Panorama: Secrets of Scientology (Showing BBC1 28th Sept 2010 9pm UK)

Terril park

Sponsor
agreed. BUT....DO YOU NOT THINK THEY COULD HAVE GONE A LITTLE FURTHER? :confused2: dunno....just was expecting more i guess. it is good that it happened....it is good that its another blow...and so on and so on......but really? i tried to watch it as if i had never had any involvement and in that light it came across as a little.....erm....underwhelming. just my opinion of course.

COS Lawyers and BBC lawyers had much input. We know this as COS made a rebuttal before the programme aired. A subtle footbullet if you will.
 

small steps

Patron with Honors
like i said....agreed. i think maybe what im saying is that it seems to be good for stopping the flow of new people....kind of like a defensive action....but not so much of an attacking one. it was good......but still feels like a missed chance to me. i understand about the legal problems.....but to be fair so MUCH is in the public domain on the internet these days....even compared to just a few years ago....that it just seemed a little over cautious somehow? surely they could have got away with more?
 

ScudMuffin

Silver Meritorious Patron
I thought it was pretty good. Most people would have seen mad dash stuff in the first one and laughed at Sweeny. This one showed what the other side were doing and how they operate. Having Mike and Marty there explain the whole thing was good, most people get an explanation to what was going on.

Lets face it, it was a documentary for people who no nothing about the CoS and now they know a fair bit. Plus; Rinders phone call recording was mint.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Mike Rinder knows enough to put David Miscavige behind bars. How do we know this?

Because Mike Rinder told us. Because 6 months ago Mike Rinder told us he had an 'exclusive' with the BBC and would wait till the show aired. Until he went to Australia, and told us again that he won't talk till it's 'the right season'.

What's missing here?

Oh; yeah. Mike Rinder telling the truth. The truth that will put David Miscavige in jail :)

Do I doubt he *knows* it? No; not at all. Do I doubt he has any intention of telling it? Yup.

Zinj
 

Feral

Rogue male
Watching the show now, download has gone slow, I imagine many are downloading with me.

I think it's a real pro job. Well done to John Sweeney and Mike and Marty. Seriously.

Rathbun said the meter was a "truth detector," not a lie detector. Is he *really* as ignorant as that on what the meter shows?

<SNIP>

Paul

I think that's an acceptable discription in four words. I always bristled when critics who have never been in called it a "lie detector" or said it does nothing.

The meter does do "something" and truth detector although not qite accurate is as good as it's going to get I think.

What are we? Total morons?
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Watching the show now, download has gone slow, I imagine many are downloading with me.

I think it's a real pro job. Well done to John Sweeney and Mike and Marty. Seriously.



I think that's an acceptable discription in four words. I always bristled when critics who have never been in called it a "lie detector" or said it does nothing.

The meter does do "something" and truth detector although not qite accurate is as good as it's going to get I think.

What are we? Total morons?

Right Feral "The meter does do "something" " and the meter is one big part of the Soul Hacking trap Hubbard laid out for his victims and slaves....

Best
Markus
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I think that's an acceptable discription in four words. I always bristled when critics who have never been in called it a "lie detector" or said it does nothing.

The meter does do "something" and truth detector although not qite accurate is as good as it's going to get I think.

What are we? Total morons?

I disagree. The meter shows mental/emotional charge and discharge, totally irrespective of truth. It is highly dangerous to think it shows truth, as then a pc will validate some false idea and think it's true because he F/N'd on it. There's a whole thread about this so I don't want to belabour the point here.

Paul
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Marty's comment:

BBC Panorama – The Secrets of Scientology
Well, that is the title in any event. In fact, the secrets they promised to tell never made it into the final edit. You can thank David Miscavige if you got the overall impression Scientology itself is weird. The fifty letters from the Church and its lawyers to the BBC that the church brags about in its counter video promised litigation should those secrets be told . In other words, spend parishioner donations to cover Dave’s ass exclusively, forcing the media to fill in with old hat, more generalized attack material. Protect Miscavige at the expense of Scientology.

The show does give credible accounts from Mike, Amy, Marc, Claire, Jason, Mareka, et al on matters the world ought to know. But, the secrets that were touted and would have had the most salutory effects were left on the editing room floor.

