OT wins or Derealisation?

Feral

Rogue male
Hoaxie dropped a bomb on his Top 100 thread....God love him, about OT wins. I think it deserves a thread all on it's own.

I'll leave his post here in full before I go on;

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=547910&postcount=1456

Sadly Stupid Success Stories....

A few moments ago I received an E-Mail PROMO from the Freewinds on their newest OT VIII Completion... (bold was added for emphasis)


Quote:

“I just completed New OT VIII!

Down the dwindling spiral I encountered more and more MEST to the point where I almost became MEST from there on out.

But, through the miracle of Scientology, I have gradiently removed MEST from my universe until I am now a pure static with no matter, energy, space or time. I am truly pure theta and this is such a revitalization of myself that I have separated out from the MEST universe entirely.

It isn’t that I am exterior from the MEST universe. I am actually disconnected from it fully.

New OT VIII concentrates, magnifies and expands a 100 million times all of the upper scale attributes of theta – affinity, reality, communication, understanding, love, happiness, immortality, truth, beingness, etc. I literally became truth – a pure static with no MEST or connections to any MEST anywhere! The MEST has been reduced to zero and my own universe has expanded out to infinity.

I have taken the first step on the ladder of real OT levels and it was a huge step – much further than I thought possible!

My success in getting to and through New OT VIII depended greatly on my Scientology training – I am a Golden Age of Tech Class IV auditor, Basics Books completion and heavily trained in Ethics Technology. Being trained in the Basics is your key to making it all the way to full OT!

I will be returning home to the San Francisco area and booming the field group that my wife and I run, getting new public into Scientology and helping to expand the San Francisco Org through OT Committee projects.

I wish to thank my wife, for all of her devotion and help in getting me to this level.

My heartfelt gratitude to the fantastic staff here on the Freewinds without which the upper Bridge would be available.

My admiration to RTC and Chairman of the Board for really putting Scientology here in its pure form for all to benefit from.

And my greatest acknowledgement for Ron who gave all of us the greatest game in the universe to play – going free!” – Tim White



end quote/
Here's the problem.

The parts bolded are not wins.

They are clinical descriptions of an individual in the early stages of dissociative personality disorder, the symptoms of which include, amongst many other things, derealization.


Derealization (sometimes abbreviated as DR) is an alteration in the perception or experience of the external world so that it seems strange or unreal. Other symptoms include feeling as though one's environment is lacking in spontaneity, emotional colouring and depth. It is a dissociative symptom of many conditions, such as psychiatric and neurological disorders, and not a standalone disorder. It is also a transient side effect of acute drug intoxication, sleep deprivation, and stress.Derealization is a subjective experience of unreality of the outside world, while depersonalization is unreality in one's sense of self. [Wiki]

For me it explained some extreme and incredible, even overwhelming experiences that I experienced on the OT levels that I'd never been able to process mentally.

When I was in I had to accept them as wins or accept that I was bordering on delusional.....even dissociated, as an OT VII that would have been impossible, right? :coolwink: So therefore these events were strange OT phenomenon that were part of my journey to God like states.

The first was a when I was on OTIII and the meter was suddenly HUGE in my vision, like it was inches from my eyes, then in an instant it was back to it's normal position about 18" to two feet away on the table, then it was up close again then tiny in my vision. It was disturbing to say the least and I guess in an effort to abate the cognitive dissonance I explained it by accepting I was exterior.

Many years later when My wife and I were on OT VII we'd audit a couple of sessions after dinner and go for a walk before bed, I recall just looking around and particularly at a street sign, suddenly the scene I was looking at got depth.....the third dimension that is visible to ... I thought; every one, I hadn't noticed that my world was lacking depth and had been appearing in two dimensions, I asked Vicky if any thing happened to her and she experienced the same thing at the same time (which is weird, but let's not go there just now).

So chasing space aliens around in your head does what for your relationship to the physical world and your sanity?

I have a few more examples but I think I'll wait till someone else makes an arse out of themselves too, so's I'm not alone, that is before I tell you them.

Bloody Criiiiinge.

Depersonalisation is mentioned there as well....damit.
 
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Very interesting.

Some unusual and difficult to articulate experiences can stay out of the reach of thinking processes and so get stuck with only one way to interpret them.
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
All My Beetees

Hoaxie dropped a bomb on his Top 100 thread....God love him, about OT wins. I think it deserves a thread all on it's own.

I'll leave his post here in full before I go on;

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=547910&postcount=1456



For me it explained some extreme and incredible, even overwhelming experiences that I experienced on the OT levels that I'd never been able to process mentally.

