OT 8 parents declared Suppressive Persons for refusing to disconnect from son

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Sheldon's stepson, Nick Lister, was declared. He now lives in Los Angeles.. https://www.facebook.com/nick.lister.90

Sheldon & his wife, Sara.. https://www.facebook.com/sheldon.goldberg.3

https://www.facebook.com/sara.goldberg.754

Their daughter, Ashley (who's disconnected from them) & husband, Matt Epstein.

190648_10200091795754759_1257336635_n.jpg


There is a photo of Sheldon's autistic granddaughter, Gaby, on Matt's page.. https://www.facebook.com/mepstein22

http://www.clearwaterdreaming.com/sara_goldberg.htm
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
This cult is totally bonkers.

You have people who can't leave the SO, endless routing forms if they try, guards to keep them from straying, barbed wire keeping some in who are even considered suppressive, living in hole, and you have public who are considered good income sources, declared, because they talk to someone who talked to someone who is considered naughty.:no:
 

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
If these folks have been in scio for 40 years then they know the 'scientology ethics' policies very, very well. Now, when those policies are being applied to their family, the reality of what that policy means is hitting them square in the face. And suddenly, they feel the real pain that it causes.

They, no doubt, have seen this happen to *other* people time and time again and have implicitly endorsed disconnection for 40 years. They have intentionally cast a blind eye to all of the pain it has caused.

When one gets into scio, it doesn't take very long at all to be introduced to the 'ethics' policies. As soon as you say something like 'my mom disagrees with scio' or 'my friend says scio is a cult', you will be sent to the ethics officer immediately. They have snagged you into the cult and now they will apply the policies that will keep you there. This is where the brainwashing is really applied and where you learn about disconnection. Oh they won't tell you to disconnect right away. No, the policy is applied gently at first. But as you progress, it is applied harder and harder until you get what these folks are experiencing.

This is one of a great many policies that makes scio a CULT.
 

Sassy

Patron Meritorious
Oh FFS, stories like this are disgusting! Hey, CULT: Disconnection is right here, right now, all the time. That these robots keep parroting that it doesn't exist is completely delusional.

I cannot wrap my mind around a group that LOVES you & your beliefs, lalalalala, everything is great! We're your friends, give us your money, life is great! Oh wait, you're LEAVING our group? Ok then we'll never speak to you again. And we'll lambaste you in writing and anywhere we can. Oh, and you'll NEVER see your family again, and that includes speaking to them. Either do what we say & believe or you're completely OUT.

What the EFF kind of group is that?? I am more & more pissed off with this cult and so frustrated that this is happening. :angry::angry::angry::angry:
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
Dear Sheldon & Sara,

I'm so sorry that this disconnection by your daughter and your friends at the instruction of Scientology has happened to you.

I hope you find your way here to ESMB where you will be met with open arms and love by a large group of people who have been walking this same road.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
This cult is totally bonkers.

You have people who can't leave the SO, endless routing forms if they try, guards to keep them from straying, barbed wire keeping some in who are even considered suppressive, living in hole, and you have public who are considered good income sources, declared, because they talk to someone who talked to someone who is considered naughty.:no:

I wonder if the "good income sources" dried up sometime before the declare was issued? Would they have been declared if they were still "good sources of income"??

Makes you wonder about the dilemma a reg would be in if one of these good sources of income walked in with $20,000 in cash but carrying a sign for all to see that said "David Miscavige is an SP"? Would they make them sign a waiver, grab the cash and THEN issue the declare? LOL! The mind reels with possibilities.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Its a disgrace that the cult is (still) doing this and I'm a bit surprised they would boot people of such a 'high level' and of such long standing (from the PR viewpoint) ... maybe some good will come out of this one though because they are 'OT VIII' and have been in the cult for 40 years and a lot of people will know of them and may wake up and make a run for the door when they hear that they are now 'SPs'.

:melodramatic:

I do wonder how much of this silliness it will take for some of these people to face the truth about the con, it's almost as if they don't think disconnection will ever happen to their family, so apparently they continue to pretend they are special until it does ... and then they're shocked.

