OSA's Official DA on Debbie Cook's e-mail

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Can the church get away with being selective in its enforcement of the NDAs? There are others who have signed those whom the church has not sued. Amy Scobee is a good example.

Amy wrote a book for goodness sake but Amy talked about how DM was violent and I suppose they didn't want to touch that with a ten foot(bullet) pole.

I wouldn't want them going after Amy but, if pressed they might have to admit that Amy was already a lying apostate, who was easily discredited, and so there was no need to go after her but then that would lead back to how Debbie must not have been considered as such and that her damage was caused by the fact that she was still in good standing.

Can they choose their battles this way and not run into trouble?


On choosing battles, I see two stable datums: Cash in coffers, and destruction to SPs. All else stems from that.

Certainly, destruction of SPs can cost a bundle in lawyer fees, but justifiably, it is other people's money, as in IAS donations, not actual church funds.

It makes no sense because... It is serfac logic. Hubbard never had his found and cleared.
 
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NonScio

Patron Meritorious
The answer is simple. Those folks are espee for the same reason that Trotsky, Bucharin, and most of the other "old comrades" were found to be bourgeoise, counter-revolutionary Trotskyite revisionists ... because Stalin said so, and the military, the Cheka (later known as the KGB), the inner party aparachiks, and the outer party hacks all listened to him and followed his orders ... probably because they, too, were afraid of being declared to be bourgeoise, counter-revolutionary Trotskyite revisionists as well.

Pete

Ever watch old documentaries about Stalin? Those big meetings of the
Supreme Soviet. The wild, unending applause following any speech by
the Great Leader. I think it was Kruschev who later commented
in his memoirs that the applause went on and on...no one wanted to be
first to stop clapping for fear of being singled out as somewhat suspect,
not truly a good Communist.

Stalin led a Big Cult. Big Cult with Nuclear Weapons.
Fast forward 60 years. Mini cult in USA wants to be Big Cult.
Has Stalin wannabe as Great Leader. Name is Davey Miscaviage.
(Name dosent have the pizazz "Stalin" did.) Mini cult puts on many big
cult "events", DM speaks, crowd goes wild. Followers afraid to stop applauding.
Ok so far, but alas, mini cult has no Nuclear Weapons. Just pea shooters.
Pea shooters Davey's minions don't even know how to use properly. Keep shooting themselves in their feet. Bad for cult. Bad for DM.
Stalin is gone. Big Cult is gone. Mini cult too is on its way to the dustbin of history.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

Can they choose their battles this way and not run into trouble?

We'll find out. :)

Debbie Cook, by e-mailing so many "in good standing" Scientologists, and challenging the post-1993 IRS-deal fund-raising practices, stepped, majorly, on Scientology's financial lines. That would have set off all alarms and all sirens in Source's Apprentice, Miscavige's, head.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
On choosing battles, I see two stable datums: Cash in coffers, and destruction to SPs. All else stems from that.

Certainly, destruction of SPs can cost a bundle in lawyer fees, but justifiably, it is other people's money, as in IAS donations, not actual church funds.

It makes no sense because... It is serfac logic. Hubbard never had his found and cleared.

By the way, all...you can request refunds from the IAS for your lifetime donations. I requested and received mine back in 2002 or 2003.

If you haven't asked for yours yet, now would be a GREAT time to get the ball rolling! :eyeroll:
 

Dilettante

Patron Meritorious
I think that's a job for a dedicated free zoner/ indie who still gives a shit about all of LRH's turgid bullshit. Once someone realizes its all nothing but a complex scam I can't imagine having the patience to try and wade throughout his ramblings and word salads to prove anything.

We all know LRH purposely produced so much material and went in so many bizarre directions as his mood swung, needs, wants and opinions changed that you could pretty much back up any opinion or point of view with an LRH reference. The only type of source you won't find is any that gets in the way of giving money to Hubbard.

I'll never wrap my head around the idea of people using Hubbard's inane, puely fictional blathering pulled directly out of his ass (I always love when culties refer to his "research" ha!) to "prove" anything.




