Part 2 -How many people went Type III (ie. had a Psychotic Break) in your org?

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
If she is still alive , it is likely she is entitled to her royalties.
In the event, she became incapable, someone must manage it on her behalf ????

Also, what PRS and MCPS did and are doing with her royalties they collect ???

Shall be a good source of information to start with..when you are alive, you need your money :confused2:
 
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M

Moderator 3375

Guest
I have edited the thread title in the last few posts, there was a glaring spelling mistake we don't need repeated in future quotes or affecting Google searches.
Thanks to the member who reported it.
Mod 3375
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Not sure if anything has been previously posted about this person (Likki from the Incredible String Band) but here goes...

This is a series of comments on Mike Rinder's blog from a couple days ago I'm cross-posting over here.
.


Likki ( Christina 'Licorice' McKechnie ) :

At Woodstock:
e6a11487cadf7efcfb9b22e0224c7d0d.jpg
rose-flute.jpg
Incredible-String-Band.jpg


Live performance, 1970
[video=youtube;4XuKKTtg-Cs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XuKKTtg-Cs[/video]
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Father 'heavily involved in Scientology' jumped in front of train after hearing voices.

Get West London: Father 'heavily involved in Scientology' jumped in front of train after hearing voices telling him 'he was going to hell', court hears

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news...-heavily-involved-scientology-jumped-12410671

* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *

Father 'heavily involved in Scientology' jumped in front of train after hearing voices telling him 'he was going to hell', court hears

Peter Docherty was found dead at Ealing Broadway station on January 7 2015 after saying he did not feel safe going home from hospital, the court heard

By David Rivers

16:48, 5 JAN 2017 Updated 16:53, 5 JAN 2017

[SNIP]

Mr Docherty was heavily interested in Scientology, giving money and working for them for free, the court was told.

A statement from his ex-wife, Julie Docherty, read out in court said: "He became involved in Scientology, I felt he changed after he became involved in Scientology.

"He said he wanted Marc to get involved I said I didn't want this.

"He started getting paranoid. Leaflets were left on the floor.

"He spent a lot of at the Solace Centre.

"I never thought he would step in front of a train.

"Next thing I heard was that he had stepped in front of a train.

"He gave money to Scientology and said he would work with them without pay.

"The voices were about him being evil and the things he had done - voices told him he was going to hell."

His sister, Nancy Docherty, said: "He was heavily involved in Scientology, for more than 10 years.

"He gave up his job so he could hand out newspapers for them."

The 54-year-old was hit by a train traveling at 100mph, Gary Mathias, from British Transport Police said.

* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
:sad:

:scnsucks:
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Here is the story of an unnamed woman written in the comments section over at the Bunker earlier today:

Mat Pesch10 hours ago Lisa McPherson and dozens and dozens of other Scientologists have been denied professional mental health care by Scientology when they had mental breakdowns. As a result of having these people locked up in a room with a guard at the door, they break things in the rooms and sometimes even rip the sheetrock of the walls. I saw a girl use her bare feet to kick through a shower door. Are these people guilty of a "hate crime?" or is Scientology guilty of putting peoples lives at risk by pretending to be experts on the human mind (without a license)?

Mat Pesch 9 hours ago Okay, here is a real and gruesome example. In 1978 there was a young Sea Org girl working at the base in Palm Springs where LRH was living and shooting films. The girl was acting a bit unstable and it was thought that maybe she would do better at the new property the church had just bought in Hemet, CA., later to be known as GOLD or the INT base. I was one of about 15 new, young Sea Org members sent to the new property to clean up the buildings so the base in Palm Springs could move there. The unstable girl was given the job of helping in the kitchen to provide food for the renovations crew. There was a girl sent over from the Palm Springs base to be a Course Supervisor. She was supposed to get us new guys through some basic Scientology courses. Her name was Betsy. One day Betsy pulls me aside. She is a bit freaked out and says she needs my help. She brings me to a room where the unstable girl has now gone into a full blown mental breakdown. I mean naked, crap on the floor, scream and roll on the floor thinking sharks are eating her one minute and the next she is crying for her mother because she is blind. It was horrifying. Realize no one is to know that Scientology bought the property and there is still a U.S. Post Office functioning from a building on the property. Betsy shows me the L.Ron Hubbard policy on how a person is to be handled and wants me to watch this girl. I am hardly a Scientologist (like the others on the base) but I am apparently the most qualified because I had read part of Dianetics?! It was a complete nightmare. After a couple of days she completely wore herself out and she was removed from the base by some other Sea Org members. I know she lived as I ran into her in a store 25 years later (she still looked crazy) but she could have easily ended up like Lisa McPherson. This kind of incident and "treatment" was not that uncommon in the Sea Org. This is reality in the group that calls themselves the experts on the human mind. I can tell many more gruesome stories as can most veterans of the Sea Org.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
And they dare to hold a permanent horror museum called the industry of death!