I don't usually feel like this when I hear about disconnections but I'm finding it hard to feel too much sympathy today ... these people have supported this insanity for 40 years!

I do feel very sad for the granddaughter and the kids that were dragged into the world of crazy.



Thank you!

The dark hole that you are shining illumination into is INDIE SCIENTOLOGY's DIRTIEST LITTLE SECRET.

From direct observation of and their own testimonials, it is quite clear that the great majority of "Indies" spent decades sycophantically grinning-and-winning every time their "church" or "religion" told them to lie, disconnect from or attack another innocent person.

It was only when their "church" turned the very same policies against them personally that they began proudly thumping their own chests and chattering incessantly about their own "integrity".

And for full comedic effect, when the reborn Indie is dutifully reciting the time, place, form and event of the unstoppable SP David Miscavige (whom they believe to be the source of all these suppressive action against themselves) they are always sure to quote L. Ron Hubbard's works to prove that "Ron" had nothing to do with any of the devastation that was visited upon them by "their church". The big laughs really begin when the "insouciant" Indie wrings their hands, lamenting how Miscavige didn't follow Hubbard's policies--WHEN HUBBARD'S POLICIES ARE EXACTLY & PRECISELY WHAT WERE FOLLOWED in lying, bankrupting, declaring, disconnecting and fair gaming them.

All these self-proclaimed (spiritual) war-hero-Indies would still be supporting, facilitating and perpetrating the very same human rights abuses & atrocities--had they been allowed to remain the victimizer ("total cause") rather than victim ("total effect"). Hyp-Hyp-Hypocrisy!
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
If these folks have been in scio for 40 years then they know the 'scientology ethics' policies very, very well. Now, when those policies are being applied to their family, the reality of what that policy means is hitting them square in the face. And suddenly, they feel the real pain that it causes.

They, no doubt, have seen this happen to *other* people time and time again and have implicitly endorsed disconnection for 40 years. They have intentionally cast a blind eye to all of the pain it has caused.

When one gets into scio, it doesn't take very long at all to be introduced to the 'ethics' policies. As soon as you say something like 'my mom disagrees with scio' or 'my friend says scio is a cult', you will be sent to the ethics officer immediately. They have snagged you into the cult and now they will apply the policies that will keep you there. This is where the brainwashing is really applied and where you learn about disconnection. Oh they won't tell you to disconnect right away. No, the policy is applied gently at first. But as you progress, it is applied harder and harder until you get what these folks are experiencing.

This is one of a great many policies that makes scio a CULT.

Well described!

In the past few years, when a good, tech-fearing Scientologist became the victim of the tech they worshipped, they would suddenly make celebrated, guest appearance on Marty Rathbun's website. They'd get the full celebrity treatment with headlines, a photo op and a pulpit to sermonize and cleanse their soul in the form of a public Doubt Formula. That little ritualistic "Indie rite of passage" seemed to be working so well. But now Marty seems to have retired from the business of being an evangelical leader, preaching wall-of-fire and brimstone in order to save souls and slay others with the rapture of reborn-Scientology.

So, there is no more red carpet and bright lights to celebrate cult members who don't like when Hubbard's policies are applied to themselves? This brings up a very curious question:

WHERE DO SCIENTOLOGISTS GO NOW
WHEN THEY WANT TO LEAVE THE COS
AND BLAME SOMEONE FOR ALL THE
CRIMES & HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES
THAT THEY HAVE BEEN COMMITTING
OR SUPPORTING FOR DECADES?
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I do wonder how much of this silliness it will take for some of these people to face the truth about the con, it's almost as if they don't think disconnection will ever happen to their family, so apparently they continue to pretend they are special until it does ... and then they're shocked.

When I was first declared, I was very upset about the forced disconnection from family and friends. Who wouldn't be? It took me about 2 days to ask myself, "what the hell did I think was going to happen?" And, then answered to myself that I had seen the insanity going on for years, and I quickly admitted to myself that OF COURSE, my case would not be any different.

