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Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by mockingbird, Dec 23, 2015.

  1. Xenu Xenu Xenu

    Xenu Xenu Xenu Patron Meritorious

  2. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    THANK YOU SO MUCH for posting this.

    All my life, people have been rejecting me -- treating me as an outcast, and I never, ever knew why.

    One lady living in my neighborhood wrote a scathing letter (to a mutual friend) complaining that I was an emotionless monster -- as if I spend my evenings catching and eating small animals and children. Anybody who really knows me know I am kind and helpful nearly all of the time. (We can all be provoked, of course.)

    I do pride myself on controlling my emotions, and not overly reacting to stress. LRH said one should stay away from HE&R (Human Emotion and Reaction) in their conversations. I now realize that made me look like Jaws from the 007 movies.

    So now I know what to do, however counterproductive or illogical. I will simply "lose it" once in a while, and have a tantrum. If that's what it takes to be welcomed into human society, that's what I will do.

  3. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    LRH got it wrong and his tech got many people To avoid emotions and thus dissociated which of course was convenient to ensure people would disconnect from their emotional alert system about abuses.

    Emotions are a normal component of human beings and are a normal reaction from hormonal and nervous system, especially when there are dangers, agressions, grief etc... Emotions are there to alert, make us react ( fight, fly, freeze)

    For example: When one witness abuses and feels in danger , caught in an abusive cult, those emotions of fear, and perhaps angryness, will arise and will provide the necessary adrenalin and cortisol to get the strength to escape.

    Those who suppress those emotions and wrongly identified it like LRH wanted as HE&R, (like something bad)..didn't left and some became dehumanized zombie slaves as seen at Flag compound.
    For example the many Scieno parents who allowed their kids to be abused, sexually molested or used for slave labour .
    The only reasons for that could happened was people to be disconnected from their normal human emotions that would make one so angry and disgusted that he would never allow it. Even animals have emotions and they protect their young ones.

    Emotions are not only bad there are also love, compassion, empathy..those, Scientology labels also as wrong and low on the tone scale.

    I have all of these emotions and thus I know I am alive.:cool:
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
  4. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    The more you have of people trying to explain things using Scientology the more you get threads like this.

    Hubbard used real life situations to get you to listen and then he fed you some made up bullshit to explain why that happens.

    We now have people who explain someone having a temper tantrum SJW style as a ser-fac. Two people who are studying Scientology will watch the SJW and then turn to each other with knowing looks because they know it's a ser-fac in play and think they know things about life that no one else knows.

    The truth is Hubbard gave you a word that explained a situation that you will encounter in life as a mental image picture of a time when someone was hurt and got sympathy for it and now they use it to make other people wrong.

    Before Hubbard came along it was called a temper tantrum brought on by the fact that the one having it doesn't know how to deal with life so they have a fit and kick and scream to get their way.

    Hubbard ties it to a mental image picture and gives it a new name and now you have people thinking they know something they didn't know before and Hubbard was a genius and saw something no one else figured out.

    He sold you a new word and an explanation that you couldn't prove if you wanted to because he was a fiction writer.
    Churchill, Enthetan and Bill like this.
  5. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

  6. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    When reading DMSMH I ridged on Ron's analysis of emotion believing in an upper octave to emotion which does appear in the expanded tone scale.

    "Love", sweetheart is in fact posted in the COHE in the emotion column quite correctly at 4.0. Ron at times wrote in favor of compassion though I don't off-hand recall him using the word specifically and empathy I recall as getting short shrift.

    Personally, as I very highly value such things I kept my own counsel and my training enabled me to develop the fortitude they require.

    Conflict in CoS about these things develops primarily in two ways. In the first there is there very real war against the debilitating and lethal depradations of psychiatry and it's masters which is one thing and of course the other is the $$$$$$$$$$ stat pressure which will hoover a child's college fund in a heartbeat or grab the cash which would have put presents beneath their Xmas tree
  7. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Scientology has a lot of twisted interpretations of emotions from Ron Hubbard.

