OSAMA/OBAMA

[Thrak]

Yeah that's what I read too and it makes sense but of course creates credibility problems.

Now I see the big thing of the day is that OBL was unarmed. America can be such a stupid place. I believe most of the people in the WTC were unarmed as well. But I also believe we've more than had our revenge. The estimated death toll from violence in Iraq since 2003 is over 100,000.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

And to think Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 should be a lot more upsetting to most Americans than it seems to be. Did I mention racism a few posts ago? But the US? Oh never! But not racism in the sense that some are trying to suppress these other peoples but racism in the sense that some don't see these people as human so don't mind taking out a hundred thousand of them as long as they can keep on filling up the SUV.

Do I think the US is a bad place? No I just think people need to come to grips with the animalistic nature of our policies and behavior and stop pretending we're saints. All of this behavior comes from nature in the first place, we just have to decide if we want to keep acting like animals or not.

 

[AnonKat]

he is "swimmimg with the fishies" he is "fishfood" he has gotten "cement shoes"

 

[paradox]

Yeah that's what I read too and it makes sense but of course creates credibility problems.

Now I see the big thing of the day is that OBL was unarmed. America can be such a stupid place. I believe most of the people in the WTC were unarmed as well. But I also believe we've more than had our revenge. The estimated death toll from violence in Iraq since 2003 is over 100,000.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

And to think Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 should be a lot more upsetting to most Americans than it seems to be. Did I mention racism a few posts ago? But the US? Oh never! But not racism in the sense that some are trying to suppress these other peoples but racism in the sense that some don't see these people as human so don't mind taking out a hundred thousand of them as long as they can keep on filling up the SUV.

Do I think the US is a bad place? No I just think people need to come to grips with the animalistic nature of our policies and behavior and stop pretending we're saints. All of this behavior comes from nature in the first place, we just have to decide if we want to keep acting like animals or not.

Hey, Thrak, I don't think it's fair to slur or impugn the character of the animal kingdom with the psychotic and greedy behavior with which humanity so often demonstrates its uniquely self-appointed lordship over the rest of nature. Especially since they're not here to defend themselves. I'm joking somewhat but mostly not.

If we "act like animals" at all, those times are probably our more reasonable, harmonious moments. Seems to me that humanity is the only species around here (Earth) that demonstrates a malignant malice in its heart of being. I could be mistaken, but it seems that the only instances I've heard of where other mammals, for instance, go berserk or demonstrate an odd neurosis is when they come into or have been in prolonged contact with humans; such as the continual destruction or invasion of their natural habitats with the impingement of sprawling human development - housing, industry, etc.

I think that with the rest of the animal kingdom, particularly our kindred mammals, violent behavior towards others in their own or other species (in mating competition and rituals, acquisition of food, territorial dispute) is a very small, minor percentage of their complete behavior; the majority being spent in sleep, repose, migrations, in the nurture and caring for their young and so forth. And, unlike our own species, I see no malice or greed in any of that, except for the occasional oddity as mentioned earlier where an individual animal in too sustained contact with our species has gone berserk, neurotic, or developed a penchant for stalking humans.

 

[Thrak]

Hey, Thrak, I don't think it's fair to slur or impugn the character of the animal kingdom with the psychotic and greedy behavior with which humanity so often demonstrates its uniquely self-appointed lordship over the rest of nature. Especially since they're not here to defend themselves. I'm joking somewhat but mostly not.

If we "act like animals" at all, those times are probably our more reasonable, harmonious moments. Seems to me that humanity is the only species around here (Earth) that demonstrates a malignant malice in its heart of being. I could be mistaken, but it seems that the only instances I've heard of where other mammals, for instance, go berserk or demonstrate an odd neurosis is when they come into or have been in prolonged contact with humans; such as the continual destruction or invasion of their natural habitats with the impingement of sprawling human development - housing, industry, etc.

I think that with the rest of the animal kingdom, particularly our kindred mammals, violent behavior towards others in their own or other species (in mating competition and rituals, acquisition of food, territorial dispute) is a very small, minor percentage of their complete behavior; the majority being spent in sleep, repose, migrations, in the nurture and caring for their young and so forth. And, unlike our own species, I see no malice or greed in any of that, except for the occasional oddity as mentioned earlier where an individual animal in too sustained contact with our species has gone berserk, neurotic, or developed a penchant for stalking humans.

Well thanks for the levity but the human race is a product of nature no matter how un-natural it seems. Eat or be eaten, survival of the fittest and all that which is what I was talking about. I remember watching a show about lions and hyenas. They HATE each other and will kill each other for spite and not food. Some hyenas came across a snake bit mother lion and killed all of her cubs and left her there.