I had seen people declared and talked to various declared SPs over the years, starting very early on when I was in the Sea org since I was out in the field as an Advanceman or FSC. And, I saw and had to admit to myself that NONE of them were "bad or evil", and that Scientology functioned like an unthinking machine, steamrolling over decent people. That is one of the reasons I left the Sea Org and stayed on the far fringes of Scientology for most of my involvement. I saw how nuts it was and I didn't like it. I stayed away from it. I considered a great deal of Scientology behavior to be "entheta".

Now, I was never a gung-ho, rah-rah-rah type, I rarely went to events, I lived in Clearwater (to be near my kids) and had an answering machine (which I NEVER answered if it was Flag). I was OT III since 1984, but all through the 1990s, I NEVER joined the "OT Committee", never joined WISE, and had zero interest in the high level of enthusiasm and participation required of so many. I suppose I just never thought there was enough truth or value in it to be so closely involved. So, while I have a small bit of sympathy for those who get declared and suffer the shock of disconnection, also, I have the view that they ARE "responsible for their own condition". How?

They stayed and supported that INSANE GROUP for so MANY YEARS. They saw it done to others, over and over and over. In a sense it is Karma. They are getting back what they caused to others - if only through their "overts of neglect, denial and omissions". In a sense, ANY person who contributes THAT long and with large amounts of money to the Church of Scientology has truly helped HURT OTHERS. What goes around comes around.

It can be a tough lesson. :yes:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Have you tried using "corporate Scientology," "the Scientology organization," or "Scientology Inc." ?

It seems that every trick in the book is being used to condition people to identify Scientology Inc. as a "religion," even going so far as implying that people who disagree with that identification are neurotic, irrational, or even "anti-religion," and simply hate the word "Church." This is a "lower gradient" than would be used by admitted Corporate Scientologists, who would describe such uncooperative people as "disgruntled apostates," or "ethics cases," "no case gain cases," and "by-passed charge cases."

It's interesting to watch the handful - actually it's fewer than a handful - of people who are circling the "Scientology's a religion" wagon, so to speak, on this issue, as two recent arrivals at the MB repeatedly tell us that Scientology "is a religion, is a religion, is a religion," either through direct argument, or by casually slipping in that idea in almost any discussion.

Hubbard described this type of action as "installing a stimulus response mechanism" in the "homo saps," and strongly recommended it be used.

Terrific post! Insightful!

As far as Scientologists who run these nutty little campaigns to repetitively chant the words "church" and "religion" when speaking about Scientology--there is another curious principle at work as well. It's the "HUBBARD LAW OF 10" which states:

Even with 10 dictionaries
10 word clearers
and 10 pounds of clay,
a Scientologist still could not understand it.
Because of the 10 points of KSW.

This law explains why a Scientologist cannot possibly clear the word "cult"; or clear the word "clear" for that matter.

It also explains why a Scientologist can't properly clear the word "church" or "religion".

By Scientology standards, if the Nazis had used a cross instead of a Swastika and issued a policy "canceling" the use of the term "concentration camp" (because it is out PR), the Nazis would also be a real church and a real religion.

WHAT I EXPECT OF A SCIENTOLOGIST: I expect a Scientologist or Scientology facilitator to now post something non-sequtur about the word "religion" or "church". LOL (Example: "When I posted that Scientology was the only religion that could salvage this sector, I was merely using the word "religion" in sentences in order to gain full conceptual understanding. Hey, you shouldn't be so literal with everything everyone says!"
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
It amazes me that the church excommunicates an OT over such things. I can understand if they did something criminal (I mean wog-world criminal, like murder or child molestation or something) in the name of the church or at an org or something but to me excommunicating an OT is like excommunicating a priest in a Christian church and an OT 8 might be more like excommunicating a bishop or something.

This video explains the philosophy behind the Church's actions, with DM being played by the boss grasshopper, and the ant being the latest Scn to defy orders from management.

[video=youtube;tlWZZSD4irM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlWZZSD4irM[/video]
 
In as much as Scientology believes in the existence of the thetan as an immortal being, it is a religion. Hateful as that may be, there is no getting around it. Thus it is a church, if in name only. It is also a cult. Further, it is also a sociopathic, psychotic, narcissistic, delusional, moneygrubbing, abusive, brainwashed zealot producing, mind controlling organization. And, again, it is a religion.

