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People of Colour ...

Discussion in 'Staff "War Stories"' started by ScienceNotScientology, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. RandomCat

    RandomCat Patron with Honors

    What is your source for this information?
    Most anecdotal evedence that I’ve heard indicates that these slave women were raped by either their ‘masters’, member of the master’s family or by someone else of authority on the plantation (for example, a foreman).
  2. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    Don't know about the dim-witted white guy thing, but certainly some of the owner's families would have partaken in such behaviour, given that it would have been lust, yes, but mostly power play.

    But anyway, I would believe very few American blacks whose bloodlines would still be pure as it was from Africa. In Australia there are not too many full blooded Aboriginals anymore and in New Zealand I think you could only could the number of full blooded Maoris on two hands or less, I'm led to believe.
    One guy claims there are actually none left:

    To me it seems that we are headed for a single race on Earth with our global movements and liaisons.

    What would we have to be racist about then?
    Enthetan likes this.
  3. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Yup, that's a kind of entropy at work (my apologies to any purists, I know there's only one kind of entropy really). Eventually, humanity (assuming it lasts long enough) will become one amorphous mass and racial differences will be subsumed. That's my take on it anyway.
    DagwoodGum, Enthetan and The_Fixer like this.
  4. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I remember the first time I saw the selective breeding that went on was on the original Roots series which was an eye opener for a lot of people. It was just looked at as good business to "improve" the gene pool of one's slaves like one did with all of one's livestock as callous as it was. On one episode they showed a German woman checking out a prospect for purchase at pre-auction by sizing up his package at which point one of the other plantation owners sons said "I guess German women just need more of pleasuring than other women", kind of racy for prime time. The slaves were merely chattel by law in slavery states without any rights that would separate them from the livestock so I doubt that sleeping with one's slave would have been considered rape but simply a plantation owner getting his monies worth in that ugly scenario. And I've read a few times about the higher price one could get for light skinned slaves and that they were preferable for duties in the mansion.
    I know a lot has been made of Thomas Jefferon's involvement with his female slaves but in the early days in this county it took a 2.5 to 3 month sailing ship ride to get here till steamer ships became commonplace by the early 1900's and most European women mainly came here with other family or their husbands so the men here took to Indian and black women. And a lot of Europeans that took the big gamble in coming here early on were uneducated dim wits that England & Ireland were glad to see go and they created an ugly new world of slavery and rampant abuse as they knew no better.
  5. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader


    Yeh, I totally understand. I had a rescued parrot once that only spoke Yiddish. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get her to assimilate with the other parrots and speak Aussie; she wouldn't even say 'G'Day." Don't even mention spoons! She'd grab a spoon right out of my hand and throw it to the ground in a rage!

    Finally, after she decided my favorite male parrot would be her mate, she got jealous that he was giving me kisses and flew over to the side of the aviary where he was clucking and kissing at me, flapped her wings and dive-bombed me, yelling, "GET AWWT! GET AWWT! GET AWWT OF HEAH!

    No spoons about it, she spoke Aussie perfectly well but had hidden it for years until the day she wanted to make sure I understood. :omg: That one was a real sleeper.

    Not that this story has anything to do with anything.
    LoneWolf likes this.
  6. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    You realize that Roots was fiction rather than an anthropological study.
  7. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Not as simple as that. And it was not necessarily "rape". I'm sure that there was no shortage of women who saw sleeping with someone with power as a way to get out of working in the fields in the hot Georgia sun. Also, mitochondrial DNA analysis shows some white women had kids with black men.
  8. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Yes, it was Hollywoodized. But just because it took certain liberties with the truth doesn't negate that it was largely based upon the truth. The creators of the series seemed to have done their homework.
    Man has always tinkered with improving his livestock by use of stud services from outside the limited gene pool of his own stock whether it be soy beans, slaves or horses. Just because it made him more money. And once his competition was putting their bigger and better slaves on the market he had to improve his stock's gene pool too in order to better compete.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  9. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    There's lots of written information on the subject on the net if you're interested.
    Just believe what makes the most sense to you.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  10. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    "The historian E. Franklin Frazier, in his book The Negro Family, stated that "there were masters who, without any regard for the preferences of their slaves, mated their human chattel as they did their stock."
    Ex-slave Maggie Stenhouse remarked, "Durin' slavery there were stockmen. They was weighed and tested. A man would rent the stockman and put him in a room with some young women he wanted to raise children from."[9]
    And I've read where black negro breeder bulls were sometimes kept in pens and sent out to perform stud service to breeding females at the other breeder plantations.
    "The purpose of slave breeding was to produce new (super) slaves without incurring the cost of purchase, to fill labor shortages caused by the termination of the Atlantic slave trade, and to attempt to improve the health and productivity of slaves. Slave breeding was condoned in the South because slaves were considered to be subhuman chattel, and were not entitled to the same rights accorded to free persons."
    An advertisement in Charleston, South Carolina, in 1796, offering fifty prime Negroes for sale contained theses sentences: *** "they are not Negroes selected out of a larger gang for the purpose of a sale, but are prime, their present Owner, with great trouble and expense, selected them out of many for several years past. They were purchased for stock and breeding Negroes, and to any Planter who particularly wanted them for that purpose, they are a very choice and desirable gang." At all times "breeding slaves", "child bearing women", "breeding period", "too old to breed", etc. were familiar terms.
    Don't miss this though:

