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Veda

Sponsor
Without getting into this discussion - and just clarify two terms, Policy and Ethics (This also relates to another ongoing thread where these terms have been used):

In Scientology, per the "tight conspiracy" (Hubbard's term) model that Scientology's founder created in the 1960s, there is policy (selected - to be promoted to wogs, raw meat, and public - items, from the Green Volumes and other places, such as 'The Way to Happiness' booklet, etc.), and Policy (in the Green Volumes), and then there is POLICY (not in the Green Volumes, confidential HCOPLs), and then there is P_O_L_I_C_Y (which is not in the form of Hubbard Communication Office Policy Letters, and are instructions directly from L. Ron Hubbard at the highly confidential level. These instructions cover finance, Intelligence, Propaganda, PR, Sea Org matters, legal, and anything about which Hubbard chose to pontificate in his highly confidential writings and taped briefings.)

So, when a Scientologist says, "Policy," what does he or she mean?

What does it mean when a rank-and-file foot-soldier-level Scientologist say, "Policy"?

Similarly, what does it mean when a rank-and-file foot-soldier-level Scientologist says, "ethics"? It certainly doesn't mean ethics in the non-Scientology sense, as in "wog ethics."

In Scientology, "ethics" has as many shades of meaning as does "Policy."

Most Scientologists have only partial knowledge of what the doctrine (subject matter or full materials) of Scientology actually is, and have an incomplete notion of "Scientology ethics" determined by their position in the stratified secret doctrine and operation of Scientology.

This makes discussing Scientology with Scientologists difficult.

Those who do have a complete view of the subject, of which David Miscavige and - possibly - Marty Rathbun are two examples, are not talking - at least publicly. The are covering up.
 

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
Sorry Kha Khan but that's all bullshit.

This is misduplication and misapplication of Scientology.

This is hell and this isn't what LRH wanted.

Senior Policy is delivering what is promised and what we're witnessing here is the manifestation of a dying cult.
There is nothing inconsistent between the supposed "senior policy" of "delivering what is promised" and my my analysis of Scientology statistics.

And calling my analysis "bullshit" is not an argument. And doesn't make it so. And, quite frankly, is simply name calling.

No, I did not "misduplicate" (wonderfully stupid cult word, that) Scientology. What I described is precisely how statistics are measured and used in Scientology. What I described is precisely the incentive structure of Scientology.

The sad truth is this. What Scientologists are taught and use as statistics is what is taught to grade school children. Drawing lines on graph paper? Trying not to get the scale too screwed up? Pathetic.

And insisting the line go up every week, regardless of the economy? And if it doesn't finding the mythical "why?" Or the "SP?" Stupid.

What Scientologists are taught and use as statistics people actually educated in statistics would laugh at. Consideration of variance? No. Sample size? No? Consideration of:

* Analysis of variance (ANOVA)
* Chi-square test
* Correlation
* Factor analysis
* Mann–Whitney U
* Mean square weighted deviation (MSWD)
* Pearson product-moment correlation coefficient
* Regression analysis
* Spearman's rank correlation coefficient
* Student's t-test
* Time series analysis

No.

Why do you think they had to kill the Old Man for?
Evidence? Or just another wild, unsupported conspiracy theory?

/
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

how statistics are measured and used in Scientology.

-snip-

The sad truth is this. What Scientologists are taught and use as statistics is what is taught to grade school children. Drawing lines on graph paper? Trying not to get the scale too screwed up? Pathetic.

And insisting the line go up every week, regardless of the economy? And if it doesn't finding the mythical "why?" Or the "SP?" Stupid.

-snip-

Usually, per the Hubbard's model for Scientology http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg , there is a hidden reason for something.

The idea of requiring constantly rising stats, and penalizing lack of constantly rising stats, seems entirely kooky, and no doubt it is. However, the question arises, "Is there any reason behind it? What does it accomplish?"

Well, it certainly keeps the worker bees of Scientology frantic and ever worried about their status in the group - with brief periods of reassuring validation for being "up stats" - and does encourage "production" to an extent.

It certainly encourages cash flow "up lines" at any cost. (PR flaps can be smoothed over later. And having huge sums of money in overseas bank accounts helps with ones ability to handle things in the long run, so the thinking goes.)

It serves to create a permanent "condensed time emergency" for the average worker ant (or bee) Scientologist (again with brief periods of "FNing" validation to reinforce being "up stat").

