Personal confession and accusation

Jump

Operating teatime
People succumbed to peer pressure because they didn't want to face the prospects of severe changes to their life styles. That was horrible coercion. It worked because the individuals preferred to 'blend in with the group' rather than stand up for themselves & their own integrity.

I gather that for you 'I was only obeying orders' is an acceptable excuse. :eyeroll:


Mark A. Baker

Of course the individual is responsible - Co$ is blameless and follows the laws of the land. But the web of 'ideas' and the gradient of introduction in this case makes the 'not blending with the group' and the prospect of total disconnection from family and friends along with losing one's 'eternity' an unthinkable option. In many cases, walking away is hard, staying is easy - and the Co$ is designed that way, to misuse that to their advantage.

Ideas can be used as a weapon.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Of course the individual is responsible - Co$ is blameless and follows the laws of the land. But the web of 'ideas' and the gradient of introduction in this case makes the 'not blending with the group' and the prospect of total disconnection from family and friends along with losing one's 'eternity' an unthinkable option. In many cases, walking away is hard, staying is easy - and the Co$ is designed that way, to misuse that to their advantage.

Ideas can be used as a weapon.

Wow, great post!

I know of MANY people in Scientology who DO HAVE a "gun" pointed at their heads. In the end, the force is so SEVERE that the idea of "a responsible choice" is impossible. Surely, a "free choice" is impossible. And, yes the "gun" is metaphorical, but nonetheless, it is REAL.

An example:

Bob is a fellow who got in 25 years ago. He has told me many times that what HE wanted from Scientology was to regain or stabilize a few amazing experiences he had during the Expanded Grades. After MANY years of SOLO NOTs, he has still NOT gotten what he wanted. He still wears corrective glasses, and he has always had the notion that "Scientology, if it really does explain things and offer solutions, SHOULD be able to handle my poor eyesight". But he stays in and continues despite the many failures. Why?

His wife is a Scientologist. He owns a business that is staffed by mostly Scientologists. Most of his friends are Scietnologists. He has, in the past, often mentioned disagreements with various ideas and practices of Scientology, but he has learned to shut up, deny what he knows to be true, repress many observations, and tow the line, because he KNOWS FULL well that to do otherwise means that he will be threatened with LOSING his wife, business, friends and family! Nobody comes steps up and actually states the threat in words, BUT the threat exists as a "very highly probably outcome" (that approaches total 100% certainty in terms of prediciting what WOULD surely happen - since the actions are clearly listed in extant LRH polciies) of any scenario where he suddenly decided to be more honest to himself and to the rest of the world about his view and experiences with Scientlogy.

Also, Scientology tricks members into agreeing with the idea that "we HAVE a workable road to spiritual freedom", and "you can ONLY get that freedom here with Scientology" (KSW #1). Once any member AGREES with that stupidity, then the member can easily be controlled when threats are made that could TAKE THAT ROAD TO FREEDOM AWAY. The "Bridge" is the carrot on the stick, and yes, you DO have to accept the idea first before they can control you.

All of the mechanics of what I describe above are based on exactly written LRH policy. He created the ideas that enable the nightmare.

Mark Baker, the idea of "free choice" is largely an illusion for most people. Yes, for me, I do demand total responsibility for myself in all that I do. I demand that I be fully aware of all things relating to my choices. But as I stated before, that is an IDEAL. It is a good ideal to strive towards, but THAT IDEAL, does not change the fact that "threats" are used as a "weapon" in Scientology. In fact, various agreements, taken together, are used as a weapon of control in Scientology.

Various IDEAS of Hubbard's, when accepted and acted upon, CREATE an environment that heavily disallows and discourages honest communication of unbiased observations. THAT is the sad and sorry world of organized Scientology. Part of the "brilliance" of Hubbard was that he replaced the controlling force of weapons with "ideas". THis is no minor point. Looking at past examples of oppression, such as Chinese or Russian communists, Nazi Germany, or the Spanish Inquisition, REAL PHYSICAL FORCE and the THREAT of physical force, in the form of torture and/or murder, were the key elements of control. Hubbard managed to transcend the need for brute physical force and threats, and instead figured out a system that caused particpants to "agree" with an entire paradigm, and enabled control through any entirely MENTAL apparatus. Once any person agrees with the majority of the basic ideas (KSW), then control is EASY. And to any person who accepts these ideas and agreements, he or she, as he or she sees it, IS ACTING TOTALLY RESPONSIBLY (of course, in alignment with some conceptual framework of arbitrary fixed ideas rooted in the Scientology paradigm).

