OT VIII WTF Jesus Christ ! Is it real ?

AnonKat

Crusader
I call upon the wisdom of the ESMB elders. WTF Is this the old OT 8 before the NOTS ? WWP rendered it allready false BTW. mmm let's see.

Any material you have that you can scan and postwould be epic or PM me if you want to stay under the water.


http://www.spaink.net/scientology-stuff/

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/ot8b.html


HCO BULLETIN OF 5 MAY 1980

LIMITED DISTRIBUTION ISSUE I

OT VIII Course Students
OT OT VIII Auditors
OT VIII C/Ses
AO Review Auditors
AO C/Ses
OT VIII Series I

C O N F I D E N T I A L

STUDENT BRIEFING

By the time you read this I will no longer be occupying the body and identity
that you have known as Ron. That identity continues to live in the hearts and
minds of many as well as in on-Source tech and admin centers around the planet,
and will inspire for years to come Scientologists and lovers of truth everywhere.
 
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AnonKat

Crusader
MMMMM some spicy stuff there.:omg:

This is going to be an interesting thread!:drama:

Maybe not WWP concluded it had to be fake

It's fake. I can't *prove* it's fake, but there is no evidence that it is real.

Paul

So Moxon fucked up royaly ?

http://www.spaink.net/fishman/index2.html

Until recently. When Arnaldo Lerma's house was raided by CoS, they took his computer. Under the writ of seizure, they were allowed only to identify files that were copyrighted bij CoS / RTC. A CoS lawyer - Kendrick Moxon, expert attorney and a senior OT - was asked to supervise this, and guess what: he identified OT8 as an RTC copyright and therefore, as a church scripture.

Here is a quote from the court transcripts. Mr. Sullivan (Lerma's lawyer) is speaking and explains to Judge Brinkema which documents Moxon selected as copyright infringements. The Mr. Cooley he is speaking of, is CoS's lawyer for the case, who had earlier in that same session repeated the offical statement that OT8 is a forgery. So, the two CoS lawyers clearly disagree, but Moxon is the one called in as the expert on the copyrights:

page 81

1 what Mr. Cooley represented was a very highly placed
2 Scientology attorney, a gentleman by the name of Mr. Moxin
3 (phonetic), an attorney from Los Angeles, who we were told
4 had obtained the requisite spiritual level to review these
5 materials.
6 Now, we got back 58 disks that allegedly contained
7 the infringing materials. We went through those disks. We
8 went through three of those disks. We printed out some of
9 the shorter ones and went through them in the 30(b)6
10 deposition that we conducted, and the plaintiffs designated
11 Mr. McShane, the President of the RTC, as its 30(b)6
12 witness.
13 We went through three of these documents,
14 presented to him in their entirety. What did we find out?
15 One that they designated as an infringement was this OT 8
16 document that Mr. Cooley speaks of with great passion, that
17 it's a forgery. 'It's an outrageous slander against Jesus
18 Christ.' They designated that and impounded it, Your Honor.
19 They seized it from Mr. Lerma and they impounded it, the
20 same document this they lambast the Washington Post for
21 printing excerpts of.
22 Now, what's the explanation that we are offered in
23 response when we questioned them at the deposition? Well,
24 we are told that obviously Mr. Moxin does not know which
25 documents are which.

page 82

1 We submit to this Court that if Mr. Moxin, a
2 highly placed church attorney, could not make the
3 distinction between which is which, how can Mr. Lerma be
4 expected to act at his peril?
So now CoS has a severe problem. There are two possible answers:
- OT8 is a fake. In which case Moxon overstepped the judge's rules for the search on Lerma's files big time - he designated and impounded it - and also doesn't know his OT's from a forgery (and didn't the cult claim that their technologies improve memory?)
- OT8 is not a fake. In which case Hubbard did refer to Jesus as 'a lover of young boys' and CoS's lawyer Cooley was lying in court when he said that OT8 was a forgery.
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
This one paragraph is what turned me away from any and all further practice of scientology.