Peeking behind the Scientological curtain, these quotes from Hubbard's 'Textbook on Psycho(logical)-politics' (note - This term has nothing to do with theories of the CIA, etc. running Scientology. It's just a term, first used by Hubbard in 1955, and which describes HIS creation.):

"A psycho-political operative [Scientology]... can more and more operate in an atmosphere of emergency, which again excuses the use of [extreme measures]...

"Any organization which has the spirit and courage to display inhumanity, savageness, brutality, and uncompromising lack of humanity, will be obeyed..."

Compare this to the opening lines of the 7 March 'Suppressive acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists, the Fair Game Law':

"Due to the extreme urgency of our mission I have worked to remove some of the fundamental barriers to our progress...

"Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce or impede Scientology...

"[Suppressive Persons] place themselves beyond any consideration for their feelings or well being...

"The homes, property... [including bank accounts] of persons who have been active in attempting to suppress Scientology [by not fully supporting Scientology]... are all beyond any protection.

"...no rights of any kind..."

Some more from Hubbard's "Textbook":

"A certain amount of fear or terror must be engendered in the person under treatment [being indoctrinated, and controlled] so that this person will take immediate orders, completely and unquestioningly..."

And:

"In rearranging the person's loyalties we must have command of their values. In the animal [person] the first loyalty is to himself. This is destroyed by demonstrating errors in him, showing him that [without Scientology] he does not remember, cannot not act and does not trust himself [having a reactive mind, evil purposes, and having been implanted, etc.] The second loyalty is the family unit... This is destroyed by lessening the value of marriage, and by making an easiness of divorce, and raising the children whenever possible by the state [Scientology]. The next loyalty is to his friends and local environment. This is destroyed by lowering his trust and bringing about reportings ['Knowledge Reports'] upon him allegedly by his fellows... the next is to the State [Scientology] and this, for the purposes of Communism [Scientology], is the only loyalty that should exist..."

Without dragging this out, one can get the feel for how Hubbard envisioned Scientology being run, at its behind-the-scenes - away from the view of wogs and raw meat - level.

"Stats" keep the pressure on, are an excuse for the reward/punishment (with emphasis on punishment, fear of punishment) system, with avoidance of "thinking" or reflecting (nattering/self-auditing, etc.) as one is in a permanent (with occasion brief "validating" time-outs for "cooperation" and being "up stat") condensed time emergency.
 

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
Those reg cycles are really not an Ideal Scene!

They obviously did not use enough pressure to close her and get a check.
Yes, the Sea 0rg members were guilty of suppressive reasonableness. They were not at cause. They did not make it go right.

And if as a result their stats for the week are down they must be assigned the appropriate condition and have their liberty canceled.

Who says so? DM? Yes. But more importantly, LRH says so. The Tech demands it. Anyone who says else wise is lying -- perhaps first to themselves.

/
 

JBTrendy

Patron with Honors
Statistics

There is nothing inconsistent between the supposed "senior policy" of "delivering what is promised" and my my analysis of Scientology statistics.

And calling my analysis "bullshit" is not an argument. And doesn't make it so. And, quite frankly, is simply name calling.

No, I did not "misduplicate" (wonderfully stupid cult word, that) Scientology. What I described is precisely how statistics are measured and used in Scientology. What I described is precisely the incentive structure of Scientology.

The sad truth is this. What Scientologists are taught and use as statistics is what is taught to grade school children. Drawing lines on graph paper? Trying not to get the scale too screwed up? Pathetic.

And insisting the line go up every week, regardless of the economy? And if it doesn't finding the mythical "why?" Or the "SP?" Stupid.

What Scientologists are taught and use as statistics people actually educated in statistics would laugh at. Consideration of variance? No. Sample size? No? Consideration of:

* Analysis of variance (ANOVA)
* Chi-square test
* Correlation
* Factor analysis
* Mann–Whitney U
* Mean square weighted deviation (MSWD)
* Pearson product-moment correlation coefficient
* Regression analysis
* Spearman's rank correlation coefficient
* Student's t-test
* Time series analysis

No.

Evidence? Or just another wild, unsupported conspiracy theory?

/

OK obviously you need me to explain my viewpoint. Fine with me.