Ideas can often act as "weapons". Or, at least once any person ACCEPTS and AGREES with some set of ideas, THEN some aspect of that agreements can be sued to threaten and control the poor fellow.

++++++++++++++
 
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RenegadeX

Patron
Wow, great post!

I know of MANY people in Scientology who DO HAVE a "gun" pointed at their heads. In the end, the force is so SEVERE that the idea of "a responsible choice" is impossible. Surely, a "free choice" is impossible. And, yes the "gun" is metaphorical, but nonetheless, it is REAL.

An example:

Bob is a fellow who got in 25 years ago. He has told me many times that what HE wanted from Scientology was to regain or stabilize a few amazing experiences he had during the Expanded Grades. After MANY years of SOLO NOTs, he has still NOT gotten what he wanted. He still wears corrective glasses, and he had always had the notion that "Scientology, if it really does explain things and offer solutions, SHOULD be able to handle my poor eyesight". But he stays in and continues. Why?

His wife is a Scientologist. He owns a business that is staffed by mostly Scientologists. He has, in the past, often mentioned disagreements with various ideas and practices of Scientology, but he has learned to shut up, deny what he knows to be true, repress many observations, and tow the line, because he KNOWS FULL well that to do otherwise means that he will be threatened with LOSING his wife, business, freinds and family!

Also, Scientology tricks members into agreeing with the idea that "we HAVE a workable road to spiritual freedom", and "you can ONLY get that freedom here with Scientology" (KSW #1). Once any member AGREES with that stupidity, then the member can easily be controlled when threats are made that could TAKE THAT ROAD TO FREEDOM AWAY. The "Bridge" is the carrot on the stick, and yes, you DO have to accept the idea first before they can control you.

All of the mechanics of what I describe above are based on exactly written LRH policy. He created the ideas that enable the nightmare.

Mark Baker, the idea of "free choice" is largely an illusion for most people. Yes, for me, I do demand total responsibility for myself in all that I do. I demand that I be fully aware of all things relating to my choices. But as I stated before, that is an IDEAL. It is a good ideal to strive towards, but THAT IDEAL, does not change the fact that "threats" are used as a "weapon" in Scientology. In fact, various agreements, taken together, are used as a weapon of control in Scientology.

Various IDEAS of Hubbard's, when accepted and acted upon, CREATE an environment that heavily disallows and discourages honest communication of unbiased observations. THAT is the sad and sorry world of organized Scientology. Part of the "brilliance" of Hubbard was that he replaced the controlling force of weapons with "ideas". THis is no minor point. Looking at past examples of oppression, such as Chinese or Russian communists, Nazi Germany, or the Spanish Inquisition, REAL PHYSICAL FORCE and the THREAT of physical force, in the form of torture and/or murder, were the key elements of control. Hubbard managed to transcend the need for brute physical force and threats, and instead figured out a system that caused particpants to "agree" with an entire paradigm, and enabled control through any entirely MENTAL apparatus. Once any person agrees with the majority of the basic ideas (KSW), then control is EASY. And to any person who accepts these ideas and agreements, he or she, as he or she sees it, IS ACTING TOTALLY RESPONSIBLY (of course, in alignment with some conceptual framework of arbitrary fixed ideas rooted in the Scientology paradigm).

Ideas can often act as "weapons". Or, at least once any person ACCEPTS and AGREES with some set of ideas, THEN some aspect of that agreements can be sued to threaten and control the poor fellow.

++++++++++++++

Good Post!
 
Questions answered and comments

Questions answered from last to first, questions in ( ). Hey Candy and David why don’t you try it? David, if you are bound by a gag order, log on as someone else and tell us your truth man, please, I really want to know your answers to questions you have been asked.


(What's your plan? Do you plan to stay on there -- C/Sing, auditing, FESing, etc.? And posting at ESMB on your off hours?

Or do you plan to leave?)

Yes to all. This has been a slow evolution not a one second realization. I still sometime think to myself, maybe the tech is true, there was just a mistake, it makes me crazy sometime. If I were to leave tomorrow I would lose friends, family, and job and I am not willing to do that. My leaving will be an evolution I am figuring out day by day. It is a hard figure because my thinking is all screwed up because most everything I believed and thought with is a lie and I deal with that with just about every thought I have.