p11.JPG





$cientology: Industry of ?????

Mental breakdowns ? Cancer? suicide ? despair ? family disconnections ?
making of ennemies ? Entities stucked on you ? In you? Bancrupties ?
Slave labour? false imprisonement?
 
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Warrior

Patron with Honors
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

I agree. I think it deserves its own thread.

For the continuation of this thread....does anyone here remember a post that Warrior made on ARS that contained a write-up by a totally wonderful girl about her Iso? She apparently believed that she had been recognized by the write-up, and chastised warrior for posting it. There was some discussion about it. her ID was never revealed, afaik.
Her story, as written by her, was a stellar example of a gentle, fragile, creative, and beautiful soul, and her story from her perspective was poignant and unique.

Beginning in early 1997 when I was doing work for attorney Kennan Dandar on the Lisa McPherson wrongful death civil suit, one of the first things I did was to find some of the staff I knew in PAC who had been subjected to Hubbard's Introspection Rundown, aka Baby Watch.

The first Baby Watch victim I ever wrote about publicly was in a post I made to alt.religion.scientology. I posted about a female friend who had been staff at Publications Organization US and Bridge Publications, Incorporated. Her treatment by her handlers had been VERY BRUTAL, almost resulting in her death.

When I made my post to a.r.s. detailing my knowledge of her treatment, I did use her first name but only used the first letter of her last name. I referred to her as Terry F. I also mentioned that she had a son named Ryan and a husband named Rick. I made my post in hopes that she or a lurker would see it, come forward, and contact me with information regarding her current whereabouts. My goal was to get her in touch with Kennan Dandar. I succeeded. She did make contact with Kennan and me.

On a.r.s., a whole lot of nastiness and personal attacks on me ensued, primarily instigated by Phil Scott's insane lies, his accusations of me being a member of OSA or working for Scientology's Office of Special Affairs, how I was intentionally trying to "spin her in" all over again, how I had "black PR'd" Terry, etc.

If anyone cares to read the posts, they can probably be retrieved from Google's alt.religion.scientology archive. Terry even got involved in the discussions on a.r.s. (using the nick "madwog") and unfortunately attacked me saying that we had never been friends, and that my recollection of what I saw didn't happen the way I recounted it.

Considering that I knew Terry and her husband well enough to spend time with them together at the Child Care Org at the Annex (on N. Bronson Avenue) during family time, and the fact that I personally prepared Rick and Terry's 1980 Federal Income Tax return, and the fact that I contracted with Rick for him to make a gold wedding band for me, and that I worked with Terry and Rick for a few years while we were all in the Sea Org, it was a very strange thing (and in some way hurtful) for her to tell me that we "never had been friends". I had a hard time understanding WHY she would say such a thing until I learned that Terry had been on a permanent Social Security disability ever since her abusive Baby Watch in early 1981, with forced drugging and isolation in the Cedars of Lebanon Main Building top floor.

All the best,
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects

http://warrior.xenu.ca
 

TheSneakster

More Skeptical Than You
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

On a.r.s., a whole lot of nastiness and personal attacks on me ensued, primarily instigated by Phil Scott's insane lies, his accusations of me being a member of OSA or working for Scientology's Office of Special Affairs, how I was intentionally trying to "spin her in" all over again, how I had "black PR'd" Terry, etc.

