PISSED ,IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT !!!

[Gib]

Please spare me the "WINS" excuses all $cio's, defenders, and sympathizers trot out as "proof." All the above and more is done through psychological manipulation of decent people deceived into becoming dupes. $cientology is a criminal cult and the people inside no doubt are writing success stories about their "wins" this very moment. Hip hip hurray, wins for all!

That's why I have tried to explain about Idenics when I read about it.

Galusha & Mike found out it was the "WINS" that caused people to get stuck to scientology. The "wins" are the honey.

But there is freedom in being able to do something, and also freedom to not having to do something, or one's own choice in the matter. Hubbard capitalized, taught and enforced on just doing scientology, there can be only one in his eyes.

And just using hubbard's datum of comparable magnitude, here he enforces only one datum known as scientology, and yet doesn't allow anybody to compare datums. Laugher.

ps. I'm just telling what I learned, not promoting anything, but where I learned about what I wrote above.

 

[Mookster]

It means to deny something you need to understand what you are denying .

That says it all right there. If I had been in a cult and then found my way out, I think I would be terrified to accept everything that it meant. I would probably be very resistant to discovering exactly how and why I had been taken advantage of. Especially because highly intelligent people are the ones who are usually roped in most easily. When you know you are smarter than average, you expect that you are too smart to ever be sucked into something as nefarious as a cult. Accepting that the very thing you've always counted on and taken pride in (your mind) was responsible in part for your downfall, well that would be one bitter pill to swallow. LRH knew that just like he knew that the ego would kick in to protect most people who joined from wanting to face facts if they ever did begin to question.

I understand why some people are hell bent and determined to hang on to something from their experiences in the cult. Admitting you got suckered into buying a $3000.00 vacuum is difficult enough. Saying" My pursuits over the past [however many years] were an utter farce" is not an easy thing for anyone to do. It would be easier to say "I must be applying the tech wrong" than it would be to admit that you'd wasted so much time and money, even in the face of catalogs of evidence proving that the entire pursuit was a scam. A popular refrain is "I met good people there". I once spoke with a serial killer who was a really nice guy except for his tendency to murder travelers. I mean it. He was so pleasant you'd never have guessed he liked to butcher people. Point being that I understand grasping at any good you can find in a pit of awful.

All that to say that I have a great deal of empathy for those who can't quite let go just yet. I continue to have hope as I have since I discovered the nefarious activities of this cult back in the 80's, that one day they will find the strength to do so. It's great to see folks leaving in greater numbers these days btw. At the same time, I won't reinforce negative cult like behaviors because that doesn't help anyone. I will try not to be a complete jerk about it though. Pinkie swear.

 

[sallydannce]

I wrote this a few years ago when I was trying to express what waking up from mind control felt like.

What mind control feels like…

It feels like being swathed in cotton wool.

It feels like one is totally alive – part of something which gives the greatest rush possible.

It feels like everything will be taken care of. That one has ALL the answers, therefore it brings great comfort.

It feels like one is free of all emotions which are uncomfortable. Emotions which are not able to be easily experienced can be avoided, tuned out with ease.

Like one has the perfect map to guide one through all of life’s ups and downs.

Like one has the ability to circumvent all the crap of life. With some sort of fantastic impunity, some sort of invisible magic. Delusion.

Like there is something special coursing through one’s blood which gives vitality. Maybe this is what drug addiction feels like. I don’t know.

It feels like heaven. It feels like hell. The sensation that one should be aware of something but can never quite work out what it is – a huge frustration. Ignore it, carry on.

It feels like being permanently in a tunnel, being semi-aware of the walls of the tunnel and then not caring about the walls. Being semi-aware that there is life outside the tunnel but having invisible chains keeping you in the tunnel. The carrot of the promise of total freedom is too delicious. You are addicted to being in the tunnel.

Mind control feels like a total addiction to a drug called blind faith.

You give up everything that is you, and subscribe to the delicious faith that has so cleverly been installed into you. You let yourself be controlled by the drug of blind faith.

What it feels like to shed mind control

Like one has been thrown onto a huge pile of rocks – at speed.

Like one is spinning out of control and does not recognise anything. Like a million emotions have hit at once and one is not able to determine and process a single one of them.

Like everything from the past is delivered in a pile of rumble a one’s feet.

Like the old you, the real you, the person you were before the mind control took over, is dumped in front of you, unceremoniously, with a message that reads “now what?” You have no answers to that big question. Impotency.

Like one is fighting to draw sufficient air into one’s body. Like it is painful to breathe.

Like nothing will make any sense, ever again.

Like the light that has turned on is blinding you.

Like the colours of the world have all been drained out and you are left standing in a black and white sad pathetic unrecognizable place.

Like standing in foreign terrain and not knowing which way to go. Lost.

What feels to get out of mind control and begin to gain personal control

Like heaven.

Like all the colours have come back into life and the sun is shining brightly again.

Like every emotion you feel is just perfect, no matter what it is. Having feelings without interference and being aware of each little feeling.

Like your capacity to experience joyous feelings has suddenly reappeared and you get to experience it – on full volume. You are back in the real world.

Like re-connecting with everything that is decent and loving and pure and you are standing in the wonder of it all.

Like you could stand on the highest mountain and yell “I am having my own thoughts and seeing this beautiful world through my own eyes!” Awe!

Like you have been liberated from an oppressive invader.


