OT VII Cause Over Life!

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks everyone for your encouragement to post my story - I'll try and get some of it up for you tonight.

Its funny how many things I ended up taking for granted about OTVII that would be fascinating for those who did not make it to this level - but don't worry you did not miss much ! :duh:

:yes: :clap: :drama:
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
The EP of OTVII is a very technical EP that occurs in session whilst auditing a very specific thing. So you, as a solo auditor are looking for the correct answers (or no answers in this case ) and very specific meter phenomena whilst checking very specific questions. There is no required cog from you, the auditor, about being cause etc.

Details? :)

Paul
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
When I audited NOTS, in 1984 or 1985, the EP for the level was " transparent body". I will say that I had no physical ailments, financial problems, or like that. My problem when I did the level was that on the old OT4, ( I'll have to look up the old OT levels, but I think it was 4) we "ran out" all of our Scientology auditing. So on the first Program steps of NOTS, when asked if a BT/C had been restimmed on ( a lower level), I was at a loss. Then, OT8 wants you to recall all the past lives that you encountered, etc, and it was the same dilemna. What? Mock all that back up again so that I can run it out?
Did any other oldtimers here encounter the same thing on those two levels?

CHLNG
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
I posted the EP as given on Wikileaks in post #17 of this thread:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=7239&page=2

I was curious if there was any more to it.

Paul

A few things, in no specific order. The person always originated something about "everything" getting very quiet. Always something regarding the space getting bigger, and also brighter. The biggie for the attest cycle at Examiner was "transparent body". The person could scan his body and it would appear transparent. It only follows that as the person audits BT/Cs farther and farther out from his body, that his space becomes clearer and clearer . His comm lines to others would clean up also. These are the things that I, and others whom I audited, experienced on the Level. YMMV. Since I have left COS, I have had more cognitions about NOTs. These are totally subjective,and have no basis other than my own perception.

Merry Christmas, Paul. Thank you for all that you do.

CHLNG
 

Veda

Sponsor

Around 1984/85, for a while, as part of my re-investigation of Scientology - from outside the "Church" - I audited a number of people, mainly on Dianetics and Lower Grades actions, with occasional detours to some interesting 1950s procedures, such as running "help" on identities, etc., and also running NOTs type procedure when that "phenomena" came up in session, as a "problem," and the person was interested and able to explore that area.

Even though I was still fairly naive regarding Scientology's "dark side," I knew something was "wrong" with Scientology, and wanted to have another look. I still retained my old (Dianetics/Class 4, now "Class 5") auditing know-how, after a lapse of being away from the "Church" for several years, and did the C/Sing for those I audited - for the most part staying with the conventional program of Objectives, ARC S/W, Dianetics, Lower Grades, etc.

I was in touch with a break away "Mission" which delivered all Scientology auditing services, and which consisted largely of people doing their "upper levels" and NOTS. I did consult them, particularly the "old timers," from time to time, but only used their C/S on one occasion, when a particular "PC," who I had run on a 1958-era help/identity procedure had such a dramatic positive result, that I felt some sort of major acknowledgement, and "check" (outside of my own) seemed appropriate. The C/S was accustomed to "Dianetic Clears," which, in comparison, IMO, were a rather limp-wristed version of "Clear," in contrast to what I had stumbled upon while exploring the procedures that led to "GPM" running of the early 1960s. Unlike those running "GPMs," who, from my observation, tended to fall into near endless lint-picking complexities, I ended off, after the initial "big win" and that was that. All these years later, the person is still doing well, having - at my advice - avoided the Hubbardian labyrinth.

My impression of the "upper level" people at this Mission was pretty much the same as my years-earlier impression of other "upper level" Scientologists: At best they were getting "states of mind," and fragile states of mind at that, being just as vulnerable to upsets in life as most any "ordinary" person. Additionally, they were subject to specialized upsets that only Scientologists can have, such as feeling panicked when their needle wasn't floating at the examiner, or their TA was high at the start of a solo session.

It became apparent to me that many of these folks were engaged in a lengthy program that insisted that they "fix something that isn't broken" in the first place. It was an unnecessary action.

Those that seemed to being doing well had been doing well priorly, and their time on NOTs was brief. Usually someone would be happy to be done with the NOTs program, or with any "OT level" program, and that delight in being done with it (meaning no longer having to endure doing the particular level, which usually addressed a problem they didn't have in the fist place) was taken as a "win," when, in fact, more realistically, it was a sense of relief at no longer having to daily re-visit L. Ron Hubbard's bleak inner-world - or the bleak inner world he had insisted other's had as a "problem" to be corrected per his instructions.

As far as NOTs goes, I would break down the action in two parts: One was the know-how (or familiarity) of addressing a (seeming) "BT" with two way communication. This involved being an auditor to the "BT," although, in BT-addressing upper levels, this often consists of little more than reading-off Hubbardian significance (Inc. 1, Inc. 2) and tossing it at a "BT" or "cluster" and having it/them "blow." Or on NOTs, doing the "What are you, who are you," ritual, with accompanying repair lists, etc.

It seemed very sophisticated and serious, but old fashioned "Hello and OK," simple communication (mental 'touch assist'), and "two way comm," "run on an entity," or "pressure point," or whatever, would have done much the same, but more cleanly, IMO.

The other part, aside from the simple skill or familiarity of being an "auditor" for (apparent) entities, energies, bodiless intentions, etc., was the long program of NOTs itself, in which, IMO, for the most part, people spend years addressing a problem which wasn't a problem in the first place.

