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Plagiarism

Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by Twin A, Mar 16, 2009.

  1. Twin A

    Twin A Patron with Honors

    This Saturday I was sitting in my scriptwriting class in college and I got sick to my stomach, :puke2:

    because the teacher showed this video earlier and had us read a book about scriptwriting and creating characters, he talked about the basic story structure of a script and how characters are communicated with. It's a lot about the creative process and Art as a form of communication. I have heard so many things my new class and in the last weeks lecture that I'd read earlier from Hubbard's Cine Eds and Art Series. I was kind of shocked. I got really mad...:grouch:

    HubToad stole this shit too!!!! And he didn't give anyone else any credit. And he didn't even teach it nearly as well. My teacher has so many great examples and anecdotes to explain the ideas, Hubtoad leaves that part out.

    I spent 10 years in the Cine Division in Gold and before that as a Cine Messenger, for about 3 years, so..... I didn't get involved in the great "tech"of counseling besides being a PC and maybe a little basic delivery of assists and a few Objectives on someone else, my whole idea or "faith", or belief in Hubtoad was because he seemed like such a genius regarding the art shit. I mean I figured he'd worked all this cool stuff out, and I am finding out now that it's COMMON knowledge, it's taught in film schools all over the world and has been since the 70's.

    Stuff like how to tell how good a work of art is by how much of an emotional impact it makes on an audience.... :omg:

    What the heck :angry:. Hubtoad didn't figure out that philosphy of art. He read it or heard it from someone else.

    Oh... and did you know that the phrase, "what is true for you is true for you" is also a YOGA term? This is part of Yoga, EVERYONE thinks this way, they don't have a choice. It's called POINT OF VIEW. Everyone has a point of view and they think what they think is TRUE, until they modify it with new information. I mean saying "what is true for you is true for you" is like saying " The sky is blue" It's just a statement of fact, it isn't some magicaly LRH religious idea. Syd Field talks about it in his book about Screenwriting, when he's explaining about characters and their points of view.

    There are some really great authors who have written about how to create stories and characters, Joseph Cambell is one of them, he's got some amazing things to say. I've heard that name before, did Hubtoad know him? Because he definately stole shit from him too.

    I don't know why this makes me so mad. I guess, it was just part of what made me just go completely nuts in the Sea Org was this delusion I had that LRH was this great man with all this great knowledge and when I was getting kicked out, RPFd and declared and everything, it was just like the end of the world for a while :bigcry: but I just keep finding out that my state of mind then was just a delusion that was created by Hubtoad not acknowledging or footnoting any other sources of his information, making himself "source" of everything, including how to make films and art, and I was made dependent on him in the SO by denying me access through a proper education to the worlds scholars and writers and stuff, people who figured shit out way before Hubtoad did and wrote it down.

    Why did Hubtoad do that :grouch: He was a mean old man! Meany!

    I found another newspaper article a couple years ago in my History of Cinema class, I think it was a New Times writer or Washington Post writer, around 1984. It was almost word for word the same as Hubbard's later issue called "Cine is PIX." He stole that too, because he probably read the paper and I wasn't allowed to, so of course, I thought Hubbard had this great moment of mental accuity brought about in part by my having made sure his laundry didn't smell like laundry soap.... In 1984, at Gold, Everyone in Cine had to M9 this Hubtoad advice as soon as it came out, which is what we all did when Hubtoad was still alive, we had to M9 his advices that were to us or info copied to us or about our department. I remember thinking how smart this Hubtoad advice was, it later got made blue on white, an LRH ED CINE, NOT TO LEAVE THE BASE. They've got books and books of Hubtoad's writings NOT TO LEAVE THE BASE. I wonder how much of that is all just bullshit plagiarism of other people's writings that Hubbard repeated and put his damn name on it, so that we would worship him as the source of all the good knowledge in the world.

    Oh my god :omg: this so pisses me off. How am I going to get through this class now, I'm going to be sitting in my chair thinking "Fuck Fucking HUBTOAD", I could have gone to community college, and paid practically nothing to learn this great art stuff, when instead, I had to learn it from HUBTOAD and pay for it with years of my life, as it if was unique and precious like gold, that I'd got to read Hubtoads great confidential Cine EDs.... like I was somehow blessed.....

    Good thing that Hubtoad doesn't have a grave plot, I'd probably have gone and puked on it myself on Saturday evening.

    What more am I going to find out that Hubtoad stole? I guess I shouldn't be shocked, it shouldn't bother me anymore, it just that this time, it kind of was more about my life in the Sea Org and the clique of Scientology fanatics that I grew up with, the whole idea that Hubtoad was some kind of master artist when he just wasn't, and I was forced to study his blather instead of getting a real education in art like I'd wanted. :grouch:
     
  2. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    I don't know that I have the same perspective as you. Hubbard often said he got a lot of his ideas and "tech" from other sources. He didn't put footnotes in his books or HCOBs, yes. He didn't "itemize", so to speak, but he did say so.

