PLEASE ANSWER QUICKLY!! I WANT TO LEAVE!!

Veda

Sponsor
Hi again mrqazwaz. Once this derail ends, I hope you'll keep us updated on your situation.

In case you haven't seen it, here's a BBC program on Hubbard and Scientology, from 1999:

[video=youtube;-4HI3KYlFag]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4HI3KYlFag#t=2961[/video]
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
Fucking really?!!! Terril, you are a shameless predator using ESMB for evil - recruiting people for $cientology. Can't one person come here without you digging your cult claws into them? Trolling ESMB for raw meat should be against the rules here if it isn't already. With all due respect, this is bullshit. This isn't what ESMB should be used for. If Terril's actions are permissible then please close my account.



No way, you have the most complete lists of dox'd posted. Please don't leave. It doesn't end when scientology ends, it ends when the last scientologist auditor stops, when the last hubbard pusher quits, when the last scientology apologist reconsiders, when the last Sea Org member is given open access to all the knowledge available anywhere anyone feels like looking. But there is a lot out there and some of your posts have had a torrent of information already put together.
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
Quite clearly these critics didn't listen to or understand the speakers at the conference linked earlier. Those trapped Scientologists feel that they are literally giving up their eternity by leaving the Sea Org. This is apparently not real to these critics. It should be obvious to anyone that it is an easier thing to suggest somebody leaves a place where they are being abused than to disconnect from their entire belief system.

Terril, given that you do not personally profit from FZ stuff (no FSM commission - as you have previously mentioned) the idea that you are somehow an evil recruiter is abhorrent and wholly incorrect.

The idea that one has to either be fully in or fully out of Scientology is total BS. One can take it gradually and decide for oneself.

If anyone here can claim that their life is perfect, and that they know what is right for everyone else, and that everyone has to not do any sort of Scientology because it is ALL EVIL, is showing an inability to think clearly and to differentiate.

The beauty of ESMB is that it is not a closed group of like-minded people. It is not only pointless but dangerous to have a small group of self-reinforcing opinions. That is what the Co$ fosters. No dissent. By listening to other people's ideas one gets a fuller understanding, not a narrower understanding.


Can you explain to me how you know what those trapped scientologists feel? I can understand that they deserve to have all the knowledge out there available, but how can you say how anyone feels besides yourself?
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Terril don't clap LRH's bust

Does He Salute [STRIKE]Captain Robertson[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]Astar[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]LRH- I am not from this planet[/STRIKE] the galactic patrol on the planetary salvaging marching song found on the Freezone site ???

Ready????
Salute the galactic patrol !!!!!!

http://www.freezone.de/mp3/Astar_Track_16_GP_Marching_Song.mp3


[video=youtube_share;Pjw2A3QU8Qg]http://youtu.be/Pjw2A3QU8Qg[/video]

:lol::lol:
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Terril don't clap LRH's bust

Does He Salute [STRIKE]Captain Robertson[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]Astar[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]LRH- I am not from this planet[/STRIKE] the galactic patrol on the planetary salvaging marching song found on the Freezone site ???

Ready????
Salute the galactic patrol !!!!!!

http://www.freezone.de/mp3/Astar_Track_16_GP_Marching_Song.mp3


[video=youtube_share;Pjw2A3QU8Qg]http://youtu.be/Pjw2A3QU8Qg[/video]

:lol::lol:

He's a friend of mine and my husband's. He's pretty levelheaded and open to and interested in many non Scn belief sets.

When I met him, (in cyberspace) we were both on a forum that then was popular-a critical one re Scn. I was still in Cof $. He kept asking me to talk about the infamous pole running. He was and is very critical of CofS, and he has helped people leave it.




He's a friend of mine. Pretty levelheaded and interested in other (non Scn) belief sets. When I was on the
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Not for nothing but it seems to a fashion around here for some who have been out for some time to become jaded ( even hostile ) against the idea that a newbie or soon to be out might actually find comfort or security in leaving the cult for good knowing that there are options out here for them to try and get some 'wins and gains', the kind that kept them in scientology in the first place. This includes the idea that they can explore the subject or some semblance of scientology independently without the Miscavige run money grubbing cult organization running and ruining their lives.

