PLEASE ANSWER QUICKLY!! I WANT TO LEAVE!!
- Thread starter mrqazwaz
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Dean Blair
Silver Meritorious Patron
Congratulations on leaving! I was a staff member in the past both at class 5 orgs and at AOLA in the Sea Org. I wish I would have done what you have done much sooner than I did. You have my admiration sir.
When I was on staff early on, I complained to the ethics officer that I could not survive and support my family on the meager amount of money the org was paying me. The ethics officer had me read some bullshit policy letters written by El Ron and convinced me that it was my responsibility to work hard and raise the stats so that in the future all the staff would be paid well. I bought it and continued for twenty more years and never did it get better. Things only got worse. Scientologists lie and lie and lie. Hubbard after all was one of the biggest liars on the planet and all the Scientologists aspire to be like him.
Well done on getting out. Your future will be rewarded for it.
When I was on staff early on, I complained to the ethics officer that I could not survive and support my family on the meager amount of money the org was paying me. The ethics officer had me read some bullshit policy letters written by El Ron and convinced me that it was my responsibility to work hard and raise the stats so that in the future all the staff would be paid well. I bought it and continued for twenty more years and never did it get better. Things only got worse. Scientologists lie and lie and lie. Hubbard after all was one of the biggest liars on the planet and all the Scientologists aspire to be like him.
Well done on getting out. Your future will be rewarded for it.
David C Gibbons
Ex-Scientology Peon
Betrayal is something important to organized Scientology. If you find out more about Scientology, and realize that Scientology is not for you, Scientology maintains you have betrayed L.Ron Hubbard, Scientology, Miscavage, all other Scientologists, Mankind, and the Universe. (Have I missed anything?)
The problem is one of reciprocity and misrepresentation. IF L.Ron Hubbard, Miscavage, and Scientology itself were truly everything that the promotional materials said, removing one's support and participation would be questionable. If Hubbard, Miscavage, and Scientology felt any loyalty towards you, as an individual, as shown through consideration of what YOU wanted and needed (Not what you were told you needed by Scientology or its agents) one might pause to consider. However, Scientology's representations of itself are false, and allegiance given because of those false representations should be re-examined.
MANY here have found out through bitter experience that Hubbard, Miscavage, and Scientology betray constantly, without a second thought. Scientology destroys friendships, families, and lives without a second thought. It will not care for you, It will not protect you, except for rare circumstances where attacks on you might inconvenience Scientology. If Scientology finds it convenient, its agents will even use information from supposedly-confidential spiritual counseling records to attempt to harm or intimidate.
Please don't confuse real human feelings from individuals in Scientology with Scientology itself. These people are under the influence of Scientology, and will very likely turn against you if Scientology marks you as an enemy.
Don't let your feelings for individuals in Scientology keep you in or near Scientology. You become like the lifeguard who drowned trying to save a drowning person.Pray they get out themselves, instead.
Go0d luck to you.
The problem is one of reciprocity and misrepresentation. IF L.Ron Hubbard, Miscavage, and Scientology itself were truly everything that the promotional materials said, removing one's support and participation would be questionable. If Hubbard, Miscavage, and Scientology felt any loyalty towards you, as an individual, as shown through consideration of what YOU wanted and needed (Not what you were told you needed by Scientology or its agents) one might pause to consider. However, Scientology's representations of itself are false, and allegiance given because of those false representations should be re-examined.
MANY here have found out through bitter experience that Hubbard, Miscavage, and Scientology betray constantly, without a second thought. Scientology destroys friendships, families, and lives without a second thought. It will not care for you, It will not protect you, except for rare circumstances where attacks on you might inconvenience Scientology. If Scientology finds it convenient, its agents will even use information from supposedly-confidential spiritual counseling records to attempt to harm or intimidate.
Please don't confuse real human feelings from individuals in Scientology with Scientology itself. These people are under the influence of Scientology, and will very likely turn against you if Scientology marks you as an enemy.
Don't let your feelings for individuals in Scientology keep you in or near Scientology. You become like the lifeguard who drowned trying to save a drowning person.Pray they get out themselves, instead.
Go0d luck to you.
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
yeah...
and it's always been so puzzling as to how this continues. most of the people i knew weren't like that as people and the bulk of the ideas in both tech and policy run contrary to the horseshit that happens
and yet it persists...
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
He-man
Hero extraordinary
Google Scientology, the onion.
Just because you couldn't see what was there in front of you(policy, tech etc) doesn't mean it didn't happen. -_-
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
Hey guys. I have a question. And by the way thank you so much for the support.
