ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

People of Colour ...

Discussion in 'Staff "War Stories"' started by ScienceNotScientology, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. How many of us who are here aren't white? or at least non-Hispanic Caucasian?

    One of the things that really struck me in the Sea Org was the casual, un-examined racism that people had that they didn't even know they had. Particularly annoying was when people would use policy as an excuse/justification. Which isn't to say that Hubbard himself wasn't also racist (he was quite racist) and they are certainly related but I'd like to hear others stories to see if they are similar to mine and what their thoughts are on them?

    Warm Wishes!

  2. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    White folks apparently were more gullible to con men.
  3. Irayam

    Irayam Patron with Honors

    I’m white.
    This not to defend Hubbard, but during his time it was quite common, even normal, to be racist.
    I don’t know if white people are more gullible, but they certainly had more money to waste in 1960 -70.
    DagwoodGum and Leland like this.
  4. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Some references to LRH's thoughts on race:

    Web posting, On Race:
    Also on Lermanet:
  5. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    A good friend of mine (who is Black) had commented to me some years ago that Black people (because of cultural differences) were less likely to get involved with Scientology.

    I didn't really have any ammunition to argue against this back at that time, as Scientology was overwhelmingly White. Now with the involvement of Nation of Islam though that isn't so anymore.

    Speaking of the NOI, I wonder if those who are doing Scientology services actually consider themselves Scientologists. Despite the fact that the "religious scriptures" of Scientology require that one refrain from "other practices", and that Scientology is truly incompatible with any other religion, I get the sense that those within NOI doing Scientology aren't in on the same terms as other Scientologists. Anyone have any knowledge about this?
    Leland likes this.
  6. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Not sure what you mean by this. :questions:

    During my 10 years on Scientology staff, in several different organizations, I never observed racism on the part of staff or Sea Org members. Nor did I see the couple Black staff members being treated any differently than the others.
    Clay Pigeon likes this.
  7. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Keep in mind that NOI is pre-selected for crazy.
  8. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    That's not definitively racist as it is more directed at an aboriginal culture.

    If I recall correctly Hubbard did speak well of some distinctly dark skinned spiritual understanding in Fundamentals of thought.

    For my own part, several of my most valuable teacher/mentors have African-American
  9. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    At the old Riverside Mission (1970s) a black American, Frank Walker, was the head of Div 6.

    From another post here by pineapple, Bent Corydon sent him to be E.D. of the Hawaii Mission.
  10. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Way back then, I once asked Frank Walker why there are so few black people involved.

    He told me (his opinion) that black people have more Service Facsimiles to overcome.

    Don't hate me. I'm just reporting.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  11. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    The Hawaii Org (not the mission) had a black E/O for a long time, guy named Walter Hinton. They also had a black Qual Sec for a while, Larry Myers.

    In Hawaii scn was a very racially mixed scene, but it's that kind of place. Usually the people further up the bridge or more highly trained were white, but there were a lot of non-white public and staff, mostly Asian or Pacific Islander, with an occasional black person. There are actually not a lot of black people (African-Americans) in Hawaii, though some Pacific Islanders can be as dark-skinned as black people.
  12. I'm not feeling like sharing, but lucky you! My experiences were (sadly) not the same. I'll leave it at that for now based on my spoons.

    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  13. I get what you're saying but it's still normal for people to be racist, it's just so subtle a racism that usually it flies under the radar and lays in unexamined assumptions of cultural superiority. Racism is like a deep strain that needs to be washed several times (generations) for it to be removed. #imho
    Irayam likes this.
  14. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    My experience was that Scientology is an equal opportunity oppressor. They will screw you over without regard to what shade your skin is.
  15. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Yeah, our experiences were not the same for all 7 billion of us.

    Given that racism in society IS deeply ingrained I'm sure there were people who came into Scientology that were in fact racist. But Scientologists get indoctrinated into a philosophy which dramatically deemphasizes the importance of (and differences between) bodies. And spiritually, we don't distinguish ourselves by color, gender, etc.
  16. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    What was some casual, unexamined racism that people didn't know that they had?
  17. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    That it is likely that there would be more U.S.blacks of certain descent from tall African tribes that would more likely be better than most whites for professional U.S. basketball.

    When I was young I noticed the difference. When I got older and examined this on internet I now am convinced that this is true.

    Why is it considered to be evil to notice differences between humans of different genetic background?

    (e.g. There are some types of dogs that are better at learning sheep/cow herding and some types are just too small to do it.)
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    screamer2 likes this.
  18. That's not what I'm saying either, if you look at my OP I'm specifically alluding to people using policy to justify or base their racism on ... which is not to say they might have other intersecting racist influences but that in my experience scn was part of that package. I'm glad it was not a part of yours.

    But also that's ("spiritually, we don't distinguish ourselves by color, gender, etc") not true either because there are very racist sentiments within Hubbard's own writings. Particularly in his approach to Black/Native South African's and Chinese.

    I'm suffering through a medical issue at the moment so don't have the energy to share my personal experiences here but the quotes alone should suffice in showing scn racism.
  19. I'm the one without the spoons (energy level is low due to illness) and am asking for others experiences NOT for others to ask me about mine! WHY are people who didn't have similar experiences even commenting on this thread? Ya'all are making ZERO sense ... If your experiences runs counter then idk find another thread about your experiences or about something in scn you know about.

    Here's the least painful one, I suppose I have one spoon I can give for that - picking on ethnic food related to my ethnic parents culture, multiple instances of. Sure it's a microaggression, but it's still hella racist, and an unexamined bias. More painful ones I refuse to write at this time as they would cause me more literal pain given my current health circumstances. Maybe once I'm feeling better I'll be willing to share, if people are willing to share their's first or at least not be an ass towards me just because my experience was different - which in itself is also a microaggression.
  20. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Sorry you're not feeling well.

    The point I (and others) was trying to make is that Scientology screwed up EVERYONE who came in contact with it. White, black, brown, green. Just move on with your life.
    tesseract and screamer2 like this.