    "However, some historians disagreed and argued that the practice of breeding humans as one would breed animals (to produce a desired offspring) did exist and the practice had the most detrimental effect upon the slave population. For example, Paul Escott found that breeding was often used as a mechanism to control not only the slave population, but also as a way of creating a new breed of slave".
    Furthermore, Lerone Bennett acknowledged that many slave “apologists” deny the existence of breeding, but they ignore the evidence from the slave owners themselves. Bennett refers to the numerous anti-bellum advertisements that, for example, listed black females for sale as “stock and breeding Negroes.”
    In Texas former slaves recalled the numerous examples of breedings and forced marriages during slavery. Former slave Josephine Howard remembered that her master put her parents together which produced six children. Likewise, former slave Silvia King indicated that she was abducted from Africa, processed through New Orleans and found herself the property of a man she called “Marse Jones.” In regards to forced marriages, King said, “After ‘while, Marse Jones say to me, ‘Silvia, am you married?’ I tells him I got a man and three chilluns back in the old country, but he don’t understand my talk and I has a man give to me. I don’t bother with dat ******’s name much, he jes’ Bob to me.”
    Former slave Sam Jones Washington also commented that his mother and father were placed into a forced union much like the parents of Josephine Howard. In fact, Washington said he did not even know who his father was. “I don’t know my pappy. Him am what dey calls de travelin’ ******. Dey have him come for service and when dey gits what dey wants, he go back to his massa. De women on Massa Young place not married.”
    Lastly, former slave Sarah Ford commented that her mother told her that some slaveholders would not allow some slaves to marry because it might reduce their productivity. She said, “She (her mother) say de white folks don’t let de slaves what works in de field marry none, dey jus’ puts a man and breedin’ woman together like mules. Iffeb the women don’t like the man it don’t make no difference, she better go or dey gives her a hidin’.”
    While there is no historical consensus regarding slave breedings and forced marriages, evidence exists suggesting the slaveholder played an unwelcome role in the sexual behaviors of slaves. The depression era oral records of former slaves definitely indicate that female slaves were often forced into sexual relationships not of their choosing.

    Boles, John, 1984. Black Southerners, 1619-1869, Lexington: University Press of Kentucky.
    Escott, Paul.1979. Slavery Remembered. Chapel Hill, NC: the University of North Carolina Press.
    Fogel, Robert William. 1992. Without Consent or Contract, New York and London: W.W. Norton and Company.

    I guess that's enough on that, kind of an ugly subject to say the least!
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  11. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Awful lot of Cherokee blood in American blacks
  12. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

  13. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

  14. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Well, Lynn, I hope you realize that that infographic is completely reversible and just as valid. In fact when whites bring up reverse racism the best that they can hope for is the bottom levels and, yes, whites see that every day in the media, in the classroom, etc. In fact, if you look up Rachel Cargle and the Equality Institute you can see the overt racism for what it is. When is the last time you saw a pyramid of black supremacy?

    How about a white woman giving a lecture of "Unpacking Black Feminism"?

    However, if a white were to post such it would be denounced as racism and that's what that infographic is...racist. That's all it is is a racist construct constructed from pure racism.

    But let's actually discuss this pyramid and its validity. I'd like to begin here: can anyone come up with an example of this pyramid "working"? That is to say that the levels are walked up into genocide?

    Keep in mind, we're talking about WHITE supremacy so we need to have an example of whites committing genocide as diagrammed by this pyramid.
  15. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    There are numerous books that get into the gory details of what really occurred on the breeding plantations vs what they've generally admitted to.
    Once the competition started marketing genetically engineered slaves you either followed suit or couldn't compete with them at auction.