Seems like some people forget how important those kind of things are to a scientologist who pissed off enough to say to themselves "enough!!" or is is just waking up enough to take the first and most important steps to leaving, or is in the process of working things out so they don't lose friends and loved ones. It's a big sense of loss for many to think they will never see a 'win' again. Discovering the fact that is a freedom of choice out in the world once one leaves is an important unexplored hope and I, for one, will never tell someone they are wrong for suggesting it as an choice, or for thinking about going to the FZ as an option.

We know the reality. Probably 95% of the people who leave scientology never go back to the org or the subject or practice. Some experiment with the FZ, many don't. For those who do, many change their mind because they see things like most of you want them to see. The fact is, they need to evolve out and each person does so at his own pace and on his own path and his own wishes, understanding and integrity.

All we can do is encourage people to read the facts that have been exposed, encourage them to read and listen to the stories of others, to think critically for themselves. To make their own way out.

I have a friend who has finally left Scientology. What made this person feel hope is that he/she can continue on with freedom of choice, without the insanity of the organization. This person does not know I am a critic -- yet. He/she thinks critics are nuts. I am just happy the person is out. It's a big step. All I can do is encourage as mentioned above. And continue to care about the person and hope, as I have for many years now, that he/she will come to see what many of us know here.

I learned a few years ago when a dear old friend I had not seen in many years came on ESMB and I recognized the person by something he posted. I contacted him and was shocked that he was trying to get a repayment so he could go pay a field auditor for sessions. I tried to talk him out of it but then I realized.. this is not helping him or our friendship. He needs to find out on his own. By the time he got that money, a year or so later ( lucky him.. one of the last to get $$ before the stopped), his interest in the FZ was still there but not as strong. I checked in now and then over all that time. Yes, he got some auditing. It was good but he learned too much about the subject as time went on. Perspective changed. He resolved his upsets in session as planned. He then moved on and away from the subject of scientology altogether. except he became a critic. Not loud and hostile. Just logical and earnest like many are here. I think that when Marty started looking and thinking outside the bubble, others like my friend did too.

So, for me, it's not my job to 'invalidate' wins or gains made in the past or tell people who believe that what they believe is a baldfaced lie, that gains and wins are all an illusion based upon lies. I believe people can figure things out on their own with accurate information, presented as a suggest thing to look at in an unforced manner.

I have seen many leave scientology with the hope of progressing on in and with it outside the organization and have found that few remained.

I think it's important to keep all this in mind when discussing options to a newbie on the cusp of leaving or one who just made the jump. I'd rather someone go to the FZ than stay in scientology ... any day. It's a route out, so to speak. Not for most but a choice if wanted.

I agree with this, and for the record I don't think that mentioning that the Bridge is available outside of the Co$ is necessarily "proselytizing". Yes, Terrill has a history on this board and has crossed the line with proselytizing in the past, but not in this thread. He mentioned it and didn't get all rah-rah about LRH or the FZ until people jumped on him for the mere mention of it.

I personally do not share Terrill's beliefs and would not want to have anything to do with the FZ. Also, I think any substantive discussion of FZ practices belongs in the Freezone/Indie topic area of the forum, but meanwhile I don't think it's fair to discuss banning someone for mentioning that the topic of Scientology exists outside of the Co$ to someone who is newly exited.

I certainly don't encourage mrqazwaz to get involved with it, but if he does I'm guessing it will be a temporary place to decompress from the Co$ mindfuck. Like it was for Marty and everyone else who dabbled in it. Hell, I think I've even RECOMMENDED Terrill and Helena to ESMB n00bs who wanted to leave the cult but were worried about their Bridge. I don't know (or particularly care) if any of them followed up.

Can we please stop :deadhorse: and get back to the OP before we scare mrqazwaz away! :prettyplease:
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Cool! Are you going to try that?

You're preying on people who are coming here asking for help to leave $cio. That's sheer blatant opportunistic exploitation for your $cio cultist mindfuck KSW. Lets modify the top page banner so people know what they are going to be subjected to. Here's a test run:

Ex Scientologist Message Board.
Meet other exes. Share your experiences. Reunite with old friends. Scientology recruitment center, the on-source place for moar Ron.
*Disclaimer: If you need help, are reaching out for blowing Scientology, the answer is obviously more cult ... sorry.