When I was in I had to accept them as wins or accept that I was bordering on delusional.....even dissociated, as an OT VII that would have been impossible, right? :coolwink: So therefore these events were strange OT phenomenon that were part of my journey to God like states.

The first was a when I was on OTIII and the meter was suddenly HUGE in my vision, like it was inches from my eyes, then in an instant it was back to it's normal position about 18" to two feet away on the table, then it was up close again then tiny in my vision. It was disturbing to say the least and I guess in an effort to abate the cognitive dissonance I explained it by accepting I was exterior.

Many years later when My wife and I were on OT VII we'd audit a couple of sessions after dinner and go for a walk before bed, I recall just looking around and particularly at a street sign, suddenly the scene I was looking at got depth.....the third dimension that is visible to ... I thought; every one, I hadn't noticed that my world was lacking depth and had been appearing in two dimensions, I asked Vicky if any thing happened to her and she experienced the same thing at the same time (which is weird, but let's not go there just now).

So chasing space aliens around in your head does what for your relationship to the physical world and your sanity?

I have a few more examples but I think I'll wait till someone else makes an arse out of themselves too, so's I'm not alone, that is before I tell you them.

Criiiiinge.

Depersonalisation is mentioned there as well....damit.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Pete

All My Beetees, the Oatee VII Song
(tune of All My Lovin’)

With eyes closed I can feel you,
My e-meter reads you,
And Ron said you’re real so its true.
But I’ll shoo you away,
In a telepathic way,
When I audit the crap out of you!

My incident listing,
Is psychically fisting,
And carving a new one for you,
I’ll audit every day,
‘Till I drive you away,
You and all your cluster buddies, too.

All my beetees, I will audit you,
All my clusters, I will bust you too.

(guitar solo)

With eyes closed I can feel you,
My e-meter reads you,
And Ron said you’re real so its true.
But I’ll shoo you away,
In a telepathic way,
When I audit the crap out of you!

All my beetees, I will audit you,
All my clusters, I will bust you too.
All my beetees, all my beetees, ooh!
All my clusters, I will bust you too.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Hoaxie dropped a bomb on his Top 100 thread....God love him, about OT wins. I think it deserves a thread all on it's own.

I'll leave his post here in full before I go on;

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=547910&postcount=1456



For me it explained some extreme and incredible, even overwhelming experiences that I experienced on the OT levels that I'd never been able to process mentally.

When I was in I had to accept them as wins or accept that I was bordering on delusional.....even dissociated, as an OT VII that would have been impossible, right? :coolwink: So therefore these events were strange OT phenomenon that were part of my journey to God like states.

The first was a when I was on OTIII and the meter was suddenly HUGE in my vision, like it was inches from my eyes, then in an instant it was back to it's normal position about 18" to two feet away on the table, then it was up close again then tiny in my vision. It was disturbing to say the least and I guess in an effort to abate the cognitive dissonance I explained it by accepting I was exterior.

Many years later when My wife and I were on OT VII we'd audit a couple of sessions after dinner and go for a walk before bed, I recall just looking around and particularly at a street sign, suddenly the scene I was looking at got depth.....the third dimension that is visible to ... I thought; every one, I hadn't noticed that my world was lacking depth and had been appearing in two dimensions, I asked Vicky if any thing happened to her and she experienced the same thing at the same time (which is weird, but let's not go there just now).

So chasing space aliens around in your head does what for your relationship to the physical world and your sanity?

I have a few more examples but I think I'll wait till someone else makes an arse out of themselves too, so's I'm not alone, that is before I tell you them.

Criiiiinge.

Depersonalisation is mentioned there as well....damit.

I think it's great that you posted that, honestly. I didn't do OT levels but I know many who did and I don't think you are alone!

My own understanding is that the levels are all about 'taking away'....and if you do that long enough - what are you left with? :)
 
This is what being "OT" is all about

old-L-Ron-Hubbard.jpg


Why anyone would want to end up there, let alone spend $300K doing it, is beyond me.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
This reminds me of a time, when in session, I had what would be called a 'blow out' experience by scientology terms.

During the session, I felt complete affinity, or so I thought. The auditor, an OT IV & Cl V, looked at me and said, "End of Session". I stood up and then he then stood up and came over to me and proceeded to embrace me and kiss me on the lips. I was so overwhelmed by the 'affinity' from the session experience and his embraces that I stood there and and had an orgasm. Mind you, I felt no attraction for this man, sexual or otherwise. I was just there feeling the feeling. The orgasm helped ground me enough to where I peacefully floated to the examiner and F/N'd and went home.