And I saw some extensive footage of tigers recently and they are the most vicious thing you can imagine. Like 100's of millions of years of distilled aggression. They won't just kill you but scare the shit out of you in the process. Still beautiful but they are testament to just how violent nature is.

The point I was making is that is the world we emerged from where violence, scarcity, and misery were everywhere. It's just a matter of wether we can ever leave that behind.

 

[justin]

When was Bin Laden's trial? I must have missed that.

Oh wait, I forgot -- we don't need trials anymore. The government says you're guilty & the TV set says you're guilty -- hell, just shoot 'em in the head and dump 'em in the ocean!

It's the American way! GO USA!!!! GO USA!!!!

I can't wait until the cops do the same. You know: Cop says the guy was speeding? Why, just shoot the guy in the head right there by the roadside and dump him in the ocean! Forget all that horseshit about courts and judges and legal defense and all that other tinfoil crap!!!!! I swear these conspiracy theorists are just a bunch of old ninnies!

 

[Dulloldfart]

When was Bin Laden's trial? I must have missed that.

Oh wait, I forgot -- we don't need trials anymore. The government says you're guilty & the TV set says you're guilty -- hell, just shoot 'em in the head and dump 'em in the ocean!

It's the American way! GO USA!!!! GO USA!!!!

Is it still an act of war and against international laws to *pretend* to murder someone in a sovereign country that you are not (officially) at war with?

Paul

 

[Thrak]

Is it still an act of war and against international laws to *pretend* to murder someone in a sovereign country that you are not (officially) at war with?

Paul

Is that the route you're going on this? Al Jazeera isn't saying that?

 

[VaD]

US Military Power = Loose Cannon of the World

Vietnam, Gulf War, Kosovo (Yugoslavia), Iraq, Aphganistan...

Story will continue.

Sad but true... Military Power of US is insatiable.

They will seek new enemies. ... and, as usual, on the opposite side of the Globe.

The question one has to ask from US Government is not "How can we now live without wars?" but "Who's next?"

 

[Dulloldfart]

Is that the route you're going on this? Al Jazeera isn't saying that?

It was just an idle thought I had. I haven't a clue what Al Jazeera's position is. Concerns for International Law hasn't seemed to figure much in the US's invading of (resource-rich) sovereign countries without Congress declaring war.

Paul

 

[Thrak]

It was just an idle thought I had. I haven't a clue what Al Jazeera's position is. Concerns for International Law hasn't seemed to figure much in the US's invading of (resource-rich) sovereign countries without Congress declaring war.

Paul

I agree with you on that. I think at this point you have to look at the US military as a private security force for the corporate powers of the Western world. They are not there to serve the interest of the US public - but they do have to give that illusion somewhat.

 

[VaD]

I don't understand US external politic at all.

Do you, Americans?

 

[Thrak]

I don't understand US external politic at all.

Do you, Americans?

We're on a mission from God.

 

[VaD]

Why so much attention (= interest = significance) to Bin Laden?

What did this killing of Bin Laden accomplish for US? For humanity?

- I want to know.

 

[VaD]

We're on a mission from God.

Sorry, I didn't get the answer. Could you elaborate?

 

[lkwdblds]

The use of the word "racism"

Yeah that's what I read too and it makes sense but of course creates credibility problems.

Now I see the big thing of the day is that OBL was unarmed. America can be such a stupid place. I believe most of the people in the WTC were unarmed as well. But I also believe we've more than had our revenge. The estimated death toll from violence in Iraq since 2003 is over 100,000.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

And to think Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 should be a lot more upsetting to most Americans than it seems to be. Did I mention racism a few posts ago? But the US? Oh never! But not racism in the sense that some are trying to suppress these other peoples but racism in the sense that some don't see these people as human so don't mind taking out a hundred thousand of them as long as they can keep on filling up the SUV.
Do I think the US is a bad place? No I just think people need to come to grips with the animalistic nature of our policies and behavior and stop pretending we're saints. All of this behavior comes from nature in the first place, we just have to decide if we want to keep acting like animals or not.

Thrak, on racism, I believe that the term should be used sprecifically when a person or group is discriminated against, or in the worse case killed, mainly on the basis of what race they are. Whatever the U.S.A. did in Iraq, and I agree with you that much of it was far from optimum, I do not believe that "race" was a factor in any way, shape or form.

The usage of the term has become quite loose in recent times and I really do not know what it means in many instances used today. For example, people in Arizona, wanting to enforce their borders and protect their ranches and properties near the Mexican border are often termed racist as if somehow, they consider Mexican people an inferior "race". Here again,the term is used too losely; the main thrust of the ranchers is simply property protection.