It takes a lot of courage coming here asking for help and input from strangers. The $cio mindset makes it even harder since Elcon's indoctrination runs counter to even being here. I can say from personal experience mustering the nerve to post is quite an experience and yes I did receive a pm upon arrival asking me to attend a FZ convention. That really fucked with my head because after all this is an Ex$cio board and I wanted to know the truth about Elcon, not more $cientology. Had I been a touch less resolute I probably would be posting "Ron's a genius, the tek is awesome" at every opportunity. Cringe.

It's a real disservice since this should be a place of safety to people wanting to leave $cientology and subjecting newbies to predatory cult recruiting doesn't help at all. It's actually very confusing and the raw meat salvage search has been going on here for years. To those of you who say more $cientology is the answer, it's perfectly acceptable targeting people for more Elcon cult, you've got a screw or two loose (no offense).
 
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Hey guys. I have a question. And by the way thank you so much for the support. :)
I am out now and have no intention of going back.
But I feel that I betrayed a lot of people in my ORG.. Some of you probably know what I am talking about?
Do you what is the best way to handle this? Because I feel like I just keep thinking about this.

Thank you.

Yup - you'll be thinking about it for some time. The really best way to handle that is get busy with your life. As you do so, you'll figure out that your "betrayal" wasn't that at all. But, honestly, you won't see it until you are actually getting busy on building your life again. Many people have probably offered advice on how to handle that, but I don't think much of it will really make sense until you are busily building the life you want again.
 

gbuck

oxymoron

A children's nursery rhyme:-}..................................................... mrqazwaz:-

Big opinions have little opinions,................................................ Can please help me??? I want to get out NOW,
Upon their backs to bite 'em,......................................................Is there any way to get out nicely?
And little opinions have lesser opinions,.....................................Without upsetting people? How?
And so on ad infinitum................................................................Please help.





should be ashamed of yourselves: my gran.

these points important as they are belong on another thread, show a bit of respect to mrqazwaz: mr q & a as was?























 
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He-man

Hero extraordinary
The idea that one has to either be fully in or fully out of Scientology is total BS. One can take it gradually and decide for oneself.

Key point for me would be, "Decide for oneself withouth having Terril preying around the corner with the Freezone goodiebag.

Not for nothing but it seems to a fashion around here for some who have been out for some time to become jaded ( even hostile ) against the idea that a newbie or soon to be out might actually find comfort or security in leaving the cult for good knowing that there are options out here for them to try and get some 'wins and gains', the kind that kept them in scientology in the first place. This includes the idea that they can explore the subject or some semblance of scientology independently without the Miscavige run money grubbing cult organization running and ruining their lives.

I really don't care about the Freezone or whatever tech's there are outside the CoS, I don't mind techies.

I do mind Terril pushing the Freezone so obviously on someone who is just about to or has left. It is not the first time, it won't be the last time and I agree with FBM, it is predatory. Can you not see that?

As I see it he is not doing to help, he is doing it to recruit, there is a wooooorld of difference there.

EDIT:

I'm not trying to create an acceptance of the idea that the FZ is a "staging post",this idea
has been stated by or supported by many critics and certainly did not originate from me. As it happens my observation is that the majority in the FZ retain a liking for the tech.

As for the nice manners etc, Emma made me do it. She delivered from
on high the ROC.:coolwink:

The only contact I've initiated is the post I made here.

I made a long post replying to you but it got lost in the interwebs. Sigh. Did it again and the laptop powered down. Doublesigh.
Here we go.
1. FZ as a staging point. Yes there are critics that believe this, no that doesn't mean that this is some kind of dogma that should be respected and you insist on bringing it up as such.
2. Nice manners are not a prerequisite for gaining acceptance. Having the cop on not to peddle and rather discuss and genuinely assist would be the major points for me.
3. As a side note, treating other with respect does not necessarily include being well mannered. But I believe all of that to be a pointless discussion, the way I see it FBM was not targeting you as a person, rather your questionable actions. IMHO
4. "The only contact I've initiated.." I am seriously not going to go archive digging. You've done this before in other posts, to other people, it is a long on going behavior and you know it.