In that respect, I admit I was wrong. I earlier suggested the BBC would be less inclined to back off as I had accused U.S. media of doing (since the BBC is publicly funded). At the end of the day, I remain confident that the ‘save Dave at any expense’ strategy will be his own undoing.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Sweeney did a good job. None of the 'raw meat' who watched that program will ever become Scientologists.
 

omnom

Patron with Honors
Smilla, I see it the same way.

It was devoid of the beatings, heavy accusations (that can't be readily proved,) and other things that "raw meat" would consider over the top or unbelievable. You don't want to alienate your key audience, who don't know what we do about Scn.

I think it was well done, and opens the door for more future Dissemination Tech on how CoS really operates.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
There is such raw pain in Rinder's eyes, he is still a soul in torment. I hope he makes an opportunity to right the wrongs and find some relief, and at least he doesn't look like the walking dead anymore.

I loved Jason! :happydance:

And Clare, Mark, Amy, Mareka, again touched my heart with the wreckage they live with due to the cult.

I wish some of the "secrets" had come out....but it's a start. You can see there are lawyers behind every word, presenting each conflicting view.
 

omnom

Patron with Honors
I loved Jason!
That was a high point - not only does he come off as a no-BS kinda guy, he touches lightly upon the issues regarding OT3 - that's the first I've personally heard in a public interview to attempt to explain freewheeling...
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I love that WWP now have a John Sweeney avatar as their global 'anonymous' one. :D

Good comment:
Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210
I think in a concise way this is the first ever documentary to fully drive a wedge between Scientology and the celebrates. By showing Jason and his experience, the evidence of the tape recordings and the irrefutable lying of the celebs like Archer and co., they have compiled how the system of control works in regards to celebs and explains Cruises, Travolta and other celebs behavior in regard to Scientology.

In that case this is pure WIN.

By publicly damaging the celebs and pointing them to the liars they are, they are destroying credibility further which Scientology so desperately wants to maintain as a public image. It also forces Celeb Scientologists to defend their claims and if they keep lying in the face of overwhelming evidence, they will sooner or later be outed.

I hope the man in the dress is Cruise. The way it was all set up with everyone obviously knowing Cruises "thing" and Beghe letting out the information to let Cruise know that his auditing files are being handed around without incriminating himself is the footbullet Miscavige did not want to be aired. If so Tom Cruise must feel deeply betrayed.

By showing a siding with Marty and the "beliefs" of Scientology, they have shown not to attack the beliefs and therefore knocking the churchs tag line of bigotry, their only point of defense left.

Genius programming. I wish the hive could start thinking like that.
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/15-m...bbc-one-tuesday-28-september-2100-a-71710/39/
 
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Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
There is such raw pain in Rinder's eyes, he is still a soul in torment. I hope he makes an opportunity to right the wrongs and find some relief, and at least he doesn't look like the walking dead anymore.

I wish some of the "secrets" had come out....but it's a start. You can see there are lawyers behind every word, presenting each conflicting view.

Mike said he knew the secrets sufficient to put David Miscavige behind bars, but, that he was waiting to tell them..

Waiting till his 'exclusive' with the BBC. Then, he decided to 'tell the secrets' to Australian TV and Senator Xenephon *before* Panorama went to air....

But, supposedly those secrets were left 'on the cutting room floor' too.

Now Marty suggests that Panorama did *not* broadcast the secrets they were told. Which ones? the ones that would put David Miscavige behind bars? Wouldn't that be enough to blow the whole turd out of the toilet?

And, now that the cutting room floor is littered with the secrets, why can't both Marty and Mike show some balls and publish them *themselves*???

Nobody will give them a printing press?

Zinj
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I'm not unused to posting to Marty's site and getting the 'your comment is awaiting moderation' message. But, for *this* one, I got nothing.

Nada.

So, here it is here:

----------------------------------
"But, the secrets that were touted and would have had the most salutory effects were left on the editing room floor."

That may well be Marty, but, is there some reason they have to *stay* there? What would there be that would keep you or Mike or anyone else who knew the secrets that you shared with Panorama from publishing them right here?

Sure, there wouldn't be the kind of 'production values' or even video (unless you felt like filming it) that a mainstream media extravaganza would offer, but, my impression is that you respect the founding fathers of our nation, who, when they didn't have media coverage, published their *own* broadsides.

Much as you do here. So, why not tell the secrets *here*??

Joe Lynn
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Zinj
 
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