Other People Getting Critical

[cinamingrl]

I wanted to write about this particular issue. The issue with other people getting critical with me about my working for the c of s. I've had to put up with several people in my life, since I've left, who love to be critical of me, and it. It doesn't happen a lot, but not too long ago I had to deal with my stepmother's rudeness and questioning attitude about the c of s. Really, I have no idea how she even knew I used to work in an org, because my dad wasn't even married to her at the time I was on staff. He had a different wife at that time, who was not critical of the c of s.

And so here is my question; how to answer people when they get critical of the fact that you were a scientologist. People have said things like "I just wonder what is so great about it, with all of the movie stars joining it"? that is what the stepmother said, and it wasn't in a very nice tone. I now do not feel like it's any of her business, and know now that she isn't asking me because she really wants to know, but more because she wants to put me down. But when people pose questions to you, what do you say back to them?

I remember that when she asked me I began explaining to her the idea of overts and withholds. And I used an example of two people being married and one of the leaving the marriage because of doing something to the other, and that it's called "individuation". She literally got up from the chair she was sitting in and skulked out the door, got into her car and drove off somewhere. She does that when she gets upset, kinda like the phenomena of blowing. She left the area. I sat there and watched her leave. She's a freaking weirdo.

 

[klidov]

My opinion?

She needs to grow-up, and you do not need to explain yourself to anyone.

 

[Tim Skog]

Cinamingrl, Sounds you like you handled her just fine. Hell, she left. If someone wants to play mind games with me I'll use sarcasm, or whatever is appropriate to let them know that I am not interested in their game. I think you did fine. Handle 'em one nail at a time.

Tim

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Cinamingrl,
As one Neil Young fan to another (I think), when I'm asked I say why I really joined. I was idealistic and I wanted to improve the conditions of mankind. Then I saw that wasn't the way. I was brainwashed at first and then I worked through it.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Once bitten]

Ditto

The very reason I joined as well.

Thought we could make a difference and all we made a difference to was how much $$ went into Flag's coffers

 

[KnightVision]

I wanted to write about this particular issue. The issue with other people getting critical with me about my working for the c of s. I've had to put up with several people in my life, since I've left, who love to be critical of me, and it. It doesn't happen a lot, but not too long ago I had to deal with my stepmother's rudeness and questioning attitude about the c of s. Really, I have no idea how she even knew I used to work in an org, because my dad wasn't even married to her at the time I was on staff. He had a different wife at that time, who was not critical of the c of s.

And so here is my question; how to answer people when they get critical of the fact that you were a scientologist. People have said things like "I just wonder what is so great about it, with all of the movie stars joining it"? that is what the stepmother said, and it wasn't in a very nice tone. I now do not feel like it's any of her business, and know now that she isn't asking me because she really wants to know, but more because she wants to put me down. But when people pose questions to you, what do you say back to them?

I remember that when she asked me I began explaining to her the idea of overts and withholds. And I used an example of two people being married and one of the leaving the marriage because of doing something to the other, and that it's called "individuation". She literally got up from the chair she was sitting in and skulked out the door, got into her car and drove off somewhere. She does that when she gets upset, kinda like the phenomena of blowing. She left the area. I sat there and watched her leave. She's a freaking weirdo.

Hi Cin,

I'll give you my own two cents worth and maybe it can help...:confused2:


These are the times... people with hidden criticisms are coming out of the closet about Scientology; to that effect much of it is good and overdue. In terms of your experience with the step mom... I get that type of question off and on, and I also sense that some think that since I fell for a brainwashing scam that I must be gullable (as if they haven't in one way or another ) anyway I explain to them in simple terms what happened and how the Scn. is really quite extrodinarily effective at taking advantage of people like that. I point out that although I made the mistake of getting so deeply involved... I did eventually see the light and that I learned a tremendous lesson and am now far more educated about this topic than 95% of the population; and I'm now very keen on how some of these processes are used broadly throughout the business and political arenas.

