Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Gadfly,
Bloody wonderful post this of yours above!
Quite brilliant.
Rog
I concur.
Mark A. Baker
Gadfly,
Bloody wonderful post this of yours above!
Quite brilliant.
Rog
If everything is just mocked up, fine. I guess that includes gravity, electrodynamics, and so on. Why not? If I stub my toe and it hurts, no doubt that's just because I fundamentally agreed to play the game of materiality. If I jump from height, I will fall, for the same reason. Yup: all just mocked up.
Well, could be. But I'm afraid I'm reminded of a little kid sitting in the back seat, turning a pot lid in both hands, and saying, "Brrrrrmmm!!!". He's making the car go! Yup!
I once read OTIII (plus additional data which I have yet to see on the internet). I word cleared, I demoed the whole scenario and all of a sudden something incredible happened- something very powerful. A huge blue light poured out of my head- it flicked in and out for a few minutes and there was a holohraphic of a Marilyn Monroe type figure, looking very broken in a babydoll dress in the light. I stood up and got out of the chair and cannot describe how big I felt. The veil had been lifted.
This was whilst reading data critical of Scientology.
I've heard sort of similar stories. Thats apart from the successes of those formally running OT 3. This level gets results.
OT 3 is a mind-trap, full of Hubbardian significance "absolutely vital to your survival," that uses the pretense of "exorcism" to put you at the effect of Hubbard - preferably for the rest of your life.
When it was released, years ago, it was supposed to eliminate the final barrier to full OT, and that's why some people allowed their minds to be violated by it, as it promised to be the final - albeit bizarre - step, before someone could just go off and do "Route One Drills."
E-meters are not truth detectors, and Hubbard, though he could be brilliant at times, was not an honest guru.
Veda wrote:
All of Scientology performs the same general purpose that Veda describes above, but OT 3, with its pretense of exorcism, was probably the pinnacle of Hubbard's creative purpose.
When you can't see it, you just can't see it.
Some don't get where the line is drawn. Obviously. I think we can AGREE on that.
The entirety of the construct around us and all its natural laws are an intentional product. Within the confines of it we exercise certain freedoms. What would the one experience be without the other.
Between my two hands gripping either side of my smartphone which I'm holding horizontal, I am typing this with one index finger and pretending a message will be sent when I click submit. Right through the ethers..... whoooooooosh. Boy! Somebody sure mocked that up somewhere.
What IS?
What ISN'T?
Gaddie,
You're doing it again . . . you're impressing me!
Nice lucid piece above and nicely nuanced
Though I have a little point or two upon which I have a slightly different perspective, it is a lovely write up.
I'll make some time later to express my little point of different experience and perspective. For you raise some important issues.
Rog
Gaddie,
You're doing it again . . . you're impressing me!
Nice lucid piece above and nicely nuanced
Though I have a little point or two upon which I have a slightly different perspective, it is a lovely write up.
I'll make some time later to express my little point of different experience and perspective. For you raise some important issues.
Rog
Yep...Gaddie puttin' up some great, great stuff.
Thank, Gadfly. I'm gettin' a lot of good oudda your posts.
Face
You are welcome. In a sense, I get much out of organizing the observations and trying to communicate them.
There is another KEY point here.
It is the duty of any viewpoint to OBSERVE HONESTLY within the framework of the Universe. I in no way imply that a person should "delude" self by accepting beliefs and considerations that deny actual facts and events.
But, this also involves a fine line, because part of practicing any form of magic (which includes many New Age subjects not called "magic") involves being able to disagree with current conditions. It is very tricky, because to change ones considerations one must change ones view in the face of often contradictory "data", and then quietly allow the Universe enough time to "catch up" with the new set of considerations.
I need to give a few examples, and this could take up a few chapters in a book.
For instance, it is a "fact" that the Church of Scientology attempted to frame Paulette Cooper in a crime that she didn't commit. It happened. It occurred as an event in the physical universe. It would be totally absurd to try to change ones agreements and considerations to have that "disappear" from your reality. Though, some people do deny such facts. It is not uncommon in life for people to deny and refuse to LOOK AT events and situations that disrupt ones neat little restrictive box of reality. It is part of my "philosophy" that one should NEVER DO THAT. Things such as misrepresentation, distortion of facts, lying, exagerrating and denial of facts, to self or to others is a MAJOR CRIME in my book. Such mental behaviors and tendencies block any and all roads to truth.
