People newly out of scientology & ESMB

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
..

A couple of questions come to mind because my initial gut instinct to this theme is that it seems a slippery slope. By endorsing Martyworld, even with praise as scant as "a necessary evil" or "a stepping stone", aren't we also endorsing the application of yet more Scientology on people who have just escaped Scientology? That's the last thing they need.

Also, what's the difference between taking the piss out of "the things Scientologists say" on Facebook and taking the piss out of "the things Scientologists say" on Martyworld? They say the same sorts of things, they both promote L Ron Hubbard idiocy as fact, and they both want to Keep Scientology Working.

No I don't think so. This is the argument used by those who think Marty is aiming to take over ESMB and create a more "pro scientology" venue.

The thing is that more scientology may indeed be the last thing they need, but we can only present information. An individual has to be ready to find those roads out. It's hard to exlplain to someone who hasn't experienced the mind fuck ... sometimes it does come as such a shock that retreating into what they feel is a 'safer environment' is just gonna happen. I really agree with you about Marty, but I don't think that tolerance here is a slippery slope to anything.
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
P&B - I've been here almost since the board started. In many ways it is waaaaay better than back then, when flame wars were almost daily as the first tentative balances were found. It ebbs and flows now depending on who happens to be around.

This particular issue has existed since the board started, and I meant my OP to be a reminder, is all. Your sentence states it nicely "So I guess all I have to say is having some compassion and tolerance for the Scientologists that come here would make ESMB a better place for those just leaving the Co$. There are going to be a lot more leaving. Better to have them here than under Marty's spell, of that I have no doubt. "

I hope that more people who have 'graduated" from the wild pro and anti swinging views post more often and help keep that balance right. :)

I don't see any ebbing and flowing of late. It's primarily anti-scientology. If you're a Scientologist you'd be nuts to hang out here.

Who is balancing? Terril, MAB, RogerB, ...? LOL highly out-numbered. Leon & Ted are pretty much gone. There's nothing here for that side of the swamp. RogerB hasn't posted anything of technical interest in a long while. I don't see it swinging back and forth and I'm sure the active posters in the main today are quite happy to have it that way.

Even Emma has given up. So I suppose I should shut-up and go add a new post to Hoaxies Top 100 Stupid thread or something :biggrin:
 

NCSP

Patron Meritorious
You'e correct about there being no comparison, however, there is something to be said for what he's trying to say there. If you want to be a member of ESMB then you best adopt an anti-scientology stance or face the consequences. What consequences? Redicule, being called stupid, brainwashed, deluded, etc. Well of course they can just choose to go somewhere else.

There was a time on this board where you could be tech favorable and you wouldn't get your head shot off every time you posted. That's the difference.

I guess it was Alan Walter's passing that heralded the shift (end of 2008). Alan was not a scio, but he certainly was a techy. He took his shots from time to time for sure, but he was a very popular ESMBer.

It's true that he has a point -- he can't be wrong about his own reactions and feelings, after all. I just thought that particular comparison needed to be refuted. And I wonder where the line between "spirited rebuttal" and "head shot" is, and who ought to be policing that line.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Fair or not, a poster here had better quickly dislike LRH and Scientology or be ready for a fight. So, a new person coming here, still impressed with either is likely to be driven off. Dulloldfart even warned me not to post positive stuff about LRH and Scientology.

So, I wonder, if one is truly discouraged from posting exactly what one thinks without being attacked, how is that different from Marty's site?

I know Veda likes to start threads encouraging individuals to expose their "true feelings" about LRH, Scientology or the Tech. All with the supposed purpose of coming to greater understanding I guess. Then the re-indoctrination begins. Expose your ideas and feelings so we can remold them into more acceptable ideas and feelings. Re-education at its most astute.

To me, ideas and feelings are just ideas and feelings. Anyone can have any idea or feeling they want. I encourage my kids to have a wide range of ideas and feelings. I encourage them to have contradictory ones if they feel like it. Why not? It's just an idea. Not that important.

It's just when those ideas become harmful behavior that I draw the line.

Thinking? Think what you want. Talk about what you want. Believe what you want.

As far as I'm concerned a person can believe that LRH was sent by God and that Scientology is man's only hope. I don't really care. I don't feel compelled to correct them.