For those of you whose Christian toes I may have stepped on, let me take the
opportunity to disabuse you of some lovely myths. For instance, the historic
Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure has been made out to be. In addition
to being a lover of young boys and men, he was given to uncontrollable bursts of
temper and hatred that belied the general message of love, understanding and
other typical Marcab PR. You have only to look at the history his teachings
inspired to see where it all inevitably leads. It is historic fact and yet man
still clings to the ideal, so deep and insidious is the biologic implanting.
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
But where did you see it first ? In or outside the church,online or on Paper ?


I saw it first on ARS about 13 years ago. But it was after it was placed into court docs as the church had to admit that it was part of church doctrine.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
I saw it first on ARS about 13 years ago. But it was after it was placed into court docs as the church had to admit that it was part of church doctrine.

Have you seen paper scans or copies of it on ARS ? 13 years wow Scientology sure knows how to pull one in lol
 

Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
Fake

It's not LRH's writing or speaking style. Way too comprehendible. Certainly the phrase, "Later, in charcteristic over-optimism" would never come from LRH.

Perhaps a compilation of comments he made to someone else.

Regardless, I don't believe it's LRH. For whatever difference it makes. Believe it if you want to.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
It's not LRH's writing or speaking style. Way too comprehendible. Certainly the phrase, "Later, in charcteristic over-optimism" would never come from LRH.

Perhaps a compilation of comments he made to someone else.

Regardless, I don't believe it's LRH. For whatever difference it makes. Believe it if you want to.

Paul and Boojunm say its fake than Mmoxon did the church a great disservice to say it was copyrighted material.

moxon.jpg
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
After years of discussion on the net and supposed proof both ways, I still am undecided about this document.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
<SNIP>
I will return not as a religious leader but a political one. That happens to be the requisite beingness for the task at hand. I will not be known to most of you, my activities misunderstood by many, yet along with your constant effort in the theta band I will effectively postpone and then halt a series of events designed to make happy slaves of us all.
<snip>

OMFG! I just had this amazing cognition:

HE'S BACK! HE WALKS AMONG US! HE'S Glenn Beck!
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
This was not on the New OTVIII course nor was it presented as any OTVIII confidential message.

In addition to all that, it is not LRH. It's not his speaking style, nor his writing style. I didn't even bother to completely read it all the way to the end. IMO it's hogwash.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
This was not on the New OTVIII course nor was it presented as any OTVIII confidential message.

In addition to all that, it is not LRH. It's not his speaking style, nor his writing style. I didn't even bother to completely read it all the way to the end. IMO it's hogwash.

You have many years inside the church on your belt haven't you ? So Moxon screwed up royaly claiming it was copyright church material.
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
After years of discussion on the net and supposed proof both ways, I still am undecided about this document.

I once asked on of the original OT VIII's a question about God and he gave me a condescending smile and told me to word clear the 8th Dynamic. Also, from reading the auditing questions from super power, it is obvious that the EP of that rundown is for the PC to cognite that he is his own god.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
It's fake. I can't *prove* it's fake, but there is no evidence that it is real.

The evidence that its real is that Moxon testified in court that it was real. Its relatively consistent with other Scientology material and it also kinda explains why some exes get into Bhuddhism. Of course, if Moxon perjured himself, his testimony could be a Scientology "acceptable truth" so as to feed misinformation into the protest movement.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!"
 

Feral

Rogue male
It's fake. I can't *prove* it's fake, but there is no evidence that it is real.

Paul

I concur. In a Scn sense it doesn't follow, especially the stuff about the rundown having an effect on your GE line.

Moxon claiming it was a clever diversionary tactic. If he didn't claim it that action alone would verify the other leaked stuff.
 
This was not on the New OTVIII course nor was it presented as any OTVIII confidential message.

In addition to all that, it is not LRH. It's not his speaking style, nor his writing style. I didn't even bother to completely read it all the way to the end. IMO it's hogwash.

By time 1980 rolled around Hubbard's brain was pretty much guacamole. He was so far gone how would you know what his speaking or writing style was at that point? Is there anything else or that era to honestly compare it to? It sounds typical of the delusional babbling that is on RJ 26 and RJ 36 which is of that era.
 
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