-

I understand where you're coming from but consider lrh's tech is what will discredit lrh's tech, ultimately. Finding the gaping flaws in "source" and witnessing the hypocrisy (once out) is fascinating and gruesome, pointing it out to law enforcement and judicial appointees is just thrilling.
Dil
 

Feral

Rogue male
This, I think supports Debbie Cook's actions:

"We could, at this time, put together an organization or a group in Scientology sufficiently strong, sufficiently powerful to run over everything it came to. This would be a fascinating thing to do. Be a game in itself. And then someday-me gone, other guys gone-all of a sudden there sits this thing, this organization. And somebody has to rise up and say, "Auditors of the world, unite; overthrow this monster!" And everybody would see it go down very plainly, you see. Down it'd go. Then they'd say, "Fine! Now we are free." And they would get another handful of letters canceling their certificates. (audience laughter)

I try to look far enough in the future to forecast and predict what might be, so as to not do too many things wrong. You must allow me some percentage. And as I look into the future, I see that we are handling here, material of a potential control and command over mankind which must not be permitted at any time to become the monopoly or the tool of the few to the danger and disaster of the many......

And I believe that the freedom of the material which we know and understand is guaranteed only by a lightness of organization, a maximum of people, good training and good, reliable, sound relay of information. And if we can do these things, we will win. But if we can't do these things, sooner or later the information which we hold will become the property of an untrustworthy few. This I am sure, because it has always happened this way. But that's not reason it has to keep on happening this way. I am not of an inevitable frame of mind ...

Scientology, well understood, is a very powerful thing. Poorly relayed, poorly communicated, monopolized or used exclusively for gain, it could be a very destructive thing."

- LRH
From the "Anatomy of the Spirit of Man" congress lectures. Tape 6, June 1955.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Here are a few more LRH quotes (and one Dr. Winter quote). "Lightness of organization," from June 1955, has been inserted into the time line. :)

"I can make Napoleon look like a punk." L. Ron Hubbard, from his "real goal" 'Excalibur' letter, 1938

"Men are my slaves." L. Ron Hubbard, from his 'Affirmations', 1946

"There was a difference between the ideals inherent in the Dianetic hypothesis and the actions of the Foundation in its ostensible efforts to carry out these ideals. The ideals, as I saw them, included non-authoritarianism and a flexibility of approach. The ideals... continued to be given lip-service, but I could see a definite disparity between ideals and actualities." Dr. J.A. Winter, who wrote the Introduction for 'DMSMH' in 1950, from his book, 'A Doctor's Report on Dianetics', 1951

"No rights of any kind... Dispose of quietly and without sorrow." L. Ron Hubbard, 'Science of Survival', 1951

"Ruin utterly." "Always attack." "Debate engaged upon [that] demeaned and degraded Scientology... SHOULD NEVER BE PERMITTED." [caps in original] L. Ron Hubbard, 'Manual on Dissemination of Material', March 1955

"Lightness of organization..." June 1955

"Dianetics and Scientology are self-protecting sciences. If one attacks them one attacks all the know-how of the mind. It caves in the bank. It's gruesome sometimes.

"At this instance there are men hiding in terror on Earth because they found out what they were attacking. There are men dead because they attacked us - for instance Dr. Joe Winter [wrote Introduction to 'DMSMH', and the book, 'A Doctor's Report on Dianetics' with an Introduction by Fritz Perls]. He simply realized what he did and died. There are men bankrupt because they attacked us - [Don] Purcell, Ridgeway, [publisher of 'DMSMH'] Ceppos." L. Ron Hubbard, 'HCO Manual of Justice', 1959

"Find or Manufacture enough threat." L. Ron Hubbard, 'Department of Government Affairs', 1960

"Have you ever had unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard?" L. Ron Hubbard, Security Check, 1961

"Suppressive acts include public disavowal of Scientology... public statements against Scientology...continued membership in a divergent group... continued adherence to a person or group pronounced suppressive..." L. Ron Hubbard, 'Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists', 1965

"I am not interested in wog morality... I can make Captain Bligh look like a Sunday School teacher," L. Ron Hubbard, 'Discipline, SPs and Admin', 1969
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Ulf really takes the time to pull the lies apart in the DA pack. I suggest any CofS Scio who is lurking around trying to weigh this up read Alf's write up.