Sigh.

You can say it is a cult wearing the vestments of a religion, it in no way behaves as a religion, yadda yadda, on and on till you have worn the letters off your keyboards and have cloned new vocal chords to replace the ones you trashed shouting in protest lines.

You just can't escape it. It is a religion. :banghead:

Mimsey
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
These people have rights.

Florida Laws: FL Statutes - Title XLIII Chapter 752 Grandparental Visitation Rights

Legal Research Home > Florida Laws > Domestic Relations > Florida Laws: FL Statutes - Title XLIII Chapter 752 Grandparental Visitation Rights

752.001 Definitions.
For purposes of this chapter, the term "grandparent" shall include great-grandparent.History.—s. 5, ch.
752.01 Action by grandparent for right of visitation; when petition shall be granted.
(1) The court shall, upon petition filed by a grandparent of a minor child, award reasonable rights of visitation to the grandparent with respect to the...
752.015 Mediation of visitation disputes.
It shall be the public policy of this state that families resolve differences over grandparent visitation within the family. It shall be the further public...
752.02 Persons who must be served notice of petition; manner of service.
Notice of the filing of, and a copy of, the petition for grandparental visitation rights shall be served on the parents of the minor child...
752.07 Effect of adoption of child by stepparent on right of visitation; when right may be terminated.
When there is a remarriage of one of the natural parents of a minor child for whom visitation rights may be or may have been...

Last modified: May 31, 2013
http://law.onecle.com/florida/domestic-relations/chapter752.html

Just make sure the mediator is not a scientologist, like Jean Brasel
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
<snip>

You just can't escape it. It is a religion. :banghead:

Mimsey

Yup, because 20 000 brainwashed zealot zombies desperate not just to be one with God, but to be God, can't be wrong. If they say it is a religion, well I guess it must be.:biggrin:


Which reminds me of my enduring question. When does the brainwashed excuse end and personal responsibility start?
Before anything thinks I don't believe the cult brainwashes people. I do believe brainwashing is a big factor, I just question how far it goes.

If the brainwashing is so deep and powerful why does it disappear the minute it hits home? If it is not brainwashing but an article of scientological faith, then those who are declared and still believing should accept their fate as for the greatest good of the group. No?


Re the OP. Mr and Mrs OTVIII are declared and writing about it on Facebook. I love it. Perfect timing. I am sorry they are experiencing the pain of disconnection that is so familiar to many here.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
In as much as Scientology believes in the existence of the thetan as an immortal being, it is a religion. Hateful as that may be, there is no getting around it. Thus it is a church, if in name only. It is also a cult. Further, it is also a sociopathic, psychotic, narcissistic, delusional, moneygrubbing, abusive, brainwashed zealot producing, mind controlling organization. And, again, it is a religion.

Sigh.

You can say it is a cult wearing the vestments of a religion, it in no way behaves as a religion, yadda yadda, on and on till you have worn the letters off your keyboards and have cloned new vocal chords to replace the ones you trashed shouting in protest lines.

You just can't escape it. It is a religion. :banghead:

Mimsey


I can escape it. LOL.

If bank robbers dressed up like Catholic Priests, would that also be a religion?

You seem to be confusing the fact that Scientology is a BUSINESS that is hiding behind a criminal cult that is pretending to be a religion.

If one simply separates the RELIGION part from the BUSINESS (money) part, that solves the whole problem.

Let Scientology be a religion. Let them hold their sunday "services" and make "donations".

But the moment there is a PRICELIST FOR SERVICES, that part belongs in the business section, taxed and regulated like any other business.

Don't ya see, that's where the confusion comes into it.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Some background, for curious lurkers, on Scientology Inc.'s contempt for families, and abuse of families and children:

Hana Eltringham Whitfield: "There were secretive flights to New York from the ship by Hubbard aides and others for abortions either condoned or ordered by Hubbard... Women who became pregnant did not want to be sent off the ship so they chose, in some cases, to have the abortions and, in some cases, Hubbard ordered them to have abortions".

