OT VII Cause Over Life!

Feral

Rogue male
QUOTE=Megalomaniac;185000]Hi Feral, I recently realized that this sort of testimony from ex-Scientologists makes me "believe in" the tech far more than wins from Scientologists. Reason is, there is no pressure to only say good things. Since you can just speak naturally, it seems far more credible.

What? Was I promoting the tech?.... Ok we can agree that there are some benefits, but at the price, and I don't just mean monetary, it is not worth the trouble.

Really? That is OT. :ohmy: How much ARC with a person do you need to clean up his W/H's "remotely"? I don't know if that's a fair question. I never got very far at all on the Bridge. But I noticed a phenomena where I seemed to know what someone else was thinking, but only if we had super high affinity.

I have experienced that in life too when I was real fond of some one. This does not require so much affinity....the meter helps.

This should NOT miss any WHs on people as they tend to get 'cleared' as it occurs....OK? The ability any OT has to see your thoughts is very patchy at best, many non scios have an equal or better natural ability.
 

Rae

Patron with Honors
sure..cause over life..absolutely

My take on it? After 13 yrs on OTVll, I would have to say that I ABSOLUTLEY was Cause over Life when I completed..shoot..I had just spent 13 yrs of my life devoting myself towards one dedicated driving goal of completing...over 30 trips to Flag , some 35 Sec checks:thumbsup: ..spending hundreds of thousands of dollars that to this day I have no idea how I created :confused2: ..doing every new thing that came down the pike..always driving driving towards the goal..if that isn't cause over life..I have no idea what would be..and it was fabulous! It lasted all of about 2 weeks too! Enough to get me to the ship, get me through a (yet another) 72 question Sec Check..no problem..and into the OTVlll courseroom..where Cause over Life promptly ended..and 5 years of hell promptly began..

Cause over Life..heck..It wasn't until I left Scientology that I was able to fully rehab that ability!:hattip:
 

Carmel

Crusader
Now there's a question!

To me it's an ambiguous statement that can mean many things and undoubtedly does to many individuals.

This ambiguity serves the CofS VERY well for promotional purposes.

It could mean;
Cause over all 8 Dynamics and hence, your own life as it is being lived by you.
Cause over life as in other life-forms, the livingness that inhabits various body-forms and are separate spiritual beings.
Cause as all Life; the One-ness, the All, the Universal Self etc etc.

I'm sure that, were we to survey it, we'd find many different understandings of what it means.

Here's my take on it; Absolutes are probably unobtainable in the Physical Universe.

Am I Cause Over Life? Most of the time, particularly when I remember to be. :)

Do I wish to be disabused of this notion? Nope! :)

Given who and what you are (including who and what you were before scn) I can totally accept what you have said here. However, I don't know that many others would be or are in your boat (especially when it comes to those who have been doing OT VII of late).

You said that if we surveyed the meaning of "cause over life", we'd have many different understandings of what it meant - we sure would!

Rightly or wrongly, my concept of that meant:
- having the power to control one's postulates (both negative and positive)
- being able to influence/help others no matter where they sat
- never being adversely affected or stopped or hindered by case
- having the ability to blast through any and all barriers no matter how big
- having a bounce back factor despite the magnitude of whatever adversity
- being totally pan-determined with total rationality and sanity, despite whatever came one's way
- being totally free of anything and everything that had the power to aberrate
- a high level of humility, humanity, understanding, compassion, care and all the virtues - across the dynamics

Of course this was pie in the sky and quite silly, but that's what I envisioned being an OT VII completion would mean. Besides having hope that this is what it would be, I think it was represented to me that way.

I got more than I ever hoped to gain out of my first year of training, purif, objectives, HRD etc - I had the concept that the OT levels (being way up there and bigger and better), would have to absolutely blow my socks off, at the very least. If I could gain so much from the lower level stuff, and I was only at the beginning, then my God - what on earth was in store? (I've always been a dreamer :duh: ).

I've never negated my wins and gains from my involvement and experiences in scn, and I am very thankful for them - but I am annoyed at the PR scam that I discovered the OT levels to be - in my mind, largely a PR caper that flew, because of gains for the taking at the lower levels. In saying that though, I'm not denying gains available and made on OT levels, in years gone past.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Blame me why dontchya? :giggle:

I don't know that I posted it - I think we just spoke about it (can't recall exactly).