Just that little bit has always worked for me. And I often find that the person asking the questions realizes that they are talking to someone who knows things that even they themselves have found perplexing.

That's if I want to talk about it; meaning that I'm ready to talk about it. If not then I politely say so.

That she's your stepmother... there may be other relationship issues that are causing her to ask you about it in a critical manner. Then again (just a possibility) are you just be hearing it that way, if you're feeling critical of yourself as regards your involvement; or is it a combination of issues? Or is she just a mean Bitch? Only you can know the answer...

When you mentioned that you told her about marriage problems... I'm not clear about why you would want to bring that up? But I could construe that perhaps she felt like you were attacking her and suggesting that there's problems with her marriage...???

Anyway- thats my pitch: Politely say no OR know what I want to say and relate something simple, concise and that leaves it on a strong note... i.e. I PREVAILED AND AM ONE SMART COOKIE NOW!!

Yours,

kV

 

[gomorrhan]

What I tell people is the unvarnished truth. I was interested for my own reasons, such as helping others come to enlightenment, and attaining the same, myself. When they ask why I chose scientology, I tell them the truth. I was excited by the prospect of an organized, systematic method of helping an individual to cease limiting themselves and create a better world to live in. When they ask me why I left, I tell them it's because I started realizing we weren't creating a better world, that scientology was riddled with contradictions between what was promoted as the dream, and what was delivered in reality.

However, it's true that you don't have to feel like you must explain yourself or your interests to others. If you do so, and I do, it's as a service to the other person, and not something that you owe them. Everyone who knows me, really, knows my story and my reasons. I've only met a few people in my life who would have done what I did. I don't need people's agreement, though, or their admiration or respect. I have my own. It's NICE when people understand, but it's not necessary. I've learned that with most people, those that ask casually, at this point, it's best for me to just say "that was a long time ago, and I wouldn't do it the same today as I did when I was 19, or when I was 25".

 

[cinamingrl]

~~~

Thanks everyone.

It just seems that the usual way that people ask me about it is extremely critical and as if they are picking an argument. My mother is the other one who would constantly want to pick at me about it. And when I refused to talk to her about it, she just went all over telling other people about my being "in a cult". Even people who were not good friends with her. People like the woman who owned the fabric store where she bought all her quilting fabric. Anybody who would listen to her mouth heard the story of her oldest daughter being "in a cult". Except that once I left the story changed to her oldest daughter "escaping from a cult".

I guess what it all comes down to, for me, is that I am critical of anybody now who asks me about my experience being a scientologist. Because of being attacked by these women. It's made me also realize that my father marries very immature and dumb women.

I can recall that the reason I was so interested in being around an org, was that everybody was clean. Nobody was on drugs or drinking. And I loved that, considering that my then husband was a drug addict and the kind of people that he attracted into our lives and our home, were.....for lack of a better word...........degraded beings. All I wanted at one point in my life, was to live a cleaner life. And it seemed to be there at the org. I do miss this aspect of it. The idea that one does not need to "go unconscious" to relate to others or to socialize.

 

[ScudMuffin]

Personal Opinion: they're bang out of line. I've had family members in a cult (at least 3 brought up in one with anonther who's in with a lot atm) and criticising them for being in one at one point or another is out of order. Actions...that's one thing but people are suckered in, that's not their fault and it's certainly not yours for having been in SCN.

My advice is to tell it for what it is, a destructive and abusive organisation that dupes people by praying on their emotions so they can get as much cash out of them as possible.

I wanted to write about this particular issue. The issue with other people getting critical with me about my working for the c of s. I've had to put up with several people in my life, since I've left, who love to be critical of me, and it. It doesn't happen a lot, but not too long ago I had to deal with my stepmother's rudeness and questioning attitude about the c of s. Really, I have no idea how she even knew I used to work in an org, because my dad wasn't even married to her at the time I was on staff. He had a different wife at that time, who was not critical of the c of s.

And so here is my question; how to answer people when they get critical of the fact that you were a scientologist. People have said things like "I just wonder what is so great about it, with all of the movie stars joining it"? that is what the stepmother said, and it wasn't in a very nice tone. I now do not feel like it's any of her business, and know now that she isn't asking me because she really wants to know, but more because she wants to put me down. But when people pose questions to you, what do you say back to them?

I remember that when she asked me I began explaining to her the idea of overts and withholds. And I used an example of two people being married and one of the leaving the marriage because of doing something to the other, and that it's called "individuation". She literally got up from the chair she was sitting in and skulked out the door, got into her car and drove off somewhere. She does that when she gets upset, kinda like the phenomena of blowing. She left the area. I sat there and watched her leave. She's a freaking weirdo.

 

[gomorrhan]

Yes, that is one attractive aspect of being around so many scientologists: you can relate about and through things other than drugs or alcohol. One valuable thing I took away from it is that I learned how to communicate with anyone about anything they are interested in (using ARC). The Church wanted us to ONLY use these communication skills to disseminate scientology, but they are useful skills in any aspect of life.

You can still find clean-living people outside the Church, I've found. Many yoga practitioners are clean-living, though I've met a few who smoked the huber and did psychedelics, but generally, it's a nutrition and fitness and clear-thinking crowd. Tennis is like that, too.

 

[cinamingrl]

