Panorama: Secrets of Scientology (Showing BBC1 28th Sept 2010 9pm UK)

bts2free

Patron with Honors
I agree with BTs2Free's definition: a device used to evaluate for the preclear.

There's a little more to what I meant by that, in that if you assign to the E-Meter that it's a "truth detector" that in itself is an evaluation to the PC (a big No No). Meaning that the PC could come up with god knows what, or the auditor could call god knows what, and if the E-Meter reads on it, or F/N's or whatever, that's supposed to now be considered "Truth?"

Other than the fact that all that really happened actually was resistance to the electric current. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

Wisened One

Crusader
Alanzo, most events in the federal court system are NOT secretive -- at least not AFTER an investigation has been concluded and criminal charges have been filed.

But in case you really mean that you "don't know why meetings with the FBI are not mentioned," here's why:

The FBI requires that informants and witnesses who participate in an ongoing confidential FBI investigation NOT publicize the investigation or its activities so as not to endanger the investigation.

And in a whistleblowers vs. CoS investigation where affidavits by eyewitnesses are regularly countered with affidavits by scores of staff members who swear the eyewitnesses are lying about allegations of crimes against persons, extortion, financial irregularities, etc., investigators' activities would need to be held quite closely. Wouldn't you agree?

Please understand I don't have any idea whether M&M are meeting the FBI for lunch every Wednesday or not. But to criticize M&M or anyone else for not blogging about their (theoretical) interactions with the FBI or other law enforcement agencies seems more than a bit disingenuous.

TG1

I agree.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
There's a little more to what I meant by that, in that if you assign to the E-Meter that it's a "truth detector" that in itself is an evaluation to the PC (a big No No). Meaning that the PC could come up with god knows what, or the auditor could call god knows what, and if the E-Meter reads on it, or F/N's or whatever, that's supposed to now be considered "Truth?"

Other than the fact that all that really happened actually was resistance to the electric current. Nothing more, nothing less.


Well, that's the way *Ron* used it too :) As a 'divination' device. So much is obvious from the transcripts of his 'sessions' with Mary Sue. And, the same use is made in 'dating' exercises, when the meter is used to 'confirm' some specific (fantasy) date/time.

I'd say the currently popular 'rational' explanation of the meter is more of a 'shore story'.

Add to it that the meter is also important as a stage prop to impress and distract the mark from what's being done to him.

Zinj
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
There's a little more to what I meant by that, in that if you assign to the E-Meter that it's a "truth detector" that in itself is an evaluation to the PC (a big No No). Meaning that the PC could come up with god knows what, or the auditor could call god knows what, and if the E-Meter reads on it, or F/N's or whatever, that's supposed to now be considered "Truth?"

Other than the fact that all that really happened actually was resistance to the electric current. Nothing more, nothing less.

Good point.
 

bts2free

Patron with Honors
Well, that's the way *Ron* used it too :) As a 'divination' device. So much is obvious from the transcripts of his 'sessions' with Mary Sue. And, the same use is made in 'dating' exercises, when the meter is used to 'confirm' some specific (fantasy) date/time.

I'd say the currently popular 'rational' explanation of the meter is more of a 'shore story'.

Add to it that the meter is also important as a stage prop to impress and distract the mark from what's being done to him.

Zinj

No doubt! And I think it's a good thing to point out what something really is, rather than add a whole bunch of hocus-pocus bullshit to it, which is what Hubbard did, and apparently what others seem to believe. Even when you do the Hubbard(R) E-Meter Course, that's what the materials about the E-Meter say it is - even in pictorial form. That Hubbard used it as a "Ouija entity reader" and Marty might use it as a stress reliever or truth detector, they're really just assuming that that's something they might actually do. But they really don't know. Where's the scientific proof for that? Or is that just based on "faith?"

So I guess Marty really wasn't adding a new definition to the E-Meter that wasn't already there? This was a tacit and assumed definition I suppose...
 

Veda

Sponsor
There's a little more to what I meant by that, in that if you assign to the E-Meter that it's a "truth detector" that in itself is an evaluation to the PC (a big No No). Meaning that the PC could come up with god knows what, or the auditor could call god knows what, and if the E-Meter reads on it, or F/N's or whatever, that's supposed to now be considered "Truth?"

Other than the fact that all that really happened actually was resistance to the electric current. Nothing more, nothing less.

Paraphrasing from Hubbard, from CC-OT 3 materials, "If it doesn't seen real to you, seeing the reads on the meter will convince you," etc. Scientologists are usually on pins and needles with excitement when they see their first "read" on their e-meters while looking at Hubbard's 'told to them' collection of incidents (theirs and/or "BTs"), and his elaborate detailed instructions such as (paraphrase) "to go by an unreading item (an item told to the solo auditor in his confidential materials) is deadly," etc.

