Paul's Body Thetans

lkwdblds

Crusader
Quite remarkable posts!

I've posted some of this before and some is new. I got tired of trying to find my earlier posts on body thetans, scattered through various threads, and figured this way I could find my ideas on the subject again as they gradually evolve. It's also about my ideas on your "body thetans." I thought a thread title of "Paul's Evolving Views on Everyone's Supposed Body Thetans" would be less eye-catching and harder for me to remember.

In brief, and as far as I know, Hubbard's idea is that a body thetan is an entire spiritual being, more or less like thee or me, more or less able to run a meat body if set loose from his spiritual captivity through Hubbard's tech. These body thetans, either singly or in clusters, being in actual or potential intimate mental/spiritual contact with their host, can have an effect, small or large, on the individual. By getting rid of these undesirable beings (undesirable really in terms of their proximity and influence), one can become more oneself, as the sources for the alien thoughts and intentions are removed from one's space and area of influence, or rather area of being influenced. This cleansing activity is the main focus of OT3 and up through Solo NOTs. On OT3 the person is likely to get rid of hundreds of BTs, throughout NOTs and Solo NOTs thousands and thousands. Hubbard's ideas here.

As I've stated many times, although the theory that goes with along with Hubbard's OT2 and OT3 is preposterous, I believe most people who have completed those levels achieved benefits from following - closely or sloppily - the procedures,
Paul

Paul - I read both of your posts on this subject, the one I partially quoted above and the Checksheet type of post on runing OT3. I did OT3 in the mid 1970's and the Checksheet type post was like taking a trip down "Memory Lane" for me. On the above quoted post, I agree with you 100% but you have analyzed the matter much more thoroughly than I ever did so I picked up a lot of new ideas and data on the subject for which I thank you!

Prior to reading your posts today, my take on it was that the theory on OT3 was prepostrous but that the auditing produced positive results on those who did it correctly. Those two points were my entire opinion of the subject.

I am particularly fascinated with your discussion of Chakra threads. I have several time periods which I am intensely interested in along with specific people who lived during those times. One era is Vienna of the late 18th century, when classical music was flourishing and another era is around Las Cruces, New Mexico in the days of Billy the Kid. I am wired into many of the persona of those days very strongly and if asked a question about their opinions of the time, I feel qualified to answer for them. Its as if I am on intimate terms with them.
Lkwdblds
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Just some updated thoughts here after an interesting chat with a friend today.

It's a bit more exploration of the ideas that "body thetans" are in reality little globs of energy-consciousness from some other spiritual being. As well as various woo-woo possibilities, such a person might be a friend you had a big face-to-face argument with several years ago, and you ended up exchanging some globs of energy-consciousness while your electronic fields (auras) were overlapping (they interpenetrate, but also stick out a few feet from your body).

So you're in session and you spot the alienness of this glob. Whether you call it an alien glob or a body thetan doesn't matter too much. You run whatever process you want on it, which basically involves putting attention on it and investigating it, one way or another. Maybe at the end you include some version of Ken Ogger's "Spot (or 'point to') the being you [the alien glob] separated from." At the end of that little auditing cycle you perceive the disharmony to have dissipated or dissolved or blown or whatever. The point is it is no longer on your radar as something to be addressed. Done deal.

I've discussed this before, so this has really been a recap. But here is an extra thought. The disharmony might have disappeared, but does some part of the glob actually return to the current energy structure of the original being that was the source of it? It doesn't have to be a session at the OT3 or NOTs level — it could be a low-level session where the client is running an incident from another's viewpoint. This happens in any 21st century procedure that includes multiple-viewpoint running, like R3X or some of my Rub & Yawn videos and modules.

To tie it into a somewhat-familiar example, let's say Sally is being run on the Suppressed Person Rundown, and is being audited on problems processes to do with Uncle Jack. Could it be that little globs of Uncle Jack are returning to Uncle Jack's personal space with the disharmony involving Sally removed? Could it also be that little disharmonious globs of Sally are being detached from Uncle Jack's space and being assimilated back by Sally?

At some point, it is known that the EP of Uncle Jack no longer being so upset with Sally and communicating in a friendly manner (hopefully) occurs. It seems to me that for this to occur:

1. No great disharmony involving Sally will exist in Uncle Jack's immediate space (i.e., no bad energy globs with Sally-tags around him).
2. Something must happen for Uncle Jack to notice the change from having bad-Sally globs to having good-Sally globs, or at least the change from bad-Sally globs to no-Sally globs. In addition, there must be a pull, a vacuum, that is only satisfied by the flow of a friendly reach.

Paul
 
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Just some updated thoughts here after an interesting chat with a friend today.