Sorry if it became abrupt compressed message, I will remember to plug in the damn laptop next time I write long posts.
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
1. FZ as a staging point. Yes there are critics that believe this, no that doesn't mean that this is some kind of dogma that should be respected and you insist on bringing it up as such.

Pretty sure I've never brought this up before and I don't think its universally
true at all, though it is for some. Remember I've spent 15 years interacting
with FZers soknow them better than most here.

2. Nice manners are not a prerequisite for gaining acceptance. Having the cop on not to peddle and rather discuss and genuinely assist would be the major points for me.

Having the cop on? This aussie slang? Don't understand it.


4. "The only contact I've initiated.." I am seriously not going to go archive digging. You've done this before in other posts, to other people, it is a long on going behavior and you know it.

I was referring to this thread. Yes I have done similar before.

Sorry if it became abrupt compressed message, I will remember to plug in the damn laptop next time I write long posts.

Seems I don't have a monopoly on good manners.:coolwink:
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
Pretty sure I've never brought this up before and I don't think its universally
true at all, though it is for some. Remember I've spent 15 years interacting
with FZers soknow them better than most here.

You insist on it in this thread. Past tense, I have a slight memory of something similar in 2010-11 but like I said, I won't go archive digging as that was not what I was referring to.

Having the cop on? This aussie slang? Don't understand it.

Irish - Understanding; having the knowledge to;Realize:
"Cop on to yerself ya Gowl!" "Cop on, she's into you." "I did not have the cop on to stop drinking and ended up in the gutter."

Seems I don't have a monopoly on good manners.:coolwink:

I'm not good mannered at all. I just happen to value good written language. You should hear me when me and the wife has an argument. I learn too much. The Irish shure knows how to curse one down like.
 

Lesolee (Sith Lord)

Patron Meritorious
You're probably not strong enough to do this yet,but if and when you are you could get in touch with those individuals you wish to and tell them how free you are now, and offer to help them if they wish to leave. Also tell them they can do all the Scn they wish in the FZ without all the pressure and nonsense.

I don't think anyone bothered to read Terril's post before slagging him off.

He is clearly not trying to recruit the OP, he is offering to help the OP get people out.

I think people are remembering old posts of Terril's and not reading what is actually there now.

COME UP TO PRESENT TIME.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
You're preying on people who are coming here asking for help to leave $cio. That's sheer blatant opportunistic exploitation for your $cio cultist mindfuck KSW. Lets modify the top page banner so people know what they are going to be subjected to. Here's a test run:

Ex Scientologist Message Board.
Meet other exes. Share your experiences. Reunite with old friends. Scientology recruitment center, the on-source place for moar Ron.
*Disclaimer: If you need help, are reaching out for blowing Scientology, the answer is obviously more cult ... sorry.

It takes a lot of courage coming here asking for help and input from strangers. The $cio mindset makes it even harder since Elcon's indoctrination runs counter to even being here. I can say from personal experience mustering the nerve to post is quite an experience and yes I did receive a pm upon arrival asking me to attend a FZ convention. That really fucked with my head because after all this is an Ex$cio board and I wanted to know the truth about Elcon, not more $cientology. Had I been a touch less resolute I probably would be posting "Ron's a genius, the tek is awesome" at every opportunity. Cringe.

It's a real disservice since this should be a place of safety to people wanting to leave $cientology and subjecting newbies to predatory cult recruiting doesn't help at all. It's actually very confusing and the raw meat salvage search has been going on here for years. To those of you who say more $cientology is the answer, it's perfectly acceptable targeting people for more Elcon cult, you've got a screw or two loose (no offense).

I don't think PM'ing unsolicited info about the FZ is ever OK, but in fairness to Terrill, every conversation in PM that we ever had was initiated by me.
 

Lesolee (Sith Lord)

Patron Meritorious
Can you explain to me how you know what those trapped scientologists feel? I can understand that they deserve to have all the knowledge out there available, but how can you say how anyone feels besides yourself?

That's a fair question. Let me say that the empirical evidence is that this is true for a lot of people. Consider this: people give up their children, their spouses, their freedom, their money and their time in order to do the Bridge. People do not do that lightly.