~~~

Yes, that is one attractive aspect of being around so many scientologists: you can relate about and through things other than drugs or alcohol. One valuable thing I took away from it is that I learned how to communicate with anyone about anything they are interested in (using ARC). The Church wanted us to ONLY use these communication skills to disseminate scientology, but they are useful skills in any aspect of life.

You can still find clean-living people outside the Church, I've found. Many yoga practitioners are clean-living, though I've met a few who smoked the huber and did psychedelics, but generally, it's a nutrition and fitness and clear-thinking crowd. Tennis is like that, too.

Oh yah, one thing I decided to do for my new year's resolution was to learn yoga. But as yet I have not even started.

As far as drugs and stuff, I usually cut ties with people when I find out they are using.

 

[gomorrhan]

Depends on the drug, with me. When people are using heroin or crack, I'm polite, but don't offer any access to my living space or details about who I am. I've found users of these drugs to have huge problems, and either to dump them on me, without any intention of solving them, or to "solve" them by stealing from me or manipulating my personal information in a way that amounts to theft or graft.

When people use pot, or psychedelics, that doesn't bother me at all. Heavy drinkers I avoid, but don't cut contact with. Speed-freaks can be annoying, but I've found them reliable and honest, for the most part. Perhaps I'm naive there, but my experience with them has been pretty extensive (including meth-heads), and I haven't found these people to be dangerous, other than that they worry about things that either don't exist or don't have the importance they are assigning to them.

Basically, it's a case-by-case thing. If a person is cool, I'm not going to delve into their drug use. If a guy is nodding off in conversation, or even mid-sentence, then I have no use for them, whether they are on drugs or not. That sort of thing.

 