Interviewer: "So the issue of forced abortions is not new?..."

Hana: "No, it's not new. It existed on board the Royal Scotman."

This is from 1:48 - 3:06, in part four of a six part interview with Hana Eltringham Whitfield.

In this segment, Hana also discusses the death of Susan Meister and the cover up by Hubbard. Also discussed are the scandalous conditions in the children's nursery at the Fort Harrison (Flag Land Base) in 1975, 1976, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhyNmwI6UI


From the 1952 Philadelphia Doctorate Course:

"We mustn't mention this because, God help us, there goes the moral code. Penicillin took out the disease level and now... [a person] can take a couple of beams of energy.... and terminate a pregnancy. Nothing wild or forceful or upsetting or anything like that. Just make sure the tube opens. It's very simple. There are muscles and so forth that contract and expand at a certain period every month, and that sort of thing."

Gleefully, Hubbard continued:

"Pregnancies that have been as much as three months advanced have been terminated that way... Isn't this fascinating? So you've got something like birth control sitting right there in theta clearing... It's just deadly. One, two, three!"

1952, 'PDC' lecture. Hubbard explains how wonderful it is that OTs can now induce abortions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI71dkquCEE


And, from a precept from 'The Way to Happiness' "moral code" booklet, written, in 1980, as PR cover while Hubbard was in hiding after the exposure of his amoral, immoral, and criminal teachings and activities:

On the topic of sex, in 'TWTH', one precept advises against promiscuity, explaining that, "A 'feeling of guilt' is no where near as sharp as ground glass in the soup."

Note that "feeling of guilt" is in quotes.


__________​


As early as 1951, Hubbard had spoken dismissively of "conscience." In the lecture, 'Cause on All Dynamics', he said:

"What is conscience? It is simply a negating against your own, not somebody else's, causes. If there is such a thing as conscience, it would be that...

"Now, you want to know anytime in your life when you have felt guilty... you go back earlier and find the postulate that you are guilty of disobeying [and erase the postulate]."


_________​


Hubbard expressed the idea of being free of the "impediment" of conscience more simply, during a ('PDC') lecture in 1952:

"Never be the effect of your own cause."


_________​


And on the family:

"The GE [Genetic Entity] is a family man. The GE is lost without the family. It's very strange but Homo Sap is a family unit. The GE is built on that basis...

"And your thetan, by the way, can much more easily go into a group. Families are not good groups."

From 10 December 1952, PDC lecture series.


So much of what is occurring in Scientology today is an echo of what happened - under Hubbard - in the past.


__________​


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp6uh_mKLbA

More from video #4 of Hana, beginning at 3:50:

"There was Susan Meister's so-called suicide... and there was her body being shipped back to the United States in a sealed coffin because of a cholera scare in Morocco.

"Well, there was no cholera scare in Morocco.

"There was simply a PR - what was simply a cover-up, ordered by Hubbard because he did not want Susan's family in the United States to be able to open the casket and to look at the body, and to have their own autopsy done, and come to their own conclusions as to how she died.

"And to prevent that from happening he [Hubbard] dreamed up a cholera scare... managed to convince the... authorities to seal the casket...

"And it was just a cover-up.

"Twenty years later, ... the father, Mr. Meister, called Jerry and myself, his voice breaking, pleading for help. He was still searching for information on exactly what happened to his daughter."


_________​


The 12 February 1967 Policy Letter 'Admin Know-How, the Responsibility of Leaders' -a.k.a. The Bolivar Policy Letter:

"[The power asks] 'What are those dead bodies doing at the door'. And if you [the subordinate] are clever, you never let it be known HE [the power] killed them - that weakens you and also hurts the power source. 'Well, boss about all those dead bodies, nobody at all will suppose you did it. She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn't like me'. 'Well', he'll say if he really is a power, 'Why are you bothering me with it if it's done and you did it. Where's my blue ink?...