He was also being very polite and gentle. A good tactic for his intended audience.

One couyld be rougher!
 

NonScio

Patron Meritorious
How about the pizazz of Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili, Stalin's actual name!

Yep, Vissarionnovich Dzhugashvili would be a hard sell as a "Man of Steel".
John Wayne would probably not have gone far as Marion Morrison.
If David Miscaviage changed his name to say, "Dave Savage",
he might come across as a bit more dangerous, a bit sexier..at least maybe
to the gay bdsm scene. Then Cruise and "Savage" would really raise some
Hollywood eyebrows!
 

asteroid

Patron with Honors
One of my reoccurring WTF’s during my time in Scn and SO days is perfectly framed by this latest little gem from OSA re: Debbie.

Over the years a whole lotta folks from John Q. Public’s to McMaster, Roos, Hana to the Mayo’s, etc. were trained and processed to the highest “levels”, had “stellar stats” and sacrificed most other parts of their lives for years and years all for the good of the group. Then one fine day they’re and “SP”, “Criminal”, “Nobody”, a “worthless and destructive” staff member. And, therein, was my big WTF. :yes:

How can the “Tech” be right, be perfect be valid if a person can go to the top of the “Bridge” and either not be “detected” or “found out” or, especially, suddenly turn SP, Evil and Insane? :confused2:

Any practicing SCN that doesn’t have a WTF about that is either lying to themselves or is so far gone they will probably never recover…M&M come to mind…of course they’d say that DM’s the SP…along with Mayo, Hana, Armstrong, etc…which only proves my point. :coolwink:

Face :)

And that is why so very many people left when the Mayos and other top execs left in 1982.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
And that is why so very many people left when the Mayos and other top execs left in 1982.

Face makes a similar point that I was making and says it very well with his WTF's. The fact that those on Solo NOTS have to get extensive security checking twice a year also drives the point home.

Management says, "Now that they are so OT, even the tiniest transgression causes a feeling of wrongdoing in the person which is manifested as a withhold." The OT levels are advertised as making a being greater than a mere homo sapians. Such a being is supposed to rise to unimagined heights of spirituality and is considered a "homo novis. Surely homo novis shouldn't need to be constantly monitored to see if he is thinking evil thoughts but that is exactly what happens!

WTF, if the second highest level on the bridge brings about a need for more sec checking unstead of "no more" sec checking, that does not say much for the level. Why bother shelling out the big bucks for it when it causes management to trust the person less instead of more?
Lakey
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Face makes a similar point that I was making and says it very well with his WTF's. The fact that those on Solo NOTS have to get extensive security checking twice a year also drives the point home.

Management says, "Now that they are so OT, even the tiniest transgression causes a feeling of wrongdoing in the person which is manifested as a withhold." The OT levels are advertised as making a being greater than a mere homo sapians. Such a being is supposed to rise to unimagined heights of spirituality and is considered a "homo novis. Surely homo novis shouldn't need to be constantly monitored to see if he is thinking evil thoughts but that is exactly what happens!

WTF, if the second highest level on the bridge brings about a need for more sec checking unstead of "no more" sec checking, that does not say much for the level. Why bother shelling out the big bucks for it when it causes management to trust the person less instead of more?
Lakey


Great point.

And by logical extension, the more OT one becomes the greater responsibility one can take, therefore the definition of an OVERT is a constantly changing one, with progressively smaller transgressions "reading" and requiring handling. Otherwise the OT cannot get case gain, will dramatize motivators and worse.

Thus, by the time someone gets up to OT X or OT XV, it won't take much for them to cave in and need a Review.