Current thoughts after several years of rebuilding a life

Losing the cult installed identity is a huge job. Anyone that says otherwise, ain’t done it. There is no one “perfect” way to undo the programming. I did it fast (too fast) because I had studied mind-control when I did research for the cult. That irony will always make me smile.

It is fairly painful arduous process to lose the cult identity and build a strong sense of self. Frankly it would have been easier to cling to a bit of the cult identity. I see that clinging quite a bit with ex’s. I don’t say much, I seriously don’t like to judge. I know the pain - the sheer confusion - involved to deprogram. I know, up close and personal, what it takes to take every thought and word and restructure it. I know what it takes to consciously examine every automatic response and remove all the scientology tainted constructs from them.

I will never defend Hubbard, or the years I indulged in his madder-than-mad agenda. His insanity permeates all of scientology, even the stuff that "appears" useful, has a barb, a price to pay. His legacy contains nothing worthwhile – his (stolen and re-jigged) work only inflicts pain and suffering on decent folk and traps them without their even being aware of it.

The first step to true recovery, imho, is to admit to self that one has been mentally/spiritually abused. Just like being in an abusive relationship – or addicted to something external – the first step is to admit to self that there is something mighty wrong. Then the big job can begin.

Part of the “big job” is a deep intimate self-exploration. The depth of self-honestly required to become “abuse proof” is something that takes time, patience and care. Abuse does have a “self-serving” component. Cult/abuse-proofing requires a several pronged approach. Self-awareness, emotional growth, exploring broad new information and learning to critically work with new info. It’s a juggling act like no other, imho.

Scientology removes the true potential of an individual and shapes the identity to serve the group. It fucks with the core essence of an individual. Self-actualisation is not possible and that is a tragedy because every person has wonderful potential. Yes there are many circumstances that can inhibit a person's ability to self-actualise, however few are as devious and expensive (on so many levels) as scientology is. To say to someone "this is the path to freedom..." and then systematically imprison their mind and spirit – a mind fuck!

Should I stop raving now? Yeah. You are all probably sound asleep by now. I could rave on about the best brands of dark chocolate at this point and no one is even going to notice.

 

[Claire Swazey]

No one is coming after you, FFS. If I had a beef with you I would tell you so please stop trying to read into my every post as an affront with Claire in tow emoticon liking this silly drama nonsense. Thank you.

I used short words so your signature wtf Claire is indeed a wtf. LOL.

You click the post buttons frequently, yourself.

 

[Mookster]

I wrote this a few years ago when I was trying to express what waking up from mind control felt like.

What mind control feels like…

It feels like being swathed in cotton wool.

It feels like one is totally alive – part of something which gives the greatest rush possible.

It feels like everything will be taken care of. That one has ALL the answers, therefore it brings great comfort.

It feels like one is free of all emotions which are uncomfortable. Emotions which are not able to be easily experienced can be avoided, tuned out with ease.

Like one has the perfect map to guide one through all of life’s ups and downs.

Like one has the ability to circumvent all the crap of life. With some sort of fantastic impunity, some sort of invisible magic. Delusion.

Like there is something special coursing through one’s blood which gives vitality. Maybe this is what drug addiction feels like. I don’t know.

It feels like heaven. It feels like hell. The sensation that one should be aware of something but can never quite work out what it is – a huge frustration. Ignore it, carry on.

It feels like being permanently in a tunnel, being semi-aware of the walls of the tunnel and then not caring about the walls. Being semi-aware that there is life outside the tunnel but having invisible chains keeping you in the tunnel. The carrot of the promise of total freedom is too delicious. You are addicted to being in the tunnel.

Mind control feels like a total addiction to a drug called blind faith.

You give up everything that is you, and subscribe to the delicious faith that has so cleverly been installed into you. You let yourself be controlled by the drug of blind faith.

What it feels like to shed mind control

Like one has been thrown onto a huge pile of rocks – at speed.

Like one is spinning out of control and does not recognise anything. Like a million emotions have hit at once and one is not able to determine and process a single one of them.

Like everything from the past is delivered in a pile of rumble a one’s feet.

Like the old you, the real you, the person you were before the mind control took over, is dumped in front of you, unceremoniously, with a message that reads “now what?” You have no answers to that big question. Impotency.

Like one is fighting to draw sufficient air into one’s body. Like it is painful to breathe.

Like nothing will make any sense, ever again.

Like the light that has turned on is blinding you.

Like the colours of the world have all been drained out and you are left standing in a black and white sad pathetic unrecognizable place.

Like standing in foreign terrain and not knowing which way to go. Lost.

What feels to get out of mind control and begin to gain personal control

Like heaven.

Like all the colours have come back into life and the sun is shining brightly again.

Like every emotion you feel is just perfect, no matter what it is. Having feelings without interference and being aware of each little feeling.

Like your capacity to experience joyous feelings has suddenly reappeared and you get to experience it – on full volume. You are back in the real world.

Like re-connecting with everything that is decent and loving and pure and you are standing in the wonder of it all.

Like you could stand on the highest mountain and yell “I am having my own thoughts and seeing this beautiful world through my own eyes!” Awe!

Like you have been liberated from an oppressive invader.


Current thoughts after several years of rebuilding a life

Losing the cult installed identity is a huge job. Anyone that says otherwise, ain’t done it. There is no one “perfect” way to undo the programming. I did it fast (too fast) because I had studied mind-control when I did research for the cult. That irony will always make me smile.