I am out now and have no intention of going back.
But I feel that I betrayed a lot of people in my ORG.. Some of you probably know what I am talking about?
Do you what is the best way to handle this? Because I feel like I just keep thinking about this.
Thank you.
From another way of looking at it, you betray your friends in the org by continuing to be part of the scam which keeps them in slavery.
You help free them by letting them know that you decided it was all bullshit, telling them why, and inviting them to do the same.
gbuck
oxymoron
Terril park
Sponsor
Which of course is impossible here.
I once attended an FZ introductory meeting and there was an OSA
volunteer that passed on names of attendees. A couple were still
on CO$ lines,and they were asked by an E/O to leave.
Its an ill wind that blows nobody any good. [Shakespeare]
Veda
Sponsor
Hey guys. I have a question. And by the way thank you so much for the support.
I am out now and have no intention of going back.
But I feel that I betrayed a lot of people in my ORG.. Some of you probably know what I am talking about?
Do you what is the best way to handle this? Because I feel like I just keep thinking about this.
Thank you.
That feeling is temporary. You're helping them by leaving.
Sooner or later, the rest of them will leave also.
People have been leaving Scientology since its inception. Before that, people left Dianetics, some of the better remembered are J.A. Winter (who wrote the Introduction for 'DMSMH'), and John Campbell (who published the first article on Dianetics in his 'Astounding Science Fiction' magazine). They left in 1950 and 1951.
Then came the transition to Scientology, after Hubbard lost the rights to the name 'Dianetics', and decided to drive former business partner, supporter and benefactor, Don Purcell, bonkers by concocting - pretty much overnight - "Whole Track Maps," and then the book 'History of Man' ("This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last 60 trillion years.") And more left.
Richard DeMille, who wrote some pieces now attributed to Hubbard, left around 1953. There were many others.
Around 1954, Hubbard, applying his "religion angle" announced that Scientology was a "Church," and more left.
In 1959, L. Ron Hubbard Jr. left.
Lots of people left in the early 1960s with the era of 'Security Checking', deciding that any group that insists that its members undergo metered interrogation, with such questions as "Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard?" was not for them.
By 1965, Hubbard wrote 'Keeping Scientology Working', invented the SP Doctrine and SP Declares, Disconnection, the Fair Game Law, and the very confidential, "deadly serious," and vital to your survival, history of the universe&your mind, and starting calling himself 'Source', and many more people left.
In 1967 came the Sea Org and Xenu, and more left.
By the late 1960s and early 1970s, the Commodore and his ashtray-carrying 13 year old girl servants were a law unto themselves on the 'Flagship', the "safest and sanest place in the universe," and more left.
John McMaster, 'The World's First Real Clear' and the 'Pope' of Scientology, left.
Writer William Burroughs came along, was involved briefly, did the Clearing Course then, upon completion, when asked if he wished to sign up for OT2, said, "No thanks," and left.
Many others left.
Then came the RPF and the RPF's RPF, and more left.
By early 1977, Hubbard had written his "LSD, Years after they had Come of off' HCOB, in which he described people who had ever taken LSD as "zombies," and soon after told them that they were required to wear rubber suits and run around for hours, and more left. (The rubber suits were soon replaced with the more appealing and marketable Purification Rundown.)
During July 1977 came the FBI raids, and two years later came the court-ordered release of thousands of pages of secret Scientology documents, revealing much of Hubbard's secret spying and covert attack tech, and even more left.
Then Hubbard decided that almost everyone was "Clear" and needed to exit Missions (which he was in the early stage of looting), and go "up lines" and spend their money there; and, while in hiding from (real or imagined) subpoena servers, Hubbard even wrote a "Common Sense Moral Code" - making him an authority on "morality" - that advised, amongst other things, against being sexually promiscuous so as to avoid having "ground glass in the soup," and more people left. (And soup consumption amongst Scientologists dropped.
)This was followed, a few years later, by Hubbard responding to the Mission Holders Meeting of late 1981 by sending his #1 henchman, David Miscavige, to "handle" the next Mission Holders meeting of late 1982, and more left.
Then, roughly around that time, came the partial unearthing of Hubbard's past by way of the "Shannon documents," obtained through the Freedom of Information act (by a curious non-Scientologist), and more left.
By July 1984, there was Gerry Armstrong vs. Church of Scientology, and the further unearthing of Hubbard's past, and even more left.
Then came books like 'Messiah or Madman?' and 'Barefaced Messiah', and many more left.
Then came the Internet, and even more books, and Message Boards and Blogs and YouTube, and more left.
And, now, you have left.
