OSAMA/OBAMA

[justsayin']

 

[VaD]

US will never win. Until there is Russia.

 

[VaD]

It is not difficult to understand. America wants complete domination over the entire world and all of its peoples. That is their basic goal at present. So nobody must ever do anything contrary to American interests. This would be a crime which fully justifies America's right to intervene anywhere in the world and deal with such a person in any way they like. Oh, and they also own all of the minerals in the world and all of the wealth etc etc.

And there you go! Now what was so hard to understand about that?

Add to this the fact that American politicians are stupid and cannot predict th consequences of their actions, are poor judges of people and what they will do and have an established record of stuffing up and the habituall try to fix one stuff up with another - and Hey Presto! You have the world of today.

Feel better now?

see my post above

 

[justsayin']

he is "swimmimg with the fishies" he is "fishfood" he has gotten "cement shoes"

 

[Thrak]

Thrak, on racism, I believe that the term should be used sprecifically when a person or group is discriminated against, or in the worse case killed, mainly on the basis of what race they are. Whatever the U.S.A. did in Iraq, and I agree with you that much of it was far from optimum, I do not believe that "race" was a factor in any way, shape or form.

The usage of the term has become quite loose in recent times and I really do not know what it means in many instances used today. For example, people in Arizona, wanting to enforce their borders and protect their ranches and properties near the Mexican border are often termed racist as if somehow, they consider Mexican people an inferior "race". Here again,the term is used too losely; the main thrust of the ranchers is simply property protection.

Iraq and Mexico are both large countries, especially Mexico. In Iraq, people are not all the same race. I don't know that people of Arabic descent are of any particular race. If someone attacks the country of Iraq, I don't see that it can ever be considered an act of racism based on the long standing definition of the word. Ditto for trying to keep trespassers of one's property near the Mexican border. How can attempting to prevent trespassing on one's property ever be considered racism. I'm sure that rancher's in the area would treat all trespassers in the same manner, regardless of their race.

MY ONLY CONCERN HERE IS THAT USING THE TERM "RACISM" TOO FREELY, SERVES TO CHEAPEN WHAT THE WORD ORIGINALLY MEANT. When a word like that is cheapened, and is used commonly, then when REAL "racism" is practiced the word cannot be used effectively any more because the word has been watered down. In such a case, what would you call real racism?
Lakey

Lakey I would have to agree in the sense that the word is over-used but the point I'm making is that people do not necessarily target a certain race for who they are.

The reason black slaves were imported into the US was because they were stronger. You could put them in horrible conditions on a slave ship and some would actually still be alive when they arrived as others may not be. It was economic not about suppressing a certain group. It is simply some seeing others as less than them and so they refuse to empathize.

That was my overwhelming sensation just before the Iraq invasion in 2003. What would it be like to in Baghdad when the world's largest military had you in it's sights? And terms like "shock and awe" were thrown out, and the news channels had little graphics of bombers and how many people they could kill. It WAS racism and in the extreme. People refused to look at the other guy's point of view because they were different, heathens, animals, terrorists, evil doers.

And like I said before, over 100,000 dead and no WMD. Oops, sorry. But we're God's country so we have the right to do that and sorry you're kid got his arms blown off. Peace, see ya! Here's a chocolate bar.

The fact that that entire debacle isn't a bigger part of the country's conscience shows where we really are. I grew up in the South. I've seen this shit up close and personal and nobody's telling me it's anything different than what it is.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

My nation has had many more losses than your nation.

But we don't scream about it all over the world and don't go fighting some citizens of those countries we think caused us trouble (spending billions on that war).

- Not an offence. Simple comparison.

I feel quite confident in saying that if, during peacetime, someone came to the middle of Moscow and bombed the Kremlin, that Russia would be yelling as loud as we.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

It is not difficult to understand. America wants complete domination over the entire world and all of its peoples. That is their basic goal at present. So nobody must ever do anything contrary to American interests. This would be a crime which fully justifies America's right to intervene anywhere in the world and deal with such a person in any way they like. Oh, and they also own all of the minerals in the world and all of the wealth etc etc.

And there you go! Now what was so hard to understand about that?

Add to this the fact that American politicians are stupid and cannot predict th consequences of their actions, are poor judges of people and what they will do and have an established record of stuffing up and the habituall try to fix one stuff up with another - and Hey Presto! You have the world of today.