(I, myself, maintain anonymity due to familial relations - is that you're motivation for staying on staff?)

Yes.

(...or do you see validity in the tech?)

Only some basic entry level stuff at this time.

(Do you consider that there's anything "salvageable" regarding Scn/tech?)

At this time I think Scn should go down and any “good tech” should be introduced by good exes in another form. The bottom line, the ultimate promise of the tech is ending the cycle of death and birth and total freedom, the ultimate promise and the ultimate lie.

(From the inside can you see if Scn is shrinking or status quo or what?)

It is definitely shrinking, but not near as fast as it would if not for the high income members pumping life into it.

(Do you intend to do your Bridge?)

No.

(I'll refer the FBI to you then, shall I?)

Please don’t.


(p.s. Good on you for whatever it is you are doing on staff within the church. I genuinely hope the circumstances there improve.)

Not, I am stuck between a rock and a hard place and I hope DM is indicted and it is over quickly, that is the improvement I am looking for. I believe you and I could be good drinking buddies but should never talk politics, see my comment below.

(Actually not. The Buddha was Gautama Siddhartha. The Hymn of Asia was Hubbard's attempt to claim the identity of Maitreya, a disciple of Gautama, and traditionally reputed to be the next great teacher of Buddhism.)

The book is unclear purposefully, but to me he claims to be both.

(Lurkers - the way out is the front door!)

If it were just that easy, but I love the line.

(Nice post 'ethicsbait' you'd better come see the 'outethicsofficer'...I am amazed you're still in the org and on post, why?)

Mostly answered above, also maybe I can help end this quicker from within, not sure.

(And CSs that were interested in their auditors winning and doing well.)

It always starts out that way, and is made to sound that way while doing bad things as listed by others in this thread.

(And no, you don't sound particularly American to me!)

I don’t know if that is good, or I have to try harder, but thank you.

(Please watch out for yourself and use your noggin.

My Heart is...all of our Hearts are...with you. )

Thank you very much.



That’s it on the Questions or comments, now just a couple things.


I feel I have finally made it, Emma responded to one of my threads. I mean it with the utmost respect and sincerity Emma.

This is a hit and run operation for me, so if I have not responded to your PM yet, forgive me I will when I can.

So far there is no concern regarding my posting. Either they are not following and have too much else on their plates or have just not gotten to it yet. It is good to know people and be trusted. I am the last person they would think posting here.


I had free will to walk to the next block, but I turned left and got hit by a car, all my fault because I had free will.



If I missed anything, let me know. I am tired and need to sleep.
 
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Questions answered from last to first, questions in ( ). Hey Candy and David why don’t you try it? David, if you are bound by a gag order, log on as someone else and tell us your truth man, please, I really want to know your answers to questions you have been asked.

Bad advice for David. It's his & Julie's @ss's you are suggesting that he put at risk to gratify the curiosity of others. The Dirt is already out there, little more of substantial utility would be provided by your strategy. David could no doubt clarify some fascinating points about church history, but at ~ 30 years remove none of it would be especially helpful as regards shutting down the church.

His use of a 'sock puppet' would not be worth the risk to him & his family & friends of his exposure.


... Mark Baker, excuse me, but you act like one of those arrogant SOB auditors, spouting how everyone is responsible for their own “case” just as Ron programmed you. You are a perfect example of what the “tech” can produce.

Scientology has nothing to do with it, nor are you 'excused' for your inaccurate assumptions. :D


You profess to be free will but just spout propaganda, though elegantly, Ron propaganda none the less. You really really really need to go live in a third world country where there is no “free will” and then tell me about it, really. ... .

I have and did. As usual you have things @ss backwards. Free will is the only freedom any human ever has, 'third world' or 'first'. Pressure from groups and special interests is ubiquitous.

Nor is 'free will' without 'cost'. Choice implies outcomes, which in turn create ramifications & consequences. Those consequences expand out into the world affecting others. We always bear responsibility for our choices, that is what the Vedic conception of karma teaches.

If you prefer to remain 'disaffected' but within the community of 'active scientologists'. That is a choice you have made, not one made for you by others. That choice has ramifications & consequences, just as does the choice of walking out the door. The choice to avoid unpleasant consequences is a choice.

You have a right to your choices. You don't have the right to deny that YOU are the one choosing.

I wish you well in the choices you make.


Mark A. Baker
 
... Mark Baker, the idea of "free choice" is largely an illusion for most people.

