People newly out of scientology & ESMB

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
On the topic of boards in general, I find ESMB falls into the pretty mild in comparison to some of the wild & wooly ones out there that formed way back when a round some meek topic and evolved into rough & tumble free for alls of this clique vs that clique ( complete with players switching sides every now & again ).

To me, it has always seemed an internet board is a hard place for the thin skinned to find a home while those with a tougher hide - due to the nature of net posts - seem to fare somewhat better in putting up with it.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Oh, there ain't much in the world that can't be improved on next Monday morning.

On the like / dislike thing I can see where it seemed like a good idea at the time.
After seeing it for a few years could it now be tweaked ? Yeah, but probably a few dozen other things are more critical & demanding of limited manpower available.

It is a whole page that can be ignored or obsessed over - just like everything else.

I think having a like and/or thanks button is fine. Dislike, post ratings, all that sort of thing, tends to be drama generators and is often used in venting exercises. I have never ever used "dislike", though I have certainly indicated when I didn't care for something stated.

And posting stats- which has happened here- particularly about who gets a bunch of dislikes (without caveat about crazy old bats) is not the best idea.

Like I said, a good friend of mine said, hey, why not post stats about who presses/selects dislikes vs likes. Hey, yanno, great idea, if site owners are gonna single people out at all.
 

ethercat

Cat in flight
I think you'l find a simplified set of rules under Mick.

"Don't be an asshole".

Ethercat will probably have her own say.

Mine are summed up easily, pretty much a slightly longer version of Mick's:
Be nice. Don't hit. Don't run with scissors. Try not to make a mess, and if you do, clean it up.

I would have thought everyone would understand what "nice" means, but after reading this thread, I'm not so sure, so I'll define what I mean by "nice".

Nice does not equal pablum.
Nice does not equal agreement.
Nice does not equal censoring your thoughts.

Nice means not abusing other people.
Nice means accepting that other people may think differently than you.
Nice means treating other people and their varied opinions with respect.
Nice means trying not to hurt people's feelings - by real world standards, not by scientology standards.
Nice means not being mean, but sometimes being tough.

Sometimes, too, something may not seem nice at first, but later it does. I'll tell a personal story to illustrate this.

Most people probably know I was never in scientology, but that I had a friend who was. Soon after I found the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology, I asked for advice on how to deal with my friend and his obsession. Joe Harrington (RIP) said: "Forget your friend."

At the time, I thought that was about the cruelest thing anyone could have said to me. Later, I came to understand that Joe wasn't being cruel; he was being realistic. Now, with many more years of scientology-watching under my belt, that one statement sticks in my head as one of the best things anyone could have said to me.

I'm sorry Joe's not around anymore so I can tell him how much I appreciate that advice now.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Mine are summed up easily, pretty much a slightly longer version of Mick's:
Be nice. Don't hit. Don't run with scissors. Try not to make a mess, and if you do, clean it up.

I would have thought everyone would understand what "nice" means, but after reading this thread, I'm not so sure, so I'll define what I mean by "nice".

Nice does not equal pablum.
Nice does not equal agreement.
Nice does not equal censoring your thoughts.

Nice means not abusing other people.
Nice means accepting that other people may think differently than you.
Nice means treating other people and their varied opinions with respect.
Nice means trying not to hurt people's feelings - by real world standards, not by scientology standards.
Nice means not being mean, but sometimes being tough.

Sometimes, too, something may not seem nice at first, but later it does. I'll tell a personal story to illustrate this.

Most people probably know I was never in scientology, but that I had a friend who was. Soon after I found the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology, I asked for advice on how to deal with my friend and his obsession. Joe Harrington (RIP) said: "Forget your friend."

At the time, I thought that was about the cruelest thing anyone could have said to me. Later, I came to understand that Joe wasn't being cruel; he was being realistic. Now, with many more years of scientology-watching under my belt, that one statement sticks in my head as one of the best things anyone could have said to me.

I'm sorry Joe's not around anymore so I can tell him how much I appreciate that advice now.

Bad advice even if often valid. Specially now which is a different era and set of circumstances to Joe's times.

Stick by your friends. When they won't stick to you, be there for them
in case they change direction. Lots of that going on now!
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Mine are summed up easily, pretty much a slightly longer version of Mick's:
Be nice. Don't hit. Don't run with scissors. Try not to make a mess, and if you do, clean it up.

I would have thought everyone would understand what "nice" means, but after reading this thread, I'm not so sure, so I'll define what I mean by "nice".

Nice does not equal pablum.
Nice does not equal agreement.
Nice does not equal censoring your thoughts.

Nice means not abusing other people.
Nice means accepting that other people may think differently than you.
Nice means treating other people and their varied opinions with respect.
Nice means trying not to hurt people's feelings - by real world standards, not by scientology standards.
Nice means not being mean, but sometimes being tough.

Sometimes, too, something may not seem nice at first, but later it does. I'll tell a personal story to illustrate this.

Most people probably know I was never in scientology, but that I had a friend who was. Soon after I found the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology, I asked for advice on how to deal with my friend and his obsession. Joe Harrington (RIP) said: "Forget your friend."