It's a bit more exploration of the ideas that "body thetans" are in reality little globs of energy-consciousness from some other spiritual being. As well as various woo-woo possibilities, such a person might be a friend you had a big face-to-face argument with several years ago, and you ended up exchanging some globs of energy-consciousness while your electronic fields (auras) were overlapping (they interpenetrate, but also stick out a few feet from your body).

So you're in session and you spot the alienness of this glob. Whether you call it an alien glob or a body thetan doesn't matter too much. You run whatever process you want on it, which basically involves putting attention on it and investigating it, one way or another. Maybe at the end you include some version of Ken Ogger's "Spot (or 'point to') the being you [the alien glob] separated from." At the end of that little auditing cycle you perceive the disharmony to have dissipated or dissolved or blown or whatever. The point is it is no longer on your radar as something to be addressed. Done deal.

I've discussed this before, so this has really been a recap. But here is an extra thought. The disharmony might have disappeared, but does some part of the glob actually return to the current energy structure of the original being that was the source of it? It doesn't have to be a session at the OT3 or NOTs level — it could be a low-level session where the client is running an incident from another's viewpoint. This happens in any 21st century procedure that includes multiple-viewpoint running, like R3X or some of my Rub & Yawn videos and modules.

To tie it into a somewhat-familiar example, let's say Sally is being run on the Suppressed Person Rundown, and is being audited on problems processes to do with Uncle Jack. Could it be that little globs of Uncle Jack are returning to Uncle Jack's personal space with the disharmony involving Sally removed? Could it also be that little disharmonious globs of Sally are being detached from Uncle Jack's space and being assimilated back by Sally?

At some point, it is known that the EP of Uncle Jack no longer being so upset with Sally and communicating in a friendly manner(hopefully) occurs. It seems to me that for this to occur:

1. No great disharmony involving Sally will exist in Uncle Jack's immediate space (i.e., no bad energy globs with Sally-tags around him).
2. Something must happen for Uncle Jack to notice the change from having bad-Sally globs to having good-Sally globs, or at least the change from bad-Sally globs to no-Sally globs.

Paul

Or were they ever separated from the "original owner" to begin with? :whistling:


Mark A. Baker
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Or were they ever separated from the "original owner" to begin with? :whistling:

Mark A. Baker

One could consider them not to have been, but I don't see it as helpful to do so. It can be useful to think of everything as interpenetrating everything else (see the universe in a grain of sand etc.), but most of the time it gets into A=A=A.

Paul
 

Div6

Crusader
Auditing collisions of life forces is always interesting...you may even be able to raise the dead with it. On OT III you audit a super massive collective engram-grouper-denyer collision to the point that the being doing the solo seperates out from it. My experience a la the Suppressed Person rundown is this: the key to successful PTS Rndns and SPRD's is the "known before" factor. I can usually tell when the SPRD will EP, as the person (after all kinds of problem processes are run) will hit a heavy incident on the pre-hav scale in which they became "quantumly entangled" with the other. As the life force units rise up to the "confront" level of the Havingness Scale (or higher) the ARC returns.

At least that is my current theory. Also of interest is the tech of quantum entanglement at the photon level. This will be a huge revolution:

http://www.physorg.com/news193551675.html
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

On OT III you audit a super massive collective engram-grouper-denyer collision to the point that the being doing the solo seperates out from it.

-snip-

[/url]

OT III is a subtle (covert) psychological overwhelming mixed with "wins"; and, while I appreciate the attempts to sort out these mostly (post) 1965 "upper level" parts of Scientology, it's somewhat disappointing when the psychological manipulation/trick aspect is downplayed, or even ignored.
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
This is as highly interesting thread ever that I've just stumbled upon. I never was sure if the pictures that popped up in my auditing were mine or not anyway, so nothing comes as any surprise. I found that I could put my TR's in on a mass, acknowledge it and watch it blow W/O having to delve into the identity of the mass. That was a much quicker, and easier way to keep my space clean than to have to continuously go into session....
 
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DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
One could consider them not to have been, but I don't see it as helpful to do so. It can be useful to think of everything as interpenetrating everything else (see the universe in a grain of sand etc.), but most of the time it gets into A=A=A.

Paul
With all the convoluted twists and turns that are divulged in each successive "OT" level, I predict the ultimate truth divulged at the end of the dusty trail is that, in fact, A does equal A=A.
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Just some updated thoughts here after an interesting chat with a friend today.

It's a bit more exploration of the ideas that "body thetans" are in reality little globs of energy-consciousness from some other spiritual being. As well as various woo-woo possibilities, such a person might be a friend you had a big face-to-face argument with several years ago, and you ended up exchanging some globs of energy-consciousness while your electronic fields (auras) were overlapping (they interpenetrate, but also stick out a few feet from your body).