If Scientology is so horrible because of the mind control of demanding agreement and "correct thought," how is it different to control minds here by vehemently corralling thought into "acceptable thoughts" and "unacceptable thoughts?"

Mostly, just to be honest (which is undoubtedly going to offend a few) my experiences here are not inspirational. Not a mental high. Much more pedestrian. Like glancing at the news to see what's happening.

And to get along, I mostly water down my posts.

I'm sure I'm not alone.

And I'm sure people leave because of having to watch what they say to avoid being shot down for disagreeing.

Which is a loss for all of us.

Yeah, I agree this is a problem. To a point.

I don't agree in a forced gradient of 0-3 months like an earlier poster suggested, but can we maybe have a subforum that is considered a "safe" zone for the wheat and chaff exercises? If you don't like it, don't go there - not even to "save" people from Terrill (whose FZ tech cafeteria approach seems pretty harmless to me).

I worry that the black and white thinking when it comes to LRH and the tech being universally bad is an extension of the black and white thinking that the Co$ forces on people. Personally, I think that the early Dn and Self-Analysis stuff that LRH ripped off from psychs is fairly harmless. Even some of the OT stuff, while eccentric, isn't inherently harmful when taken off of a tech buffet without the Co$ abuses. I've talked to enough Fz'ers to believe that most of them are taking a "cafeteria" approach to the tech, and most of the ones I've talked to even have a pretty balanced view of LRH - the good, the bad, and the ugly.

At the end of the day, I've let go of the entry level Dn stuff I dabbled with, and don't find it useful at all. But beliefs, even in BT's, don't seem inherently harmful. The Anon manifestos that I agree with all target the Co$ / Corporate $cn with its financial and human rights abuses. Not the beliefs themselves, or non-Co$ practices that are not inherently abusive. While I appreciate a safe environment to be able to declare that I find it all to be bullshit, I don't object to a sub-forum where this is off-limits.
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
You'e correct about there being no comparison, however, there is something to be said for what he's trying to say there. If you want to be a member of ESMB then you best adopt an anti-scientology stance or face the consequences. What consequences? Redicule, being called stupid, brainwashed, deluded, etc. Well of course they can just choose to go somewhere else.

There was a time on this board where you could be tech favorable and you wouldn't get your head shot off every time you posted. That's the difference.

I guess it was Alan Walter's passing that heralded the shift (end of 2008). Alan was not a scio, but he certainly was a techy. He took his shots from time to time for sure, but he was a very popular ESMBer.

I think you are right on this. Alan Walter was an ex-scio and was done with Hubbard, but was still very interested and active in forwarding the idea of a betterment activity for man.

His power of personality and thought kept a balance in place so that yes, Scn be damned, but a betterment activity resulting in self improvement was valid, should be pursued and was available.

Since his passing we may be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
 

Operating DB

Truman Show Dropout
Random Thought: Steve has only just resigned from the CofS. Some who post here have been out for decades and seem to have little understanding of the current scientological mindset, IMO.

Scientology Today (lol) is NOTHING like Scientology Yesterday. I left 4 years ago and I am regularly astounded at some of the changes which have occurred within the CofS in that short 4 years. Of course, some of the basic tenets and ideology remain intact but I'm referring to the mindset being inculcated in the current crop of scientologists. They're bewildered!

Four short years??? How many scientology Yesterdays are there? It's mind boggling how many incarnations the cult has gone thru in six decades. I was in the mindset of 1985 when I escaped. When I read of personal accounts of any person who has escaped since then I find it hard to comprehend the crap they went thorough. The later the time they escaped the more bewildering it becomes.

At the time I escaped (Jan 5, 1985) I knew there was something wrong with management but still thought hubbard was infallible. I think it's "natural" for something escaping to initially have this view. Back in 1985 with no internet and only a few Jon Zegal tapes, and several AAC journals and a couple books it didn't take me long to discover that hubbard was the source of all the crap.

If someone new posts on here with that "hubbard is still good" view I think back to how I felt the same way when I first escaped and hope that as these newbies do more research they too will learn what I learned. Therefore I refrain from criticizing them and let them find their own way.

But it still boggles my mind that a small percentage who have left the cult still think hubbard is god even when presented with incontrovertible proof. What's up with that? I struggle to understand.
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
No I don't think so. This is the argument used by those who think Marty is aiming to take over ESMB and create a more "pro scientology" venue.