What I can recall is a whole bunch of surveys being done in '80 or '81. The one's like "what would best describe......." etc, then you had options "desirable"/"not desirable" etc. Those options included "cause over life", "cause over others" etc, etc.

So, I was putting 2 and 2 together and maybe getting 5 - I don't know. I do know though, that there were bulk surveys done before we got the "new" bridge around '81. OT VII came out before then, but I don't know what the stated EP was for that, at that earlier time.

Whatever the case, the stated EP's to many of us, are a load of PR BS. In the early days, I believed them - it took me a long time to realize that they were a load of crap, and that we had been well and truly suckered! Surveyed or not, those EP's are just another example of 'Church' PR.
This ticks my memory.. I've seen these surveys, or filled out one, or was aware that they were done... Maybe even tabulating 'em for at report 'uplines'.. Heh.. I'd like that total recall we were promised!

In fact.. I'd be surprized if the PR hype for the OT levels weren't surveyed.. That's standard PR/Marketing tech.. And 'finding out what's needed and wanted' is too.

As for 'Cause over Life'.. That always bothered me... I've seen psychopathic murderers in literature and movies entertaining this idea often enough.. The idea that 'killing' makes you a 'real man' or even a 'god'...

I recall a 'killer' from some movie or other, explaining the thrill of killing: "Makes you feel like a god! - Seeing life leave their eyes!"

Next I recall all those hints from Hubbard about killing with spiritual powers.

So that desciption of 'EP' don't really work for me...

:nervous:
 
About surveys.

I worked in Div 2 once and marketing surveys were done to find out what "buttons" to press to make people buy services.
Example. Ask people what they think it would be like to be free of their "bank." A large number say something like:
"It would be so cool because then I would be able to be whatever I want to be".

So that would be used in the advertising. "Go Clear and be whatever you want to be."
This, BTW was very early 80's, but was perhaps done earlier.
The grade chart was already "set" of course, but NOTS was a new addition to the grade chart trip. So the developing awareness of marketing "tech" was used while nots was still being tinkered around with. Marketing surveys were then not just used to make the stated EP look desirable but to actually create the EP statement or at least, the stated aim of the rundown. A much more direct use of survey data to sort of define the product.

Now all of this is from memory and I don't claim that it is what Lwrong and others actually did because I was not at Flag or where-ever those things happened. But as a Div 2 full time staffer, having to be hatted on selling and marketing policy, and also being aware of the development of Ls, the initial failures, etc, what I have said is certainly how it looked to me.
It could pre-date the 80's and "Old" OT level stated aims may have also had this Product-defined-by marketing-surveys method too.
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Now there's a question!

To me it's an ambiguous statement that can mean many things and undoubtedly does to many individuals.

This ambiguity serves the CofS VERY well for promotional purposes.

It could mean;
Cause over all 8 Dynamics and hence, your own life as it is being lived by you.
Cause over life as in other life-forms, the livingness that inhabits various body-forms and are separate spiritual beings.
Cause as all Life; the One-ness, the All, the Universal Self etc etc.

I'm sure that, were we to survey it, we'd find many different understandings of what it means.

Here's my take on it; Absolutes are probably unobtainable in the Physical Universe.

Am I Cause Over Life? Most of the time, particularly when I remember to be. :)

Do I wish to be disabused of this notion? Nope! :)

Love this post. I select #2 as the best description of OT7. That's the one that applies for me.

CHLNG
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Right now, just on casual inspection of the old memory-bank; I personally know of 5 who are out openly, 3 who are out but under the radar, and a couple who are out by way of dropping their bodies.

This is just for my geographical area, the actual numbers for ANZO will be MUCH higher.

A more telling statistic is the large number of Vlls who are simply "off the Level" currently. I think this is a runway step to "out".

Someone told me that there are at least 14 OT VIIs posting here on ESMB.
 

Mrs Pattycake

Patron with Honors
my take as a recent OT VII comp

I attested to OTVII in October 2007, after 12 years on the level and 20+ years in Scientology.

At that stage I would never of guessed that less than a year later I would no longer be a Scientologist !

The EP of OTVII is a very technical EP that occurs in session whilst auditing a very specific thing. So you, as a solo auditor are looking for the correct answers (or no answers in this case ) and very specific meter phenomena whilst checking very specific questions. There is no required cog from you, the auditor, about being cause etc.