See also, if curious, the snipped parts of the above old posts.

Marty, surrounded by acolytes is getting a little sloppy. He should have told Sweeney your explanation for meter reactions. "Truth detector" usually doesn't come to later (as one descends a little further into the Scientological Onion.) Even then, the term "truth detector" is not used that much, but that is how the meter is regarded, despite occasional PR denials.
 
T

TheSneakster

Guest
Trying to derail the Australian Commission hearings were a huge let down in terms of being able to trust these guys.

Not the slightest bit of documentation has yet been presented that Mike Rinder and/or Marty Rathbun ever attempted such a thing.

Carmel Underwood relayed hearsay from a mysterious "someone she trusts" and that's the entirety of the specious "evidence". So far, not even one person involved in the hearings has been named by anyone repeating this accusation who has confirmed that either Rinder or Rathbun tried to influence their decision either for or against!

Yet so many of you keep repeating this PR meme as if it were a true fact, despite the fact that I have pointed out your complete failure to verify it numerous times.

The Burden of Proof for this alleged fact still rests with you all.

Michael A. Hobson
I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forgive.

P.S. - I have asked Marty about it and been answered months ago. Since none of you seem to believe anything he says - unless it confirms your preconceived notions - I will not bother relaying it.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Anybody who has done more than a bit of solo auditing, knows that you can make the meter do anything you want.
 

smartone

My Own Boss
My sister and brother in law watched it. They knew I was into Scientology but they never were. They remarked on how silly those people from the church were to keep following and filming JS et al. My sis said she would have socked them one in the mouth. I told her they only do it to intimidate and socking them in the mouth is playing right into their hands. She said it was sad about how the church disconnects families and how Mike Rinder's expression many times showed his grief and loss. My sis also asked why the church enforces disconnection. I can't repeat here what I told her (too rude).

JS did a good job but shame the secrets are on the cutting room floor. Why can't Mike Rinder and Marty write their own books and divulge the secrets I wonder. :confused2:
 

Carmel

Crusader
Great doco! Good for 'never ins' and Scios alike! :thumbsup:

Well done to John Sweeney and his team, and to all those former Scios who participated either on camera and/or behind the scenes. Cheers! :)
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Not the slightest bit of documentation has yet been presented that Mike Rinder and/or Marty Rathbun ever attempted such a thing.

Carmel Underwood relayed hearsay from a mysterious "someone she trusts" and that's the entirety of the specious "evidence". So far, not even one person involved in the hearings has been named by anyone repeating this accusation who has confirmed that either Rinder or Rathbun tried to influence their decision either for or against!

Yet so many of you keep repeating this PR meme as if it were a true fact, despite the fact that I have pointed out your complete failure to verify it numerous times.

The Burden of Proof for this alleged fact still rests with you all.

Michael A. Hobson
I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forgive.

P.S. - I have asked Marty about it and been answered months ago. Since none of you seem to believe anything he says - unless it confirms your preconceived notions - I will not bother relaying it.

You won't bother relaying it because he didn't answer you.

He doesn't answer anyone's questions. He's above all that. Didn't you know that? My God, Marty Rathbun is the Former Inspector General for Ethics in the RTC! He does not answer questions about anything as unimportant as that!

Did he write you a Dev-T chit for even asking? Even wondering?

And did you route yourself to qual afterwards, at your own expense?

What Marty and Mike have been doing is getting a lot of press and media about things that were already known - for decades. On stuff they themselves used to do to others.

But actually stopping the abuses and the crimes?

It hasn't worked, has it?
 

bts2free

Patron with Honors
Paraphrasing from Hubbard, from CC-OT 3 materials, "If it doesn't seen real to you, seeing the reads on the meter will convince you," etc.

snip

Well in that case, it should have been stated that it is a "Truth Establishing Device."
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Scientologists likey-likey them pinch tests because if lends credence to the voodoo rituals that they pay big bucks for.

Imagine paying a scientific witch doctor $100,000 for a magic lantern (to realize your wishes....I mean postulates) or a voodoo doll that you can use to push pins into to shatter your enemies. In a Scientologist's case (literally and figuratively) that would be "annihilating" the Reactive Mind, BT's, SP's, Barriers to Richness, Impediments to Freedom, et al.....

If the witch doctor could only give ya a little demonstration of how the voodoo doll works with a "Pin Test" it would sure make ya feel all FNey and Winning when you sign that $100K check over.

Voodoo-doll.jpeg


OW (Operating Witchdoctor)
Recall something that is ruining your life.

SCIENTOLOGIST
Okay, it's my SP father who hates Scientology.

OW
I get that! Okay, now put the pin in and
shatter that psych-loving cocksucker.