Sure, you can accept certain ideas that allow you to JUSTIFY the action, as many Scientologists do, using some Scio-based logic based on the idea that "anything is okay because we HAVE THE TRUTH and Paulette is an SP", but that is BULLSHIT, and NOT what I am talking about. Justification is equally despicable.
Do not EVER try to trick yourself into denying or altering the time, place, form and event of ANY actual situation that occurred in the Universe of shared-mutual experience. THAT opens a door to delusion and self-deception.
Next example. A woman has been divorced for a few years. The husband had been verbally abusive, and she internalized some of these ideas, and still has feelings of "inferiority" and "worthlessness". She "agrees" on some level that she is these things. So, taking a little bit of practical magic, in the form of affirmations, she gentle repeats to herself for a few minutes every day the following statements:
I am worthy of love.
I am a good person with valuable abilities.
I no longer attract violent men.
This is where it gets tricky. The current reality, the world she sees and experiences NOW, involves a view where she isn't worthy of love, where she has been attracting violent men, and where she has not been a good person (though less so than the other two). So, understanding the rules of consciousness, she sets out to create the thought and FEELING of the above statements. If she continues, and actually allows these notions to seep down into her subconscious (where all agreements seem to reside), they will act through some strange inexplicable connection to the rest of the entire Universe and change her life situations. But, before THAT, she changes her VIEW of herself and the world in which she lives. And, she does THAT by changing her agreements and considerations about herself and the world in which she lives.
One doesn't deny or pretend that the past hasn't happened. That is NOT healthy. Of course, totalitarian outfits, such as Scientology, lie about, suppress facts, and rewrite history all of the time to keep a tight control on adherents. THAT is bonkers. But, one can undersatnd that ones "current view and experience of reality" is based on "previously held agreements", and know that as long as one changes certain ideas NOW, that ones experiences of reality will eventually and suitably follow along. Remember, ANY "view" of reality (experience) is dependent greatly on YOU and HOW you choose to look out at it all.
The idea involves a certain sphere of activity around any person, which involves your health, prosperity, friendships, work, success, love, etc. As the sphere expands out into groups, and Mankind, the ability to directly influence goes down fast. Some people say, "well, if you can change things with magic then get rid of all pain and suffering for everybody". The missing factor in all of that is that at this point of the evolution of the Universe there are many seemingly "independent" points of consciousness with "free will". They each need to walk the path. Why? I don't know. But, nobody can wave his or her hand and just make it all "perfect". But, you CAN work to make YOURSELF perfect.
It is from that notion that Ghandi said, "be the change you want to see in the world".
For some reason, God doesn't seem to put much stock in you finding your way back to Him/Her unless you do it through your OWN hard work! :confused2:
Now, we can talk and theorize about how one might be able to PUSH some of the control past the first and second dynamics, out into the other dynamics, but THAT gets VERY "theoretical". Also, if it is true that any person's considerations set the stage for and determine his or her life experiences, then the larger dynamics involve a great many more sets of considerations and agreements (which are often at odds with each other).
I think people like Hubbard and some others, had the notion that he/they would work to change reality by getting MANY OTHERS to agree and consider certain things. In that way, MANY points of awareness, with similar agreements, might attract and bring about some new version (view) of reality. I think it is a dumb idea myself, but I don't doubt that some have experimented with that notion.
Also, from a theoretical Scientology view, implants function in that way. If enough spiritual beings are implanted with the same set of considerations, which sink down into deep subconscious levels, then these billions and trillions (and many more) beings will "see" a shared reality based on the content of the implants. I don't believe that, but simply threw out a possibility that might align with other Scientology ideas (which also may or may not be true).
There is the shared universe. The MEST universe. It stays the same for the most part, and whatever changes occur do so over long periods of time.
And, there is YOUR universe (personal awareness along with all the considerations and agreements), which may or may not be an aspect of God's awareness.
The above two universes have a dynamic relationship, that is different for every person, and changing for every person moment by moment.
I will leave here with this one idea. If I or you wasn't/weren't here to listen to "Here, There and Everywhere" by the Beatles, of what value would it have? Or, some other form of art that blows you away?