Later that day, the auditor came to my apt, embraced me again and told me that he loved me, wanted to be with me forever, and I said nothing. I do not resist nor do I feel anything sexual - just the feeling of basking in the 'affinity' thing.

The next day he came back and said he wanted to show me something, and so drove to Catalna St and he takes me to this apartment that was furnature-less, apparently For Rent. He starts kissing me and then tells me he wants to marry me and that we will live in this apt. I ponder what he is saying as I look around and see polished hardwood floors and lacy curtains on the windows. He then opens a blanket he's apparently brought in and lays it on the floor. and then proceeds to undress me. I do not resist because I am once again overwhelmed by affinity and sensations as he embraces me again, and lay me on the blanket. He undresses and lays on me, all caught up in passion, kissing me, touching me - myself responding automatically it seemed, with him proceeding to try and perform intercourse. He could not get an erection but he was acting as if he had one. He then pulls out a snicker bar, saying that his suger is low and that might be the cause.

That is when I woke up from this mesmerized state. On the verge of tears I realized I have awakened from a dream of sorts, a bad dream, and had to say something - Here I was there with a married man who was my auditor, who had seduced me in session, who asked me to move in with him and wanted to marry me even though I never said a word indicating I even liked him in that way, who thought he had an erection when he didn't.

I reported us to ethics. Found out that he was diabetic and in bad shape, ('whatever that means', I thought at the time). I found myself so ashamed, so insistent that this be addressed in ethics, but the MAA made it seem like it was no big deal, just do conditions.

I found it very difficult to explain how I robotically allowed this to happen. I was always someone who respected relationships & marriage and had in the past turned down men asking for dates because they were involved with others. I was not promiscuous. My head was spinning on how I could have betrayed his wife, a staff member, knowing they were married and not stopping what was going on. It was as if reality was not a part of what happened until he failed to get an erection!

We did our conditions. I found out from him that he was being regged by SMI and they didn't want to make a big deal of this in case he backed out.

I made amends to his wife, who was pissed because apparently this was not the first time this had happened. That brought me some relief but the experience was something I never talked about again. I transferred my folders to another org for services. I never saw him again.

Years later, after I'd left scientology, I really looked over what happened there and came to understand the hypnotic effects auditing can produce. How dangerous it can be. Just saying......
 

Good twin

Floater
This is a great topic and definitely deserves its own thread. Thanks Kevin.

I also had that "3 dimension" experience, but it was when I completed the Scn DRD. The last step of the rundown is an objective process. My auditor chose to take me outside and do a locational. While walking outside and doing the commands and sort of basking in the wins of the drug recall processes, I had that same experience. I looked at my auditor and said "My god, everything is so three dimensional." It really was a very vivid experience and it made sense after completing the DRD that I would no longer see the universe at "flat".

I always had amazing "wins" and magical experiences while in the cult. Funny thing about that though is that since leaving the cult my life is still amazing and magical. Maybe it's just me. :p
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
I hear what you are saying Feral but to me I still have a problem thinking psychology knows what really happened. This isn't from my scio training but real experiences before getting into scn. Many "psychs" are in fact clueless. I know I met some. It's the most inexact "science" I've ever seen.

I still had a couple of amazing experiences while in scio-fi fantasy land. Who the hell knows what really happened? I don't and I would scoff at anybody who actually thought they did as they weren't there and should STFU. In the end I think we as a species have just scratched the surface as to what is going on between our ears. Flubbard knew many people didn't trust psychology and milked it for everything it was worth.

Just my 2 cents.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
This is a great topic and definitely deserves its own thread. Thanks Kevin.

I also had that "3 dimension" experience, but it was when I completed the Scn DRD. The last step of the rundown is an objective process. My auditor chose to take me outside and do a locational. While walking outside and doing the commands and sort of basking in the wins of the drug recall processes, I had that same experience. I looked at my auditor and said "My god, everything is so three dimensional." It really was a very vivid experience and it made sense after completing the DRD that I would no longer see the universe at "flat".

I always had amazing "wins" and magical experiences while in the cult. Funny thing about that though is that since leaving the cult my life is still amazing and magical. Maybe it's just me. :p

I had the 3D observation and 'cognition' during my DRD, resulting in my attesting to completion if I recall correctly.

I attribute it to a kind of reverse drug induced bognition, lol
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
Hoaxie dropped a bomb on his Top 100 thread....God love him, about OT wins. I think it deserves a thread all on it's own.