Feel better now?

Well, Leon, we didn't ask them to come into American airspace and bomb innocent civilians. Imperialist the US may be and in fact, it is certainly such. But that does not mitigate the events of 9/11 and it does not make the anger of the American public any less understandable. And the other nations involved are at least as imperialistic as we. The Islamofascists want to make the whole world bow to sharia law. So it's kind of a pot, kettle black situation in some cases.

 

[VaD]

entire debacle isn't a bigger part of the country's conscience

Yes!

 

[VaD]

I feel quite confident in saying that if, during peacetime, someone came to the middle of Moscow and bombed the Kremlin, that Russia would be yelling as loud as we.

I'm quite sure that Russia wouldn't claim a War to the World after that, either.

 

[VaD]

VC, Russia has been through many many things quite worse than yours (in US)... Many many things much much worse than yours.

- And we are still here.

 

[Thrak]

The power of the American blinders still really stuns me. Maybe people should consider things go back earlier? Like thousands of years earlier.

 

[AngeloV]

I feel quite confident in saying that if, during peacetime, someone came to the middle of Moscow and bombed the Kremlin, that Russia would be yelling as loud as we.

Like:
• Oct 2010 - Six people killed as militants storm parliament in Chechnya, North Caucasus

• Mar 2010 - Suicide bombings at two Moscow metro stations kill 40 people; attack blamed on North Caucasus militants

• Nov 2009 - Bomb blast hits Moscow-St Petersburg luxury express train, killing 26; North Caucasus Islamist group claims responsibility

• Sept 2004 - Chechen rebels seize school in Beslan; 334 hostages, including many children, killed in ensuing battle

• Aug 2004 - Suicide bomber blows herself up at a Moscow metro station, killing 10

• Aug 2004 - Two Tupolev airliners that took off from Domodedovo blown up in mid-air by suicide bombers, killing 89 passengers and crew

Most likely, the Russians have been dealing with the terrorists in their own way. The difference between how they deal with it and the US may be that they don't announce to the world when they assassinate the bad guys. I'd put money on a bet that the Russian FSB and SVR do plenty of killing out of sight.

 

[justsayin']

Lakey I would have to agree in the sense that the word is over-used but the point I'm making is that people do not necessarily target a certain race for who they are.

The reason black slaves were imported into the US was because they were stronger. You could put them in horrible conditions on a slave ship and some would actually still be alive when they arrived as others may not be. It was economic not about suppressing a certain group. It is simply some seeing others as less than them and so they refuse to empathize.

That was my overwhelming sensation just before the Iraq invasion in 2003. What would it be like to in Baghdad when the world's largest military had you in it's sights? And terms like "shock and awe" were thrown out, and the news channels had little graphics of bombers and how many people they could kill. It WAS racism and in the extreme. People refused to look at the other guy's point of view because they were different, heathens, animals, terrorists, evil doers.

And like I said before, over 100,000 dead and no WMD. Oops, sorry. But we're God's country so we have the right to do that and sorry you're kid got his arms blown off. Peace, see ya! Here's a chocolate bar.

The fact that that entire debacle isn't a bigger part of the country's conscience shows where we really are. I grew up in the South. I've seen this shit up close and personal and nobody's telling me it's anything different than what it is.

i don't disagree with anything you've said. and i'm not really a political person, but here is an old fart's perception of this. i lived through the vietnam years. we didn't belong there either. but there was a difference. that was a draft war. you had no choice but to go, leave for canada or site conscientious objections. if you stayed, you lived with the ridicule of those claiming you to be non-patriotic or a wuss. this was voluntary enlistment. some were told they wouldn't see combat. but things changed. and in both cases, you have the elite that run things behind the scenes. those from affluent/educated backgrounds or those that are simply more intelligent. then you have those considered to be part of the "throw away" society. little or no education, poor background. they run the front lines. (and yes, i'm generalizing.) so those that come from the "rah rah let's go kill" in the name of patriotism are likely the typical people that enlisted. we have a local guy here who is very affluent. his son could have done anything he liked. what did he do? he joined the navy seals. so the last report i heard was that this kid was all excited. he had his first "kill". would i lose sleep if he didn't make it back? not a bit. but beyond how many lives on both sides of this were lost, my greater belief is that a lot of what is wrong with the planet is sheer overpopulation. so a few 100,000 less is okay by me. sounds awful, but there it is.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Like:
• Oct 2010 - Six people killed as militants storm parliament in Chechnya, North Caucasus