We each may be God's way of experiencing, up close and personal, some unique aspect of this amazingly complex, beautiful and detailed Universe. For me, at this point in my "evolution", I am trying to do THAT the best I can. While also recognizing that EVERY OTHER separate thing is simply some other version of myself, just at a different point in space and time along the unfolding of this Universe (God's Creation). And each deserves complete tolerance, respect, and love. Of course, it would sure be nice if some of them would eventually come to also grant such tolerance, respect, and love to all others. But, their failure or refusal in that regard is no excuse for me not to.
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Very nice, Gadfly...V-E-R-Y N-I-C-E...thank you.
I've pretty well spent my active synapse coins for the day so I’ll just respond briefly and provide a Link to a posts I made awhile back that you may or may not have seen.
My “Take” is that we are all on our own path. Our paths “intersect” with the paths of others. When this happens, others are as “guests” along our pathway and we along theirs. Not all guests are “good” guests and not all treat others as “guests” but, if one acts as a “guest” and “host”, then the pathway is more well defined, found and followed from the “Rocks” that define the edges, the “Lights” that illuminate the way and the “Signposts” that show us which turns to take—in short, our guests.
Yep, that's for sure!
To paraphrase a Lyric by Bernie Taupin...all of Us are “Artists” that “Paint” with our “Eyes”.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=445713&postcount=3626
Face
Thanks, Gaddie.
I forgot to say that i very much agree with this from you;
"It is from that notion that Ghandi said, "be the change you want to see in the world".
For some reason, God doesn't seem to put much stock in you finding your way back to Him/Her unless you do it through your OWN hard work! "
Face
I got your intention, because in the quote of my original post you highlighted those lines in different colors!
I went back to my original post and put one of them in BOLD, because, I also agree that they are especially meaningful. To me, and apparently to you too.
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... Also, from a theoretical Scientology view, implants function in that way. If enough spiritual beings are implanted with the same set of considerations, which sink down into deep subconscious levels, then these billions and trillions (and many more) beings will "see" a shared reality based on the content of the implants. I don't believe that, but simply threw out a possibility that might align with other Scientology ideas (which also may or may not be true). ...
There is a line to be drawn. ... While it "may" be a mock-up, in a Vedic sense, or in some final sense even for each of us, it is, for the most part, NOT amenable to change by any of us. For instance, I can't bring the Sun a few billion miles closer, or decrease the force of gravity (for self or others). Actually, I have lost all concern for even imagining such a personal power. The desire for amazing powers says more about the person doing the desiring than much of anything else.
Really, who wants to bestow "unlimited powers and abilities" on a severely flawed human being who isn't at all yet anywhere near being able to "love all equally and unconditionally". That would be like putting the detonator to a nuclear device into the hands of a baby. I see the idea of giving "OT Powers" to imbecilic Scientologists in exactly the same way. There is far too little "moral substance" to monitor and control the responsibility of such powers. Luckily, I think there are built-in safeguards. One cannot REALLY ever expand in "powers" without first greatly reducing ego, sense of "self", and expanding ones sense of "self" OUT into and over all Creation.
...
This over-attention on "OT abilities" is similar to eastern tricksters who, instead of staying on the path to God & compassion, get side-tracked and instead get all worked up about "making things happen", "controlling others", "manipulating perceptions through subtle hypnotic techniques", "creating illusions seen by others", and so forth. The desire to gain these things is a FLAW. It is a weakness in character. In a certain sense, Scientology actually feeds on that weakness.
It seems that some people have "natural abilities" to read minds, or sense subtle events and situations. There is no consistency, and despite many efforts, there does not seem to "yet" be any successful methods to develop and improve these "skills". The various governments of the world have spent lots of money trying.
...There is MUCH truth to the Einsteinian notion that the "state of the observer" very much affects the perceptions and experiences of WHAT is observed. That doesn't mean that the observer "creates" the universe around itself, BUT HOW it sees this universe is VERY MUCH dependent on the "state" of the observer.
In other words, for any finite observer, the experience of the universe has FAR LESS to do with "the nature of the universe" than on "how YOU are looking".
...
I can give an endless, near-infinite amount of examples. The DETAILS of HOW and WHY any person feels and "sees" so many things about the world around him or her are defined by the "state of the observer". Anyone who denies this is unwilling to take the time and work necessary for some sincere examination of self and others.