It is fairly painful arduous process to lose the cult identity and build a strong sense of self. Frankly it would have been easier to cling to a bit of the cult identity. I see that clinging quite a bit with ex’s. I don’t say much, I seriously don’t like to judge. I know the pain - the sheer confusion - involved to deprogram. I know, up close and personal, what it takes to take every thought and word and restructure it. I know what it takes to consciously examine every automatic response and remove all the scientology tainted constructs from them.

I will never defend Hubbard, or the years I indulged in his madder-than-mad agenda. His insanity permeates all of scientology, even the stuff that "appears" useful, has a barb, a price to pay. His legacy contains nothing worthwhile – his (stolen and re-jigged) work only inflicts pain and suffering on decent folk and traps them without their even being aware of it.

The first step to true recovery, imho, is to admit to self that one has been mentally/spiritually abused. Just like being in an abusive relationship – or addicted to something external – the first step is to admit to self that there is something mighty wrong. Then the big job can begin.

Part of the “big job” is a deep intimate self-exploration. The depth of self-honestly required to become “abuse proof” is something that takes time, patience and care. Abuse does have a “self-serving” component. Cult/abuse-proofing requires a several pronged approach. Self-awareness, emotional growth, exploring broad new information and learning to critically work with new info. It’s a juggling act like no other, imho.

Scientology removes the true potential of an individual and shapes the identity to serve the group. It fucks with the core essence of an individual. Self-actualisation is not possible and that is a tragedy because every person has wonderful potential. Yes there are many circumstances that can inhibit a person's ability to self-actualise, however few are as devious and expensive (on so many levels) as scientology is. To say to someone "this is the path to freedom..." and then systematically imprison their mind and spirit – a mind fuck!

Should I stop raving now? Yeah. You are all probably sound asleep by now. I could rave on about the best brands of dark chocolate at this point and no one is even going to notice.

I read every word. I would have read more if you'd written them. You brought me to tears. I'm so glad you got through it and came out the other side.

 

[gbuck]

But can't you see the problem with that (even accepting, as I do, that much of that is most likely true)? It makes it absolutely impossible for anyone to come on here and defend the things that they believe did work well for them, in good faith, because you've already asserted that any attempt to do so must be the result of "mind control".

It's a total no-lose situation for you, and a no-win situation for them.

Ok, you point is clear and correct, but I'm not interested in being adversarial!
It's a waste of time and energy to attack and defend belief.
My question is simply, if that's possible, to examine the process of believing and where it leads,
in myself mainly, cos I'm here and handy.
I have no business in knocking away anyone's foundations of thought or belief, even if I could, because if that is attempted, the individual will defend his basic belief even more, we'll you would, wouldn't you? I hope this little story will show somewhat, how belief can prevent open and honest communication:

I was offered a leaflet by a woman in london which I politely refused, she was middle aged, attractive, and cheerful, with a cheeky sparkle in her eye. Just my type!
We felt comfortable talking, she then proceeded to remind me of the state of the world, terrorism, unemployment etc. etc. and asked if I was interested in a solution to all of these problems and more!
I asked her what she meant, and she started referring to the bible and the answers therein.
I told her that I don't take the bible as a starting point to living.
She went into what I would describe as biblical mode and I could see the change in her, she was a different person with drive and desire to convince, her whole manner shifted slightly.

The woman I started to talk to was not there any more, she was talking from her belief and was no longer talking to me!
I can't remember what I said exactly, but she stopped the spiel, and we had a playful, slightly flirtatious bit of repartee, and parted on good terms, she giving me a gentle slap on the shoulder with one of her leaflets.
It was not my job to disabuse her of her belief, but I was aware that her belief prevented
communication in some areas.
What would you call that type of behaviour?
She was well intentioned, polite, and cheerful, but she was selling me a package of ideas, to help me of course!

 

[gbuck]

I agree however I think the $cio cult indoctrination is much deeper than the surface cult labels you've mentioned. It's the cognitive thought processes, the mental machinery a cultist uses with those labels filtering out any perceived negativity towards $cientology. As Hubbard intended.

The inner nature of how and what you think and feel is rewritten into a cult-speak-think-feel-morality, an anthropomorphic like robotic automaton by Elcon's $cientology. An inner prison of belief that dictates your every decision with what becomes self enforcing blinders. The indoctrination is so seductively insidious, it's like a lover wooing you for another tryst. Totalitarian regimes work with the same tools instilling fanatical loyalty and George Orwell's 1984 is a prime example of what Elcon attempted to do. Here's a Margaret Singer quote that describes Elcon and $cientology to a T.

"Modern-day cults and thought-reform groups tend to offer apparent utopias, places where all humankind's ills will be cured. The cults' lure is, if you just come along, all will be fine, and everyone will live happily ever after.

"Down through time, people have written about such promised utopias, but they have also described their downsides, which might be called negative utopias. In 1949, George Orwell wrote about the negative utopia he feared would evolve, perhaps by 1984. Others before him, such as Daniel Defoe, Aldous Huxley, and Jack London, had also written about negative utopias in which political systems gradually curbed and eventually stifled people's most central capacities for reasoning creatively, scientifically, and compassionately. In these real or imagined centralized governments, torture, drugs, and mysterious, esoteric techniques were the feared methods by which people might be controlled.