• Mar 2010 - Suicide bombings at two Moscow metro stations kill 40 people; attack blamed on North Caucasus militants

• Nov 2009 - Bomb blast hits Moscow-St Petersburg luxury express train, killing 26; North Caucasus Islamist group claims responsibility

• Sept 2004 - Chechen rebels seize school in Beslan; 334 hostages, including many children, killed in ensuing battle

• Aug 2004 - Suicide bomber blows herself up at a Moscow metro station, killing 10

• Aug 2004 - Two Tupolev airliners that took off from Domodedovo blown up in mid-air by suicide bombers, killing 89 passengers and crew

Most likely, the Russians have been dealing with the terrorists in their own way. The difference between how they deal with it and the US may be that they don't announce to the world when they assassinate the bad guys. I'd put money on a bet that the Russian FSB and SVR do plenty of killing out of sight.

So nobody should say anything about 9/11?? :confused2:

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I'm quite sure that Russia wouldn't claim a War to the World after that, either.

Russia's quite aggressive and war like at times. But then again, I only say this because I read a lot of history and listen to a lot of current events.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

VC, Russia has been through many many things quite worse than yours (in US)... Many many things much much worse than yours.

- And we are still here.

And so are we.

(I mean to say that your point is a non sequitur. You asked why the Osama Bin Laden thing was a big deal to us. And I answered it. Period.)

 

[Thrak]

i don't disagree with anything you've said. and i'm not really a political person, but here is an old fart's perception of this. i lived through the vietnam years. we didn't belong there either. but there was a difference. that was a draft war. you had no choice but to go, leave for canada or site conscientious objections. if you stayed, you lived with the ridicule of those claiming you to be non-patriotic or a wuss. this was voluntary enlistment. some were told they wouldn't see combat. but things changed. and in both cases, you have the elite that run things behind the scenes. those from affluent/educated backgrounds or those that are simply more intelligent. then you have those considered to be part of the "throw away" society. little or no education, poor background. they run the front lines. (and yes, i'm generalizing.) so those that come from the "rah rah let's go kill" in the name of patriotism are likely the typical people that enlisted. we have a local guy here who is very affluent. his son could have done anything he liked. what did he do? he joined the navy seals. so the last report i heard was that this kid was all excited. he had his first "kill". would i lose sleep if he didn't make it back? not a bit. but beyond how many lives on both sides of this were lost, my greater belief is that a lot of what is wrong with the planet is sheer overpopulation. so a few 100,000 less is okay by me. sounds awful, but there it is.

You know, I really see both sides of this thing. Maybe people think I'm a bleeding heart I don't know. A few posts back I made the comment that if you live here and reap the rewards, you're in on it. Maybe that's just the way life is and I believe it is and I do very much enjoy living on US soil. But what bothers me is the pretentiousness.

You could say it's a tough world and it's either us or them and who could argue? But to claim we're what's right and Godly and only true evil doers would ever attack us because we're innocent. All I can say to that is give me a fuckin break.

My favorite movie is Apocalypse Now and it gets into this whole American mindset pretty well.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I am not interested in defending or condemning the US for killing Bin Laden. I simply answered a question about why he was such a big deal to us. That's ALL I was interested in answering or addressing. So I really don't care that this other country's better/worse/the dog ate their homework.

Whatever.

If your country's awesome, great. Have fun. My interest was in answering ONE question. Not getting into a discussion about who had more done to them.

 

[VaD]

Russia's quite aggressive and war like at times. But then again, I only say this because I read a lot of history and listen to a lot of current events.

Really? - Did Russia fight countries on the opposite side of the Globe?
Did Russia invade other countiries (for no reason other than feel itself better than them)?

 

[VaD]

I am not interested in defending or condemning the US for killing Bin Laden. I simply answered a question about why he was such a big deal to us. That's ALL I was interested in answering or addressing. So I really don't care that this other country's better/worse/the dog ate their homework.

Whatever.

If your country's awesome, great. Have fun. My interest was in answering ONE question. Not getting into a discussion about who had more done to them.

So, WHY was he such a big deal to you???

(So as to spend billions of dollars on searching and fighting him)