So you're in session and you spot the alienness of this glob. Whether you call it an alien glob or a body thetan doesn't matter too much. You run whatever process you want on it, which basically involves putting attention on it and investigating it, one way or another. Maybe at the end you include some version of Ken Ogger's "Spot (or 'point to') the being you [the alien glob] separated from." At the end of that little auditing cycle you perceive the disharmony to have dissipated or dissolved or blown or whatever. The point is it is no longer on your radar as something to be addressed. Done deal.

I've discussed this before, so this has really been a recap. But here is an extra thought. The disharmony might have disappeared, but does some part of the glob actually return to the current energy structure of the original being that was the source of it? It doesn't have to be a session at the OT3 or NOTs level — it could be a low-level session where the client is running an incident from another's viewpoint. This happens in any 21st century procedure that includes multiple-viewpoint running, like R3X or some of my Rub & Yawn videos and modules.

To tie it into a somewhat-familiar example, let's say Sally is being run on the Suppressed Person Rundown, and is being audited on problems processes to do with Uncle Jack. Could it be that little globs of Uncle Jack are returning to Uncle Jack's personal space with the disharmony involving Sally removed? Could it also be that little disharmonious globs of Sally are being detached from Uncle Jack's space and being assimilated back by Sally?

At some point, it is known that the EP of Uncle Jack no longer being so upset with Sally and communicating in a friendly manner (hopefully) occurs. It seems to me that for this to occur:

1. No great disharmony involving Sally will exist in Uncle Jack's immediate space (i.e., no bad energy globs with Sally-tags around him).
2. Something must happen for Uncle Jack to notice the change from having bad-Sally globs to having good-Sally globs, or at least the change from bad-Sally globs to no-Sally globs. In addition, there must be a pull, a vacuum, that is only satisfied by the flow of a friendly reach.

Paul
Paul, I once had an OT 4, L12 friend tell me that his POV was that one can inadvertently refill one's BT quota by having sex with fucked up, BT laden partners as you will have a cleaner space that will draw them into your vacuum!? Any truth to this from your perspective, as in 2 vessels will find their equilibrium by being connected?
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi Paul, I just read your OP for the first time and have a couple of questions.

You're right of course about the meter phenomena that occur in SOLO auditing. I did the OT levels too and witnessed the falls and F/Ns and all that.

My question is this: Has anyone ever had a meter hooked up to them for a whole day? Like during regular life activities, including sleep, working, bathroom activities, etc., watching TV?

Are there falls, BDs, F/Ns?

Does it have to mean anything? Could there possibly be NO SIGNIFICANCE AT ALL?

I learned (through the combination of endless e-meter drilling and solo auditing) that I could (and did) cause needle and meter reactions with my thoughts. Perhaps that's the ONLY significance.

Any info you have about what the needle might be doing when one is not "in session" would be useful.
 
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DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Hi Paul, I just read your OP for the first time and have a couple of questions.

You're right of course about the meter phenomena that occur in SOLO auditing. I did the OT levels too and witnessed the falls and F/Ns and all that.

My question is this: Has anyone ever had a meter hooked up to them for a whole day? Like during regular life activities, including sleep, working, bathroom activities, etc., watching TV?

Are there falls, BDs, F/Ns?

Does it have to mean anything? Could there possibly be NO SIGNIFICANCE AT ALL?

I learned (through the combination of endless e-meter drilling and solo auditing) that I could (and did) cause needle and meter reactions with my thoughts. Perhaps that's the ONLY significance.

Any info you have about what the needle might be doing when one is not "in session" would be useful.
I've done that while watching TV and it made me feel like I'd just had an auditing session, this was about 8 years ago, right before I bought my 1st zapper to see if I could duplicate the phenomenon - I could and did. Of course this is just my opinion as there are those on the board that would demand a full report, notorized by accredited sources etc. I just don't have time to play their games. Try it yourself for your own subjective results.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
There are still people among us who sincerely believe in BTs and clusters.

Be gentle with them, their mental state remains real fragile.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Paul, I once had an OT 4, L12 friend tell me that his POV was that one can inadvertently refill one's BT quota by having sex with fucked up, BT laden partners as you will have a cleaner space that will draw them into your vacuum!? Any truth to this from your perspective, as in 2 vessels will find their equilibrium by being connected?

Lie down with dogs and rise with fleas?

I don't know. If any attractive BT-laden women want to visit me and try the experiment, I'll hook up an e-meter and video it. (The e-meter session, not the preliminary stuff). Let me know. :)

Paul
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
My question is this: Has anyone ever had a meter hooked up to them for a whole day? Like during regular life activities, including sleep, working, bathroom activities, etc., watching TV?

Are there falls, BDs, F/Ns?