[HIGHLIGHT]"Orwell's genius was in sensing that combinations of social and psychological techniques are easier, more effective, and cheaper than the gun-to-the-head methods of coercion. Social and psychological persuasion is also less likely to attract attention and thus is less apt to mobilize opposition early and easily from those being manipulated. Orwell reasoned that if a government could control all media and interpersonal communication while simultaneously forcing citizens to speak in a politically controlled jargon, it could blunt independent thinking. If thought could be controlled, then rebellious actions against a regime could be prevented. Not only in his book Nineteen Eighty-Four but also in his essays on politics and the English language, Orwell emphasized the power of words. Words represent thoughts, and without the capability to express thoughts, people lose access to their own thinking."[/HIGHLIGHT]

Dr. Margaret Thaler Singer - Cults In Our Midst
http://www.factnet.org/cults-our-midst

Absolutely!
Maybe you need to have been there to realise the living truth and effect of all of this, it is so personal.
Are we privileged?

 

[Free Being Me]

(I'm going to reply strictly to this post, so most readers might want to skip it).

That symposium became sort of a nightmare. It became readily apparent that most people in the class were going to stick with their pre-conceived notions on EVERYTHING, and I was pissed. As much as I don't like being wrong, I am open to the fact and have done 180 switches when I have been given data and such that makes me change my mind. Coming out of a cult, I learned not to stick with 'true answers'. In a way, I became a bitch in that class. I would start arguing the most ridiculous idea I could come up with at the moment... not as devil's advocate, but just because I was so frustrated with the stuck mindsets. I started out arguing pro-incest, and it got even weirder from there... if you're curious, I'll PM you... this came up with my son the other day, and he was really oddly amused by the whole thing.

I only have one son in my life--the other is in the Sea Org, so I'm still connected to Scio whether I like it or not.

To me, your posts have never come off as accusative (unless I'm forgetting some). I do get pissed off a bit when some folks go into the whole "we were idiots and fooled". It's just too simplistic for me and doesn't really solve anything IMNSHO. Why the fuck were we led into it? How were we led in? Why were people that we admired and considered smart also pulled into this thing (rightfully) called a cult and why do cults tend to have members of "above average" intelligence.

And, yeah, it still bothers me that there is the continued fight to glean the good out of it. Why? If I dated some jerk who beat the hell out of me and took all my money, I could go back to the time he gave me flowers.... and so? Yeah? I might feel better that I dated that jerk. But, I could have bought myself some flowers, but while I was with him, I expected flowers only from him and assumed they were the BEST flowers... and (ok, that analogy kind of sucks, but you probably get my point)

I've read articles that people who become involved with cults are generally intelligent, well meaning folk yet have blind spots and vulnerabilities making them targets. A cult ($cientology is very good at this) uses grooming, a predatory act of maneuvering another individual into a position that makes them more isolated, dependent, likely to trust, and more vulnerable to abusive behavior. Add love bombing to the mix and that's premeditated predatory manipulation. In essence each of us was to some degree groomed and love bombed into joining $cientology.

WHO DO CULTS RECRUIT?
http://www.cultavoidancesociety.org/Cult--5.html​

[HIGHLIGHT]People do NOT join Cults - They are Recruited![/HIGHLIGHT]

“Aren’t Cult members simply weird and gullible?” “I would NEVER get tricked into joining a Cult!”

Cult members can come from all social backgrounds, age groups and personality types. They are usually idealistic, intelligent, well educated and from a good family background - anyone can fall victim to sophisticated Cult recruitment techniques that are constantly being changed and refined.

Most people are unprepared, either through education or personal experience, for the powerful impact of deceptive Cult methodology. People only remain in Cults due to the deceptive use of Mind Control and psychological coercion.

Cults will often target people who:

• Are away from home for the first time
• University and College Students
• Have suffered a romantic breakup
• Have had a death in the Family
• Have personal problems
• Are at a vulnerable point in their lives
• Elderly people living alone

It's very common for abusee's to defend their abuser(s). Factor in the mental/emotional manipulation of $cientology/$cientologists and that's where the denial and defense comes into play when discussing $cientology. The sum total of Elcon's Indoctrination runs deep, it's supposed too and willful ignorance plays a part as well. The cognitive dissonance resulting from Elcon's cult is phenomenal and sadly that can't be reasoned with, it's so individualistic when a person finally starts to decompress and Onion Peel (if ever) that process can't be hurried (and believe me I wish I knew of a way to do just that). Witness the very lengthy all hell breaks loose threads here of people defending Elcon/$cientology. Being out and deprogrammed it's morbidly fascinating watching people defend Elcon/$cientology, a heartless sociopath who used the choicest Machiavellian methods of thought reform to utterly deceive and abuse his followers. And people defend that!!!!!! Incredible.

I wrote this a few years ago when I was trying to express what waking up from mind control felt like.

What mind control feels like…

It feels like being swathed in cotton wool.

It feels like one is totally alive – part of something which gives the greatest rush possible.

It feels like everything will be taken care of. That one has ALL the answers, therefore it brings great comfort.

It feels like one is free of all emotions which are uncomfortable. Emotions which are not able to be easily experienced can be avoided, tuned out with ease.

Like one has the perfect map to guide one through all of life’s ups and downs.

Like one has the ability to circumvent all the crap of life. With some sort of fantastic impunity, some sort of invisible magic. Delusion.

Like there is something special coursing through one’s blood which gives vitality. Maybe this is what drug addiction feels like. I don’t know.

It feels like heaven. It feels like hell. The sensation that one should be aware of something but can never quite work out what it is – a huge frustration. Ignore it, carry on.