"...always push power in the direction of anyone on whose power you depend. It may be more money for the power, or more ease, or a snarling defense of the power to the critic, or even the dull thud of one of his enemies in the dark, or the glorious blaze of a whole enemy camp as a birthday surprise...

"...Real powers are developed by tight conspiracies of this kind... and if they are right and also manage their man [the power] and keep him from collapsing from overwork, bad temper or bad data, a kind of juggernaut builds up."



http://www.xenu-directory.net/victims/meister1.html

A bullet hole in the middle of her forehead, but no powder burns.


__________​


And, then there's Hubbard's peculiar attitude towards "boys" in this 1950s lecture. Make of this what you will...

Note Hubbard's ridiculing&dismissive attitude toward sex with little boys at 1:17 - 1:34, and at 3:04 - 3:12:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeMQIO3TgyM


__________​


And then there's this ditty from 'Mission Earth' volume 9; 'Villainy Victorious':

Oh, a soldier's life is the life for me;
Tuma-a -diddle; tuma-a-diddle, paw-pata
In camp and plain, I'm always free
To tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-paw~
No women ever spoil my view
With tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-pam
They're always wanting something new
Not tuma-diddle; tuma-diddle, paw-pam
For it is the men that I enjoy
To tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-pav.~
The best there is I find is boy!
Oh, tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle; paw-pam
The enemy I do not mind
If tuma-diddle, tuma-diddl4 paw-paw
Can go on in my behind
With tuma-diddle; tuma-diddle, paw-pa~
And if my bunkmates all are kind
With tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-pam
Surrounded by ten thousand (bleeps)
That tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-pa~
All passionate and hard as rocks
To tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-pazt~
Eager to slide in my buttocks
And tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle, paw-paw!
So (bleep), (bleep), (bleep) and (bleep) in me!
Tuma-diddle, tuma-diddl4 paw-pam
And let me (bleep) and (bleep) in thee
With tuma-diddle, tuma-diddk, paw-pam
Oh, what a love-ul-lee Arm-ee!
With its tuma-diddle, tuma-diddle;
OH! BOY!



In case anyone is wondering what Hubbard was thinking about, instead of working on writing up those upper OT levels that he promised all those years.


__________​


From Hubbard's gleeful affirming of the ease of abortions, to his disdain of "Homo Saps" and their preoccupation with families, to the inferiority of the family unit as a group, to his 'Pain and Sex' HCOB, the seeds of what would happen, later, were planted by Scientology's founder long before.

Apparently, the Sea Org swung from infant&child neglect and abuse to a prohibition on having babies. The abuse of children in the Sea Org began with Hubbard ordering stern punishment and confinement of children who were regarded as misbehaving on the "Flagship," on which he was the "Commodore," then there was his encouragement that children be inducted into the Sea Org as young as 12, or younger, including as his personal servants.

Child care at Sea Org facilities in the 1970s, by most accounts, was certainly not good, and in 1974, Hubbard even came up with the Children's RPF. As early as 1961 there was a Children's Security Check for ages 6 - 12. Apparently, after 12, the child - an "ancient thetan in a little body" - would be eligible for an adult Security Check.

Adult (over age 12) Sec Check is 2nd one down: http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/isd/isd-5i.htm


__________​


L. Ron Hubbard established the Children's RPF in 1976:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW8ZqGSkXjI


__________​


Here's the Sec Check for Children, written by L Ron Hubbard.

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF 21 SEPTEMBER 1961
[/CENTER]

Franchise
SECURITY CHECK CHILDREN

HCO WW Security Form 8

The following is a processing check for use on children.
Be sure the child can understand the question. Rephrase it so he or she
can understand it. The first question is the most potent.

Children's Security Check

Ages 6 -- 12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMmnBXcYN9Q


__________​


As usual, Scientology surrounds itself with a protective "defense" perimeter, from giant crosses on its "Churches," to photographs of happy, wholesome, families, and there's plenty of Hubbardian PR verbiage to accompany it.

laweekly-cover-small.jpg



_________​


The "Cancellation" of Disconnection of 1968 was a PR handling, and the HCOPL re. that cancellation is an example of "Policy" being used as PR to mislead - in essence fake or display policy - much like the sham "Cancellation" of Fair Game which occurred at the same time.