The following is a quote from Terry, the source of which I will not link as it would identify her:

Terry said:
[FONT=&amp]I've read rumors about me on the internet, with false[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]allegations of filth and violence and more.... It is my[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]understanding that all but one of these stories about me[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]come from one person, who also falsely claimed to have[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]been friends with me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]

I have backed you up before on this matter, Warrior as I was one of Pubs US staff dragooned into guarding her in a large utility closet on the seventh floor Main Building during that "baby watch" and an eyewitness to the dreadful condition she was in at that time.

A couple of weeks after she was abruptly released from the baby watch and discharged from staff (the result of a lawsuit threat from her mother, IIRC), I chanced to meet her on Fountain Ave. near the south staircase. It was extremely difficult to speak with her as she was still "spinning" with voices speaking to her and similar manifestations.

We had been friends at Pubs US before her psychotic break. I maintained a calm and friendly demeanor despite the alarming "originations" and this seemed to bring her "into present time" long enough to speak. In the end, I could only reassure her that we were still friends and that I still cared about her before going back to my duties. When I left, she was more or less coherent, but I have no idea how long that lasted. [/FONT]
:bigcry:

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
email: [email protected]
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011
 
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Warrior

Patron with Honors
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

The following is a quote from Terry, the source of which I will not link as it would identify her:
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Terry

I've read rumors about me on the internet, with false
allegations of filth and violence and more.... It is my
understanding that all but one of these stories about me
come from one person, who also falsely claimed to have
been friends with me.

I have backed you up before on this matter, Warrior as I was one of Pubs US staff dragooned into guarding her in a large utility closet on the seventh floor Main Building during that "baby watch" and an eyewitness to the dreadful condition she was in at that time.

A couple of weeks after she was abruptly released from the baby watch and discharged from staff (the result of a lawsuit threat from her mother, IIRC), I chanced to meet her on Fountain Ave. near the south staircase. It was extremely difficult to speak with her as she was still "spinning" with voices speaking to her and similar manifestations.

We had been friends at Pubs US before her psychotic break. I maintained a calm and friendly demeanor despite the alarming "originations" and this seemed to bring her "into present time" long enough to speak. In the end, I could only reassure her that we were still friends and that I still cared about her before going back to my duties. When I left, she was more or less coherent, but I have no idea how long that lasted.
:bigcry:

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
email: [email protected]
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011

Thank you, Michael.

For the record -- again -- I have never had anything but compassion and love for Terry, as I do with all victims of Scientology's Introspection Rundown with its mandated isolation and drugging.

I first posted about Terry's ordeal around 20 years ago, and in my post I intentionally did not state her last name out of respect for her privacy. Posts made to the Internet by people other than me can take responsibility for that, but it is a lie to try to pin her "outing" on me. I did not begin to post to alt.religion.scientology until 1996 because prior to then, I had no laptop and no internet connection.

For Terry to have stated, "It is my understanding that all but one of these stories about me come from one person, who also falsely claimed to have
been friends with me" is completely understandable due to the fact that her memory of events has most certainly been scrambled by the drugs that were administered to her. And, on top of that, Phil Scott fed her a bunch of bullshit.

My first post to a.r.s. (as "Miss X") was in September of 1996. See http://warrior.xenu.ca/1996-0917a.html

By
August of 1995 -- over a full year before I made my post about Terry -- both Exotic Magazine and The Willamette Week had already reported Terry's ordeal (http://www.skeptictank.org/scamtolo.htm), even using her last name . Their reporting also included the name of Richard Fisher, the Assistant Guardian for Pubs Org US, who was involved in her watch.

 
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lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
When I was in the cult, late 80's there was a couple who was going through a difficult time.
Very very nice, good generous kind people though.

He was a professional in a field that is not well regarded by the CO$, so he was driven to think his field of practice was suppressive.
One day, he began to display psychotic symptoms. But the most troubling thing is he never had any psychiatric issues before, neither there was in his family. The more he was audited the more he got real bad and looked like a shadow. It was said in the org that he had a psychotic break (put on Introspection rundown if memory serves)

His wife, appeared to be desperate. I've seen her, in despair, and she appeared totally kinda like frozen. She was totally passive in this situation and relied 100% on the CO$ ethics and auditing.

