.

She lived and 'worked' with Attack for about six months, before blowing his life apart. She told me later that she had fallen in love with him, but still executed the mission, because that is how she was programed.

A.W. did all of the above, with her help, OSA broke up John's marraige, bankrupted him, and essentially ruined his life. Why? Because he wrote the most incisive account of Scientology to that date, and since, in my opinion.

A.W. was a very good friend of mine, her marraige broke up too, once the mission was complete, she returned to base, worked in a low level capacity, remarried, left the Sea Org. Still a Scientologist, because the kids, her own Mom, dad and new hubby, are practicing Scnsts.

Successful mission accomplished.

And you thought the FBI were bad?

But please do not be put off, OSA has crimes like these all over the shop, I am exposing what I know, broadly, so are others.

JA
 

Veda

Sponsor
When I wrote "really freely" (in the prior post) I meant fully and openly without an agenda. Selected persons, no doubt, have "talked freely about Xenu," and - with Xenu TV and "XENU" on T-shirts - that shouldn't be too much of a surprise, but as noted, there usually is a "twist."

And squirrel groups have been infiltrated going back to the late 1960s, with Jack Horner's group (Eductivism), and in the 1980s, a number of splintered Missions were infiltrated, with one person, whom I knew personally (who later admitted what he had been doing), receiving and, I think, also giving some auditing.

It was just part of the "suitable guise adopted to obtain a desired result."

Such people usually think of themselves as "007"-types on a special mission; usually they don't know that their PC Folders have been "culled" by the Cult.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
ZINJ
But, I'd suggest that anyone in the 'Freezone' who thinks that someone who 'does a process' or 'audits in the Freezone' can't possibly be a 'Church' Op is suffering from the same delusion as people who used to think that a 'narc can't smoke a doobie...'

BB
I'd say in theory maybe.

But in my 8 or so years in the FZ, with more connections than most, I don't think its happened. There is in fact no evidence.

The nearest we get to this is the guy who infiltrated Rons Orgs in a Moscow get together. He came as a student, was spotted immediately and audited no one.

Back then Mayo had enormous pressure on him. A ten year legal fight.

We know OSA may be on our forums collecting data. Several actual
examples exist.

There is NO evidence that any FZ auditor is OSA. Or ever has been,
at least in my time.

COS/OSA is a declining power. Miscavidge holding all from above can't
operate this dept. Rinder has blown.

Me and other UK FZers have had OSA on their doorsteps. They all
ran away eventually.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
That is why there is no way one can prove to critics one isn't OSA. This is a serious charge often levelled quite casually at people. If one mentions being expelled or mentions Xenu or anything else, others may seek to explain it away.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
ZINJ
But, I'd suggest that anyone in the 'Freezone' who thinks that someone who 'does a process' or 'audits in the Freezone' can't possibly be a 'Church' Op is suffering from the same delusion as people who used to think that a 'narc can't smoke a doobie...'

BB
I'd say in theory maybe.

But in my 8 or so years in the FZ, with more connections than most, I don't think its happened. There is in fact no evidence.

The nearest we get to this is the guy who infiltrated Rons Orgs in a Moscow get together. He came as a student, was spotted immediately and audited no one.

Back then Mayo had enormous pressure on him. A ten year legal fight.

We know OSA may be on our forums collecting data. Several actual
examples exist.

There is NO evidence that any FZ auditor is OSA. Or ever has been,
at least in my time.

COS/OSA is a declining power. Miscavidge holding all from above can't
operate this dept. Rinder has blown.

Me and other UK FZers have had OSA on their doorsteps. They all
ran away eventually.

I guess you proved that you never caught any OSA Ops :)

Of course, I never caught the invisible unicorns in my closet either

Zinj
 

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
I guess you proved that you never caught any OSA Ops :)

Of course, I never caught the invisible unicorns in my closet either

Zinj

Zinj!

Take a walk, look at the trees and birds and sky...

You are sounding paranoid.

Scientology is hardly the bogeyman you seem to make it in your mind, all knowing, powerful and devious.

Dude, get some perspective, you may be spending too much time and attention on scientology and not on life.

alex (who likewise puts too much attention on scientology at times)
 
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