No. The illusion is the apparency that choice can occur without consequences. Choice always has consequences. THAT is the lesson of karma.


Yes, for me, I do demand total responsibility for myself in all that I do. I demand that I be fully aware of all things relating to my choices. But as I stated before, that is an IDEAL. It is a good ideal to strive towards, but THAT IDEAL, does not change the fact that "threats" are used as a "weapon" in Scientology. In fact, various agreements, taken together, are used as a weapon of control in Scientology. ...

Do you mean to suggest that you are so unique that others are incapable of the same sort of attempt at personal responsibility? :whistling:

{:coolwink:}


Mark A. Baker
 

Gadfly

Crusader
No. The illusion is the apparency that choice can occur without consequences. Choice always has consequences. THAT is the lesson of karma.

Do you mean to suggest that you are so unique that others are incapable of the same sort of attempt at personal responsibility? :whistling:

{:coolwink:}

Mark A. Baker

I doubt most people have the illusion that "consequences don't exist". As I see it, people often happily choose to simply IGNORE the fact of the possible or probable consequences.

No I didn't mean to suggest and didn't suggest anything. You dubbed that in all by yourself! I have made many stupid choices in my life. Some recently, so I suffer from NO DELUSION that I am somehow "better at making choices" than anybody else.

I do tend to be more demanding of myself than I am of others. I am happy when others expand in awareness, but mostly, I am just content when the people I know are happy. I only get into talks about responsibility with others if it is obvious to me that they are going to do something that will probably have "bad" consequences. In that case, I might "intervene". Otherwise, I don't pay much attention to "how responsible" or not people are. I don't have much "meaning" attached to the idea of "responsibility". I don't think about it much, not for myself and not as far as others go. :confused2:

Maybe, I have been out of Scientology so long now that the word (and idea) "responsibility" is no longer a BUTTON capable of triggering a response from me! :clap:

+++++++
 
Bad advice for David. It's his & Julie's @ss's you are suggesting that he put at risk to gratify the curiosity of others. The Dirt is already out there, little more of substantial utility would be provided by your strategy. David could no doubt clarify some fascinating points about church history, but at ~ 30 years remove none of it would be especially helpful as regards shutting down the church.

His use of a 'sock puppet' would not be worth the risk to him & his family & friends of his exposure.




Scientology has nothing to do with it, nor are you 'excused' for your inaccurate assumptions. :D




I have and did. As usual you have things @ss backwards. Free will is the only freedom any human ever has, 'third world' or 'first'. Pressure from groups and special interests is ubiquitous.

Nor is 'free will' without 'cost'. Choice implies outcomes, which in turn create ramifications & consequences. Those consequences expand out into the world affecting others. We always bear responsibility for our choices, that is what the Vedic conception of karma teaches.

If you prefer to remain 'disaffected' but within the community of 'active scientologists'. That is a choice you have made, not one made for you by others. That choice has ramifications & consequences, just as does the choice of walking out the door. The choice to avoid unpleasant consequences is a choice.

You have a right to your choices. You don't have the right to deny that YOU are the one choosing.

I wish you well in the choices you make.


Mark A. Baker

I apologize for my outburst. I strongly disagree with you. I will argue no further with you, not ever.
 
... No I didn't mean to suggest and didn't suggest anything. You dubbed that in all by yourself! ...

Not 'dub in', more of a slight 'twist' to bring excitement and a bit of friendly 'give & take' to the discussion. Note the presence of ironic & amused icons. :)

As to your point about 'responsibility' being a button for scientologists, especially as it is so often mischaracterized by the cult, that is a good one. Nonetheless, responsibility is at the core of ethics. Personally I believe it is at the core of all forms of enlightenment experiences.

Thus, the difficulty to confront the 'idea of responsibility' resulting from exposure to the perversion of its meaning within the cult is not only an obstacle to intelligent discussion, it also constitutes a severe impediment for making sense of one's present & past environments and achieving further personal growth.


Mark A. Baker
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Wow Ethicsbait, what a terrible and wonderful situation you find yourself in.

Terrible because of all the obvious reasons:

Yes to all. This has been a slow evolution not a one second realization. I still sometime think to myself, maybe the tech is true, there was just a mistake, it makes me crazy sometime. If I were to leave tomorrow I would lose friends, family, and job and I am not willing to do that. My leaving will be an evolution I am figuring out day by day. It is a hard figure because my thinking is all screwed up because most everything I believed and thought with is a lie and I deal with that with just about every thought I have.