    Love And Admiration In Scientology
    "A thing which is loved has to be trapped and caged, and a thing which is admired is a thing which you would like to see free."

    Lecture The Uses And Future Of Scientology Ron Hubbard (3 October 1953) Ron Hubbard
    For fun take love here to mean trap and admire to mean set free. Then reexamine these Scientology references.

    "To love is the road to strength. To love in spite of all is the secret of greatness. And may very well be the greatest secret in this universe."

    "Seeking to achieve any single desirable quality in life is a noble thing. The one most difficult—and most necessary—to achieve is to love one’s fellows despite all invitations to do otherwise."
    Article What Is Greatness ? Ron Hubbard

    "Don’t desire to be liked or admired."
    Code of Honor Ron Hubbard

    But the most valued point is admiration, and admiration is so strong its absence alone permits persistence. The Factors Ron Hubbard

    He said more in this lecture:

    "Admiration betokens in itself a kind of respect It borders on liking, admiring – it’s a much, much better word than love. Love all too often is a compulsive passion which devours the very young, and they go and starve to death and blow their brains out and pine and sigh and learn ridiculous dances. And this is love. They don’t even see the person to whom they have attached their sentiment They don’t even know that person is there. They’re "in love!" Admiration, a heavy level of admiration, betokens a sort of respect If you really admired somebody – if you really admired somebody, you’d have to have some understanding of existence and some understanding of him or her. And believe me, it would have a lot more pleasantness and a lot more duration than this thing called "love."

    Lecture The Uses And Future Of Scientology Ron Hubbard (3 October 1953) Ron Hubbard

    His definition of love actually fits narcissistic idealization. It is a kind of abuse of treating a person as a projection of a narcissist's desires. The narcissist doesn't recognize the other person at all and has to control them. It's the parent that forces a child to look perfect, act perfect and act as a tool to show the world the narcissist is wonderful. It is the child forced to sing or dance or be a perfect piano player with no regard for the child's happiness or desires.
    Hubbard was trapped by the unrealistic expectations his aunts and grandfather had. It was a kind of slavery for him. He learned that is how you control others, and practiced it his entire adult life. His admiration is actually allowing a person to have rights and be accepted as a genuine individual with rights.

    In his game he deserved all the admiration and everyone else deserved love. Because that was the relational system he grew up in.

    Daniel Shaw calls this system traumatic narcissism and sees it as going across generations and existing in cults.

    Regarding Hubbard's tone scale it actually represents his views on love and controlling other people.

    In the model of him as a malignant narcissist, Daniel Shaw would be even more exact and say traumatic narcissist, he would see being unable to control others and being controlled as total failure (-40) serenity of beingness (40) as controlling others entirely successfully with no limits while escaping his inner self by making reality bend to fit his delusions and thinking this would cure the ravenous hunger within while he placed sympathy(.9) below covert hostility(1.1) and fear (1.0) as a victim of traumatic narcissism hates both their abuser AND deeply hates themself for trusting and loving their abuser. They unfortunately feel that even if the abuse is outside their control that their trusting and loving their abuser is within their control and an evil act of betrayal of themselves by themselves.

    He said to never seek to be liked or admired. He felt he made himself vulnerable to being idealized and degraded by trusting and caring for others. He vowed to never make that mistake again. He couldn't form healthy attachments because his experience was betrayal by being treated as godlike or worthless. He had no middle ground.

    He said other remarks against families in particular.
    This is an excerpt from a taped conversation with Ron Hubbard in 1974 and his quotes affected very strongly. “The GE is a family man; the GE is lost without a family. It’s very strange, but Homo sap i.e. a family unit. The GE is built on that basis. It’s fascinating, fascinating. It’s not important to know it but a lot of your urges toward families and so forth are not thetan urges at all, they’re the GE. The GE can’t survive at all without a family unit. He’s just as dead as a mackerel if he isn’t a family unit, whereas your thetan is just dead as a mackerel if he gets too mixed up in family units.