I would argue that the longer you have had the Bridge as your primary goal, the more you have invested in it, and the harder it is to give it up. That's an opinion of course. I would be unable to provide evidence for it, but that earlier linked 2010 conference had at least one of the speakers echoing this point explicitly.

For myself, when I got my repayment cheque ("check" for USA) I became so ill I was stuck in bed for a couple of days -- and I am not somebody who gets ill, ever. I had spent around 20 years and £90,000 to get to Grade IV so it was not any easy thing to miss the "best bits", Clear and OT. If these hadn't been available on the web then I would have probably spent my entire life wondering and suffering about the lost Bridge. I found the FZ (of the time) unsatisfactory since for every auditor or group you could find (rightly or wrongly) vast reams of entheta on the web.

As to whether or not it's all delusional and a "false high" (as, for example, Mystic proposes) I can't say. The important thing is that I've pretty much done it now at essentially zero cost - just a bit of time.

Do I think that die-hard staff members feel like me about their Bridge. Hell yes. Can I PROVE IT. Of course not.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
I don't think anyone bothered to read Terril's post before slagging him off.

He is clearly not trying to recruit the OP, he is offering to help the OP get people out.

Ok lets look at what Terril said.

You're probably not strong enough to do this yet,but if and when you are you could get in touch with those individuals you wish to and tell them how free you are now, and offer to help them if they wish to leave. Also tell them they can do all the Scn they wish in the FZ without all the pressure and nonsense.

He is not extending a hand to the OP to "help get people out" If I understand this correctly. He is asking the OP to inform others in the church of him leaving, and if they want to leave too, but want to be squirrels, they can be squirrels in the Freezone! Isn't that great? Yay! :happydance:

No, It's predatory, in my opinion, to promote the Freezone in this way. No offence meant to Terril or any other Freezoners but this is highly inappropriate, to prey on and communicate to people leaving the Church, in this way.

A less predatory post would be something like..

You're probably going through a turbulent time at the moment. but at some point you will most likely be able to contact friends still in the church. If so, you could tell them how free you are now, and offer to help them if they wish to leave.


I think people are remembering old posts of Terril's and not reading what is actually there now.

COME UP TO PRESENT TIME.

Really Lesolee?

COME UP TO PRESENT TIME

You see that for me comes across as you completely trying to invalidate anything and everything said in protest against Terril.

I am not in Present Time - You feel that I am being restimulated? Done some O/W's? Have the Bank running engrams making me not really up to pace with the world around me?

Yeah I probably shouldn't be listened to. See how easily I go in effect to your ad hominominos invalidation. Works like a clock doesn't it?

COME UP TO PRESENT TIME

LoL - What a load of completely useless tech lingo that doesn't even come close to describing anything that actually happens in reality. That's the "tech for ya.

Have a nice weekend Lesolee, Terril, FBM, MrQazwaz and everyone else. :thumbsup:
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Ok lets look at what Terril said.

No, It's predatory, in my opinion, to promote the Freezone in this way. No offence meant to Terril or any other Freezoners but this is highly inappropriate, to prey on and communicate to people leaving the Church, in this way.

I'ts pretty much common knowledge here that Scientologists do not
want to lose their "eternity". This is of course one of the reasons they
are afraid to be declared SP. Thus letting them know they don't have to
lose their "eternity" if they leave CO$ will help them to or even make it possible
for them to leave CO$.

Of course those who consider it a greater sin to mention there is an FZ
than leaving them to suffer in the CO$ have the option to not commit
that sin.
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'ts pretty much common knowledge here that Scientologists do not
want to lose their "eternity". This is of course one of the reasons they
are afraid to be declared SP. Thus letting them know they don't have to
lose their "eternity" if they leave CO$ will help them to or even make it possible
for them to leave CO$.

Of course those who consider it a greater sin to mention there is an FZ
than leaving them to suffer in the CO$ have the option to not commit
that sin.

They won't lose their eternity! That is the lie of the cult. Why would you further the lie rather then tell them the truth. hubbard's engram definition was something made up by him to create a problem that only he could solve. It's all bullshit that people have deluded themselves into believing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engram_(neuropsychology)
 
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