Fast forward 2017, last year, which was about 30 years later, I stumbled upon her in a shopping center.
At first I didn't recognized her (she almost looked like an old women, deprived of all vital energy) but she did (recognized me) since she smiled at me as she used to. ( We had a good relationship (not close though) at the org . )

What hit me was, jezz, it's so hard to describe, the ''dissociated from this word''...appearance. The way she look at me was so ''empty''...it was like a ghost looking at me. She was definitely not herself, more like a zoombie. It made me recall the number of people I saw at Flag displaying this way of looking at you...especially in the sea org alley. It was this vision I had there of being trapped in a zombie dark world that made me escape.

It made me so sad as I felt she was stucked within some sort of dissociated, lonely and hopeless state.
If I could I would have sit and talk with her..but jeezz..it would first requires to wake up the''thetan''

My thought about psychotic breaks and psychosis in $cientology is that it is probably caused by traumas..the more traumas are piling on, the more people are close to loose it because the brain can't take it anymore. I believe that most $cientologist who have been in the SO, or have undergone sec checks , rpf and OT3 and + or under threats of disconnection, justice procedures, punished year after year are encountering some sort and stage of mental dissociation because of complex or chronic trauma and situations that don't make sens and are harming so deeply.. . The same we encounter in labour camp when people can't escape the abuse (physical or mental\emotional) and feel helpless) The fact is that we all felt we couldn't escape the abuse one day because LRH planned all possible way to keep us tied..with disconnection, freeloader debt, conditions, SP tagging and the lost of our eternity...we all felt captive for a shorter or longer time and that is a component of building a chronic trauma.

One of its main symptoms is amnesia...

It is my belief that LRH knew about this condition and made use of it to paralyzed people (men shall be my slaves) and then reframe their thoughts, cognitions and submissive behavior. He probably knew about what has been later called the Stockholm syndrome. And he knew it was way easier to perform with kids than adults..(not allowing them any secure and loving family bounds to be built). This is why he created his commodore messengers org (pure uncontaminated thetans..as they used to think of themselves..which means still very easy to indoctrinate with LRH \belief system and to build total obedience and loyalty for not knowing the real life and meaningful relationships and life)

Although, those kids seems to be less prone to psychotic breaks than people (adults) who joined after a wog life..but I may be wrong with that since my observations were not from a large population but small groups of CMO.

regards
Lotus
 
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Leland

Crusader
Re: How many people went type III in your org?



You are too kind, Babygirl.
Hubbard believed that he was Master of the Universe until, apparently, on his deathbed his 'life passes before him' and he realizes he is just a piece of Earth trash.
There was once a rumor....I can't recall where I heard of it...but it went something like this:

Scientology was developed to "Find" the aware people...the ones that wanted to help...then kill them, so as to allow the Cult to "take over."
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
(snipped)
My thought about psychotics breaks and psychosis in $cientology is that it is probably caused by traumas..the more traumas are piling on, the more people are close to loose it because the brain can't take it anymore. I believe that most $cientologist who have been in the SO, or have undergone sec checks , rpf and OT3 and + or under threats of disconnection, justice procedures, punished year after year are encountering some sort and stage of mental dissociation because of complex or chronic trauma and situation that doesn't make sens and are harming so deeply.. . The same we encounter in labour camp when people can't escape the abuse (physical or mental\emotional) and feel helpless) The fact is that we all felt we couldn't escape the abuse one day because LRH planned all possible way to keep us tied..with disconnection, freeloader debt, conditions, SP tagging and the lost of our eternity...we all felt captive for a shorter or longer time and that is a component of building a chronic trauma.

One of it's main symptoms is amnesia...