On the upper band of total cause, when something bad happens anywhere in the world, they will cave in because they should have taken responsibility for it.

Pretty evil trick to play on someone--to make them responsible for all the evil in the world.

Isn't this how people go completely insane?

I know Hubbard's tech drove him insane, so that's all i need to know.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Face makes a similar point that I was making and says it very well with his WTF's. The fact that those on Solo NOTS have to get extensive security checking twice a year also drives the point home.

Management says, "Now that they are so OT, even the tiniest transgression causes a feeling of wrongdoing in the person which is manifested as a withhold." The OT levels are advertised as making a being greater than a mere homo sapians. Such a being is supposed to rise to unimagined heights of spirituality and is considered a "homo novis. Surely homo novis shouldn't need to be constantly monitored to see if he is thinking evil thoughts but that is exactly what happens!

WTF, if the second highest level on the bridge brings about a need for more sec checking unstead of "no more" sec checking, that does not say much for the level. Why bother shelling out the big bucks for it when it causes management to trust the person less instead of more?
Lakey


Good point!

This is Management-style case supervision, a reflection of what happens outside of the supposed sanctity of a session. The modus operandi? Break down the individual to as close to nothing as possible without vegitizing him or killing him off--even though that sometimes happens. The RPF is the OT-7 of management tech. Now he's setup for the OT-8 bognition which, from recollection of my reading on internet, is "Now that I know who I am not, I am ready to find out who I am." During such a breakdown you could expect a reversal of case condition and the need for routine sec checking.

I have always been amused over the duplicity of these upper levels. Beginning with the one-size-fits-all bridge, the fundamentals of auditing are little by little thrown out the window. Whereas evaluation on the lower levels in a no-no, it is the rule in upper levels. The pre-OT is specifically told what to run and how to run it. Whereas Hubbard has stated in the C/S Series that as the being progresses up his bridge, he begins to feel wonderful, more and more like himself, and he will so state--because he IS more himself. I will attest to that being true as observed from 3 sides of the meter, auditor, pc, C/S. Apparently, that type of progress was found to be an undesirable case condition. :dieslaughing:

But lo and behold, when he completes OT-8 he only knows who he is not!? :dieslaughing::dieslaughing::dieslaughing:

What a crock 'o shit!
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
Yep, Vissarionnovich Dzhugashvili would be a hard sell as a "Man of Steel".
John Wayne would probably not have gone far as Marion Morrison.
If David Miscaviage changed his name to say, "Dave Savage",
he might come across as a bit more dangerous, a bit sexier..at least maybe
to the gay bdsm scene. Then Cruise and "Savage" would really raise some
Hollywood eyebrows!

Or how about Dick Savage or Richard Head ?
:hysterical:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
I read Ulf's analysis and refutation of the DA Pack. I thought it was excellent!
Someone had to do it and I think Ulf did a very good job of it. :hattip:

I read it yesterday and really liked it too. His analysis on the claim that Scientology has grown 40 times larger since the 1980's is very well stated and documented. Back in the 70's and 80's the mailers from ASHO used to come to me and on their back page they listed all the Orgs in North America. At the time there were about 45 or so in the USA, about 6 in Canada and 5 in Mexico. This year I received an ASHO paper in the mail and the count was about the same, about 50 to 55 Orgs in all of North America. One thing we are sure about is that the Org's in the 70's and 80's were a lot more crowded that they are today.

In the mid 70's, ASHO day had about 200 on the Briefing Course and ASHO Foundation had about the same number in the evening. At lunch and after course, the streets were teeming with students. The parking lots and surrounding streets were full of Scientologist's cars. It was a beehive of activity. Drive by there today and on the surface, things look like a ghost town, or like a secret war compound during a war. There is very tight security and all sorts of security personell are patrolling on foot, on bicycles and in cars. There are some staff visible as well but just a hand full of public, at least on the surface. I have not been inside ASHO for years so I don't know for sure what is going on inside but a cursory glance makes one think there is not much activity.
Lakey
 
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