It feels like being permanently in a tunnel, being semi-aware of the walls of the tunnel and then not caring about the walls. Being semi-aware that there is life outside the tunnel but having invisible chains keeping you in the tunnel. The carrot of the promise of total freedom is too delicious. You are addicted to being in the tunnel.

Mind control feels like a total addiction to a drug called blind faith.

You give up everything that is you, and subscribe to the delicious faith that has so cleverly been installed into you. You let yourself be controlled by the drug of blind faith.

What it feels like to shed mind control

Like one has been thrown onto a huge pile of rocks – at speed.

Like one is spinning out of control and does not recognise anything. Like a million emotions have hit at once and one is not able to determine and process a single one of them.

Like everything from the past is delivered in a pile of rumble a one’s feet.

Like the old you, the real you, the person you were before the mind control took over, is dumped in front of you, unceremoniously, with a message that reads “now what?” You have no answers to that big question. Impotency.

Like one is fighting to draw sufficient air into one’s body. Like it is painful to breathe.

Like nothing will make any sense, ever again.

Like the light that has turned on is blinding you.

Like the colours of the world have all been drained out and you are left standing in a black and white sad pathetic unrecognizable place.

Like standing in foreign terrain and not knowing which way to go. Lost.

What feels to get out of mind control and begin to gain personal control

Like heaven.

Like all the colours have come back into life and the sun is shining brightly again.

Like every emotion you feel is just perfect, no matter what it is. Having feelings without interference and being aware of each little feeling.

Like your capacity to experience joyous feelings has suddenly reappeared and you get to experience it – on full volume. You are back in the real world.

Like re-connecting with everything that is decent and loving and pure and you are standing in the wonder of it all.

Like you could stand on the highest mountain and yell “I am having my own thoughts and seeing this beautiful world through my own eyes!” Awe!

Like you have been liberated from an oppressive invader.


Current thoughts after several years of rebuilding a life

Losing the cult installed identity is a huge job. Anyone that says otherwise, ain’t done it. There is no one “perfect” way to undo the programming. I did it fast (too fast) because I had studied mind-control when I did research for the cult. That irony will always make me smile.

It is fairly painful arduous process to lose the cult identity and build a strong sense of self. Frankly it would have been easier to cling to a bit of the cult identity. I see that clinging quite a bit with ex’s. I don’t say much, I seriously don’t like to judge. I know the pain - the sheer confusion - involved to deprogram. I know, up close and personal, what it takes to take every thought and word and restructure it. I know what it takes to consciously examine every automatic response and remove all the scientology tainted constructs from them.

I will never defend Hubbard, or the years I indulged in his madder-than-mad agenda. His insanity permeates all of scientology, even the stuff that "appears" useful, has a barb, a price to pay. His legacy contains nothing worthwhile – his (stolen and re-jigged) work only inflicts pain and suffering on decent folk and traps them without their even being aware of it.

The first step to true recovery, imho, is to admit to self that one has been mentally/spiritually abused. Just like being in an abusive relationship – or addicted to something external – the first step is to admit to self that there is something mighty wrong. Then the big job can begin.

Part of the “big job” is a deep intimate self-exploration. The depth of self-honestly required to become “abuse proof” is something that takes time, patience and care. Abuse does have a “self-serving” component. Cult/abuse-proofing requires a several pronged approach. Self-awareness, emotional growth, exploring broad new information and learning to critically work with new info. It’s a juggling act like no other, imho.

Scientology removes the true potential of an individual and shapes the identity to serve the group. It fucks with the core essence of an individual. Self-actualisation is not possible and that is a tragedy because every person has wonderful potential. Yes there are many circumstances that can inhibit a person's ability to self-actualise, however few are as devious and expensive (on so many levels) as scientology is. To say to someone "this is the path to freedom..." and then systematically imprison their mind and spirit – a mind fuck!

Should I stop raving now? Yeah. You are all probably sound asleep by now. I could rave on about the best brands of dark chocolate at this point and no one is even going to notice.

A beautiful, insightful, intelligent, and authentic post as always, Sally. You do see right to heart of the matter concisely and precisely. I copy/pasted your post to a doc so I can read it in the future. Thank you.

On a more personal note I know you lost your best truest friend, Fummy and from the Choir thread perhaps some frustration(?) so I would like to say you being here is a blessing and your contributions to ESMB are priceless.

 

[Free Being Me]

That's why I have tried to explain about Idenics when I read about it.

Galusha & Mike found out it was the "WINS" that caused people to get stuck to scientology. The "wins" are the honey.

But there is freedom in being able to do something, and also freedom to not having to do something, or one's own choice in the matter. Hubbard capitalized, taught and enforced on just doing scientology, there can be only one in his eyes.

And just using hubbard's datum of comparable magnitude, here he enforces only one datum known as scientology, and yet doesn't allow anybody to compare datums. Laugher.

ps. I'm just telling what I learned, not promoting anything, but where I learned about what I wrote above.

Gib, I know you mean well and I believe you're a hell of person with a keen intellect and good heart. With that said I am not impressed with nor looking for $cio spin offs. No matter how many times you mention Idenics my Spidey Cult Sense Early Warning System activates ... lol. After having been through $cientology for decades the last thing I'm looking for in my life is a $cientologist's derivation based on Elcon. By Xenu, there's so much of life to explore and live I respectably decline in favor of other pursuits.