The thing is that more scientology may indeed be the last thing they need, but we can only present information. An individual has to be ready to find those roads out. It's hard to exlplain to someone who hasn't experienced the mind fuck ... sometimes it does come as such a shock that retreating into what they feel is a 'safer environment' is just gonna happen. I really agree with you about Marty, but I don't think that tolerance here is a slippery slope to anything.

I just want to be clear that I am not arguing for a pro-scientology venue. I think any idea that Marty is trying to do anything here at ESMB is silly. Marty thinks this place is one huge natterbox filled with defrocked apostate NCG SPs. lol

I do think that it should be possible for ex-scientologists that still think there is some path to be followed along the lines of 'tech' to have a place here.

When one get's out of the Co$ these day's it's usually because they have seen the kind of shit that caused Steve to finally leave - out-tech and violation of policy. They have not come to some realization that Hubbard was full of shot usually. That's why Marty's getting them. I don't even know why I'm writing this, you all already know this shit.

I just would prefer that ESMB was the place to come. A person can find the facts here. Marty just keeps the lies alive.
 
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PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
It's true that he has a point -- he can't be wrong about his own reactions and feelings, after all. I just thought that particular comparison needed to be refuted. And I wonder where the line between "spirited rebuttal" and "head shot" is, and who ought to be policing that line.

I'm not one for stifling speech. I leave it to the mods to moderate forum rule violations. Head shots can be fully in conformance with the rules :)
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
No I don't think so. This is the argument used by those who think Marty is aiming to take over ESMB and create a more "pro scientology" venue.

You say you don't think so. Why is that?

The thing is that more scientology may indeed be the last thing they need, but we can only present information. An individual has to be ready to find those roads out. It's hard to exlplain to someone who hasn't experienced the mind fuck ... sometimes it does come as such a shock that retreating into what they feel is a 'safer environment' is just gonna happen. I really agree with you about Marty, but I don't think that tolerance here is a slippery slope to anything.

ESMB provides a lot more than information. Despite the rather bleak prognosis, ESMB is a source of considerable comfort, compassion, companionship, and understanding. I see it here every time I log on. Remember also the information Marty presents deliberately excludes the very information these people need. He hides the map showing the route out. According to him " . . . there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are “tied up” under siege . . ." Its not a lack of tolerance by ESMB, its a lack of tolerance extending to fear mongering at Martyworld against those who speak their truth.

The slippery slope aspect comes in by reinforcing their arrival at Martyworld as something positive. Its not. What's positive is that they have left the cult - excellent - but get the hell away from the M&M Show too, especially if you're fresh out. These recent escapees need professional assistance to overcome the mindfuck, not effusive outpourings of theta affinity and resonating duplication with follow-up [STRIKE]regging[/STRIKE] personal offers of more Kool Aid. Each and every "declaration" contains within it sufficient information to locate that person's current "ruin" and, without outside assistance to bring them to an understanding of what's what, they are sitting ducks.

Here's what one Independent wrote to recent escapee Kay Rowe:

Kay, unburden yourself of all of your undelivered communication, but don't forget that you have regained all of your dynamics now and get yourself up the bridge ASAP. Handle any and all wrong indications, etc. and get the gains that wait for you on the OT levels. If I can help, let me know as my services are available everywhere there is an Internet. As someone else said, you can be on your upper OT levels this year. You have earned that right. :)

or what about this one from, I think, a Freezoner:

Kay, Thanks for the speedy reply! I've been out since 04'. I've seen many people leave the Church since then and there is a common thread to those leaving, normally to report everything for some time then peter out with no bridge progress to follow.It's something that is cathartic for them but in the end they getlost, or so it seems. To put things in perspective I was a past life unattested Clear, FLAG trained class IV when I left. I did my CCRD and L11 soon after leaving. In the last 15 months I've done OT 1 through 6 and am now on Solo NOTS. It really doesn't take long to do and and is a small percentage of the cost on the outside to do and do standardly. My point in all of this is this one thing. What is needed and wanted is for you to get up the bridge as standardly and quickly as possible, everything else is dross in comparison. There is a destimulation period when one gets out but that can be easily handled with one of the very fine leaving the church correction lists available through Trey Lotz in LA or many others including myself elsewhere than LA. DM and his creation/alteration is a theta trap to put it bluntly. It tends to persist because there is a multitude of lies behind it per our Axioms, as I am sure you are very aware of. It is far more important to get up the bridge than to dwell on his alter is'ing for too long. Ethics, justice, and the Dynamics PL applies full well to him and is being played out currently. The end is not too far away for him and he knows it, based on his recent actions. It would be great to see you on OT IV by March as a good hard target. That would be the best thing you could do for everyone and yourself. Don't get too sucked in to what DM is doing as others have done. It's a dramatization for some and a waste of theta, something you have in your short time here, proven to have a ton of! You've done a great job as others have done documenting the out-points. The bridge awaits for you, I hope to see you on OT VII with us by next summer. Remember what LRH said about a brief breath in eternity? :). This is not intended to minimize, invalidate anything, you have or will do. Just what's needed and wanted from this end of the bridge by others and myself who are in need of someone like you. ;)
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I don't see any ebbing and flowing of late. It's primarily anti-scientology. If you're a Scientologist you'd be nuts to hang out here.

Who is balancing? Terril, MAB, RogerB, ...? LOL highly out-numbered. Leon & Ted are pretty much gone. There's nothing here for that side of the swamp. RogerB hasn't posted anything of technical interest in a long while. I don't see it swinging back and forth and I'm sure the active posters in the main today are quite happy to have it that way.

Even Emma has given up. So I suppose I should shut-up and go add a new post to Hoaxies Top 100 Stupid thread or something :biggrin:



:hysterical:

I have been talking to Indies a lot recently and have decided to rename that thread. It is now called:

TOP 100 NON-STANDARD MOMENTS IN SCIENTOLOGY

With the new GAT (Golden Age of Theta) enhanced thread-title, we are expecting readership to 5.4x with Indies and new-outs being able to come there and have big wins.

All Church of Hoaxology scripture has been purged of the word "stupid" and it is now replaced by the more technically correct and theta terms: "Non Standard", "Squirrel" and/or "Errantly Postulated".
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
You say you don't think so. Why is that?



ESMB provides a lot more than information. Despite the rather bleak prognosis, ESMB is a source of considerable comfort, compassion, companionship, and understanding. I see it here every time I log on. Remember also the information Marty presents deliberately excludes the very information these people need. He hides the map showing the route out. According to him " . . . there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are “tied up” under siege . . ." Its not a lack of tolerance on ESMB, its a lack of tolerance extending to fear mongering at Martyworld against those who speak their truth.

The slippery slope aspect comes in by reinforcing their arrival at Martyworld as something positive. Its not. What's positive is that they have left the cult - excellent - but get the hell away from the M&M Show too, especially if you're fresh out. These recent escapees need professional assistance to overcome the mindfuck, not effusive outpourings of theta affinity and resonating duplication with follow-up [STRIKE]regging[/STRIKE] personal offers of more Kool Aid. Each and every "declaration" contains within it sufficient information to locate that person's current "ruin" and, without outside assistance to bring them to an understanding of what's what, they are sitting ducks.

Infinite - you say "endorsing", I say "tolerating".

Have you forgotten Arnie Lerma's 8 steps out of scientology?

I was in the cult and on staff for 10 years... here are the stages I have seen... as one exits the 'Hubbardian' mind control program....

1) There is something wrong here, if this is so great, then
why is (______) going on?

[ insert whatever atrocity you have recently witnessed ]

2) The guys at the top must be crazy

3) Miscavige and crew are evil demons from another dimension
[ or something similar ]


4) Hubbard went crazy at the end .....

5) Hubbard went crazy in 1966

6) Hubbard was mad from the start.

7) This whole thing is a complete fraud

8) my god, its a criminal organization... with criminal convictions
all over the world... and it was only about money

9) realization that THERE ARE NO OT's THERE!

10) realizing, after leaving Scientology, this makes one an ex-nazi and wanting to do something about it
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/8steps.html

Marty is at No. 3 and doesn't look like progressing on from that. But that doesn't mean others won't ... once someone is free to actually read the internet then they either do or they don't - it takes time. As well as people who are happy to fall under another authoritarian father figure, there are those who are hungry for the truth and don't stick around there too long. They are the ones who may drift over here.