You're just over simplifying the whole subject of stats in Scientology management. Stats are not only looked at and analysed on a day to day basis and the more you are up on the org board the longer the range is to analyse them.

Stats are just a way to measure things and shouldn't be stressed the way they are by frantic and off policy staffs.

Your ressentment about them shows a high button on control and a willigness to avoid production.

It's understandable for someone who doesn't want people to go up the bridge.

This isn't my case though I'm aware that this all system falling in evil hands can become as we're witnessing it totally destructive.

But once again this isn't true Scientology and people here can say how stupid or naive I am this doesn't make it more true.

I know of LRH and about the Scientological onion theory.

That's all very fine but all it boils down to at the end of the day is: "This is the session" and what the end result of the process will be is all up to you my friend.

What really matters is whether or not the tech is working or not when correctly applied.

That's what was lost along the way and you are not obviously willing to help or contribute along that line.

That's your choice mate.

ALL2U :whistling::whistling::whistling:
 

nozeno

Gold Meritorious Patron
snip...
What really matters is whether or not the tech is working or not when correctly applied.

ALL2U :whistling::whistling::whistling:

Same shit different words.

Tech GOOD, management and DB's incorrectly applying tech or policy BAD.

Unfortunately you will never see it until you see it.

If the tech was so wonderful don't you think it would be effective in growing scientology? Show me the evidence that scientology has had any significant effect on society as a whole.

Oh, forget it, I don't even want to hear your answer because it will be bullshit anyway.

Wake the hell up.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
It's Nosferatu Tech.

nosferatu.jpg
 

JBTrendy

Patron with Honors
To Nozeno

snip...

Same shit different words.

Tech GOOD, management and DB's incorrectly applying tech or policy BAD.

Unfortunately you will never see it until you see it.

If the tech was so wonderful don't you think it would be effective in growing scientology? Show me the evidence that scientology has had any significant effect on society as a whole.

Oh, forget it, I don't even want to hear your answer because it will be bullshit anyway.

Wake the hell up.

Damn right!

Why bother anyway?

Would have Scientology grown if it wasn't for the Tech?

Now Scientology dies for a lack of Tech.

Plain and simple again.

But why bother anyway?

You obviously didn't get anything out of it.

Sorry but that's not my case.

Can you respect that?

:whistling::whistling::whistling:
 

nozeno

Gold Meritorious Patron
Damn right!

Why bother anyway?

Would have Scientology grown if it wasn't for the Tech?

Now Scientology dies for a lack of Tech.

Plain and simple again.

But why bother anyway?

You obviously didn't get anything out of it.

Sorry but that's not my case.

Can you respect that?

:whistling::whistling::whistling:

No.
 

Anonamus

New Member
Damn right!

Why bother anyway?

Would have Scientology grown if it wasn't for the Tech?

Now Scientology dies for a lack of Tech.

Plain and simple again.

But why bother anyway?

You obviously didn't get anything out of it.

Sorry but that's not my case.

Can you respect that?

:whistling::whistling::whistling:

Scientology dies because the 'tech' fails and the fail is exposed, finally!
At the same time, the ABUSIVE, criminal acts of management are exposed! Finally!
 

OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
Reg Cycles

My wife and I were regged by Teddy on the Freewinds, where we went to get married in 2003. It was the usual pressure, we just told them "no". Did not give them anything. In 2004, my wife went to MV, at the last minute they let "currently on OT VII's" on the MV to fill up the boat. This time, they got $8800 out of her. Total, we were Founding Patrons with Honors. That is now a light-weight status level. I was one of the first ten Patrons.
Here is my gut-level take on the current scene, including the IAS. The CofS is nearing "kool-aid time". There is some hidden data line from DM down his command channels, to build up the orgs NOW and reg tens of millions of IAS donos NOW for some anticipated catastrophe. Delivery is being minimized. The catastrophe will happen, all right. In the CofS. I think people who are still "in" need to be very light on their feet and ready to duck the coming sucker punch. Somebody is getting ready to bribe the Bulgravian police after extensive plastic surgery.
 