It is my belief that LRH knew about this condition and made use of it to paralyzed people (men shall be my slaves) and then reframe their thoughts, cognitions and submissive behavior. He probably knew about what has been later called the Stockholm syndrome. And he knew it was way easier to perform with kids than adults..(only have to not allow any secure and loving familie bounds to be built). This is why he created his commodore messengers org (pure uncontaminated thetans..as they used to think of themselves..which means still very easy to indoctrinate with LRH \belief system and build total obedience and loyalty for not knowing the real life)
(snipped)

Even I as a young boy in the 60s knew about "Shell Shock".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_shock

Boys grow up with an understanding that they may be drafted and have to fight a war so we watched stuff like "Combat" and "Hogan's Heroes". Hubbard had to have had a deep interest in Shell Shock as a subject, by any of it's many names, especially since he was so close to the post WWI period and from a military family. There has always been a stigma surrounding this issue as it is difficult to diagnose and can easily be credited to a weakness in character. But Shell Shock is caused by the obvious and extreme conditions of war, yet much of the same effect can be caused by prolonged stressful circumstances such as the Sea Org. I've had to talk fellow Sea Org members down from what I would describe as very close to a psychotic break. That point where a person is about to blow is very much like that. Wide eyed, they are heavily conflicted with decisions about leaving a spouse, friends or other family members, being labeled an SP, an Enemy, Traitor, and denigrated as a failure. They know according to policy by virtue of wanting to leave or discussing it they are suppressive and the only way to route out is to subject themselves to intrusive sec-checks where they probe every thought about leaving and who you have spoken to - including me if I am the person trying to talk them down. They may not know that the Freeloader Debt is not enforceable by law. All their Certs and Awards will be cancelled and upper levels of the Bridge may be banned forever leaving a stigma on them from other Scientologists, including friends and family. If they blow, they know their own co-workers, people they have cared for and respected will be charged to chase them down and "recover" them with all the talk about how everything will be alright, and different, the problems will be fixed, the outside world is insane and they need your help to save it.

Your life is governed by statistics but you have no real control over the production of those statistics. Sure you can count things like the "letters in" or "bodies in" but the overall conditions of Scientology depend upon Scientology being liked and valued by the general public and the organization holds them in complete contempt and treats them with carefully constructed duplicity in policy and culture. The erosion of trust shows up on the bottom line and you are eating beans and rice and scrounging for TP while being told it's your fault. You are denied the logistics to build up and improve your area to raise your respective stats. If you get a new person and they are too good then they are transferred and replaced by another less promising candidate if at all. The worse things get the stronger the witch hunts for the SPs in the org dragging everyone else down. You're walking on eggshells. The sleep deprivation, lack of proper nutrition, subsistence living standards, crowded dorms, bedbugs, cockroaches, lack of extracurricular activities and vacations, little interaction with outside family and friends, correspondence being monitored - it has a cumulative effect.

You become emotionally numb, dead in the head, afraid to innovate because you don't know if you will be punished or rewarded because the interpretation of policy is so fickle, like Muslims praying 5 times a day you go to Muster 3 times a day, there is no let up, it's constant refocusing back to work, It's Metropolis the movie and you are a walking zombie going from one shift to the other with no change in sight.

Sea Org members are "reasonable" if they accept that public Scientologists should be any different. They need to go to course, pay for auditing, donate to the IAS, volunteer, join staff, give their children to the Sea Org, go into debt on the promise that the benefits will provide the ability to generate more money many times over. The Scientology version of Shell Shock spreads through the entire Scientology community over time but they have been trained to "mock up" being VGIs (Very Good Indicators) so they they don't fail the e-meter exam after a course completion or auditing session which would cause them to redo services at great time and expense or be deemed a "No-Case-Gain" and they can't tell the people closest to them that they are having doubts and reservations because that would mean they are in a "Condition" of "Doubt" - more money, more amends, more denigration.

Scientology is a calculated formula for a slow rolling form of Shell Shock.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
And they dare to hold a permanent horror museum called the industry of death!

p11.JPG





$cientology: Industry of ?????

Mental breakdowns ? Cancer? suicide ? despair ? family disconnections ?
making of ennemies ? Entities stucked on you ? In you? Bancrupties ?
Slave labour? false imprisonement?

There was once a rumor....I can't recall where I heard of it...but it went something like this:

Scientology was developed to "Find" the aware people...the ones that wanted to help...then kill them, so as to allow the Cult to "take over."
Mmmmm...