In no way do I endorse Marty's opinions and to be honest I hate that what you outline so graphically can happen. My view is that Martyworld is Martyworld and if it saves one person from descending into a hell without hope, then to me it is a necessary evil. And that hell without hope is the thought that there is no-one who understands. And it is hell, I have been there. Let's provide some understanding.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Originally Posted by Infinite
ESMB provides a lot more than information. Despite the rather bleak prognosis, ESMB is a source of considerable comfort, compassion, companionship, and understanding. I see it here every time I log on. Remember also the information Marty presents deliberately excludes the very information these people need. He hides the map showing the route out. According to him " . . . there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are “tied up” under siege . . ." Its not a lack of tolerance on ESMB, its a lack of tolerance extending to fear mongering at Martyworld against those who speak their truth.

The slippery slope aspect comes in by reinforcing their arrival at Martyworld as something positive. Its not. What's positive is that they have left the cult - excellent - but get the hell away from the M&M Show too, especially if you're fresh out. These recent escapees need professional assistance to overcome the mindfuck, not effusive outpourings of theta affinity and resonating duplication with follow-up regging personal offers of more Kool Aid. Each and every "declaration" contains within it sufficient information to locate that person's current "ruin" and, without outside assistance to bring them to an understanding of what's what, they are sitting ducks.


CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY = BIG LIES ABOUT THE BRIDGE + LOVEBOMBING

INDIE SCIENTOLOGY = LIES ABOUT THE BRIDGE + THETABOMBING

ESMB = TRUTH ABOUT THE BRIDGE + TRUTHBOMBING
 
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PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think you are right on this. Alan Walter was an ex-scio and was done with Hubbard, but was still very interested and active in forwarding the idea of a betterment activity for man.

His power of personality and thought kept a balance in place so that yes, Scn be damned, but a betterment activity resulting in self improvement was valid, should be pursued and was available.

Since his passing we may be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Yep. That's where I'm coming form. I think there is something to the idea of personal spiritual development. Hubbard certainly managed to tarnish (or vaporize) that for many. I think that's unfortunate.

I guess I'm just your typical wacko. Believes in shadow government, that alien races are among us, bases on the moon and mars, intradimensional travel, free energy and anti-gravity exist, that the world is dire dodo and about to come unglued and it scares the hell out of me. (lol, out of the scio frying pan but still into other fires.)

I'm still looking for higher spiritual states. Since breaking free from the mind-grip of scientology I have had the opportunity to explore the myriad of possible routes. Hubbard's world is now for me quite a restricted one.

That so many have thrown the baby out does sadden me, but we all have our lives to lead and our choices to make. I certainly can understand - once burned twice shy.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Infinite - you say "endorsing", I say "tolerating".

Have you forgotten Arnie Lerma's 8 steps out of scientology?



Marty is at No. 3 and doesn't look like progressing on from that. But that doesn't mean others won't ... once someone is free to actually read the internet then they either do or they don't - it takes time. As well as people who are happy to fall under another authoritarian father figure, there are those who are hungry for the truth and don't stick around there too long. They are the ones who may drift over here.

In no way do I endorse Marty's opinions and to be honest I hate that what you outline so graphically can happen. My view is that Martyworld is Martyworld and if it saves one person from descending into a hell without hope, then to me it is a necessary evil. And that hell without hope is the thought that there is no-one who understands. And it is hell, I have been there. Let's provide some understanding.


MartyWorld is like the morning after really, really, really partying hard.

The Scientologist's hangover is a killah!

Marty offers them a "hair of the dog that bit you" cure. He pours a stiff morning-after drink and cheerfully says "Bottoms up!" (Actually he says "what turned it on turns it off")

ESMB is cold turkey and sometimes it ain't pretty.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
One day, and hopefully it will be before I die, I'll see people reach an understanding that you do not have to water down your opinion to remain civil & respectful.

"in my opinion LRH was a con man and many people are still under his spell" does not have to be delivered as "you are a stupid retard for still being a clam".

Luvs ya, Emma...J-U-S-T S-I-M-P-L-Y L-U-V-S Y-A!!!:love8::rose::bighug:

W-O-N-D-E-R-F-U-L O-P FTS!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::yes::yes::yes::clap::clap::clap:

When I first signed on here I waited a week or two before I made my first post. I had been Lurking here for nearly 6 months. I made my first post on a Thread that was pretty much dead at that time and forgotten about (about the Apollo Stars and the Power of Source album) but was of interest and importance to me personally. In retrospect, fortunately for me not much of any one noticed I was here.