Welcome.
Terril park
Sponsor
Knowing their can be Scn after CO$ can help people decide to leave.
Its part of the critics bible that the FZ is a staging post for leaving Scn.
Or don't you believe that?
I'm not digging claws into anyone, just letting someone know something
he/she may not be aware of. What they do with that info is up to them.
"Terril, you are a shameless predator using ESMB for evil "
Get the log out of your eye before examining any motes in mine.
That violates this rule of conduct:-
"Treat others with respect"
Dean Blair
Silver Meritorious Patron
That feeling is temporary. You're helping them by leaving.
Sooner or later, the rest of them will leave also.
People have been leaving Scientology since its inception. Before that, people left Dianetics, some of the better remembered are J.A. Winter (who wrote the Introduction for 'DMSMH'), and John Campbell (who published the first article on Dianetics in his 'Astounding Science Fiction' magazine). They left in 1950 and 1951.
Then came the transition to Scientology, after Hubbard lost the rights to the name 'Dianetics', and decided to drive former business partner, supporter and benefactor, Don Purcell, bonkers by concocting - pretty much overnight - "Whole Track Maps," and then the book 'History of Man' ("This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last 60 trillion years.") And more left.
Richard DeMille, who wrote some pieces now attributed to Hubbard, left around 1953. There were many others.
Around 1954, Hubbard, applying his "religion angle" announced that Scientology was a "Church," and more left.
In 1959, L. Ron Hubbard Jr. left.
Lots of people left in the early 1960s with the era of 'Security Checking', deciding that any group that insists that its members undergo metered interrogation, with such questions as "Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard?" was not for them.
By 1965, Hubbard wrote 'Keeping Scientology Working', invented the SP Doctrine and SP Declares, Disconnection, the Fair Game Law, and the very confidential, "deadly serious," and vital to your survival, history of the universe&your mind, and starting calling himself 'Source', and many more people left.
In 1967 came the Sea Org and Xenu, and more left.
By the late 1960s and early 1970s, the Commodore and his ashtray-carrying 13 year old girl servants were a law unto themselves on the 'Flagship', the "safest and sanest place in the universe," and more left.
John McMaster, 'The World's First Real Clear' and the 'Pope' of Scientology, left.
Writer William Burroughs came along, was involved briefly, did the Clearing Course then, upon completion, when asked if he wished to sign up for OT2, said, "No thanks," and left.
Many others left.
Then came the RPF and the RPF's RPF, and more left.
By early 1977, Hubbard had written his "LSD, Years after they had Come of off' HCOB, in which he described people who had ever taken LSD as "zombies," and soon after told them that they were required to wear rubber suits and run around for hours, and more left. (The rubber suits were soon replaced with the more appealing and marketable Purification Rundown.)
During July 1977 came the FBI raids, and two years later came the court-ordered release of thousands of pages of secret Scientology documents, revealing much of Hubbard's secret spying and covert attack tech, and even more left.
Then Hubbard decided that almost everyone was "Clear" and needed to exit Missions (which he was in the early stage of looting), and go "up lines" and spend their money there; and, while in hiding from (real or imagined) subpoena servers, Hubbard even wrote a "Common Sense Moral Code" - making him an authority on "morality" - that advised, amongst other things, against being sexually promiscuous so as to avoid having "ground glass in the soup," and more people left. (And soup consumption amongst Scientologists dropped.
This was followed, a few years later, by Hubbard responding to the Mission Holders Meeting of late 1981 by sending his #1 henchman, David Miscavige, to "handle" the next Mission Holders meeting of late 1982, and more left.
Then, roughly around that time, came the partial unearthing of Hubbard's past by way of the "Shannon documents," obtained through the Freedom of Information act (by a curious non-Scientologist), and more left.
By July 1984, there was Gerry Armstrong vs. Church of Scientology, and the further unearthing of Hubbard's past, and even more left.
Then came books like 'Messiah or Madman?' and 'Barefaced Messiah', and many more left.
Then came the Internet, and even more books, and Message Boards and Blogs and YouTube, and more left.
And, now, you have left.
Welcome.
Your dissertation above is brilliant and enlightening. Thank you.
As an ex-cult member of another denomination I'd also implore exes to read up on the toxic personality type known as "malignant narcissist" and then closely examine the cult founders words actions claims and deeds from numerous sources. Draw your own conclusions and exercise your true freedom, the freedom to call it the way it is.
He-man
Hero extraordinary
I wasn't aware there was a critics bible one must adhere to. Good thing I didn't and won't.