 

[gbuck]

Hi sallydance,
I'm lost for words.....
thank you for sharing your experience, it's the real thing, not theory nor 'intellectuall understanding'.
You put it beautifully and clearly.
I left more than 30 years ago and know how the tek lingers, myself, little bits popping up into awareness here and there, it's so good to spot and dissolve them by simply looking clearly, as the tek reveals itself to be bullshit entirely.
Personally I feel no sense of loss at discovering this,only a sense of freedom.
I read a story of a guy who had been practising a type of meditation for more than 40 years, who realised that he was wasting his time and was running around in circles. He wasn't pisssed off, but was happy at the discovery.

Dark chocolate is the best ( I read every word)
Thanks.

 

[Free Being Me]

Hypnosis
Excerpt From Cults In Our Midst by Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph.D.
http://www.ex-premie.org/singer/
(Full excerpt at link)​

"Hypnosis is classed as a psychological rather than a physiological method because it is essentially a form of highly focused mental concentration in which one person allows another to structure the object of the concentration and simultaneously suspends critical judgment and peripheral awareness. When this method is used in a cultic environment, it becomes a form of psychological manipulation and coercion because the cult leader implants suggestions aimed at his own agenda while the person is in a vulnerable state.

A trance is a phenomenon in which our consciousness or awareness is modified. Our awareness seems to split as our active critical-evaluative thinking dims, and we slip from an active into a passive-receptive mode of mental processing. We listen or look without reflection or evaluation. We suspend rational analysis, independent judgment, and conscious decision making about what we are hearing or taking in. We lose the boundaries between what we wish were true and what is factual. Imagination and reality intertwine, and our self and the selves of others seem more like one self. Our mental gears shift into receptivity, leaving active mental processing in neutral.

Trancelike states can occur during hypnosis, during complete absorption in reading or hearing stories, and during marked concentration. They are sometimes referred to as altered states of consciousness. While in an altered state, for the most part we experience an absence of our usual generalized reality orientation (GRO) -- that is, we are not actively noticing or aware of our environment and our part in it. In normal waking life, our GRO is our frame of reference, serving as background to our ongoing conscious experiences, our awareness. Our GRO shapes a context within which we interpret what is going on. This frame of reference can fade away under certain circumstances: hypnosis, meditation, guided imagery, drug use, fatigue, and sensory deprivation. When our GRO is weakened, we become both more suggestible to outside influences and more influenced by inner fantasies.

A number of cults use techniques that put people into an altered state of consciousness, making them more compliant. I am not saying that cult members walk around mesmerized, tranced out, and hypnotized for years on end. What I am saying is this: many cults and groups that use thought-reform techniques engage members in a fair amount of behavior that induces trances, as evidenced by the types and quality of the lectures and sermons and the required activities, such as prolonged chanting or meditation, and repetitive rote behavior. When transient trance states are induced, they may be inadvertent by-products of the group's exercises and methods of using language, or they may well be induced by design, although often not identified by the group as trance-inducing techniques. The most common procedure used is known as naturalistic trance induction, and many cults have relied on this technique.

One of the best explanations of how to go about inducing human cooperation and compliance in certain settings grows out of studies done of such naturalistic trance inductions. In the professional world of psychology, these indirect trance inductions were designed to bypass the usual resistance of patients who sought help but also resisted change when given direct instructions or suggestions. Naturalistic trance induction is also the model for some of the maneuvers used by cult leaders to change the attitudes and behaviors of their followers."

 

[Gib]

Gib, I know you mean well and I believe you're a hell of person with a keen intellect and good heart. With that said I am not impressed with nor looking for $cio spin offs. No matter how many times you mention Idenics my Spidey Cult Sense Early Warning System activates ... lol. After having been through $cientology for decades the last thing I'm looking for in my life is a $cientologist's derivation based on Elcon. By Xenu, there's so much of life to explore and live I respectably decline in favor of other pursuits.

I understand, really.

Did you not read the PS I stated at the end?

Idenics got me to lose the cult mindset.

While others here have stated what books to read, and other researches, to lose the cult mindset,

I am only stating what book ultimately got me to lose the cult mindset.

Why do you think I am trying to get YOU to do Idenics?

You're out. I'm out.

Reading the Idenics book actually helped me to steel myself from cult think, of any kind.

You yourself promote lots of books to read, to lose the cult mindset. Somebody in the the cult mindset will not read about psychology, or anything similar, as they like me were indoctrinated into believing that stuff is false. But once I read the Idenics book and compared to scientology, me eyes went wide open.

I'm using a different approach, as it helped me ultimately to lose the Bridge to Total freedom mindset.

You somehow think I am trying to promote a off shoot, which I am not. I am promoting a subject that helped me to escape Hubbard's cave.

What I say may help some, it may not help some. As Arnie says, if I help one person to get out of scientology, I am happy.

 

[Free Being Me]

I understand, really.

Did you not read the PS I stated at the end?

Idenics got me to lose the cult mindset.

While others here have stated what books to read, and other researches, to lose the cult mindset,

I am only stating what book ultimately got me to lose the cult mindset.

Why do you think I am trying to get YOU to do Idenics?

You're out. I'm out.

Reading the Idenics book actually helped me to steel myself from cult think, of any kind.

You yourself promote lots of books to read, to lose the cult mindset. Somebody in the the cult mindset will not read about psychology, or anything similar, as they like me were indoctrinated into believing that stuff is false. But once I read the Idenics book and compared to scientology, me eyes went wide open.

I'm using a different approach, as it helped me ultimately to lose the Bridge to Total freedom mindset.