    You can’t talk to GEs; they’re kind of psycho. And by the way, you can fall into this dreadful trap with a GE. You see, he uses the MEST universe with which to build. He’s gotten very, very bad off and he has to use MEST materials all the time.

    So, you get this situation here with the GE, and your GE is busy: build, build, build, build, and build. And, of course he’s got to have a family to build with.

    You get this terrific family thirst. And you get your GE surviving best and being loused up the most because of inter-family relationships. And your thetan, by the way, can much more easily go into a group. Families are not good groups; they’re bad groups.”

    GE is the Genetic Entity. The Scientology Tech Dictionary defines it this way: 1. That beingness not dissimilar to the thetan which has carried forward and developed the body from its earliest moments along the evolutionary line on earth and which, through experience, necessity and natural selection, has employed the counter-efforts of the environment to fashion an organism of the type best fitted for survival, limited only by the abilities of the genetic entity.The goal of the genetic entity is survival on a much grosser plane of materiality.

    2. Formerly referred to as the somatic mind. It has no real personality; it is not the “I” of the body. This is the “mind” of an animal, a dog or a cat or a cow.

    3. That entity which is carried along through time, that is making the body through the time stream, through the action of sex and so forth. End quote

    Hubbard's love is really slavery. He wanted everyone to experience his love. His admiration is freedom and he reserved it only for himself.
    Remember his two rules for happy living ?

    “1. Be able to experience anything.

    “2. Cause only those things which others are able to experience easily.” Ron Hubbard
    Those are rules for obedient slaves, not free people. Hubbard wanted slaves who had no idea that they were enslaved.
    Clay Pigeon likes this.
  8. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Here is an excerpt from an essay at Mike Rinder's blog by Brian Thomas Lambert.

    If I had psychological and spiritual altitude over you, I’d be able to mold your mind, value system, behavior and world view in whatever way I wish. As soon as I can establish unquestioning trust in you, towards me – I can create in you, whatever type of personality I want you to be.

    Then I can get you, with “self determination”, to live the applied philosophy that I imprint in your mind… and you’d think you were acting independently and free, but in fact you would simply be applying the thoughts I caused you to agree with. Thoughts precede actions and behavior. Thoughts regulate behavior. Behavior – action, is the real world expression and manifestation of ideas. The thoughts learned on this part of the Tone Scale are diabolical, thus can lead to diabolical actions.

    One of the devices that Hubbard used for this purpose – of teaching ideas – were his ubiquitous scales. Hubbard’s scales give the deceptive impression of science, research, intelligence, analysis and are meant to be instructive; an applied philosophy as he says.
    Hubbard’s scales are meant to inform and regulate behavior, provide reasons to judge others according to Hubbard’s psychology, and give the auditor a reference in evaluating the pc’s emotional state.

    They are a successively increasing numerical value assigned to human values and states of being. Scales are interpreted, by the Scientologist, to be a mathematically accurate standard of human evaluation.

    It is my opinion that a particular section of Hubbard’s Emotional Tone Scale is one of the key doctrines that educates the decency out of people and replaces it with a mean nasty brute. The malignant personality of Hubbard, through agreeing to this section, gets transferred to the dedicated GO-OSA, SP fighting, family destroying, dildo mailing, dumpster diving, illegal phone tapping, black ops thug Scientologist.

    Here’s how I think those traits of Hubbard’s gets transferred: below I give a representation of 4 Emotional Tone Scale numerical value measurements.
    1.9 Hostility
    1.4 Hatred
    1.2 No Sympathy
    0.9 Sympathy
    This scale teaches that having sympathy is lower than hate or hostility. There is no other way to interpret this – none!

    Hubbard choosing to put these human qualities in this numerical relationship, informs the student Scientologist that “maybe sympathy is not as good as I thought. It’s lower on the Tone Scale so somehow, through his “wisdom” and “research”, Ron must have found something in it to justify him putting it in a lower position than hate and hostility.”

