Personal confession and accusation

Wow, EB...you got a real pair of 'nads!

What you're talkin' about goes all the way back to "Source". The first time I heard El Ron excoriate and trash long term Scns that I knew personally be dedicated, competent and caring Service Org Execs and “Tech” folks—in absentia in a "Highly Confidential" Aides Briefing—it was a one helluva WTF for yours truly.

You’re lookin’ into your own Heart without flinchin’—that can very lonely and painful, but it's also the Gateway to the Grace of Life.

Please watch out for yourself and use your noggin.

My Heart is...all of our Hearts are...with you.:yes:

Face:)

Thanks Face, hey if you or anyone sees I am giving up something that may out me, please PM me.
 
Hi ethicsbait and very welcome to ESMB. I also was an auditor and C/S, for fkn years and years and too damn many years.

And you are amazing. You're still in an org! Man o man, that is a very thin line. We had someone do this before, on staff and realizing the scam and posting on ESMB while still on staff. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. What a trip!

Yes, we can get free of the tech trap.

May The Buddha (the real one) be with you.

Love you, but must inform you, you know Ron and Buddha are one in the same, Ron says so in Hymn of Asia.
 
There may be two aspects to the arrogance of auditors, and for that matter, admin staff too:
Personal arrogance, where a persons own pre cult levels of arrogance are now functioning in his/her role inside the COS, and the arrogance that is reuired as part of his/her post. All staff are required to be arrogant. Their jobs require it, for all COS jobs.

I was not an auditor beyond HQS, but even I picked up on the arrogance that you're talking about with some auditors, and the overall pathway the "pc" took on the "bridge". That is a completely separate issue form the fact that auditors are really trying to help someone, and that some are really very very *not* arrogant personally. I guess it would be less evident where "pc's" go through with no problems, but if there are problems then the pc can be seen as a problem.

DB, you have to have access to folders to know of what I speak. I just did a fes with numerous auditors. I know most of them. The things they say are said about them by other auditors, we all know this but we keep doing it. Yea, All these auditors have different personalities, and some you would say and believe are the most caring of people, and for the most part they are, except they follow Scn doctrin and to that degree are not caring (see uniquemand’s post), but once you’re a interned class IV or above, that’s what I was talking about in my original post.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
don't know if you noticed, but Ron is dead.

people are responsible for their own actions.

Geez. What BULLSHIT! Sure people are responsible for their own actions. BUT . . .

IDEAS run the world. The primary battles in this world are over and for the acceptance of IDEAS. Sure, people accept and forward "ideas", BUT a body of knowledge DOES have a slant, often inherent postulated motivations, clearly described BEHAVIORs, and so forth.

Example. Here are two IDEAS. Without any people involved.

1. Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You (Jesus)

2. Attack and destroy all critics using noisy investigations, overwhelming lawsuits and manufactured phony crimes. (Hubbard)

The ideas themselves, without any person involved, CONTAIN tremendous ramifications for ACTIONS in the physical universe.

Follow the first idea and see what happens. Follow the second idea and see what happens.

Ideas are NOT "entirely neutral". They are NOT always like a "gun" where the intention and use matter ONLY and entirely. There is the idea that "people commit crimes, not guns". That is true, but the relationship of the person and the gun, is NOT at all the same as the relationship between a person and an IDEA. Guns are "neutral", while IDEAS often are NOT.

Yes, with an idea such as ARC, it can be used with decent intentions or with bad intentions. But, MANY ideas include the intentional slant and acceptance of the idea involves acceptance of the slant.

Hubbard may be dead, BUT his IDEAS continue to exist, and people accepting, thinking with, and exactly applying MANY of these Scientology ideas directly cause various abuses. There IS a close relationship between IDEAS and the actions those ideas define, describe, and encourage. One may not directly "cause" the other, but they are VERY far from being unrelated.

Your above statement is just so shallow, and possibly contrived. :whistling:

Ideas are often NOT "neutral". Very often, when ANY person accepts certain ideas he or she MUST also accept the slant and intention. There is no way to be responsible accepting the above idea number 2, and NOT harm people. The only sane option is to understand the IDEA as the nonsense it truly is, and choose NOT to accept it or apply it in any way. If a person accepts the framework of the ideas inherent to organized Scientology, it is nearly impossible NOT to behave as some sort of an asshole.

Ideas limit and direct behavior - in VERY many cases (at least when any person accepts, thinks with, and acts on the ideas).

In addition, the Scientology paradigm is highly deceptive, and ANY person accepting and forwarding many of the ideas cannot do anything other than trick, manipulate and confuse "responsibility" in the minds of participants. The subject itself is NOT some unliving, value-free, and neutral thing. When ANY person operates with these Scientology ideas, he or she breathes life, and a very specific and well-defined type of life as based on the ideas, into an exact FORM and manifestation of actions and behaviors.

The apple never falls far from the tree. For the not-too-bright, in this metaphor, the tree is the "idea", and the apple involves the attitudes and behaviors described and defined by the idea.

++++++++++++++
 
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I'm very impressed by your honesty, specially as you're still with an org.

I think that, beyond what auditors/CSes think about their PCs/POTs, that there's something wonderfully self-serving about the "tech" that is infallible yet continues to fail, with o/r this and unflat that, messed up something else, the fixing up of which has to be paid for by the auditee with nary an apology from the auditor or CS (or Founder, for that matter). Yes, I know that it can all be put down to auditor and C/S error (or sometimes auditee not being forthcoming enough), but at what stage do auditors begin to think that maybe there's something fundamentally flawed with the "tech" itself?