So the actual EP, and that which you attest to in Qual really has has nothing to do with the Cause Over Life statement which is touted as the EP of OTVII. Cause Over Life is not even mentioned any where in any of the confidential data on the OTVI course !

At the time I attested, my take on OTVII was that it would mean I was cause over my life – meaning that I was able to take full responsibility for everything in my universe . Obviously I made the mental leap that this would include having finally and completely handled any hidden influences caused by other entities. So to me, it meant that my life was pretty well on track across my dynamics.

I saw many OTVI's trying to comp and not succeeding because they had outpoints on one or more dynamics. This occurred whilst they were on the EP check – so obviously they had demonstrated the technical EP in a look in session but during the EP check either more hidden influences were found or their considerations about their life were coming up. I personally know that anyone with any type of medical condition had to have it fixed or under complete control, anyone with family members that were not “handled” on Scientology had to handle them, anyone with any outpointy finance sit had to fix it and anyone with any considerations about any aspect of their life had to either fix it or get rid of the considerations ( these of course had to align to the Scientology view of the world)

There have been many good comments and questions on this thread, and I found myself reviewing my OTVII experience in order to answer them. This has been quite therapeutic for me and so I started to write in more detail about my experience with OTVII . As this is too long to add to this thread - I will shortly create a new thread in which you can share my OTVII “decade” and solve the baffling mystery of why the [email protected]#k did I continue for so long when obviously things were going so pear-shaped ! And how did I finally manage to attest to the EP of OTVII ???
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
quote from Mrs Pattycake
As this is too long to add to this thread - I will shortly create a new thread in which you can share my OTVII “decade” and solve the baffling mystery of why the [email protected]#k did I continue for so long when obviously things were going so pear-shaped ! And how did I finally manage to attest to the EP of OTVII ???

:drama: Am awaiting this Mrs P :drama:
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
May I ask if you have experienced the "cells in the mind of god" reality and "where" it occurred on the bridge? From this experience comes my understanding of how things are put together. This would include the impossiblity of acquiring complete cause over oneself in this universe. When we were cause we immediately abrogated the position to play the game and I doubt that will change with the percentage now at play. However that is logic, not knowing.
SCN to me is playing the game not understanding the game. They are two completely different things. The aspect of requiring anyone else's ideas into one's own defeats the purpose, for example. One is acquiring a cubbyhole in place of understanding. Understanding never stops, either. We are in this till the place falls apart. Pitch the damn ball.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
I attested to OTVII in October 2007, after 12 years on the level and 20+ years in Scientology.

At that stage I would never of guessed that less than a year later I would no longer be a Scientologist !

The EP of OTVII is a very technical EP that occurs in session whilst auditing a very specific thing. So you, as a solo auditor are looking for the correct answers (or no answers in this case ) and very specific meter phenomena whilst checking very specific questions. There is no required cog from you, the auditor, about being cause etc.

So the actual EP, and that which you attest to in Qual really has has nothing to do with the Cause Over Life statement which is touted as the EP of OTVII. Cause Over Life is not even mentioned any where in any of the confidential data on the OTVI course !

At the time I attested, my take on OTVII was that it would mean I was cause over my life – meaning that I was able to take full responsibility for everything in my universe . Obviously I made the mental leap that this would include having finally and completely handled any hidden influences caused by other entities. So to me, it meant that my life was pretty well on track across my dynamics.

I saw many OTVI's trying to comp and not succeeding because they had outpoints on one or more dynamics. This occurred whilst they were on the EP check – so obviously they had demonstrated the technical EP in a look in session but during the EP check either more hidden influences were found or their considerations about their life were coming up. I personally know that anyone with any type of medical condition had to have it fixed or under complete control, anyone with family members that were not “handled” on Scientology had to handle them, anyone with any outpointy finance sit had to fix it and anyone with any considerations about any aspect of their life had to either fix it or get rid of the considerations ( these of course had to align to the Scientology view of the world)

There have been many good comments and questions on this thread, and I found myself reviewing my OTVII experience in order to answer them. This has been quite therapeutic for me and so I started to write in more detail about my experience with OTVII . As this is too long to add to this thread - I will shortly create a new thread in which you can share my OTVII “decade” and solve the baffling mystery of why the [email protected]#k did I continue for so long when obviously things were going so pear-shaped ! And how did I finally manage to attest to the EP of OTVII ???