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And, once you do, you "see the world differently or even newly", and your experience actually CHANGES. It can be no other way. Einstein was entirely right. Somebody needs to write a book on how his theories relate to human psychology and experience.
It is quite simple. ALL EXPERIENCES OF THIS UNIVERSE ARE FINITE AND RELATIVE, BASED ENTIRELY ON WHO IS DOING THE LOOKING AND HOW ONE IS LOOKING. WHAT and HOW you see and experience is TOTALLY based on YOU. Hubbard talks on and on about the "thetan" and the "viewpoint". Well, I know this will be sad for some, but "individuality" is the BIG LIE. All individuality is fleeting, temporary, and is subject to the CHANGE of the CYCLES. When one actually lets go of the "ego", all sense of "personal" vanishes with it.
There is a reason why studies of "mystics" and "mystical experiences" continue to display feelings of "a breakdown of all separation", and "oneness with all-that-is". The personal goes away.
If people get "better lives" with Scientology, it will mostly be because Scientology has functioned in a way to CHANGE basic agreements and considerations. Scientology does NOT operate outside the rules of the relativity of experience as defined by Einstein. Whenever any person joins some new religion or group, he or she usually receives a whole new pattern of "ideas", and along with various practices, comes to change his or her mind about all sorts of things. When the mind changes, as far as agreements and considerations go, THEN so change the perceptions and experiences of the Universe around this mind.
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The state of mind of any person precedes and determines the experience (at least within the fixed framework of the Universe).
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If you think that this isn't so, then you haven't taken any time to examine how it is so, and how it is so every minute of every day for every conscious human being. Your beliefs, attitudes, and notions DEFINE you, and determine HOW you experience the world around you. Simply, if you want to change the world around you, as YOU experience it (within the fixed framework of physical reality), then just change your mind! It really IS that easy. All naysayers to the contrary.
And, then there is the much larger aspect of how do all of these tiny points of awareness (you and me) connect up to and relate to whatever created the Universe? I suspect that it is in THIS REALM that truly "magickal powers arise", where one begins to be able to "bend the laws of Nature". But, as I see it, it has a built in self-protect mechanism.
When one can actually get to a point where you "know God" on some direct level of experience, your state of mind will have changed so much from that of the average human, that you won't and don't care AT ALL about "making things happen", or "influencing situations at a distance". Your only care is to extend love and compassion, as best as you care, from your station in life, to help other people reduce their pain and suffering. And, NOT to make the "able more able"! THAT idea is another major flaw of the Scientology philosophy.
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This over-attention and concern for OT powers is a diversion. It is a waste of time, time that could be better devoted to something actually useful (to others). I know I view it as a waste of time in a certain part of my life. I would suspect that, despite any and all claims to the contrary, that nearly ALL desires for "OT abilities" stem from "ego" concerns.
To me, legitimate spiritual practices address and diminish the human ego, as a necessary part of "growing" into a "larger consciousness". When the "ego" goes, so do most or all desires for things like "special powers" and "OT abilities". Granted, it makes sense to me that some few along a "pure path" might get certain powers, but not as any desired or intended result.
The concept of "ego-reduction" is entirely absent from the Scientology philosophy. To a large extent, involvement with Scientology often acts to create a puffed-up, arrogant, know-best "Scientology personality" (just another version of more "ego"). In that regard, I find it largely flawed, and thus disqualified as a "legitimate spiritual path". ..
The fact of implants is clear and their presence ubiquitous. They need not rise to the level of 'pain drug hypnosis' that LRH expounds upon at such length. All human cultures seek to inculcate their fixed considerations and belief systems through 'implants'. They call it 'education', or 'instilling moral & religious values', or some other such euphemism but what it is is the implanting of the existing fixed attitudes & considerations common to a group to new members and reinforcement of the same within the existing membership.
Even the use of pain, drugs, & forms of hypnosis are not unknown. Military bootcamp is intended to breakdown and refashion an individual to reflect the military culture by extended exposure to pain & stress. Many groups use drugs to induce agreements or to reinforce existing group agreements among members.
Implants are real enough. Although, not necessarily those with which LRH was so preeminently preoccupied.
Mark A. Baker
I thought of all of that when writing this, but my post was already too "long". :confused2: ...