EDIT1: You are trying to create an acceptance to the idea that the FZ is a "staging post" so it would be "OK" for you to go on peddling your "tech" without people objecting to it. I can finally see that now. God I've been such an eejit. I have to admit using nice manners and the proper English form to give you a good looking image really does work well on me.
Funny thing, I can clearly see how you were doing excactly that.
With all due respect Terril. Let me use satire to make my point:
EDIT2: "Treat others with respect" - Would for me also imply that you don't go peddling Scientology to one who is about to or just did leave the Church of Scientology. For me "Treat others with respect" would imply that you let the other part do the thinking for himself on the subject and initiate contact when and if he or she asks for it.
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Free Being Me
Crusader
At one time Terril, you used ESMB as a public relations platform promoting $cientology with your "wins" thread. That was brought to an end and rightfully so. Preying on people who come here asking for advice that want help leaving $cientology is disgusting. Trading one cult setting for another isn't "help" so please don't try bullshitting me with your $cio "handling" and badly quoted bible scripture for moral high ground that what you're doing is critic pre-approved canon. I didn't know there was one. LOL. There isn't. All that proves is that you've managed to convince some of the more gullible critics to do your work for you accepting & recommending $cientology.
Yes, you are a shameless predator using ESMB for $cio recruitment. I've called a spade a spade. Please feel free to report both my posts. I will not sit by passively silent while you hunt for recruits, especially when people come for help wanting to leave $cientology. The disrespect is your ambulance chasing perverting an Ex$cio board for your cultist schemes.
Terril park
Sponsor
I'm not trying to create an acceptance of the idea that the FZ is a "staging post",this idea
has been stated by or supported by many critics and certainly did not originate from me. As it happens my observation is that the majority in the FZ retain a liking for the tech.
As for the nice manners etc, Emma made me do it. She delivered from
on high the ROC.
Funny thing, I can clearly see how you were doing excactly that.
With all due respect Terril. Let me use satire to make my point:
EDIT2: "Treat others with respect" - Would for me also imply that you don't go peddling Scientology to one who is about to or just did leave the Church of Scientology. For me "Treat others with respect" would imply that you let the other part do the thinking for himself on the subject and initiate contact when and if he or she asks for it.
The only contact I've initiated is the post I made here.
Terril park
Sponsor
The person wanted help leaving CO$ which is not synonymous with Scn. I even
suggested he help others leave CO$.
strativarius
Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I've noticed lately there seems to be a trend towards differentiating between 'The Church of Scientology'= Miscavige, and Scn = FZ/'Tech'. Like one is good and the other bad.
Maybe it's been going on a long while, I haven't been around ESMB that long so I can't tell. What I do know is that one of them is controlled by a vicious, power-mad and avaricious tyrant, and the other is a bunch of pseudo-scientific gobbledegook purporting to be a 'Science of the Mind', and support for neither of these should have any place in this forum IMHO.
Maybe it's been going on a long while, I haven't been around ESMB that long so I can't tell. What I do know is that one of them is controlled by a vicious, power-mad and avaricious tyrant, and the other is a bunch of pseudo-scientific gobbledegook purporting to be a 'Science of the Mind', and support for neither of these should have any place in this forum IMHO.
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Free Being Me
Crusader
Oh please, that's laughably not true ... $cio's adhere to Elcon in or out of the cherch .. lol. You bluntly stated to the O.P., "Also tell them they can do all the Scn they wish in the FZ." That's recruiting. You know it is, you've stated in the past you're here to promote $cientology, it's your self professed "hat." Passing off the fib that what you're doing is "critic approved" is very telling. I don't recall signing off on the check sheet for that one. LOL. Recruiting is predatory in nature and the basis for KSW. Guess what, the whole point is NOT to keep $cientology working. Please, respectfully leave people alone that are coming here for help wanting to leave the cult. You really aren't helping at all.
Talking about Elcon & $cientology is one matter, cult recruitment is another entirely and in case you haven't guessed it's not being met with universal approval. And you might as well give up trying to "handle" me over this little p.r. flap, it won't work. So, let's resume the O.P. topic now that that's settled.
Lone Star
Crusader
I thought it was against the rules too, and called that Mearvk troll on it last night. But I had to retract, or strike it out because after going over the rules again I didn't see one against proselytizing Scientology, or any other "religion" or practice for that matter.
So, as Bill Clinton would say, (biting lower lip) I feel your pain.
Lone Star
Crusader
It's been going on for a long time. Lately there's been a resurgence. A big resurgence at that.
It's a resurgent summer. I'm contacting John McCain for some tips on deploying a surge to combat this "uprising". LOL....