Well, you seem to be cause over Scientology right now, and that is part of being cause over life.

Very well done!

.
 

Been Done Had

Patron with Honors
I attested to OTVII in October 2007, after 12 years on the level and 20+ years in Scientology.

At that stage I would never of guessed that less than a year later I would no longer be a Scientologist !

The EP of OTVII is a very technical EP that occurs in session whilst auditing a very specific thing. So you, as a solo auditor are looking for the correct answers (or no answers in this case ) and very specific meter phenomena whilst checking very specific questions. There is no required cog from you, the auditor, about being cause etc.

So the actual EP, and that which you attest to in Qual really has has nothing to do with the Cause Over Life statement which is touted as the EP of OTVII. Cause Over Life is not even mentioned any where in any of the confidential data on the OTVI course !

At the time I attested, my take on OTVII was that it would mean I was cause over my life – meaning that I was able to take full responsibility for everything in my universe . Obviously I made the mental leap that this would include having finally and completely handled any hidden influences caused by other entities. So to me, it meant that my life was pretty well on track across my dynamics.

I saw many OTVI's trying to comp and not succeeding because they had outpoints on one or more dynamics. This occurred whilst they were on the EP check – so obviously they had demonstrated the technical EP in a look in session but during the EP check either more hidden influences were found or their considerations about their life were coming up. I personally know that anyone with any type of medical condition had to have it fixed or under complete control, anyone with family members that were not “handled” on Scientology had to handle them, anyone with any outpointy finance sit had to fix it and anyone with any considerations about any aspect of their life had to either fix it or get rid of the considerations ( these of course had to align to the Scientology view of the world)

There have been many good comments and questions on this thread, and I found myself reviewing my OTVII experience in order to answer them. This has been quite therapeutic for me and so I started to write in more detail about my experience with OTVII . As this is too long to add to this thread - I will shortly create a new thread in which you can share my OTVII “decade” and solve the baffling mystery of why the [email protected]#k did I continue for so long when obviously things were going so pear-shaped ! And how did I finally manage to attest to the EP of OTVII ???

Great post and looking forward to more insights!:)

At the very least you can take away, from reaching the top of the bridge, that it is still a very exclusive club. To be able to endure the hardships and press forward speaks to your character and the character of anyone who completes the level.

You have my respect and it's more than the residual awe one has while on-lines for the 7s and 8s. So again, congratulations on hanging in there.

And I had no idea seeming arbitraries were part of the leve; unhandled finances, antago relatives and body issues. Amazing. But I supposed if one is cause, none of these conditions could be.
 
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Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Thanks for the info, Mrs P, that aligns perfectly.

Cause Over Life is promoted as a State Attained for the Level in CofS PR and is a descriptive phrase arrived at by survey rather than empirical data.

The CofS is well versed in the Hubbard method of promote the hell out of it and THEN work out how you're going to deliver it. Bring delivery up to match the promotion etc. (some here will recall the exact reference).

I await your full story in grim anticipation! :yes:
 

Carmel

Crusader
<snip>
There have been many good comments and questions on this thread, and I found myself reviewing my OTVII experience in order to answer them. This has been quite therapeutic for me and so I started to write in more detail about my experience with OTVII . As this is too long to add to this thread - I will shortly create a new thread in which you can share my OTVII “decade” and solve the baffling mystery of why the [email protected]#k did I continue for so long when obviously things were going so pear-shaped ! And how did I finally manage to attest to the EP of OTVII ???

Looking forward to more understanding on this, through your account of it.

You've done well and are doing well despite it all - good on you! :D
 
Your post is very interesting on the requirements to attest to OT 7 , that you have to have things "totally sorted" in regard to family, finances, health condtions etc.

I can't wait to hear read the post you are now working on. I'm sure many of us want a sort of day by day - or month by month story of what goes on while someone is spending all that time doing OT 7.
 

Mrs Pattycake

Patron with Honors
thanks for the encouragement

Thanks everyone for your encouragement to post my story - I'll try and get some of it up for you tonight.

Its funny how many things I ended up taking for granted about OTVII that would be fascinating for those who did not make it to this level - but don't worry you did not miss much ! :duh:
 
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