But you also have an advantage not too many of us had when we were leaving. Most people including myself left (or were outed) with a bang and not much notice. Or we slowly drifted away 20 years ago without the advantage of the internet. You are in the position of being able to examine both "sides" of the story on a daily basis and make a decision in your own time without being forced.

I imagine (from what you've said about C/Sing cases) that you are not in much threat of being in session real soon. Most C/Ses I knew never got in session unless they were busted from *above* and hauled through a horrendous ethics trip "uplines". So you don't have to worry too much about the inevitable "Has a withhold been missed?" question.

My advice to you is to take your time. Read EVERYTHING. Really look at the products the Org is producing. Do they stack up to the stated EPs on the grade chart? Have you ever met a real Clear as per DMSMH? Have you ever met a real OT? Take a new unbiased look at your Org and Scientology across the planet. What are the big focuses? What are they regging for? Is it just more property, IAS & Superpower donations, basics packages etc or are they truly trying to get people up the Bridge?

If and when you decide to leave, plan it carefully. Take everything you can that is legally yours to take (emeter, books, dictionaries etc) and get copies of anything & everything. If you can't openly leave because of family then decide on how you can "get out gracefully". (hint: feeling "suicidal" seems to work well :D).

I feel for you. I remember when it first hit me that things were not right and I started to investigate. I was devastated at what I found and blew out of there pretty fast. If you can hang on, take it day by day and work out what you really believe then you'll work out what to do.

Scientology hangs together because of fear & lies. People are too afraid to speak up while they are in, so nobody knows that their friends & colleagues are all having the same doubts as they are, so they lie to each other. This might be the case with your family & you wouldn't know it.

Best of luck to you. :hug:
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi Ethicsbait, hoping all works out fine for you and that you are ok.

Were thinking of you and are here if you need us.


.
 

Jump

Operating teatime
Hi Ethicsbait, hoping all works out fine for you and that you are ok.

Were thinking of you and are here if you need us.


.

I agree. EB, I hope you get through this and it doesn't become too stressful. Take it easy, sit back now and then and reflect on it being a joke and a game. It certainly doesn't always seem like that when you're in the middle of it.

And re Mark A Baker.. he is pretty knowledgeable but his argument style can take some getting used to. I see where you're coming from on that one :whistling:



.
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
What Emma said

Yes, I agree with everything Emma said. It's a wonderful but terrifying position. Do think about stashing docs that can help in the future, though, in case you do ultimately decide to leave. In my opinion the process of leaving takes years. There are the years when the discrepancies and contradictions mount up to the point where they cannot be ignored. Then there are the years when one has to assess the cost of leaving behind the people and (non-material) things that you can't take with you, and the price of the unknown future. So be prepared for a marathon.

If you need material help, there are people who can assist you. Jeff Hawkins's "Leaving Scientology" blog (though now no longer being updated regularly) has some good points to take into consideration and things to start planning for.

When I finally decided to leave (while under a serious comm ev and in isolation with a dozen others) I eventually worked up the nerve to admit to my buddy that I had to go. He was thinking the same thing, and we'd both been doing the "scientology" thing and not admitting to "treasonous" thoughts. We left together. You might be surprised how many people in your immediate circle have been thinking the same thoughts as you.

That said, only you will know what to do, given your unique circumstances.

Peggy
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
(I, myself, maintain anonymity due to familial relations - is that you're motivation for staying on staff?)

Yes.

(...or do you see validity in the tech?)

Only some basic entry level stuff at this time.

(Do you consider that there's anything "salvageable" regarding Scn/tech?)

At this time I think Scn should go down and any “good tech” should be introduced by good exes in another form. The bottom line, the ultimate promise of the tech is ending the cycle of death and birth and total freedom, the ultimate promise and the ultimate lie.

(From the inside can you see if Scn is shrinking or status quo or what?)

It is definitely shrinking, but not near as fast as it would if not for the high income members pumping life into it.

(Do you intend to do your Bridge?)

No.

Hey, thanks for answering these.

I remember the 1st time I actively began looking up negative material on the internet.

It, like pretty much everything else, was a process and not an event. It definitely was a gradient type of thing where I initially shied away from too "damning" material to begin with and then kept peeling layer after layer of the onion.

One of the absolute worst things a person can do is post embellished material that is not true about Scientology - whether it is "negative" or not.