    Slave Breeding Farms of "Africans in North America"

    by Rashid Booker
    "For many enslaved African Americans, one of the cruelest hardships they endured was sexual abuse by the slaveholders, overseers, and white men and women whose power to dominate them was complete. Enslaved women were forced to submit to their masters’ sexual advances, perhaps bearing children who would engender the rage of a master’s wife, and from whom they might be separated forever as a result. Masters forcibly paired “good breeders” to produce strong children they could sell at a high price. Resistance brought severe punishment, often death. “I know these facts will seem too awful to relate,” warns former slave William J. Anderson in his 1857 narrative, “. . . as they are some of the real ‘dark deeds of American Slavery.”
    "Many indirect inducement [are] held out to reckless propagation, which has a sort of premium offered to it in the consideration of less work and more food . . . in short, as their lives are for the most those of mere animals, their increase is literally mere animal breeding, to which every encouragement is given, for it adds to the master's livestock and the value of his estate."
    Frances Ann Kemble, Journal of a Residence on a Georgia Plantation in 1838-39 (New York: Harper & Bros., 1863). Kemble's husband, Pierce Butler, owned five hundred slaves who were sold in the second largest auction in the history of the country.
  16. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Coleman Hughes @ Lafayette, "Anti Racism and Humanism, Two Competing Visions"

    A wise young man.

  17. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    His presentation is rather complicated and difficult to sort out.

    For example,
    1. has he ever done a simple presentation on why we have inner-city black crime in the U.S. ?
    2. has he ever done a talk on the topic of "white flight" from residential areas?
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  18. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Not that I know of. He's a grad student, so he's just starting off his journey.

    Thomas Sowell would be a good source for information on that.
    Enthetan likes this.
  19. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron

    Skin on, but fur scrapped off.
  20. For the most part I have - I've multiple properties, new degrees, several hustles, a primary+secondary romantic partners (who know each other + are friends), etc. ... life is good!

    However as someone who moved from SO to Social Scientist I can tell you that's not how trauma/triggers work.

    Triggers are simultaneously specific + morphous - For example you're humming along, great day and then someone says something racist/homophobic similar to something in scientology policy or what someone said to you in scientology. Real life example you're visiting friends/family in {country X} and you hear someone call an Asian person a "Wog." Now all of a sudden you feel ill, angry ... did you hear that right? is that fucker a scilon following you? no they're some older woman being racist, then you feel angry because well you're part-Asian and wog is a horrible term to call someone. You tell her that wog is racist and the only people still regularly using it are members of the cult of scientology, she gives you the two-finger-salut and you move to another cabin. As the Millennials like to say - "It be like that sometimes" or us GenX'ers "shit happens." You feel shitty until 2 hours later you find a really good + cheap all you can eat Greek place by the wharf, but then you feel a different kind of shitty but that just needs a short loo trip and you're good again ;)

    TBH, even your telling me to "just move on with your life" though well intentioned is a microagression, a very small one but one nonetheless. It belittles my pain because your pain or your perception of what was horrible about scientology is different than mine. Yes we were all fucked over by it but in different ways, and different shitty things felt more or less shitty to the people experiencing them based on their own previous experiences (good+bad) elsewhere as well as personal backgrounds. My pain being different doesn't in any way lessen your or other's pain at scientology or any other cults hands, or other types of racism or other types of sexism.

    These are all bad and worthy of examination/study.

    However we each have a right to look intersectionally + specifically how it {scientology alone or not} fucked us over. How different sub-groups got fucked over - it's part of how many of us heal. In the end people have to process this shit in their own way, at their own pace and sometime you have to re-process shit. Sometimes you find out years later something you thought you were good on triggers if {X} is in the environment, one is in essence constantly re-training and working one's peace of mind.

    In essence this is also part of why scilon "auditing" does the opposite of what it claims (it creates/stimulates more triggers from real pain + false memories) and frankly I think that's what Hubbard actually wanted as the end product. Depressed people faking psycho-happy so he could work us to death for his fun+profit. But this isn't the thread for that. Frankly with the snark level here I don't think this is even the Forum for it. - and I'm GenX but age isn't why it's going back to school to study various sciences where I heard it, and the concept was actually posited in 1973 by an MIT Ph.D as "micro-inequities" though it didn't reach colloquial penetration until Millennials made it popular in a Tumblr. Their sensitivity as a generation is a good thing, in general it makes them treat others kinder because they wouldn't want to be treated that way.

    Also Yes, I leave this Forum for months at a time - it's low priority since other forums/threads have less snark, more kindness and a willingness to look at others points of views/perspectives on scientology/cults. For example various scientific forums that study religions/culs, Leah+Mike's show, exscnkids, etc. Even the discussions on Twitter/IG seem to be a better outlet for me understanding others bad scn/cult experiences and/or other traumatic experiences as well as their good experiences post-cult. Plus work+otherwork+side hustle+two partners, occasional illness flareups, etc. Coming on here every few months 2-6 seems to be enough to answer PMs and skim the important things. Often when I log in I don't bother to post, just stick to reading the narratives of others.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
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