After a few weeks of making those first few posts I made a few tentative posts on the Apollo Thread in its early days and a some real fine Folks there...Carmelo, Ted, Rog and the long gone BlueSpirit in particular...deftly opened up me can of squirmin' worms.

After some months I ventured out and posted, here and there, more on the Board and a year later started a Thread called "Shooting Stars" about my Life and Times with El Ron which I'm still trying to finish and has gone far, far beyond what I ever thought I would share and say to anyone about Hisself before I died.

Now, I've been "roughed up" some here on this Board after the several months when I first ventured out from the Apollo Thread and after my first couple of obscure, barely noticed posts and previous 6 months of lurking and reading heavily what was the content of this Board as of the end of January, 2010...almost folded my tent a couple of times...Carmelo, bless his golden and good heart, back channel kept me going.

I've tried to "intercede" a few times when I've seen a sincere and "real" Newbie--IMHO for want of a better term--getting "savaged", "grandstanded" or "hazed" and have been slapped around for it. I've done some PMing to those Newbies on and off, trying to help them "find their wings", but I just can't handle, keep up with and do what I wish I could anymore.

I L-O-V-E ESMB and all Y'all and I don't mean this as a condemnation of any of Y'all...I'm just sayin'...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4BYOJ1tc-k

Peace. :)

Face:)
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Infinite - you say "endorsing", I say "tolerating".

Have you forgotten Arnie Lerma's 8 steps out of scientology?



Marty is at No. 3 and doesn't look like progressing on from that. But that doesn't mean others won't ... once someone is free to actually read the internet then they either do or they don't - it takes time. As well as people who are happy to fall under another authoritarian father figure, there are those who are hungry for the truth and don't stick around there too long. They are the ones who may drift over here.

In no way do I endorse Marty's opinions and to be honest I hate that what you outline so graphically can happen. My view is that Martyworld is Martyworld and if it saves one person from descending into a hell without hope, then to me it is a necessary evil. And that hell without hope is the thought that there is no-one who understands. And it is hell, I have been there. Let's provide some understanding.

I'm happy to tolerate Martyworld, its the price we pay for free speech on the internet. Doesn't mean I have to like it let alone support the fact that it is a carefully designed sandtrap set deliberately to snare fresh-out Scientology escapees. And, no, I haven't forgotten Arnie's 8-steps, they're great and, I believe quite accurate. Trouble is, Martyworld is designed to halt the progress at No. 3 rather than assist people getting through to the end. No doubt Marty will capture a few, but most who pass through Martyworld will simply have their journey delayed. By encouraging a swift departure from there is providing understanding.
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
Luvs ya, Emma...J-U-S-T S-I-M-P-L-Y L-U-V-S Y-A!!!:love8::rose::bighug:

W-O-N-D-E-R-F-U-L O-P FTS!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::yes::yes::yes::clap::clap::clap:

When I first signed on here I waited a week or two before I made my first post. I had been Lurking here for nearly 6 months. I made my first post on a Thread that was pretty much dead at that time and forgotten about (about the Apollo Stars and the Power of Source album) but was of interest and importance to me personally. In retrospect, fortunately for me not much of any one noticed I was here.

After a few weeks of making those first few posts I made a few tentative posts on the Apollo Thread in its early days and a some real fine Folks there...Carmelo, Ted and Rog in particular...deftly opened up me can of squirmin' worms.

After some months I ventured out and posted, here and there, more on the Board and a year later started a Thread called "Shooting Stars" about my Life and Times with El Ron which I'm still trying to finish and has gone far, far beyond what I ever thought I would share and say to anyone about Hisself before I died.

Now, I've been "roughed up" some here on this Board after the several months when I first ventured out from the Apollo Thread and after my first couple of obscure, barely noticed posts and previous 6 months of lurking and reading heavily what was the content of this Board as of the end of January, 2010...almost folded my tent a couple of times...Carmelo, bless his golden and good heart, back channel kept me going.