At the time, I thought that was about the cruelest thing anyone could have said to me. Later, I came to understand that Joe wasn't being cruel; he was being realistic. Now, with many more years of scientology-watching under my belt, that one statement sticks in my head as one of the best things anyone could have said to me.

I'm sorry Joe's not around anymore so I can tell him how much I appreciate that advice now.

Thanks EC. It's amazing how a little word like "nice" can cause such major waves at times. It's certainly not a word associated with scientology.

Someone even wrote a book about it! "The Meaning of Nice" -

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2012/th...-civility-can-change-your-life-and-the-world/
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I like the term "civil" or "civility" in re posting. Of course people should be kind and nice. I'm all for it, but in making recommendations for workable posting tech (kidding!) I'd say civility would be a better buzzphrase. There are times when that may be the better option and it gives better scope for disagreement and passionate debate.

I'd also like to see a caveat against sententiousness...it's often passive aggressive and is anything but nice.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Joe's advice

Joe was, from what I could tell, a rather amazing wonderful person. I get what he meant but I also see what Terril is saying.

My suggestion would be to take it on an individual basis. (If I were at work, I'd say "Case by case basis" but saying that here could sound like Scn-ese, whch is not my intention).

There are times when you gotta know when to hold 'em and you gotta know when to fold 'em.
 
I like the term "civil" or "civility" in re posting. Of course people should be kind and nice. I'm all for it, but in making recommendations for workable posting tech (kidding!) I'd say civility would be a better buzzphrase. There are times when that may be the better option and it gives better scope for disagreement and passionate debate.

I'd also like to see a caveat against sententiousness...it's often passive aggressive and is anything but nice.

sen·ten·tious (sn-tnshs)
adj.
1. Terse and energetic in expression; pithy.
2.
a. Abounding in aphorisms.
b. Given to aphoristic utterances.
3.
a. Abounding in pompous moralizing.
b. Given to pompous moralizing.

Mmmmm............ Seems like a nice assortment of words to reprimand a poster.

Let me practise. ".....(Name) Please cease your abundance of pompous moralizing..."
"The Board Rules do not allow for sententiousness. Desist please".
"Your aphoristic utterances impede expedient intercourse. Would you
kindly put them aside"
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I was talking about ths likes/dislikes thing with a good friend- soon after I was singled out (due to two people clicking a whoooolllle lotta dislikes on my posts) publicly here re that "stat". He said it's a drama generator and that it might make more sense to post a different sort of stat- the ratio of likes/dislikes the person presses, not receives.

I think he's right.

I see someone just proved my point.
 

ethercat

Cat in flight
Bad advice even if often valid. Specially now which is a different era and set of circumstances to Joe's times.

Stick by your friends. When they won't stick to you, be there for them
in case they change direction. Lots of that going on now!

I did stick by him, Terril. I stuck by him till he disconnected from me. He has, since, contacted me twice. Once, on a mission to get me to take down my critical websites. The second time, sent just hours before the first Candlelight Vigil for Patrick Desmond. I suspect that was a mission too, to divert my attention from the vigil.

If he ever comes out of scientology, I will be there for him. But until he has really left, he's just not trustworthy.

Obviously, I haven't forgotten him, as Joe advised. But it was good advice, because my friend is gone. The person I knew and loved is gone, and there's another personality occupying his body now.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
I'll take "honest" over "nice" every time.

Me too, but there is such a thing as tact, which involves consideration. Even brutal honesty can be presented 'nicely' imho, depends on how much effort one puts into it and whether or not a person cares enough about the recipient's state of mind/feelings etc.
Just a wee Oggy thought :)
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I think one can do a tactical retreat- particularly if the person is or may not be trustworthy- and still have love for the person and be ready to assist someday when things change.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think having a like and/or thanks button is fine. Dislike, post ratings, all that sort of thing, tends to be drama generators and is often used in venting exercises. I have never ever used "dislike", though I have certainly indicated when I didn't care for something stated.

And posting stats- which has happened here- particularly about who gets a bunch of dislikes (without caveat about crazy old bats) is not the best idea.

Like I said, a good friend of mine said, hey, why not post stats about who presses/selects dislikes vs likes. Hey, yanno, great idea, if site owners are gonna single people out at all.

Just so you know, the reason I clicked "dislike" of this particular post of yours is because you referred to some people/posters here as "crazy old bats." Could be wrong, but I think that's against the ROCs...

:eyeroll:
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
You are, in fact, wrong as I did not name anyone.

If writing that way were against the ROCs, you'd have run into that same scenario a number of times.

Anyway, I was thinking, ya see, that it's an interesting phenom, to me, that no matter what I write about my experiences in the cult, or deplorable things that happened to others, or any criticism I write of the cult, you never ever say anything. Ever. No, you just look for other stuff like the earlier post I wrote here or the taunt about whether I call myself an OT, etc. And we both know why.

And that is exactly why I could never take your responses to me, or the things you write here about me as anything correct or true or sensible in any way.

I trust that sets matters straight. In fact, I'm sure that it does.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
I smell another~

derailment.jpg



What was the subject again? :confused2:



:coolwink:
 
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