You somehow think I am trying to promote a off shoot, which I am not. I am promoting a subject that helped me to escape Hubbard's cave.

What I say may help some, it may not help some. As Arnie says, if I help one person to get out of scientology, I am happy.

I'm genuinely happy you're out Gib, you have your mind, heart and life back. That is what leaving a cult is all about >celebrate<. I'm out, so many here are out with self-deprogamming cult recovery it's amazing ESMB can offer that communal guidance with books, lectures, videos, moral support and conversation.

I'm not here to say which direction is better. What I may have found significant will perhaps not resonate with another. I post and leave that post there for individual choice because what may not make sense today might tomorrow and I don't claim to be a deprogrammer. Every person is an individual montage and that culty fixing people mania makes me cringe.

As an Ex and critic I cannot in good faith recommend, endorse, nor forward anything Elcon, nor the $cio spin-offs $cio's come up with. John Galusha was a $cio from 1953 leaving $cientology in 1987 starting Idenics, his spin on Elcon's con as an Indie Guru. I don't prop up Guru's of any stripe and it would be disservice doing so to those leaving the cult bubble.

 

[gbuck]

Hypnosis
Excerpt From Cults In Our Midst by Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph.D.
http://www.ex-premie.org/singer/
(Full excerpt at link)​

"Hypnosis is classed as a psychological rather than a physiological method because it is essentially a form of highly focused mental concentration in which one person allows another to structure the object of the concentration and simultaneously suspends critical judgment and peripheral awareness. When this method is used in a cultic environment, it becomes a form of psychological manipulation and coercion because the cult leader implants suggestions aimed at his own agenda while the person is in a vulnerable state.

A trance is a phenomenon in which our consciousness or awareness is modified. Our awareness seems to split as our active critical-evaluative thinking dims, and we slip from an active into a passive-receptive mode of mental processing. We listen or look without reflection or evaluation. We suspend rational analysis, independent judgment, and conscious decision making about what we are hearing or taking in. We lose the boundaries between what we wish were true and what is factual. Imagination and reality intertwine, and our self and the selves of others seem more like one self. Our mental gears shift into receptivity, leaving active mental processing in neutral.

Trancelike states can occur during hypnosis, during complete absorption in reading or hearing stories, and during marked concentration. They are sometimes referred to as altered states of consciousness. While in an altered state, for the most part we experience an absence of our usual generalized reality orientation (GRO) -- that is, we are not actively noticing or aware of our environment and our part in it. In normal waking life, our GRO is our frame of reference, serving as background to our ongoing conscious experiences, our awareness. Our GRO shapes a context within which we interpret what is going on. This frame of reference can fade away under certain circumstances: hypnosis, meditation, guided imagery, drug use, fatigue, and sensory deprivation. When our GRO is weakened, we become both more suggestible to outside influences and more influenced by inner fantasies.

A number of cults use techniques that put people into an altered state of consciousness, making them more compliant. I am not saying that cult members walk around mesmerized, tranced out, and hypnotized for years on end. What I am saying is this: many cults and groups that use thought-reform techniques engage members in a fair amount of behavior that induces trances, as evidenced by the types and quality of the lectures and sermons and the required activities, such as prolonged chanting or meditation, and repetitive rote behavior. When transient trance states are induced, they may be inadvertent by-products of the group's exercises and methods of using language, or they may well be induced by design, although often not identified by the group as trance-inducing techniques. The most common procedure used is known as naturalistic trance induction, and many cults have relied on this technique.

One of the best explanations of how to go about inducing human cooperation and compliance in certain settings grows out of studies done of such naturalistic trance inductions. In the professional world of psychology, these indirect trance inductions were designed to bypass the usual resistance of patients who sought help but also resisted change when given direct instructions or suggestions. Naturalistic trance induction is also the model for some of the maneuvers used by cult leaders to change the attitudes and behaviors of their followers."

A different approach to the subject.
This also relates to other posts, about deprogramming, hypnosis etc.
My approach to losing the mindset without the introduction of another mindset to be used as a crutch, or as a replacement I was aided helped by this gent amongst others, it's difficult to explain how another person could help you without influencing what you may discover!
I hope it is useful.

Concentration implies narrowing down our energy
You know what concentration is—from childhood, we are trained to concentrate. Concentration is the narrowing down all our energy to a particular point, and holding to that point. A boy in school looks out of the window at the birds and the trees, at the movement of the leaves, or at the squirrel climbing the tree. And the teacher says: “You are not paying attention, concentrate on the book”, or “Listen to what I am saying.”
This is to give far more importance to concentration than to attention. If I were the teacher I would help him to watch; I would help him to watch that squirrel completely; watch the movement of the tail, how its claws act, everything. Then if he learns to watch that attentively, he will pay attention to the book.


Questions and Answers, p 43 J Krishnamurti

Concentration implies distraction.
So a mind that has the power of concentration, that says it has complete control over thought, is a stupid mind. If that is so, then you must find a way of enquiring which is not merely through concentration. Concentration implies distraction, does it not? The mind takes up a position and says everything else is a distraction. It says I must think about this and exclude everything else. Now to me there is no such thing as distraction because there is no central position which the mind takes and then says: I will pursue this and not that. So let us remove both the word and the condemnatory feeling of distraction. Please experience what I am saying. Remove that word distraction not merely verbally but emotionally, inwardly. Then you will see what happens to your mind. To us at present there is concentration and distraction, a concentrated outlook and a wandering off. So you see we have created a duality, and therefore a conflict. You spend your life battling between the chosen thought and the distractions, and when you can get an hour when you are completely held by an idea you feel you have achieved something. But if you remove this idea of distraction altogether then you will find that your mind is in a state of reaction - in a state of association which you call "wandering". That is the fact, and you have removed the element of conflict. Then you are free to deal with the wanderings; you can enquire as to why the mind wanders and not merely try to stop it, to control it. Then, since you have removed the word, the feeling of being distracted, what is now operating is a mind that is attentive to the wandering, to reaction.