    Also, if someone talks about a phenomenon or some fact or stance or whatnot, they don't tend to always say where they got it. Most of what we discuss (I don't mean ESMB-we, I mean any humans...) is stuff that was discovered previously.
     
  3. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    Yeah isn't that interesting, Twin A?

    Hubby and I been finding ourselves naturally gravitating toward certain Authors (Joseph Murphy, Ernest Holmes, etc..) and we find lines like what huboad's presented in them, all the time! :wtf: )

    And wow, That 'what is true' line is from YOGA?! Cool! :thumbsup:

    Michelle
     
  4. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron



    Got any sources there Fluffy?

    I'm going to start hacking on the tech as much as you defend it, tell me how much it might piss you off. Maybe you'll get the point then....
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  5. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    Very interesting. I wondered how much he tried to make look was his own. More and more truth keeps sqeeking out.

    I hope this is helping you more than pissing you off. I mean that you can now see that those same things weren't Hubbards to begin with.
     
  6. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    The ghosts under the bed turn out to have been dust bunnies all along.

    Zinj
     
  7. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron



    You probably already know this but when you're well indoctrinated in Scioism you think Hubbard had his own way to do things and those were the only ways to do things. Fuck the rest of the world, we got Hubbard Mr. perfect on our side.

    :duh:
     
  8. GreyLensman

    GreyLensman Silver Meritorious Patron

    Said that sure. But always implied that he had taken it that one step further, had made it better, had explained it better, had done something to improve it, and made it something only he could have brought us. In speaking about something, no we don't always give credit. But in writing, actually, especially in policy or important work, or scientific - citing the source for an idea or concept or process is absolutely expected.

    And yet, despite a word for word copy, as TA discovers, he doesn't.
     
  9. Lohan2008

    Lohan2008 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Xenu

    Flubbard even stole Xenu from Lovecraft; he couldnt even invent his own sci-fiction !!! :spacecraft:
     
  10. Human Again

    Human Again Silver Meritorious Patron


    Hello Wonderful Twin,

    I feel so close to you right now. I see Hubtoad the way you do. Someone who snatched innocent kids and hid them away in a "Trueman world". He built the sets and barriers with lies about the real world ( it's evil, full of SPs, everyone is PTS and they are confused and living in a fog etc) while he enjoyed the full variety of life thanks to the money we generated with our free work. He bought ships and sailed the world, he was wined and dined all over the world while we were eating beans and rice and being separated fom our loved ones for the "good of mankind." He fullfilled his ambitions and whims, exploring in Africa, archeological trips, puttingon congresseses and fanning his enormous ego and meglomania while we gave up our education, listed our dreams and life purposes as "fish" and slaved on for him.

    He sat, like an airtight filter, above our minds, leaking through what he saw fit to pass on to us, labeling it as Hubbard's wisdom, which we accepted with gratitude and without question "Let us not speculate how I came to rise above the bank..." He plagiarised without remorse, he twisted and edited, cut and paste with the intent to divert our natural loyaties to ourselves and ourfamilies to his manufactured and artificial cause.

    He was the very worst of men, and we could not see it, not because we were stupid or blind, but because of the filter of the world we had stepped into because we cared about our fellow man.

    We did not know that the man who preached about how to have a sane relationship had three ex wives, all of whom were abused by him in many ways. Children who were so suppressed (a real world term too) that they either had to push themselves out of his life to survive or who took their own life or were murdered on his order, or who lived within his "trueman" world trying to do good despite the restrictions they faced.

    Within 6 months of leaving the SO I was at filmschool. I never made it to Gold, for which I am fully grateful - but I had always had a secret desire to learn cine tech, which of course no one else was allowed to see - what a bastard. Joseph Cambell was probably my first "alternative source" for valuable views on how things were. And I love Robert McKee's Story seminar -oh joys!

    Since then, little by little guilty inch by guilty inch I read and discoevred other people's views. For fifteen years however, I was still so indoctrinated that wisdom had to come from someone else, that I could not hear my own truth, let alone speak it. I joined a business franchise because I had been brought up to need someone else saying, Yes that is how to do it. (And I figured I'd been running programs in franchises for all my adult life right?) When the franchise leaders became more and more money focussed and a league away from my own values I finally had to quit. I took on another franchise. Same thing happened, and still I had the pattern in my mind that the people at the top would be benevolent and care about me. (Ha! Blubbard never ever did care)
    Well, really the franchise of the church is the same - the guy at the top makes money the ones at the bottom work like slaves and the public are treated as well or as badly as there is pressure from above on the franchisors. Okay, after that experience no franchises.