I'll leave his post here in full before I go on;

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=547910&postcount=1456



For me it explained some extreme and incredible, even overwhelming experiences that I experienced on the OT levels that I'd never been able to process mentally.

When I was in I had to accept them as wins or accept that I was bordering on delusional.....even dissociated, as an OT VII that would have been impossible, right? :coolwink: So therefore these events were strange OT phenomenon that were part of my journey to God like states.

The first was a when I was on OTIII and the meter was suddenly HUGE in my vision, like it was inches from my eyes, then in an instant it was back to it's normal position about 18" to two feet away on the table, then it was up close again then tiny in my vision. It was disturbing to say the least and I guess in an effort to abate the cognitive dissonance I explained it by accepting I was exterior.

Many years later when My wife and I were on OT VII we'd audit a couple of sessions after dinner and go for a walk before bed, I recall just looking around and particularly at a street sign, suddenly the scene I was looking at got depth.....the third dimension that is visible to ... I thought; every one, I hadn't noticed that my world was lacking depth and had been appearing in two dimensions, I asked Vicky if any thing happened to her and she experienced the same thing at the same time (which is weird, but let's not go there just now).

So chasing space aliens around in your head does what for your relationship to the physical world and your sanity?

I have a few more examples but I think I'll wait till someone else makes an arse out of themselves too, so's I'm not alone, that is before I tell you them.

Bloody Criiiiinge.

Depersonalisation is mentioned there as well....damit.


It's interesting that the first one you described has to do with your perception of sight. My first experience of this sort had to do with my perception of hearing.

I was in session back in the 70s on the DRD (Drug rundown). Back when Mark Vs were the only E-meter. All of a sudden in the middle of session, I perceived a jet way above the building and I was there, in the sky with the jet, under the jet, hearing the sound and feeling the sound waves it emanated. Then, after a few seconds of that, I was back in the auditing room perceiving/hearing the needle of the Mark V hit the pin hard first on one side, then 2-3 seconds later swing over and hit the pin hard on the other side. That went on for about 4-5 swings when the auditor finally woke up and calmly asked me what was going on.

I told him. I considered this exteriorization.
 
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RogerB

Crusader
Great Topic

Great Topic, Feral and Hoaxie. Very relevant, and worth getting into.

A lot of weird shit can occur when messing with one's Spiritual Teammates incorrectly, as is dictated by the Hubbard think.

Thrak, raised a valid point also. The "psychs" don't have the answers, though they do have lots and lots of decent observations . . . the problem with the psych "tech" is their incorrect conclusions in interpreting what they have observed and, of course, the labeling of things as "disorders" the way they do.

In reading the "success story" posted by Hoaxie and commented on by Feral, I have to say I concur that the EP and win raved about by the OT8 completion is nuts . . . "It isn’t that I am exterior from the MEST universe. I am actually disconnected from it fully." He says!

As Alan W used to say, "That is up the pole!" to which I would add, "and out the bottom!"

It is one of the great and catastrophic errors of $cn that its devotees think that they have to "get free from the physical universe" in the way that they do." And I will tell that it was a think I myself had when I was in . . . you know, the "Theta/MEST" thing and enturbulation of Theta by MEST that we got convinced we had to undo! :duh::duh:

Be warned, that think is a wrong answer!

More correct is the recovery of your ability to work with the Physical Universe (PU): and to restore your knowing relationship and volition regarding it.

Being detached from the PU and unable to affect or influence it at will is a dunces game. That is out the bottom and total effect of it still but unaware of such.

So, my having said the above is probably causing many to wonder what the hell I mean and how do you "control and/or otherwise influence or affect the PU?"

Well, this is the simplicity of what the mechanics are.

We know that "reality" is based on agreement. So the thing to know then, would be: agreement on what precisely, and with whom?

The primary and most intimate connections you have that afford reality to/for you are your Spiritual Teammates (STMs). Screw with them as in the Cof$ thing of "blowing them" and you are headed for potential catastrophe.

And what is it that is agreed between you and your STMs to produce "reality?" The answer is: Spiritually produced and projected imagery in the form of 3D holograhic projects of formed spiritual Life-Force. (You might liken it to "thought" from your current perspective.)

That is, you operating in concert and harmony with your STMs (and with them operating from their perspective and slightly different position) projecting that which, due to such agreement and fusing of imagery, is seen and accepted as reality. You can (and do if you are operating high enough) accomplish this with others at a human level. Good marriage partnerships experience this.