Yeah...

I have often wondered about just that...

Well not exactly that...

Not so the cult could take over; the cult is just for finding the 144,000 sealed souls who keep Earth woven into Paradise

And nowadays the population is sifted for us by computers and the only reason I haven't been killed already is they're using me to develop their database profile for identifying us

That'
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Even I as a young boy in the 60s knew about "Shell Shock".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_shock

Boys grow up with an understanding that they may be drafted and have to fight a war so we watched stuff like "Combat" and "Hogan's Heroes". Hubbard had to have had a deep interest in Shell Shock as a subject, by any of it's many names, especially since he was so close to the post WWI period and from a military family. There has always been a stigma surrounding this issue as it is difficult to diagnose and can easily be credited to a weakness in character. But Shell Shock is caused by the obvious and extreme conditions of war, yet much of the same effect can be caused by prolonged stressful circumstances such as the Sea Org. I've had to talk fellow Sea Org members down from what I would describe as very close to a psychotic break. That point where a person is about to blow is very much like that. Wide eyed, they are heavily conflicted with decisions about leaving a spouse, friends or other family members, being labeled an SP, an Enemy, Traitor, and denigrated as a failure. They know according to policy by virtue of wanting to leave or discussing it they are suppressive and the only way to route out is to subject themselves to intrusive sec-checks where they probe every thought about leaving and who you have spoken to - including me if I am the person trying to talk them down. They may not know that the Freeloader Debt is not enforceable by law. All their Certs and Awards will be cancelled and upper levels of the Bridge may be banned forever leaving a stigma on them from other Scientologists, including friends and family. If they blow, they know their own co-workers, people they have cared for and respected will be charged to chase them down and "recover" them with all the talk about how everything will be alright, and different, the problems will be fixed, the outside world is insane and they need your help to save it.

Your life is governed by statistics but you have no real control over the production of those statistics. Sure you can count things like the "letters in" or "bodies in" but the overall conditions of Scientology depend upon Scientology being liked and valued by the general public and the organization holds them in complete contempt and treats them with carefully constructed duplicity in policy and culture. The erosion of trust shows up on the bottom line and you are eating beans and rice and scrounging for TP while being told it's your fault. You are denied the logistics to build up and improve your area to raise your respective stats. If you get a new person and they are too good then they are transferred and replaced by another less promising candidate if at all. The worse things get the stronger the witch hunts for the SPs in the org dragging everyone else down. You're walking on eggshells. The sleep deprivation, lack of proper nutrition, subsistence living standards, crowded dorms, bedbugs, cockroaches, lack of extracurricular activities and vacations, little interaction with outside family and friends, correspondence being monitored - it has a cumulative effect.

You become emotionally numb, dead in the head, afraid to innovate because you don't know if you will be punished or rewarded because the interpretation of policy is so fickle, like Muslims praying 5 times a day you go to Muster 3 times a day, there is no let up, it's constant refocusing back to work, It's Metropolis the movie and you are a walking zombie going from one shift to the other with no change in sight.

Sea Org members are "reasonable" if they accept that public Scientologists should be any different. They need to go to course, pay for auditing, donate to the IAS, volunteer, join staff, give their children to the Sea Org, go into debt on the promise that the benefits will provide the ability to generate more money many times over. The Scientology version of Shell Shock spreads through the entire Scientology community over time but they have been trained to "mock up" being VGIs (Very Good Indicators) so they they don't fail the e-meter exam after a course completion or auditing session which would cause them to redo services at great time and expense or be deemed a "No-Case-Gain" and they can't tell the people closest to them that they are having doubts and reservations because that would mean they are in a "Condition" of "Doubt" - more money, more amends, more denigration.

Scientology is a calculated formula for a slow rolling form of Shell Shock.
Excellent post TOBBY

The organzation is the opposite of what it should be.

Is that Hubbard's DELIBERATE fault; did he intend it to be like that?

I actually don't think so...

I think he did have an ideal vision but polluted by those same all too human failings to which we are prey ourselves
 
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