Poona 4th Public Talk 17th September 1958 Collected Works Volume 17

 

[guRl]

Mockingbird, I have to say, your thread and all the posts in it, seriously hit the spot with me.
In my own personal quest of researching Scientology and being able to help people who want out, I'd like to believe that I'm properly equipped with all information and knowledge necessary and that I'm getting closer and closer to understanding what Scientologists and Exes are going through. But I can never
really know, not having being there myself. And sometimes I have those dark moments when I simply lose patience. I think about my loved one, think about other Scientologists I got to contact over time, and I get angry- "these are amazing, intelligent and brilliant people, and yet they stick with Scientology on and on! They are voluntarily blind, it's their own fault, they know damn well what's going on around them, and they simply don't care!"
A few days ago I was in my "normal, scholarly patient" mood, read the OP of this thread, nodded to myself and left it there. Than this morning, I got into my
"It's their fault and they're pissing me off!" round. I actually considered venting about it in my own thread here, but then I remembered this thread, and felt I should read the OP again, and all the rest of the posts.
Thank you Mocingbird for starting it and thank you posters for participating, to me it's one of the most helpful threads I've ever encountered on ESMB

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Additional symptoms of this condition are being defensive , elitist , narcisisstic , and thinking in and not recognizing the following logical fallacies regarding study tech or Scientology in general or parts of it : Personal incredulity , black and white thinking , magical thinking , the Texas sharpshooter fallacy ( aka apophenia ) , Ad Hominem , no true Scotsman ( Scientologist ) , Appeal to authority ( their own or LRH ) , begging the question , genetic , burden of proof , ambiguity , bandwagon , anecdotal and of course tu quoque .

ron seems to change right around 1968...

this is when he appears to introduce a declaration of messiahhood into the red on white in the CLVIII materials

back in the fifties he was repeatedly pressing on those close to him that he was just a man. in deed the fifties seem almost a golden age in many ways

also 1968 marks the release of OTIII and the beginning of the sea project

i was in during the early seventies when scn in the outer orgs was for many of us an awful lot of fun and it is only here on esmb that i've learned how different it was at it's core, the apollo then...

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Mockingbird, I have to say, your thread and all the posts in it, seriously hit the spot with me.
In my own personal quest of researching Scientology and being able to help people who want out, I'd like to believe that I'm properly equipped with all information and knowledge necessary and that I'm getting closer and closer to understanding what Scientologists and Exes are going through. But I can never
really know, not having being there myself. And sometimes I have those dark moments when I simply lose patience. I think about my loved one, think about other Scientologists I got to contact over time, and I get angry- "these are amazing, intelligent and brilliant people, and yet they stick with Scientology on and on! They are voluntarily blind, it's their own fault, they know damn well what's going on around them, and they simply don't care!"
A few days ago I was in my "normal, scholarly patient" mood, read the OP of this thread, nodded to myself and left it there. Than this morning, I got into my
"It's their fault and they're pissing me off!" round. I actually considered venting about it in my own thread here, but then I remembered this thread, and felt I should read the OP again, and all the rest of the posts.
Thank you Mocingbird for starting it and thank you posters for participating, to me it's one of the most helpful threads I've ever encountered on ESMB

they stick not just because of the manipulation but because there really is some great stuff in the lrh/csi imprimatur

i left pretty quickly. i'm in on the bill of rights big time and it was being violated. i wouldn't go along with that no matter how good the materials were. but i am not going to deny there's great stuff in the materials

 

[He-man]

Mockingbird, that was a fantastic OP, I've nothing to add but I rally have to say that I can see what you wrote was what happened to me in the Sea Org.

 

[Veda]

-snip-

back in the fifties he was repeatedly pressing on those close to him that he was just a man.

-snip-

Riiiiiiiiiight.

From the 1946 'Affirmations':

You cannot now accumulate karma for you are a master adept. Your voice is low and compelling to them... destroys their will to resist...

Your writing has a deep hypnotic effect on people and they are always pleased with what you write...

Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler.​

From 'Hymn of Asia', written in 1955:

I can be addressed
But in our temples best
Address me and you address
Lord Buddha.
Address Lord Buddha
And you then address
Metteyya.​

1963:

 

[Free Being Me]

they stick not just because of the manipulation but because there really is some great stuff in the lrh/csi imprimatur

i left pretty quickly. i'm in on the bill of rights big time and it was being violated. i wouldn't go along with that no matter how good the materials were. but i am not going to deny there's great stuff in the materials

Why do you obliviously bang on telling cult survivors how "good" the cult leader and his cult were? It's like going to a women's refuge center telling the women there how "good" their rapist/abuser was. That's incredibly stupid and heartless. People are suffering the deaths of loved ones, separated from family, going to counseling, escaping $cientology this very minute, trying to find themselves again rebuilding their lives all because of Elcon's cult. Talk about clueless.