Iraq and Mexico are both large countries, especially Mexico. In Iraq, people are not all the same race. I don't know that people of Arabic descent are of any particular race. If someone attacks the country of Iraq, I don't see that it can ever be considered an act of racism based on the long standing definition of the word. Ditto for trying to keep trespassers of one's property near the Mexican border. How can attempting to prevent trespassing on one's property ever be considered racism. I'm sure that rancher's in the area would treat all trespassers in the same manner, regardless of their race.

MY ONLY CONCERN HERE IS THAT USING THE TERM "RACISM" TOO FREELY, SERVES TO CHEAPEN WHAT THE WORD ORIGINALLY MEANT. When a word like that is cheapened, and is used commonly, then when REAL "racism" is practiced the word cannot be used effectively any more because the word has been watered down. In such a case, what would you call real racism?
Lakey

 

[VaD]

Thrak, on racism, I believe that the term should be used sprecifically when a person or group is discriminated against, or in the worse case killed, mainly on the basis of what race they are. Whatever the U.S.A. did in Iraq, and I agree with you that much of it was far from optimum, I do not believe that "race" was a factor in any way, shape or form.

The usage of the term has become quite loose in recent times and I really do not know what it means in many instances used today. For example, people in Arizona, wanting to enforce their borders and protect their ranches and properties near the Mexican border are often termed racist as if somehow, they consider Mexican people an inferior "race". Here again,the term is used too losely; the main thrust of the ranchers is simply property protection.

Iraq and Mexico are both large countries, especially Mexico. In Iraq, people are not all the same race. I don't know that people of Arabic descent are of any particular race. If someone attacks the country of Iraq, I don't see that it can ever be considered an act of racism based on the long standing definition of the word. Ditto for trying to keep trespassers of one's property near the Mexican border. How can attempting to prevent trespassing on one's property ever be considered racism. I'm sure that rancher's in the area would treat all trespassers in the same manner, regardless of their race.

MY ONLY CONCERN HERE IS THAT USING THE TERM "RACISM" TOO FREELY, SERVES TO CHEAPEN WHAT THE WORD ORIGINALLY MEANT. When a word like that is cheapened, and is used commonly, then when REAL "racism" is practiced the word cannot be used effectively any more because the word has been watered down. In such a case, what would you call real racism?
Lakey

You said many words but haven't addressed the issue.

ESMB is not a board for redefining life.

I often say words that come to my mind first (while, after careul thought, I see how I could have said it better).

ESMB is not any kind of political platform. - It's still a space for Ex-Scientologists to vent and share their experiences...

How about you said something to the point of this thread, Lakey?

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Why so much attention (= interest = significance) to Bin Laden?

What did this killing of Bin Laden accomplish for US? For humanity?

- I want to know.

We feel about him the way any other nation would have, had it happened to them.

Bin Laden tried to bomb the World Trade Center in the 90s. Failed. Then succeeded Sept 11, 2001. He also bombed the Pentagon. A third plane that was either headed for Camp David or the White House was diverted by angry passengers and they sacrificed themselves.

In the World Trade Center bombing, over 3000 American were murdered. Some were children. People died in the Pentagon bombing too.

When the story aired, Palestinians were dancing in the streets and laughing. I saw an interview with some government official where the person could barely contain her joy. Later, though, the government issued a statement indicating regret, sympathy, etc. But by then people had seen the news footage so I suspect that most of us took that with a grain of salt.

So that's why.

 

[VaD]

My nation has had many more losses than your nation.

But we don't scream about it all over the world and don't go fighting some citizens of those countries we think caused us trouble (spending billions on that war).

- Not an offence. Simple comparison.

 

[justsayin']

I don't understand US external politic at all.

Do you, Americans?

do you really want an answer?

 

[Leon]

Why so much attention (= interest = significance) to Bin Laden?

What did this killing of Bin Laden accomplish for US? For humanity?

- I want to know.

It is not difficult to understand. America wants complete domination over the entire world and all of its peoples. That is their basic goal at present. So nobody must ever do anything contrary to American interests. This would be a crime which fully justifies America's right to intervene anywhere in the world and deal with such a person in any way they like. Oh, and they also own all of the minerals in the world and all of the wealth etc etc.

And there you go! Now what was so hard to understand about that?

Add to this the fact that American politicians are stupid and cannot predict th consequences of their actions, are poor judges of people and what they will do and have an established record of stuffing up and the habituall try to fix one stuff up with another - and Hey Presto! You have the world of today.

Feel better now?