Does it have to mean anything? Could there possibly be NO SIGNIFICANCE AT ALL?

I learned (through the combination of endless e-meter drilling and solo auditing) that I could (and did) cause needle and meter reactions with my thoughts. Perhaps that's the ONLY significance.

Any info you have about what the needle might be doing when one is not "in session" would be useful.

I have a dozen or so meter videos at my YouTube esmbdof channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/esmbdof), almost none of which involve a session. They include ground-breaking things like underwater metering, available nowhere else on the planet.

Remember that ghastly e-meter drill where you read a bulletin and the poor student is supposed to look for reads and blowdowns while the needle slowly rises and does absolutely nothing at all? Well, in reality, if the person gets to interact with his environment you can get some action going on. However, the sleep factor is VERY important: there are a couple of videos in that link above showing the difference in needle response an hour's sleep makes. The first one I'd had 8 hours sleep and felt rested etc and the needle was stuck rigid. The second one was a couple of hours later after I'd had extra sleep I didn't feel I needed and the needle was as floppy as an octogenarian's dick.

Paul
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
There are still people among us who sincerely believe in BTs and clusters.

Be gentle with them, their mental state remains real fragile.
There is nothing in the world that has the capacity of eroding one’s sanity to anywhere near the same extent as in the belief in BT’s and the specter of incidents that could create their eternal dismal existence. Just to buy in to such a miserable phenomenon would result in a person losing faith in the entire universe as well as all of mankind. This could easily explain the suicidal tendencies of Scientologists after they hit the “upper levels”. Who wouldn’t find this to be the most depression inducing psychosis that one could ever be hit with? That everyone is demon possessed? That you could spend 4 quadrillion years glued to functional human beings anuses? There has never been such a story that has spawned the despair as upper level Scientology. I hate to admit, I still slip into my old thought processes where I still have some unresolved buy-ins to all of this rotten tripe. It is singularly the most damaging concept that one could ever be sold…. A volume could be written on the totality of despair these levels have caused in people who would otherwise be sane, sound and still alive…
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
There are still people among us who sincerely believe in BTs and clusters.

Be gentle with them, their mental state remains real fragile.

It's amazing!
Within my first months lurking over here,
I taught it was for fun that people ask for how to audit body thetans ... :melodramatic:

I might be arrogant but I feel it's very sad to have mentally sain people to beleive they are ''hijacked'' from body thetans and then ''audit'' a paranoid nevrosis that belong to LRH in a way they create into their own mind a certainty they had and still have these entities stuck to them.
:no::unsure:
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
It's amazing!
Within my first months lurking over here,
I taught it was for fun that people ask for how to audit body thetans ... :melodramatic:

I might be arrogant but I feel it's very sad to have mentally sain people to beleive they are ''hijacked'' from body thetans and then ''audit'' a paranoid nevrosis that belong to LRH in a way they create into their own mind a certainty they had and still have these entities stuck to them.
:no::unsure:
You seem to understand. There is NOTHING like the belief that degraded thetans are stuck everywhere, which alludes to your own likely future fate. And that the the eintire universe is designed to crush and imprison you and without this Hubbard loon, you will be trapped for eternity. These very thoughts have caused virtual resperatory arrest in me repeatedly around 2 or 3 in the morning with nightmares that I won't even contaminate you with. There is nothing worse than the belief that the very universe that you should trust in order to find love, peace and enjoyment in is nothing but a crushing bloodbath of horrors that would leave you imprisoned for millions of years and beyond. Halloween can't begin to compare to Scientology and there is nothing funny or entertaining about it whatsoever, GOT IT?
 

NCSP

Patron Meritorious
Hi Paul, I just read your OP for the first time and have a couple of questions.

You're right of course about the meter phenomena that occur in SOLO auditing. I did the OT levels too and witnessed the falls and F/Ns and all that.

My question is this: Has anyone ever had a meter hooked up to them for a whole day? Like during regular life activities, including sleep, working, bathroom activities, etc., watching TV?

Are there falls, BDs, F/Ns?

Does it have to mean anything? Could there possibly be NO SIGNIFICANCE AT ALL?

I learned (through the combination of endless e-meter drilling and solo auditing) that I could (and did) cause needle and meter reactions with my thoughts. Perhaps that's the ONLY significance.

Any info you have about what the needle might be doing when one is not "in session" would be useful.

Do you think that what you might be causing with your thoughts are small unconscious movements or physical changes that are too tiny to notice consciously but that the meter may pick up on? Slight tension causing a small tightening of the grip, a little sweat, etc.

I read something not long ago about some research that showed that when some people think in words, they unconsciously and subtly move their vocal cords and throat muscles as if they're actually saying what they're thinking, and that one could "read minds" if a device could be developed that would interpret these movements.
 
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