Recently, even Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder have stated that Disconnection was never discontinued, and have also explained that the re-affirming of Disconnection, in the early 1980s - amidst an ongoing Scientology schism which had some naive people citing the faux (never actually implemented) 1968 "cancellation" of Disconnection - was by order of L. Ron Hubbard.


From Tony Ortega's blog, from last year:

Xenu in reply to Sketto:

Since I worked for HCO [Hubbard Communications Office] during the 1970s, I'd thought I'd chime in with what I personally witnessed during those years.

Hubbard actually did cancel disconnection, after Australia had cracked down, and New Zealand was on the verge of outlawing the cult. Not only did he cancel disconnection, but he also banned Fair Game, sec checks, and the recording of what went on in auditing sessions. Way cool, huh?

The only problem was that the policy letter cancelling those things was only issued to the New Zealand government commission that was considering the banning of Scientology.
[note: It was also mentioned in a few other places, such a PR book written for Scientology, and, and there was a show made of displaying Hubbard's 1968 faux "Reform Code" for "wogs" and "raw meat."]

I oversaw a ton of disconnection during the 1970s, and had to disconnect from a couple of people myself. I personally saw that they continued to happen at major Class IV [now called Class V] and SO [Sea Org] orgs just as they always had. Nothing changed... Sec checks and Fair Game continued, despite the wholly disingenuous sham of policy change.

Andre Tabayoyon, and various other poster here, who were in HCO in the '70s, can easily vouch for me on this
...

Here's some more from Xenu over at Tony O's at the Village Voice:

...Hubbard was getting a lot of PR flack over disconnection, so he wrote a policy which would help PR a lot without changing anything significant. I'm sure it was meant to be misunderstood by outsiders...

The policy did NOT cancel disconnection, rather it said that 'disconnection as a condition' was cancelled. Now, one might well ask, WTF is 'disconnection as a condition'?

If you dig through some ancient ethics folders, you would find that they would often explicitly state that the subject of the ethics order was to disconnect from one or more other parties who would be named in the ethics order, and that reinstatement to good standing would not happen until that had been done. THAT was disconnection as a condition.

So we stopped naming names of people to be disconnected from in ethics orders. Instead, Type A PTS would be told that they had to handle or disconnect, and if handling was impossible, well, too bad! And people still had to disconnect from SPs... the Nov '68 policy had no real impact other than PR.


Here's a little more background: From Volume One of the OEC Course, HCO Division, a.k.a. a Green Volume, from 1974, HCOPL dated 23 December 1965, 'Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists', and on page two of that HCOPL there is a list of suppressive acts over forty lines long - most of the page.

"Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce, or impede Scientology or Scientologists...

"[Such suppressive acts include] public disavowal of Scientology... public statements against Scientology.

"[Suppressive acts also include] continued membership in a divergent group; continued adherence to a Suppressive Person or group pronounced a Suppressive Person or group by HCO; failure to handle or disavow or disconnect from a person demonstrably guilty of suppressive acts; being at the hire of anti-Scientology groups or persons...
"


Disconnection - as is the essence of Fair Game - has been part of the Scientology Philosophy since 1951. Ref.: the book, 'Science of Survival'.


With Scientology solidifying its identity as a "Church" and a "religion" - by both overt and covert actions and, of course, through the use of "dupes" - it becomes less and less likely that such abuses as Disconnection will cease.

I quoted all of this to have this added to it...it's from Richard de Mille, author of "How to Live Though an Executive", who is "outed" shortly after this. He transcribed Science of Survival in Cuba, a project he started there when Ron ran there with Alexis during his divorce with Sara Northrup. It was Sara that Richard de Mille was practicing "Black Dianetics" on at the behest of Ron.