    I had moved out from under Hubbard's "I am source" enough to say I wanted to run seminars. This took me fifteen years! But I still couldn't accept my own wisdom. I bought a licence with Bob Proctor. I'd run his material.

    It was okay, I had to add my own stuff to make it work for my clients. But all his promises about the business, all the marketing , material, all the support that the license purchased - poof! blew away int eh first breeze - Doh! Duped again. Another thirty thousand into someone else's pocket for a few repackaged words. :duh: And of course he was unreachable to discuss a refund, although he had been very charming during the sales process.

    Then I was introduced to an MLM.:melodramatic: Needless to say it took 3 years to extricate myself from the false promises, ongoing costs etc.

    "I speak my own truth...I speak my own truth..." It is my mantra that I am still working on living up to."

    The last time I paid someone for their authority was 2004. And today I am are careful as the worst cynic.

    The picture I have in my head of Hubbard is not the one we see in the orgs, it's the one of him with dirty scraggly hair and nails, sitting brokena nd disgusting on an old bed.

    Perhaps I should get some copies and blow them up giant sized and paste them as bill posters around the orgs. It might help someone else see the real man instead of the PR bullshit that "source" extruded.

    I usually have my attention in the real world now, and the wonderful knowledge given freely or for the price of a book or a course, with no strings attached and with an open invitation and encouragement to take what I have learned and extend the knowledge for the good of mankind. Sorting wheat from chaff is a joy, there is no compulsion to accept everything and if I still feel a little tense when questioning someone's claims- well at least I can do that now.
     
  11. Neo

    Neo Silver Meritorious Patron

    Except that Hubbard said he was Source. And he alone was Source.

    Neo
     
  12. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor


    I seem to recall that Hubbard supposedly spent some time in early days around the film community with some possible screen writing credits to his past. Given the liberties taken with his official bio I'm not sure how accurate that is. Nonetheless he certainly had close associates who were in the "biz" and opportunites to draw from their extensive experience.


    Mark A. Baker
     
  13. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor


    It never ceases to amaze me how many non-members of the Co$ seem to think that is somehow significant.


    Mark A. Baker
     
  14. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron



    It was significant to Hubbard, why wouldn't it be to his followers? And it absolutely was and is.
     
  15. Neo

    Neo Silver Meritorious Patron

    So, did Hubbard claim to be Source or not? It is irrelevant to me what you think is significant, or otherwise.

    Neo
     
  16. Human Again

    Human Again Silver Meritorious Patron

    The basic tennet that Hubbard gave out was that he was the SOURCE of all this information. From the perspective of someone who had no access to outside influences he goes out of his way to make it appear he was the sole source for wisdom. - Surely you don't deny this Fluffy? I mean he couldn't even quote Buddah without then claiming he WAS Buddah in an earlier life.

    When I discuss writing techniques it is not in a context where the others in a discussion or in a class could imagine I meant I had originated these concepts or techniques. In a Scn context it is ASSUMED that Hubbard orriginated anything he says. If not he would have to make it abundantly clear that it came from so and so, unlike a normal conversationalist. And look at the zillions of things he claimed as his that other came up with, Listing techniques, NOTS, my goodness I cannot even begin to list the purely Scientology things that he claimed that we have since heard other people say they came up with and he plaguerised. He misdirected people through the context and assumptions he knowingly set up and benefitted from directly. He is the biggest plagirist and squirrel we've ever known.

    Yeah, you have the right of it GL. His version was always the ultimate while everyone else was sadly less.
     
  17. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    Wow! :goodposting:

     
  18. Rae

    Rae Patron with Honors

    Dear Mo,

    You go girl..get angry..get it all out of your system..scream if you want, vomit..do whatever you can do to get it out.

    Hubbard stole from many people..and yes, he knew Joseph Campbell..in fact I'm just reading now "Sex and Rockets" by John Carter about John (Jack Parsons) and boy is it full of stuff about LRH and his relationship to John Parsons, Aleister Crowley and the whole bunch of Sci F writers and actors of that time. And what almost made me puke..in fact I did get sick to my stomach last night..was all the stuff Flubbard took from the black magical arts and turned it into what he calls "OT". He even used a lot of the same language for stuff...I believe there are many other threads about all this..but I totally identify with what you are saying about getting sick from the deception.

    I think it takes a long time to heal..and I want you to know I think you're awesome and if you ever need to...well..get in touch.

    Love,
    Rae
     
  19. AnonOrange

    AnonOrange Gold Meritorious Patron

    I hope this experience will help you avoid other such traps in your life. We learn by our mistakes and hope not to re-do them.

    Soon you'll be able to give your twin sister and crash course on the Hubbard scam. She will probably listen to you more than anybody else.

    You'll save her 5 years of time.
     
  20. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Oh, he certainly did. No reason to prattle on about it unless you believe it, though. :)


    Mark A. Baker