I've tried to "intercede" a few times when I've seen a sincere and "real" Newbie--IMHO for want of a better term--getting "savaged", "grandstanded" or "hazed" and have been slapped around for it. I've done some PMing to those Newbies on and off, trying to help them "find their wings", but I just can't handle, keep up with and do what I wish I could anymore.

I L-O-V-E ESMB and all Y'all and I don't mean this as a condemnation of any of Y'all...I'm just sayin'...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4BYOJ1tc-k

Peace. :)

Face:)

Great post! great song!

It's all about intention - you speak sooth!
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
MartyWorld is like the morning after really, really, really partying hard.

The Scientologist's hangover is a killah!

Marty offers them a "hair of the dog that bit you" cure. He pours a stiff morning-after drink and cheerfully says "Bottoms up!" (Actually he says "what turned it on turns it off")

ESMB is cold turkey and sometimes it ain't pretty.

Yes indeed HH!

Infinite, you weren't a Scio, so it's not so easy to understand what it's like leaving the church. Leaving your path to spiritual immortality. That's not a small thing for most Scios.

To my mind, it's better that they are away from the Co$ and hanging at Marty's than it is for them to stay in. The primary damage is participating in the Co$. You see Scientology as a bad thing - and on this point I think you have to be more tolerant. To not be is to my mind to be a religious bigot. And oh yeah, let the cries of Scientology is NOT a religion deafen my ears, but the fact is, that a person is free to believe whatever the fuck they want to believe and if they want to believe they are immortal spiritual beings that have lived countless lifetimes and that there are things that they can do to undo their spiritual decline who the fuck are you to say they cannot believe such things? That shit is just as religious as Buddhism.

They are out of the clutches of the Co$ - hooray! Let them go up their Bridge in the freezone if they want. They'll find out when they get to the end what the score is or isn't. At least they aren't going to have to bankrupt themselves or give up their kids to be a cult's slave labor. Or maybe they'll find something better or do nothing at all or become a Mormon!

Are you on a crusade to deprogram Christians too? If not, why not? :biggrin:
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm tired and hungry! So human of me! Therefore I can't string more than a few words together.

Compassion is a concept which has vast beautiful ramifications. :rose:
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
. . . Infinite, you weren't a Scio, so it's not so easy to understand what it's like leaving the church. Leaving your path to spiritual immortality. That's not a small thing for most Scios . . .

I agree. Its not easy to understand but I think I do. An objective perspective does not preclude understanding otherwise there would be no male obstetricians.

To my mind, it's better that they are away from the Co$ and hanging at Marty's than it is for them to stay in. The primary damage is participating in the Co$. You see Scientology as a bad thing - and on this point I think you have to be more tolerant. To not be is to my mind to be a religious bigot. And oh yeah, let the cries of Scientology is NOT a religion deafen my ears, but the fact is, that a person is free to believe whatever the fuck they want to believe and if they want to believe they are immortal spiritual beings that have lived countless lifetimes and that there are things that they can do to undo their spiritual decline who the fuck are you to say they cannot believe such things? That shit is just as religious as Buddhism.

If that is all that Scientology is, no problem. But its not, is it? If I am a religious bigot then so too are all those nations who will not recognise the subject as a religion, including specifically the French, the Germans, and the Russians. Those nations, perhaps more so than any other, know what a nascent totalitarian movement looks like. If people want to believe all that Xenu stuff and nothing else, all good, especially because without all the other stuff, they are not Scientologists. If such people do not wish to be tarred with the same brush, they would be best to heed L Ron Hubbard's dire warnings about irrational adherence to labels, and rebrand.

They are out of the clutches of the Co$ - hooray! Let them go up their Bridge in the freezone if they want. They'll find out when they get to the end what the score is or isn't. At least they aren't going to have to bankrupt themselves or give up their kids to be a cult's slave labor. Or maybe they'll find something better or do nothing at all or become a Mormon!

Sure, but only so long as they have had time to recover from the cult experience and it can said that it is with informed consent they are making up their minds to talk to the disembodied spiritual essence of aliens brought to Earth in UFOs. I have no objection to wogs trying it out in the Freezone but, funny thing, not many want to. This leaves the fresh escapees as prime raw meat and that I object to.

Are you on a crusade to deprogram Christians too? If not, why not? :biggrin:

No, but I am working on denialists and neo-liberals.
 
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