So, you see, now, the error and danger of Hubbard's idea of screwing with your spiritual connections the way he dictated. Better is the recovery of harmony and enhanced understanding with your STMs so you and they can produce the harmonious outcomes you want. :yes:

So, the objectives one ought have are:
1) recovery of and harmonious relationship with the PU and ability to work with it and to be able to influence it at volition and,
2) recovery of harmony, alignment and ability to co-create with one's STMs.
3) the third vital thing to recover is to be able to work in harmony and alignment with one's STMs in the perceiving of the realities you and others produce. Your STMs are very much a key to your correct and whole perceptions in the game.​

RogerB
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Oh, come now, I have seen many OT wins and listened in awe to such !

Examples?

Certainly !

Here ya go !

These are ALL after OT 8 by various people ( whose name I must not ever reveal and all that )

" The room seems brighter " !

" My space is calmer " !

" The sun just came out " !

" The rain stopped " !

" That hurricane missed Clearwater. I made it do that "!
 

RogerB

Crusader
AnonyMary,

Quite a story to have gotten off your chest. :yes:

Experiences like that are not uncommon, so please don't in any way feel odd or off about it.

The tragedy is that the "auditor" was so out of control and out integrity (apart from out-eth).

Spiritual Teammates (STMs) can and do have enormous influence and effect on one. It is not uncommon for STMs to so influence or dominate a person that they do or experience things they don't understand or wouldn't have knowingly and with full volition chosen to do. (And thus can later regret.)

And old business partner of mine confided in me once that the disappointing marriage he'd gotten involved in was because of (due to) STM mutual influence between he and his wife (both their STMs pulled it off). He got it all sorted out after he did the original OT levels OT7 and 3X.

It's part of why/how folks can have orgasms while asleep.

Rog
 

Mystic

Crusader
Well Mr. Tim White of San Francisco and wife, you have a LONG way to go. Sounds like you just added a few thousand more incarnations to your soul journey. Which is exactly what scientology was designed to do.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
AnonyMary,

Quite a story to have gotten off your chest. :yes:

Experiences like that are not uncommon, so please don't in any way feel odd or off about it.

The tragedy is that the "auditor" was so out of control and out integrity (apart from out-eth).

Spiritual Teammates (STMs) can and do have enormous influence and effect on one. It is not uncommon for STMs to so influence or dominate a person that they do or experience things they don't understand or wouldn't have knowingly and with full volition chosen to do. (And thus can later regret.)

And old business partner of mine confided in me once that the disappointing marriage he'd gotten involved in was because of (due to) STM mutual influence between he and his wife (both their STMs pulled it off). He got it all sorted out after he did the original OT levels OT7 and 3X.

It's part of why/how folks can have orgasms while asleep.

Rog

Are you saying he was my spiritual teammate? :whistling:

BTW, I got over that series of incidents a long time ago. I posted it for the benefit of readers but thank you for letting me know that it is more common than I thought. :omg:

ps: I certainly seemed to be asleep at the time, lol
 
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FoTi

Crusader
Well Mr. Tim White of San Francisco and wife, you have a LONG way to go. Sounds like you just added a few thousand more incarnations to your soul journey. Which is exactly what scientology was designed to do.

Mr Tim White of San Francisco and wife.......who is that and what does that have to do with this thread?

Are you referring to the quote of the guy who finished OT8? How do you know his name is Tim White?

Just curious.
 

FoTi

Crusader
AnonyMary,

Quite a story to have gotten off your chest. :yes:

Experiences like that are not uncommon, so please don't in any way feel odd or off about it.

The tragedy is that the "auditor" was so out of control and out integrity (apart from out-eth).

Spiritual Teammates (STMs) can and do have enormous influence and effect on one. It is not uncommon for STMs to so influence or dominate a person that they do or experience things they don't understand or wouldn't have knowingly and with full volition chosen to do. (And thus can later regret.)

And old business partner of mine confided in me once that the disappointing marriage he'd gotten involved in was because of (due to) STM mutual influence between he and his wife (both their STMs pulled it off). He got it all sorted out after he did the original OT levels OT7 and 3X.

It's part of why/how folks can have orgasms while asleep.

Rog

This is really interesting. Thanks for this helpful post Roger.
 

FoTi

Crusader
Hoaxie dropped a bomb on his Top 100 thread....God love him, about OT wins. I think it deserves a thread all on it's own.