SCIENTOLOGIST
(puts pin into brain)
Wow, I feel all FNey and VGIS knowing he is going
to drop his body and won't be able to natter any more
about Ron or taking away my million dollar trust fund.

OW
(removing pin hastily)
Hey, knock off the evil purposes and out ethics! Ron says you should
never antagonize an upstat who can flow power to your Bridge.
 

bts2free

Patron with Honors
Scientologists likey-likey them pinch tests because if lends credence to the voodoo rituals that they pay big bucks for.

Imagine paying a scientific witch doctor $100,000 for a magic lantern (to realize your wishes....I mean postulates) or a voodoo doll that you can use to push pins into to shatter your enemies. In a Scientologist's case (literally and figuratively) that would be "annihilating" the Reactive Mind, BT's, SP's, Barriers to Richness, Impediments to Freedom, et al.....

If the witch doctor could only give ya a little demonstration of how the voodoo doll works with a "Pin Test" it would sure make ya feel all FNey and Winning when you sign that $100K check over.

Voodoo-doll.jpeg


OW (Operating Witchdoctor)
Recall something that is ruining your life.

SCIENTOLOGIST
Okay, it's my SP father who hates Scientology.

OW
I get that! Okay, now put the pin in and
shatter that psych-loving cocksucker.

SCIENTOLOGIST
(puts pin into brain)
Wow, I feel all FNey and VGIS knowing he is going
to drop his body and won't be able to natter any more
about Ron or taking away my million dollar trust fund.

OW
(removing pin hastily)
Hey, knock off the evil purposes and out ethics! Ron says you should
never antagonize an upstat who can flow power to your Bridge.

Hahaha!!! Classic!
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
ENTERING SCIENTOLOGY (Pinch Test Commands):
1. Pinch Wog.
2. "Recall being pinched."​


EXITING SCIENTOLOGY (Pinch Test Commands):
1. Pinch Scientologist for all their hopes and money.
2. "Recall being pinched by Scientology."​
 
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Carmel

Crusader
Not the slightest bit of documentation has yet been presented that Mike Rinder and/or Marty Rathbun ever attempted such a thing.

Hmm.....Marty "presented" it, himself, and it was pretty scathing so it beats me how ya could have missed it.

Marty had *plenty* to say about what he thought of a Federal Inquiry into to Scn when it was first proposed, what he thought of Sen Xen, and what he thought of us "cowboys" in Oz. It came from the horses mouth. Interesting too that he had nothing to say at the time of the hearings, and nothing to say about the outcome.

Carmel Underwood relayed hearsay from a mysterious "someone she trusts" and that's the entirety of the specious "evidence".
Where did you get this info from? What was the hearsay supposed to be? I have only relayed what my media contacts told me that Marty had told them, and what effect his info had on the publishing/airing of stories/news. (Note: I'm referring to Marty, not Mike)

So far, not even one person involved in the hearings has been named by anyone repeating this accusation who has confirmed that either Rinder or Rathbun tried to influence their decision either for or against!
Who I wonder do you believe to be the people involved in the hearings? Those who testified? FYI, besides myself, those who testified were not working with the various/numerous media and/or officials on a daily and/or weekly basis, back in December and January when Marty was in contact with our media over here, so they weren't privy to that information.

Yet so many of you keep repeating this PR meme as if it were a true fact, despite the fact that I have pointed out your complete failure to verify it numerous times.

The Burden of Proof for this alleged fact still rests with you all.
The "evidence" is or was on Marty's blog.

P.S. - I have asked Marty about it and been answered months ago. Since none of you seem to believe anything he says - unless it confirms your preconceived notions - I will not bother relaying it.
I'd be curious to know what his answer was in relation to his damning of our actions in Oz, back in November, but it's not something we should probably go into on this thread.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
TheSqueakster said:
Dear Carmel,

I will repeat the command:

"I have asked Marty about it and been answered months ago. Since none of you seem to believe anything he says - unless it confirms your preconceived notions - I will not bother relaying it."

Marty also said not to expect truth from a low-toned natterboard which is why Marty broke his back and nearly died of pneumonia taping a safe way out of the Wall of Cults for all of us. Carmel, you know the only reason someone abandons a messiah. Did you forget your MU tech?

Michael A. Hobson
I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forget.


Carmel,

Stop with all this! Indies like Squeakster and myself are tired of your pretending to not know that Marty is the man-- until Ron returns. This is a self-evident truth, just admit that you are hopelessly trapped and join us after a suitable amends project.

ML,
HH
 

ScudMuffin

Silver Meritorious Patron
Sweeney did a good job. None of the 'raw meat' who watched that program will ever become Scientologists.

Congrats! You win a cookie. If only everyone could see who this was aimed at and not baww at the lack of snow white et al.
 
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