Div6

Crusader
My wife and I were regged by Teddy on the Freewinds, where we went to get married in 2003. It was the usual pressure, we just told them "no". Did not give them anything. In 2004, my wife went to MV, at the last minute they let "currently on OT VII's" on the MV to fill up the boat. This time, they got $8800 out of her. Total, we were Founding Patrons with Honors. That is now a light-weight status level. I was one of the first ten Patrons.
Here is my gut-level take on the current scene, including the IAS. The CofS is nearing "kool-aid time". There is some hidden data line from DM down his command channels, to build up the orgs NOW and reg tens of millions of IAS donos NOW for some anticipated catastrophe. Delivery is being minimized. The catastrophe will happen, all right. In the CofS. I think people who are still "in" need to be very light on their feet and ready to duck the coming sucker punch. Somebody is getting ready to bribe the Bulgravian police after extensive plastic surgery.

I think you are right about this....its almost like DM is showing how Scientology is GOING UP while Western Civilization collapses. Then set up the orgs as the new "civilization" centers and you run the joint.....

At least that is the plan. I dunno if we are going to have such a dramatic collapse.....and if we do, then more basic needs will take priority over the luxury of "philosophy".....
 

OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
yeah

...like eating! If you want to get a really depressing movie, rent "the Road" with Viggo Mortensen and Charlyse Theron. Post nuke war grim reality check.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
...like eating! If you want to get a really depressing movie, rent "the Road" with Viggo Mortensen and Charlyse Theron. Post nuke war grim reality check.

:omg: I never saw the film, but my eldest bought me the book :omg: It was an exercise in endurance - I just read it out of a sense of obligation :omg: When I finished it, he asked me what I thought of it. He said OK - I won't read it then :omg: He was testing it out on me :omg:
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've said it again and again ...

I think you are right about this....its almost like DM is showing how Scientology is GOING UP while Western Civilization collapses. Then set up the orgs as the new "civilization" centers and you run the joint.....

At least that is the plan. I dunno if we are going to have such a dramatic collapse.....and if we do, then more basic needs will take priority over the luxury of "philosophy".....

The Ideal Org program would make sense if DM had info and/or was being conned into believing, perhaps by some country's intel branch, that the big UFO landing was imminent. If "they" land, where else to go but a crazy UFO cult? They could even drop prices dramatically and get people in by the droves at that point. It's elther that or the Coolaide party and the Bulgravian Boogie.

Pete
 

Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
Church of Scientology OTVIII Reg Cycles -- KRs by OTVIII Mary Jo Leavitt

November 26, 2007 to RTC Reports Officer

Things that shouldn’t be IAS interview/Reg cycle Ted Bragin, Marion Vugger

I was in an IAS reg cycle last Saturday the 17th of November with Ted Bragin from the WUS Office.........


Tim Edwards is just a strong-arm financial thug without any charm, but Bragin is a goofball of epic proportions. He actually said to me and I quote, "...in Scientology, our God L.Ron Hubbard....." He's an OT8. So that's the EP? Big 5 star cog that ElRon is God? I flinched and looked real close at his face, ding dong :omg:, he was serious. Ted Bragin is a seriously deluded individual. Kookoo. It's pretty funny, especially since I've had that very conversation with the "exalted one" and told him exactly what I thought of him.

They're all liars and con artists, Marion, Edwards, Bragin, the lot of them, financial criminals. They'll say and do ANYTHING to separate you from your money.
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Senior policy

Sorry Kha Khan but that's all bullshit.

This is misduplication and misapplication of Scientology.

This is hell and this isn't what LRH wanted.

Senior Policy is delivering what is promised and what we're witnessing here is the manifestation of a dying cult.

Why do you think they had to kill the Old Man for?

:duh::duh::duh:

This is exact application of policy, and a clear continuation of the way things have been since about 1977 when prices went up at 5% per month to absurd levels.

The IAS is a criminal organization with no valuable final product.

Scientology has been operating on "make-a-crisis" since forever - there is always a hill 10 that needs donations to overcome now.

Hell is exactly what LRH created in the environment of the Sea Org and in his personal space, all the way to the end when he died of neglect and psychotic in a trailor in hiding.

Scientology cannot deliver what is promised. What is promised, OT VII as cause over life and the upper OT levels beyond that do not exist.

Some of the tech works. Some of the effects of auditing are beneficial. People are body-mind-spirit. That is true. This stuff was often developed by persons other than LRH despite his grabbing credit as source, or grabbed directly from other practices. This is documented and true

Much of Scientology is false and unworkable. Policy alone is 1960's organizational ideas and creates a psychotic and short-sighted view of the universe, Thursday-at-two to Thursday-at-two.
 
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