    He unequivocally says it right here: hate is a higher emotional tone, thus more survival, as each successive higher tone is touted by Hubbard as reflecting increased survival skills. Eg – a cheerful man will get on in life better than a fearful man. That relation makes sense.
    But if you contemplate the sympathy – hate relation, it does not make sense.
    Something is not right. Something is VERY not right.

    How can hating and being hostile ever be a better, more survival expression than feeling for other people?

    How can hating or hostility be better than sympathizing with the suffering of others and thereby have a better handle on how to really heal and really help by sharing sympathetic space with another human being?

    Right here, right in this numerical measurement is a mirror into Hubbard’s malignancy.
    Proof of that malignancy?

    Just look at a few of the now recorded facts of his life:
    1 – Pistol whipped Sara (second wife)
    2 – Tortured Sara
    3 – Kidnapped his own kid and threaten to kill her
    4 – Hubbard’s reaction to the death of his son was concern for his PR (that’s the reaction of a sociopath)
    5 – Tosses his loyal and faithful wife in the dirt for being caught for illegal activities he instructed her to do
    6 – Tells David Miscavige to punch and spit on people
    7 – Teaches that ruthlessness is a desirable leadership skill

    All of the above, Hubbard actually did. He had zero sympathy for those he harmed. He exhibited incredible hostility and hatred. That hostility and hate became the MO for the institutions of GO/OSA black – ops para military operations.
    He also said that “love and understanding” was a Marcab conspiracy on the original OT 8. Think about that. In his deluded madness he assigns that part of the tone scale that has love and understanding, an essential part of sympathy, as coming from evil space aliens.
    Ron was one sick hombre!

    That’s Hubbard in a nutshell. The guy’s heart was shut down tight. He felt hating was higher than sympathy. He demonstrated lack of feeling for others and a predisposition to harming people. This numerical relation is Hubbard’s revelation of criminal madness.
    Thus his students can be just like him when they agree with his infallibility and internalize these ideas. Disconnection, attack the attacker, ruin utterly, always settle the score, destroy their jobs, noisy investigation to freak people, mothers and fathers, children and families can be destroyed for the “greater good”.

    It’s all there in this one little numerical relation. The Emotional Tone Scale is a look into the psychologically disturbed mind of L Ron Hubbard.

    This trait was imparted to his students because of the altitude we gave him. HIS lack of feeling becomes the black ops thug, GO/OSA lack of conscience and lack of feeling for the suffering of others. The suffering they actually cause by their psy-ops, para military operations.
    Below is the first entry definition, in the American Heritage dictionary online of hate and sympathy. These are the true definitions of these words. The numerical placement of hate as a higher emotion is a revelatory look into Hubbard’s sociopathy.
    I include Ron’s Tone Scale numerical valuation to each definition.
    1.4 – hate (hāt)
    v. hat•ed, hat•ing, hates

    1. a.To feel hostility or animosity toward.
    b. To detest.
    2. To feel dislike or distaste for: hates washing dishes.
    1. Intense animosity or dislike; hatred.
    2. An object of detestation or hatred.

    0.9 sym•pa•thy (sĭm′pə‑thē)
    n. pl. sym•pa•thies
    1. a. A relationship or an affinity between people or things in which whatever affects one correspondingly affects the other.
    b. Mutual understanding or affection arising from this relationship or affinity.
    2. a. The act or power of sharing the feelings of another.
    b. A feeling or an expression of pity or sorrow for the distress of another; compassion or commiseration. Often used in the plural.See Synonyms at pity.
    3. Harmonious agreement; accord: He is in sympathy with their beliefs.
    4. A feeling of loyalty; allegiance. Often used in the plural: His sympathies lie with his family.

    How in God’s name didn’t we see this?
    A criminal psychologist or psychiatrist could write a thesis on this simple Tone Scale revelation. This is an education tool designed by a person who can’t feel deeply with an occluded conscience.