I'll leave his post here in full before I go on;

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=547910&postcount=1456



For me it explained some extreme and incredible, even overwhelming experiences that I experienced on the OT levels that I'd never been able to process mentally.

When I was in I had to accept them as wins or accept that I was bordering on delusional.....even dissociated, as an OT VII that would have been impossible, right? :coolwink: So therefore these events were strange OT phenomenon that were part of my journey to God like states.

The first was a when I was on OTIII and the meter was suddenly HUGE in my vision, like it was inches from my eyes, then in an instant it was back to it's normal position about 18" to two feet away on the table, then it was up close again then tiny in my vision. It was disturbing to say the least and I guess in an effort to abate the cognitive dissonance I explained it by accepting I was exterior.

Many years later when My wife and I were on OT VII we'd audit a couple of sessions after dinner and go for a walk before bed, I recall just looking around and particularly at a street sign, suddenly the scene I was looking at got depth.....the third dimension that is visible to ... I thought; every one, I hadn't noticed that my world was lacking depth and had been appearing in two dimensions, I asked Vicky if any thing happened to her and she experienced the same thing at the same time (which is weird, but let's not go there just now).

So chasing space aliens around in your head does what for your relationship to the physical world and your sanity?

I have a few more examples but I think I'll wait till someone else makes an arse out of themselves too, so's I'm not alone, that is before I tell you them.

Bloody Criiiiinge.

Depersonalisation is mentioned there as well....damit.

I never did OT Levels, but I did experience quite a bit of this phenomenon during and after receiving auditing at ASHO back in the 70's. I didn't experience it before Scientology that I am aware of. I never felt overwhelmed or disassociated or delusional about it....it seemed pretty natural to me. I felt more like I was waking up and I rather enjoyed it whenever I would experience it.....actually I liked it alot. Anytime my perceptions were enhanced or that I was aware of being obviously exterior I always liked it....it always made me feel happier and freer....and more alive. I see nothing wrong with this phenomenon. These things happening were some of the results of Scientology that I really liked and would never have any complaints about those.

What I didn't like about Scientology was and is the abusiveness that keeps people down, supressed and ignorant......the lies.....the contradictions....the supression of truth.....the enforced crap used to run the organization and extract money from people and slave labor and control of people's communication with one another and the rest of the world and other knowledge that is available to help one sort out what is and what isn't to be able to come to their own conclusions about life. And I didn't like the constant pressure to hurry up and get through a course for their stats instead of letting a person take their time to really get all they could out of a course for themselves - for their own use in life. I found some very useful things in Scientology in amongst the garbage. Unfortunately I got garbage all over me and my family whilel digging through the garbage for the good stuff. :grouch:

As far as that OTVIII success story goes.....and his saying,....

" But, through the miracle of Scientology, I have gradiently removed MEST from my universe until I am now a pure static with no matter, energy, space or time. I am truly pure theta and this is such a revitalization of myself that I have separated out from the MEST universe entirely.

It isn’t that I am exterior from the MEST universe. I am actually disconnected from it fully.

New OT VIII concentrates, magnifies and expands a 100 million times all of the upper scale attributes of theta – affinity, reality, communication, understanding, love, happiness, immortality, truth, beingness, etc. I literally became truth – a pure static with no MEST or connections to any MEST anywhere! The MEST has been reduced to zero and my own universe has expanded out to infinity."

I have experienced that and there is no way, as far as I can see, that one can be in that state and operate in the physical universe at the same time. If one is operating in the physical universe and effecting it in some way and experiencing or perceiving their effects, then they are connected in some way to the physical universe otherwise how would they be able to perceive it or know what was going on?

How could this dude get up and give a success story to people connected to the physical universe without being connected himself. If he has no connections to the physical universe how can he be going back to San Francisco with his wife?????
 

RogerB

Crusader
Are you saying he was my spiritual teammate? :whistling:

BTW, I got over that series of incidents a long time ago. I posted it for the benefit of readers but thank you for letting me know that it is more common than I thought. :omg:

ps: I certainly seemed to be asleep at the time, lol

Hell no! (In fact, by his conduct he is in no way worthy to of such or aspire to such! :))

All I have suggested is that your STMs may have been influenced and/or influenced you. It is also possible each of your STMs went on a little to do that became a tangle.

But if none of this indicates, then kindly ignore it :yes:

R
 

Mystic

Crusader
Mr Tim White of San Francisco and wife.......who is that and what does that have to do with this thread?

Are you referring to the quote of the guy who finished OT8? How do you know his name is Tim White?

Just curious.

The name was at the end of the suckcess story.
 
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