[cinamingrl]

~~~

Depends on the drug, with me. When people are using heroin or crack, I'm polite, but don't offer any access to my living space or details about who I am. I've found users of these drugs to have huge problems, and either to dump them on me, without any intention of solving them, or to "solve" them by stealing from me or manipulating my personal information in a way that amounts to theft or graft.

When people use pot, or psychedelics, that doesn't bother me at all. Heavy drinkers I avoid, but don't cut contact with. Speed-freaks can be annoying, but I've found them reliable and honest, for the most part. Perhaps I'm naive there, but my experience with them has been pretty extensive (including meth-heads), and I haven't found these people to be dangerous, other than that they worry about things that either don't exist or don't have the importance they are assigning to them.

Basically, it's a case-by-case thing. If a person is cool, I'm not going to delve into their drug use. If a guy is nodding off in conversation, or even mid-sentence, then I have no use for them, whether they are on drugs or not. That sort of thing.

Well not me. AFter being married to an addict I have not one bit of patience for any of them. It isn't a particular drug that I am looking at, it's the addictive personality. People have addictive brains, not everyone. I don't have an addict's mind. But my x did. And if they quit one drug, they replace it with either another drug, or another habit.....gambling, sex whatever. Sometimes they can get clean and then you find out that they are hiding another really heavy addiction like porn or something. So really, once I find out someone is this way, it's hard for me to have anything do do with them.

I have a female friend who was a heroin addict for 15 years, went to prison and is now clean. but I wonder about her. We've been pretty close for about a year. She even helped me move into my apartment here. She is a loyal kind of person. But I am still untrusting. Not that I think she would steal from me. But at one time she was arrested for armed robbery. She would hold up liquor or gas stations for her habit. And she talks about prison as if it's something that everyone does. It's weird.

 

[gomorrhan]

Personality problems, such as "addictive personality disorder" or that sort of thing, aren't "real" to me. I know that they have been accepted in DSM-IV, but I have serious problems with that compendium.

Certainly there are people who seem to be looking to "fill the void" with something or another.

I guess I think that everyone has an addictive personality: you find something you feel entertains or fills you up, and you do that thing. With some people it's something "positive" (work, exercise, reading, etc.), with others it's something "negative" (drugs, porn [you seem to think that's bad, so I include it here], ocd stuff [hand-washing, cutting, ritual behavior]).

If something you're doing seems to get in the way of achieving your goals, or makes you feel unhappy, then that thing is probably "negative", and doing it may seem unexplainable. I've found there's always some reason, and those reasons can be explored and handled (frequently) in session. Sometimes, though, people just need something to do, make a new friend, and the "negatives" fall away. Sometimes the "negatives" are so ingrained that it would require almost shocking change to handle them (moving to a new environment, new job, new friends, etc.)

 

[cinamingrl]

~~~

Personality problems, such as "addictive personality disorder" or that sort of thing, aren't "real" to me. I know that they have been accepted in DSM-IV, but I have serious problems with that compendium.

Uh huh, I used to think that way too, while I was still involved with a cult. Sometimes I still think that the psychology community actually gives excuses for people being crazy and having drug or psychological issues. Even the way it gives crazy people "protection" in our society. I heard there is something called the "McCullough Law". I have serious problems with that kind of thing too. Crazy people who harm others are allowed to get away with a lot.

Certainly there are people who seem to be looking to "fill the void" with something or another.

I guess I think that everyone has an addictive personality: you find something you feel entertains or fills you up, and you do that thing. With some people it's something "positive" (work, exercise, reading, etc.), with others it's something "negative" (drugs, porn [you seem to think that's bad, so I include it here], ocd stuff [hand-washing, cutting, ritual behavior]).

If something you're doing seems to get in the way of achieving your goals, or makes you feel unhappy, then that thing is probably "negative", and doing it may seem unexplainable. I've found there's always some reason, and those reasons can be explored and handled (frequently) in session. Sometimes, though, people just need something to do, make a new friend, and the "negatives" fall away. Sometimes the "negatives" are so ingrained that it would require almost shocking change to handle them (moving to a new environment, new job, new friends, etc.)