Personally, I think some of the wisest people I've known have been those who sampled some Scientology auditing (and sometimes some Scientology auditor training), sometimes just a Communications Course, other times, the Student Hat/basic auditor training, and other times making it through the Lower Grades to "Power Processing," and then got the heck out of Scientology, never to return. At one time such people puzzled me, and I thought they were missing out. Now I realize that they were very wise.

In any event, here are two perspectives from two experienced Ex-Scientologists:

The first is self-explanatory:

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=77530&postcount=18

The second is an excerpt from the book, 'Messiah or Madman?', from a chapter titled 'Are you Haunted?', and omits a lengthy presentation of other writings, from Paracelsus, Gurdjieff, Mouni Sadhu, and even Omar Garrison and Thomas Edison. Still the brief except is of some interest. Incidentally, the chapter begins with a quote from an anonymous L.A. Newspaper ad, from the early 1980s, which states simply, "I got into Scientology because I was inhibited. Turns out I was inhabited!"

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/NOTs/origins/corydon-messiah.html
 
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Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
A few things, in no specific order. The person always originated something about "everything" getting very quiet. Always something regarding the space getting bigger, and also brighter. The biggie for the attest cycle at Examiner was "transparent body". The person could scan his body and it would appear transparent. It only follows that as the person audits BT/Cs farther and farther out from his body, that his space becomes clearer and clearer. His comm lines to others would clean up also. These are the things that I, and others whom I audited, experienced on the Level. YMMV. Since I have left COS, I have had more cognitions about NOTs. These are totally subjective,and have no basis other than my own perception.

Merry Christmas, Paul. Thank you for all that you do.

CHLNG

Thanks very much, CHLNG.

It seems to me that for the most part the individual is handling real bits of frozen energy-consciousness (including others' energy), embedded in his/her personal energy field, which unfreeze and effectively disappear on being isolated and addressed with live energy, despite the false significance of independent "thetanness" and more assigned to them by Hubbard and others. I can see how this could be therapeutic, especially absent all the CofS added stress and expense and falsity.

Paul
 
Thanks very much, CHLNG.

It seems to me that for the most part the individual is handling real bits of frozen energy-consciousness (including others' energy), embedded in his/her personal energy field, which unfreeze and effectively disappear on being isolated and addressed with live energy, despite the false significance of independent "thetanness" and more assigned to them by Hubbard and others. I can see how this could be therapeutic, especially absent all the CofS added stress and expense and falsity.

Paul


And why are you so "definite" in labelling this a "false sense of thetaness"? For all we know that is what "thetans" are, "God's Frozen Energy Consciousness". :)


Mark A. Baker
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
And why are you so "definite" in labelling this a "false sense of thetaness"? For all we know that is what "thetans" are, "God's Frozen Energy Consciousness". :)

Mark A. Baker

I spelled it "thetan-ness" deliberately (without the hyphen). I don't like to use Hubbard's term "theta" any more, although I happily use many Scn words and concepts. I could describe the bits of energy-consciousness as "bits of theta" happily enough, but if I want to relate Hubbard's concept of "thetan" to anything outside of Scn I would relate it to the entire many-layered energy body that interpenetrates the human body, the "thumb around the sliver" in History of Man, and not some little bit of life-bearing "wiggle."

Paul
 

Veda

Sponsor
Thanks very much, CHLNG.

It seems to me that for the most part the individual is handling real bits of frozen energy-consciousness (including others' energy), embedded in his/her personal energy field, which unfreeze and effectively disappear on being isolated and addressed with live energy, despite the false significance of independent "thetanness" and more assigned to them by Hubbard and others. I can see how this could be therapeutic, especially absent all the CofS added stress and expense and falsity.

Paul

Thank you for acknowledging CHLNG on this, and for your informative analysis of NOTs, etc.

IMO, the excellent results that CHLNG has obtained from her auditing have more to do with her presence and ability as a counselor, than with any particular technique. She is a rarity and a prize.

Now my 2 cents...

"Public Service Announcement" (for lurkers):

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=77478&postcount=14
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thank you for acknowledging CHLNG on this, and for your informative analysis of NOTs, etc.

IMO, the excellent results that CHLNG has obtained from her auditing have more to do with her presence and ability as a counselor, than with any particular technique. She is a rarity and a prize.

Now my 2 cents...

"Public Service Announcement" (for lurkers):

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=77478&postcount=14

OOhhhh!!!! Baybee!!! You have made my day and probably my whole new year bright, shiny, and happy. Thank you.
Please PM me with your name, where you knew me, and tell me all about yourself. And thanks again.

to Paul. You know a bit about me, too. You did me a much-appreciated kindness while you were in LA.

CHLNG
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
This is a "bump" just to get the thread back on the board. I had to go thru 8 pages and still couldn't find the thread to which I had replied just the day before. How does that work? It's not the first time that a thread that I had replied to dropped out of sight.

CHLNG
 

Div6

Crusader
Whenever a person replies to a thread it moves it to the top of its forum list. Given the "particle flow" of this board, it can be difficult to keep track. I keep a list nearby of the threads I am engaged in.....maybe there is a better way.
 

Feral

Rogue male
You can also press the "my posts" tab fourth from the right under your user name and a page will display of all your posts in date order.
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
well, I know that about the "My Posts" tab. I already know what I have written, I want the other people with whom I am sharing to see the messages so that they can reply to them (or not). Specifically, on this thread, Veda and Paul. O I guess that's where PM enters the picture. I've never been into PMing much, but if that's what it takes, ok.

Chlng
 
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