Here's from an interview with Richard de Mille:

"When I got back to Wichita Ron was living with his housekeeper, who'd already made designs on him, but she didn't last. He enjoyed women, liked to have a woman to go to bed with and if the woman got pregnant you just had to handle that. Mary Sue was just another student in the programme when I got there. I liked her and we talked when we went out to dinner. Not long after that she got hooked up with Hubbard. She said she'd like to go out with me but I said I had to go to LA and said let's do it when I come back. But I didn't come back.

Hubbard was sleeping with his housekeeper. She was an attractive woman in her 40s. He didn't like to have a woman around without making use of her. He had a large old house in a pleasant residential area."
 

Lone Star

Crusader
I can escape it. LOL.

If bank robbers dressed up like Catholic Priests, would that also be a religion?

You seem to be confusing the fact that Scientology is a BUSINESS that is hiding behind a criminal cult that is pretending to be tia religion.

If one simply separates the RELIGION part from the BUSINESS (money) part, that solves the whole problem.

Let Scientology be a religion. Let them hold their sunday "services" and make "donations".

But the moment there is a PRICELIST FOR SERVICES, that part belongs in the business section, taxed and regulated like any other business.

Don't ya see, that's where the confusion comes into it.

Ahhh but religion has always been about money when you look beyond all the fluff and bullshit. Scientology is just more overt about the money.
 

iHateDuplicity

Patron with Honors
If the brainwashing is so deep and powerful why does it disappear the minute it hits home? If it is not brainwashing but an article of scientological faith, then those who are declared and still believing should accept their fate as for the greatest good of the group. No?

I have never said this about any post before, no matter how outrageous, but for some reason this one struck me and I have to comment on it. I find this post offensive.

Who are you to think that just because someone leaves the Cof$ that "the brainwashing disappears the minute it hits home?" What does that even mean? I have been "out" for quite a while now (measured in years, not days or weeks) and I still to this day have nightmares of my life in the cult, the consequences of not following what Hubbard says, fear of their retaliation for me even being on ESMB and being found out about, etc. Not to mention the Scilon vocabulary that I am still having to get out of my thinking, the instilled thought patterns which Hubbard's writings groove in to how you look at the world, etc.

None of this turns off overnight. The lines are very blurred as to what is real and what has been drummed into you through the endless indoctrinations. Especially the "us versus them" mentality that all Scilons have, how they are "better" than the "wogs," how much freer and aware, etc. It took me months after leaving to get myself used to the idea that maybe, just maybe, there was value in other people and their opinions. That maybe there's more than one way to look at the world. That maybe there really is a God. That maybe I could actually talk and think outside the bounds of Sci-speak.

And just so you know, there are people, far too many, who have been declared and have interiorized completely into that condition, self-flagellated themselves for it and right now walk around thinking they are completely worthless. You don't, and won't, hear from them on this board because they truly do feel that they are the bad guys and that it would be "disloyal" to the Cof$ to speak derisively of their situation. Those are the people who can't break out of the brainwashing. They did drink the Kool Aid, and they are drowning in it still.

I'd think that anyone who has been on this board for a while (and I've only just been here for a small while) would have read enough horror stories from ex-Scilons to know what I'm saying above. The brainwashing is powerful and it is deep and it is lasting. It's got very little to do with faith and a lot to do with some pretty workable thought control techniques that Hubbard spent decades working over. That's my two cents.
 

kate8024

-deleted-
You seem to be confusing the fact that Scientology is a BUSINESS that is hiding behind a criminal cult that is pretending to be a religion.

If one simply separates the RELIGION part from the BUSINESS (money) part, that solves the whole problem.

Let Scientology be a religion. Let them hold their sunday "services" and make "donations".

But the moment there is a PRICELIST FOR SERVICES, that part belongs in the business section, taxed and regulated like any other business.

Don't ya see, that's where the confusion comes into it.

I mentioned in another thread that I think a lot of the confusion here comes in because people who are trying to say "the church of scientology should not be considered a religious organization for legal or tax purposes" simply say "scientology is not a religion".

There are people who separate the practice of scientology from the organization, or at least see that people could potentially do that and when people say "scientology is not a religion" counter with the opinion that it is - because they are thinking beyond the organization and can imagine a situation where people could do exactly what you prescribe.
 
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