There was/is way too much of that, here on ESMB and elsewhere. That stuff kept me in Scientology a good couple years longer and, if I would've been active on lines, would've blown me off the computer for good in regards to negative Scientology material.

It is the same with yellow journalism. This was mainly written for "everybody".

On a completely different note, EB, you're tech position more or less aligns with what I've concluded and that is this:

1) Scientology cannot and will never be able to deliver spiritual salvation

2) it can be an effective psychotherapy

Had it stayed with position number 2 and hadn't attempted completely highjacking number 1, the very thing it blames the AMA of doing in the field of medicine, maybe things would've been happier for Scientology.

Thanks again and keep us posted on how things work out for you!
 
o wow...

I'd forgotten how many times in the early 80s I'd overheard such evaluations such as:

'So and so won't go OT because they don't think their other dynamics are important enough...they're stuck on their first and their second.'

Or' this particular person is out ethics because she is marrying this fellow who is 20 yrs older because he is affluent and will help purchase their levels. It must be handled.'

Or 'that person has overts because he is a musician in a nightclub and half the customers are drunk or doing drugs.'

Or 'this person is rollercoastering because they have overts by not honoring the hours they were supposed to be on course when they got their student discount. The fact that they are pregnant is not an excuse'...etc.

To place such things in a person's folder to be 'the reason why' when the FES is done or the D of P at another org is...sheeesh. Some of the people I heard making these judgements were not qualified to make any such determinations. In more than a few instances, the pc was made to look bad out of jealousy or fixed considerations or plain false data. I have to say though the the 'auditors' were the least critical in general. That's in general cause one or two were over the top. I should never have known the stigmas being shelled out. But I have big ears. :D

On one unfortunate occasion I was at the FSO. I was waiting for my auditor to pick up my folder so we could go back into session. They had a huge white cardboard scheduling board on a stand written on with colored markers. Two or three young ladies were marking the time slots and the rooms and the hours and PC to auditor ratios. Well done auditing hours and attests were being precisely accounted for. I heard one young woman say to another, this person is in review because she has overts, there is going to be no finishing of this cycle before the auditor can go back home to Australia with her complete on her program. I could just see my auditor's feet visible from across the room on the opposite side of the large board standing next to the women. I could hear his voice as he defended the PC (ME) saying the overts were on ME. :p Then he took me and bought me 4 shots of warm Cal Mag at the Hour Glass juice bar and acknowledged me wholeheartedly when I told him I no longer needed an auditor...I needed an EXORCIST. :bigcry:

He was from Australia, and in 1981 and he was a veterinarian. He may have been from Queensland. I don't remember his name. A very down to earth pragmatic fellow going for his Class IX course. I begged Jeff Walker to let him go home instead of making him stay until my program was complete. He did. :thumbsup:

:grouch:
Once when I was at the FSO in 1982 for a review I had the Qual Sec take me aside for an interview. It was Franky Freeman. He did not have to do this but wanted to feel out the results I was getting before I got back on the plane to go home. He did not really believe the evalutions about my case. He was trying to figure things out for himself as I had been doing just fine the previous years and nothing in my life was very different. He was curious. And then...he read to me something someone had put in my folders at my Class IV mission. Someone had brought forward an item to be noted for Expanded Dianetics. It was placed in my folder up front that I had been a prostitute. :omg: :no:
This I found out there at Flag sitting in Franky's little office on the second floor above the garden alcove. He said "There's reasons why some PCs get better case gains than others. There's reasons whey some people don't get ahead in processing as fast. Not that they won't eventually get there, but__for one reason, you've been a prostitute." :hattip: :ohmy: My mouth dropped. He said it's what was written down in your folders. :angry: He said "No?" I said :unsure: "No". "OK" he says, "well that's one more wrong indication that you don't need here. And I'm sorry if I stirred up any more bypassed charge by pointing that out". He then let me know who made the point and that it was wrong for the auditor involved to have had sex with some of his PCs.

Well, I don't have to tell you, I racked my mind to figure out which of those SOBs at the Class IV mission screwed up my folders before mailing them to the Flag Service Org.. somebody had a grudge and it affected "WHO" I was regarded as and what I was worth and what potential I had. But Franky was doing his own investigation. :happydance: (The Secret of Flag Results films were in the air) He did not trust the critical attitude of those who wrote the synopsis of Who I was. He had seen the many normal folders before the PTSness.

...that's terrible Hatsie. how did you miss out on being a prostitute?
 