Yah once I was talking to a woman who was in the process of getting her psychology license, had just spent alot of years in college, was all full of herself and I had an issue with the way she related to me. She even tried to tell me that she had scientologist friends. I didn't believe her, as usually scientologist will have nothing to do with psychologists and such. She made a dismissive comment, something like "oh yah, I have scientologist friends. I just tell them you have your beliefs and I have mine, hahahaha!" She was being very very glib. I think she must have heard someone say something like that at some time in her studies, who was a person with a psychology degree or who maybe had their own practice and she thought it sounded cool, so she repeated it when I told her I'd been a scientologist at one time. She offended me very much. She'd always appear to spend all of her energy on people who clearly didn't want help. And she just seemed to love those who had "obsessive compulsive disorders" such as being overly concerned with other's cleanliness but their own personal hygiene was atrocious. And so when I mentioned to her that her very job and that for her, making a living depended upon people's craziness, she just went rigid. I went on to say that for me, it isn't an issue of a person's "brain chemistry", but more that these people just need to stop what they are doing and get on with their lives. And that I didn't believe all of the hype about "addictive" minds. Her entire demeanor just went into rigidity. She just sat there and shook her head at me and then said that there are "Studies" about people's "brain chemistry". And that it has been proven that there is such a thing, and that this is why people have these disorders. I merely said that of course she needs to believe this, and so do her patients, or else how could she make a living. If there weren't all of these "disorders" and "brain chemistries" that she would not have patients, who would pay her, so she could make a living. And so that I didn't expect her to believe me. And I think I also tried saying that what is true for her isn't true for me. As I do not go around abusing drugs, acting compulsive or worrying about cleanliness, I have not enough time to do this.

People who are so into the psychology world just love mental illness. And they look upon those who question it as....well I am not sure how they look at us. But I know that it makes them uncomfortable. I think I even brought up this subject in a Health class in college few years ago. I said that the "psychiatric" community allows the mentally ill to collect money from the government, and live off the money. And all they have to do is go to a doctor, get a diagnosis for a mental illness, and then the rest of their lives they can live off government money, not have to worry about holding a job, paying rent and everything else that we normal people worry about. My teacher said out loud that I sound like a Republican.

 

[StoveBolts]

Cinamingrl,

I've got the exact opposite! I find that most people have never even heard of $cientology or if they have, they really don't know much about it.

Case in point. I've got the Scientology symbol (ARC / KRC triangles with the linkng S) tattooed on me and people don't even know what it is!

My Dad was pretty cool about me being in, and so was a good friend of mine who's a therapist. (http://www.chriscrutcher.com/) Dad told me when I left, “Keep the good, and throw the rest of the crap where it belongs”. Great advice btw.

Now then, there are those I've told and one thing I've learned, is not to start explaining terms w/ concepts to them. In other words, you can tell somebody the concept of overts and witholds without using those terms and present it as good ole common sense.

 

[thetanic]

When people use pot, or psychedelics, that doesn't bother me at all. Heavy drinkers I avoid, but don't cut contact with.

Depends on quantity, too. I have some friends that do the occasional drug party (two to four times a year), and whatever. Not my thing, but I'm not going to cut them loose.

Drinking can be very problematic, so I tend to avoid people who drink more than one glass of wine a day.

 

[gomorrhan]

I have no bias against "people in the psychology world". I consider them my brothers: we were both interested in helping people deal with their issues, we just learned different methods of doing so, probably with different definitions of help, as well.

There are people who abuse any system they are part of, and there are enablers in every field. Psychologists or psychiatrists who abuse the system exist, and the pharma companies encourage it, as do some government agencies. It's not all bad, though. There are good people in all of these companies, agencies and fields. There are also corrupt people and windbags with no real knowledge.

Of course, the same could be said of ex-cultists.

 

[cinamingrl]

~~~

Cinamingrl,

I've got the exact opposite! I find that most people have never even heard of $cientology or if they have, they really don't know much about it.

Case in point. I've got the Scientology symbol (ARC / KRC triangles with the linkng S) tattooed on me and people don't even know what it is!

My Dad was pretty cool about me being in, and so was a good friend of mine who's a therapist. (http://www.chriscrutcher.com/) Dad told me when I left, “Keep the good, and throw the rest of the crap where it belongs”. Great advice btw.

Now then, there are those I've told and one thing I've learned, is not to start explaining terms w/ concepts to them. In other words, you can tell somebody the concept of overts and witholds without using those terms and present it as good ole common sense.

Yah my mother used to say, "too much of anything is bad", and "take what you need and leave the rest".

 

[Zinjifar]

Yah my mother used to say, "too much of anything is bad", and "take what you need and leave the rest".

All things in moderation; including moderation

Zinj