And no, you don't sound particularly American to me!

Peggy

Thanks peggy, you hit the nail on the head.
 
Replies on the run

I AM NOT SAYING people did not become auditors to help, I AM SAYING that a beast is created.

I apologized if I have offended people who wanted to and feel their auditing helped. I wish you could read through folders now and just see what you find, as I did.

Arthur, we are very strict about people looking up “entheta” in any form, but for some reason that is not transferred to my worksheets when it comes up in sessions. Nuff said.

By the way, if anyone thinks that session confidentiality exists, you would be sorely mistaken. If you state in session you are looking at OT material on line or anything else not kosher, ethics is informed.


Great stuff Hat. Thank you. It’s interesting, you have evil, and I don’t care what anyone says, it’s evil to put that in your folder, then you have EVERYONE who reads your folder thinking this bad thing about you. The story you tell happens all the time. It’s a wonder people are not more screwed up.

You have all these people, 18 year old ethics officers, Homophobe auditors, eccentric ED’s all adding their personal opinion of whys and wherewithal’s about this person and why they are doing what they are doing and what should be done about it. IT IS ALL BULLSHIT!!!

Every one of these people making judgments on others is also cheating on their wife, is shy, has anger problems, watches porn, steals out of the cookie jar, invalidates kids, you name it, they are doing it themselves then judging others and saying what should be done to others with the same or different problems, its ridiculous.
 
Geez. What BULLSHIT! Sure people are responsible for their own actions. BUT . . .

IDEAS run the world. The primary battles in this world are over and for the acceptance of IDEAS. Sure, people accept and forwards "ideas", BUT a body of knowledge DOES have a slant, often inherent postulated motivations, clearly described BEHAVIORs, and so forth.

Example. Here are two IDEAS. Without any people involved.

1. Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You (Jesus)

2. Attack and destroy all critics using noisy investigations, overwhelming lawsuits and manufactured phony crimes. (Hubbard)

The ideas themselves, without any person involved, CONTAIN tremendous ramifications for ACTIONS in the physical universe.

Follow the first idea and see what happens. Follow the second idea and see what happens.

Ideas are NOT "entirely neutral". They are NOT always like a "gun" where the intention and use matter ONLY and entirely.

Yes, with an idea such as ARC, it can be used with decent intentions or with bad intentions. But, MANY ideas include the intentional slant and acceptance of the idea involves acceptance of the slant.

Hubbard may be dead, BUT his IDEAS continue to exist, and people accepting, thinking with, and exactly applying MANY of these Scientology ideas directly cause various abuses.

The above statement is just so shallow, and possibly contrived. :whistling:

Ideas are often NOT "neutral". Very often, when ANY person accepts certain ideas he or she MUST also accept the slant and intention. There is no way to be responsible accepting the above idea number 2, and NOT harm people.

++++++++++++++

This :thumbsup:
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Yes, people act on words, particularly when they are spoken with authority by people they believe. Nonetheless, it is they who are responsible for their actions.

Again, Hubbard is dead. The present regime in the Church that forwards his "command intention" is guilty of that.

The point, though, isn't to establish guilt, or to punish people. It's to wake them up, get them to take responsibility for ferreting out the truth, cease working for "the beast", and hopefully LEARN.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I apologize if I gave the impression that I don't think that ideas can be dangerous. Of course they can. Particularly if people allow themselves to be lied to. Was Hubbard a good hypnotist and con-man? Absolutely.

Had me pretty good for a while.
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
Great thread, ethicsbait.

I'm glad to hear you've unstuck your mind from the ways of the organisation. I hope you get the rest of your life unstuck soon.

<3
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I apologize if I gave the impression that I don't think that ideas can be dangerous. Of course they can. Particularly if people allow themselves to be lied to. Was Hubbard a good hypnotist and con-man? Absolutely.

Had me pretty good for a while.

Apology accepted! :thumbsup:

++++++++
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
I was assined a PC to audit in ASHO's HGC. His folder came to me with the picture of the dog from (Oshite was it Self Analysis? Will I have to go look?)
Anyways, the folder came with the picture of the dog cut out and pasted on the front of this dude's PC folder.
What do s'pose that lil pic was meant to say?
Who put it there? An Auditor? Who left it there? A C/S?
Not me, baby. I made a new PC folder for him and wrote a 'Things That Shouldn't Be Report'.
Where I saw the most most most egregious comments about the PC was on the session report cover page. There, the auditor would evaluate for the C/S what was wrong with the PC. Gross. If PCs knew what their auditors thought about them, and passed along to the rest of tech staff, they would bolt for the exit.

chlng
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Challenge is 100 and 10% correct.

(Lots of other good posts on this thread too! Kudos where credit is due!)
 

elwood

Patron with Honors
Outside the Co$, real help aka auditing continues. As an example:

A few years ago, our daughter wanted a job at Kiva, an international micro finance organization. She could not get a job offer. My wife (a Class Vlll from the 1960s) gave our daughter a series of prep checks over three days time. Within an hour of the last prep check session, there was a phone call with a job offer.

In the real world that is called a "coincidence".
 
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