Lee_from_phx

Patron with Honors
Thin line I am walking being in the org everyday and being here. Working toward freedom little by little.

The problem is not and never has been that you are in a cult. The problem is that the cult is in you. It may take time for this to correct itself, but you'll get there.
 
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Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Originally Posted by afaceinthecrowd View Post
Wow, EB...you got a real pair of 'nads!

What you're talkin' about goes all the way back to "Source". The first time I heard El Ron excoriate and trash long term Scns that I knew personally be dedicated, competent and caring Service Org Execs and “Tech” folks—in absentia in a "Highly Confidential" Aides Briefing—it was a one helluva WTF for yours truly.

You’re lookin’ into your own Heart without flinchin’—that can very lonely and painful, but it's also the Gateway to the Grace of Life.

Please watch out for yourself and use your noggin.

My Heart is...all of our Hearts are...with you.

Face

Amen on that, and what Camel, Emma, and others have said above.

Be careful. And to anyone "new" thinking of creeping in, Just for "fun"...
or as some have asked me--re maybe it can help them (w/something they can find for free in many areas)....
Please consider this.

Didn't your Mother ever tell you: "Don't play w/FIRE"

There's a ***huge*** truth to that message, and C of $ IS Fire.

Short story: Please don't forget it. Lady called me, hysterical. I asked,
"What's up?" She: "We own a business, got a flyer to "Come help get your stats up (increase your business)". I said to hubbie:"Let's do it". We flew to Florida. They did ONE interview on me: "What do you think of Scientology? I said, "I'm not interested, I'm here only for the Management info".

They did 8 (((EIGHT))) more on my husband, through out the week-end (Week-end, get how short that time frame is). He walked out, Sunday night and told me: "Either YOU join Scientology, or we are done". (They'd been married 17 years---and yes, she decided she *had* to join). Hopefully she's reading this, today, and free. Hopefully.

I know ...it could *never* happen to YOU. That's what I think every person suckered "in" thinks, as they're joining. They don't see the walls.
I agree: Our hearts *are* with you.

Beware of the Scientology/Truman SHOW:::: IT IS THERE IN FULL.

Stay strong, and go with a friend. (The ol buddy routine--it works):omg::omg: (You, too? Let's get outta here!) :thumbsup:

Love to all :rose:

Tory/Magoo

 
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Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Wow Ethicsbait, what a terrible and wonderful situation you find yourself in.

Terrible because of all the obvious reasons:



But you also have an advantage not too many of us had when we were leaving. Most people including myself left (or were outed) with a bang and not much notice. Or we slowly drifted away 20 years ago without the advantage of the internet. You are in the position of being able to examine both "sides" of the story on a daily basis and make a decision in your own time without being forced.

I imagine (from what you've said about C/Sing cases) that you are not in much threat of being in session real soon. Most C/Ses I knew never got in session unless they were busted from *above* and hauled through a horrendous ethics trip "uplines". So you don't have to worry too much about the inevitable "Has a withhold been missed?" question.

My advice to you is to take your time. Read EVERYTHING. Really look at the products the Org is producing. Do they stack up to the stated EPs on the grade chart? Have you ever met a real Clear as per DMSMH? Have you ever met a real OT? Take a new unbiased look at your Org and Scientology across the planet. What are the big focuses? What are they regging for? Is it just more property, IAS & Superpower donations, basics packages etc or are they truly trying to get people up the Bridge?

If and when you decide to leave, plan it carefully. Take everything you can that is legally yours to take (emeter, books, dictionaries etc) and get copies of anything & everything. If you can't openly leave because of family then decide on how you can "get out gracefully". (hint: feeling "suicidal" seems to work well :D).

I feel for you. I remember when it first hit me that things were not right and I started to investigate. I was devastated at what I found and blew out of there pretty fast. If you can hang on, take it day by day and work out what you really believe then you'll work out what to do.

Scientology hangs together because of fear & lies. People are too afraid to speak up while they are in, so nobody knows that their friends & colleagues are all having the same doubts as they are, so they lie to each other. This might be the case with your family & you wouldn't know it.

Best of luck to you. :hug:

Excellent post Emma!

Especially the part about
Emma said:
Scientology hangs together because of fear & lies. People are too afraid to speak up while they are in, so nobody knows that their friends & colleagues are all having the same doubts as they are, so they lie to each other. This might be the case with your family & you wouldn't know it.
 
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