    He caused lives to be ruined and cared not a whit. LRH lost no sleep harming people.
    This is Ron’s sociopathic mindset hidden in plain sight in the tone scale. It is also a doctrine that can transfer this moral distortion to the unwitting Scientologist through word clearing and study tech.

    If feeling for your pain is low toned, then it’s a piece of cake to cause you harm. This is the view of a sociopath or psychopath.

    I welcome disagreements or other views.
    Thank you Mike.

    Warm Regards,
  9. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron


    If yer lookin' or sympathy you can find it i the dictionary somewhere between shit and syphylis.

    The cited article is a textbook example of sophistry
  10. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Explain how ?
  11. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Here is a comment from George White

    There is a famous passage in Milton’s Paradise Lost where Lucifer has a brief moment of regret for having started a rebellious group war with God in heaven. But Lucifer rejects a return to God. The only difference I see with Hubbard is that he probably never had a moment of regret for destroying so many good lives. So I guess we can conclude that Hubbard’s “Tone Scale” was lower than Lucifer’s.
  12. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    You are referred to your own essay on your hypnosis thread.
  13. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't know as Hubbard destroyed many good lives.

    There might be some truth in the allegation but even at that the good his work generated BY FAR AND IMMENSELY outweighs any harm generated by it's CORRECT application and overwhelmingly any harm generated by CoS has been from INCORRECT application.

    You want to look for some harm?

    How bout TENS OF THOUSANDS of our fellows with dime store icepicks tucked into their frontal lobes?
  14. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hubbard co-opted "his" tone scale from this:

  15. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Bruce Ploetz says
    December 18, 2018 at 3:10 pm

    Brian, there is an even more egregious fault in the Expanded Tone Scale. Up at the very top he placed “Tone 40 Serenity of Beingness”. Nicely though meaninglessly named, in practice Tone 40 is the emotional tone level of complete ruthless boot-on-your-face Orwellian authoritarian control.

    The Tone scale is supposed to be a scale of degree of affinity, also described as consideration of distance. So at the bottom, Total Failure, you are not even in communications range of anyone else. And at the top you are so close that there is literally no distance between you and the other. Your thoughts are their thoughts. Your will is their command. The other is supposed to obey without thinking, feeling compelled to comply without even knowing why.

    This is what is practiced in the nicely named “Upper Indoctrination Training Routines”. You are supposed to achieve Tone 40 control on another. The famous “shouting at an ashtray” step is supposed to help the person insert his intentions into an object as a gradient towards forcing his intentions on another person.

    You have to be a truly dedicated sociopath to believe that the highest emotional state possible is the state where the other person’s will is completely submerged and your will is supreme.
    Evidence is pretty good that Hubbard stole the idea of the Tone Scale from Mathison, and of course the expanded tone scale owes more to Aleister Crowley than it does to any form of actual research. Still, as a window into Hubbard’s soul it works pretty well.
  16. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Advanced Prodceures and Axioms page 10.
    “THE ELEVENTH ACT consists of running out ALL sympathy on everyone and anyone in this lifetime, every dynamic. This is done by running the sympathy as a lock for its duration over and over until the sympathy is erased. This includes sympathy for self, for every part of the body, for children, for sexual partners, for each
    parent, for every member of the family, for every ally, or every friend, for every group, organization, state or country, for Man in general, for matter, for energy, for space, for time, for trees and any vegetable life, for bacteria, for cells including sperm, for dogs, cats, horses, cattle, pigs, sheep, game birds, game animals, for souls, spirits, idols, clairvoyants, saints, for the Supreme being.”
    The book capitalizes the word ALL, I did not.
    Page 25
    “Sympathy must be taken wholly off the case.”
    (This is in italics.)
  17. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron


    You are an energetic poster!

    Just to comment on one point...

    I didn't know why but something about a particle of admiration being the most valuable particle seemed amiss when I first read it quite early in my study of Hubbard's work

    Years later I realized that's just what Lucifer would say
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron


    One might expect such an auditing program likely to induce the sadistic 1.2 tone of No Sympathy.