PLEASE ANSWER QUICKLY!! I WANT TO LEAVE!!

[Free Being Me]

I thought it was against the rules too, and called that Mearvk troll on it last night. But I had to retract, or strike it out because after going over the rules again I didn't see one against proselytizing Scientology, or any other "religion" or practice for that matter.

So, as Bill Clinton would say, (biting lower lip) I feel your pain.

Thanks Deacon and others who have spoken up. Unless I'm misreading this quote, active $cio recruitment of people trying to leave the cult or have left, is definitely frowned upon. I do stand by my posts and if I'm awarded some form of ban for protesting Terril's $cio cult recruitment activities here then I don't belong here anyway.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?3-Frequently-asked-questions
It is likely that most people are happy where they sit in regards to Scientology. They have their minds made up about it and no amount of discussion will change that. This board is not meant to be a vehicle to plead your case, reconvert the fallen or preach your brand. It is designed to allow people to connect up, gain some understanding of our differences, learn to respect each others opinions and find some peace with it and hopefully within ourselves.

 

[Lone Star]

Thanks Deacon and others who have spoken up. Unless I'm misreading this quote, active $cio recruitment of people trying to leave the cult or have left, is definitely frowned upon. I do stand by my posts and if I'm awarded some form of ban for protesting Terril's $cio cult recruitment activities here then I don't belong here anyway.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?3-Frequently-asked-questions
It is likely that most people are happy where they sit in regards to Scientology. They have their minds made up about it and no amount of discussion will change that. This board is not meant to be a vehicle to plead your case, reconvert the fallen or preach your brand. It is designed to allow people to connect up, gain some understanding of our differences, learn to respect each others opinions and find some peace with it and hopefully within ourselves.

Ohhhhh.....I didn't look at the FAQ section. I thought I had read this before, but thought it was in the rules.

Oh I don't think you'll get banned, unless you do as I often do and start ad-homming the hell out of someone. LOL....

Even then it'll be a vacation type ban. I of course have run out of vacations I think. The next one will most likely be permanent.

 

[lotus]

The person wanted help leaving CO$ which is not synonymous with Scn. I even
suggested he help others leave CO$.

It seems to me that the ''unprecedented order of magnitude predatory nature'' of a well indoctrinated Ron's follower $cientologist (within or out the CO$)

makes you unable to understand a simple straight statement and decision like this one :



quote: mrqazwaz

''I can not take that we are treating LRH like a god. Celebrating him all the time. Clapping at him after everything we do.
I want to go back to school and get myself an education and live my life.''



What a freezoner, like Terril, can't duplicate in this ???
He wants to help her , in bringning her back again to the same cult\LRH tech she wants to leave !
(just with a little bit more UFO, Xenu, chanelling and entities mindfuck)



It's amazing!
What about helping in respecting one's need and wish!
but the pedlar predatory cult nature!
A $cientologist wants to help the way he wants to help with the LRH tech to save people!


''HELP''
in $cientology shall be read : Cult Trap

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

Knowing their can be Scn after CO$ can help people decide to leave.

Quite clearly these critics didn't listen to or understand the speakers at the conference linked earlier. Those trapped Scientologists feel that they are literally giving up their eternity by leaving the Sea Org. This is apparently not real to these critics. It should be obvious to anyone that it is an easier thing to suggest somebody leaves a place where they are being abused than to disconnect from their entire belief system.

Terril, given that you do not personally profit from FZ stuff (no FSM commission - as you have previously mentioned) the idea that you are somehow an evil recruiter is abhorrent and wholly incorrect.

The idea that one has to either be fully in or fully out of Scientology is total BS. One can take it gradually and decide for oneself.

If anyone here can claim that their life is perfect, and that they know what is right for everyone else, and that everyone has to not do any sort of Scientology because it is ALL EVIL, is showing an inability to think clearly and to differentiate.

The beauty of ESMB is that it is not a closed group of like-minded people. It is not only pointless but dangerous to have a small group of self-reinforcing opinions. That is what the Co$ fosters. No dissent. By listening to other people's ideas one gets a fuller understanding, not a narrower understanding.

 

[lotus]

The idea that one has to either be fully in or fully out of Scientology is total BS. One can take it gradually and decide for oneself.

The problem is

he\she already decided to ''fully''leave​

If anyone here can claim that their life is perfect, and that they know what is right for everyone else, and that everyone has to not do any sort of Scientology because it is ALL EVIL, is showing an inability to think clearly and to differentiate.

Irrelevant!

The beauty of ESMB is that it is not a closed group of like-minded people. It is not only pointless but dangerous to have a small group of self-reinforcing opinions. That is what the Co$ fosters. No dissent. By listening to other people's ideas one gets a fuller understanding, not a narrower understanding.

Not a question of opinions here

he\she wrote a post, expressing her decision
asking for specific help to leave

then, obivously, he\she shall be left alone with $camology

Isn't it obvious ​

Sorry, I yelled

 

[AnonyMary]

Not for nothing but it seems to a fashion around here for some who have been out for some time to become jaded ( even hostile ) against the idea that a newbie or soon to be out might actually find comfort or security in leaving the cult for good knowing that there are options out here for them to try and get some 'wins and gains', the kind that kept them in scientology in the first place. This includes the idea that they can explore the subject or some semblance of scientology independently without the Miscavige run money grubbing cult organization running and ruining their lives.

Seems like some people forget how important those kind of things are to a scientologist who pissed off enough to say to themselves "enough!!" or is is just waking up enough to take the first and most important steps to leaving, or is in the process of working things out so they don't lose friends and loved ones. It's a big sense of loss for many to think they will never see a 'win' again. Discovering the fact that is a freedom of choice out in the world once one leaves is an important unexplored hope and I, for one, will never tell someone they are wrong for suggesting it as an choice, or for thinking about going to the FZ as an option.

We know the reality. Probably 95% of the people who leave scientology never go back to the org or the subject or practice. Some experiment with the FZ, many don't. For those who do, many change their mind because they see things like most of you want them to see. The fact is, they need to evolve out and each person does so at his own pace and on his own path and his own wishes, understanding and integrity.

All we can do is encourage people to read the facts that have been exposed, encourage them to read and listen to the stories of others, to think critically for themselves. To make their own way out.

I have a friend who has finally left Scientology. What made this person feel hope is that he/she can continue on with freedom of choice, without the insanity of the organization. This person does not know I am a critic -- yet. He/she thinks critics are nuts. I am just happy the person is out. It's a big step. All I can do is encourage as mentioned above. And continue to care about the person and hope, as I have for many years now, that he/she will come to see what many of us know here.

I learned a few years ago when a dear old friend I had not seen in many years came on ESMB and I recognized the person by something he posted. I contacted him and was shocked that he was trying to get a repayment so he could go pay a field auditor for sessions. I tried to talk him out of it but then I realized.. this is not helping him or our friendship. He needs to find out on his own. By the time he got that money, a year or so later ( lucky him.. one of the last to get $$ before the stopped), his interest in the FZ was still there but not as strong. I checked in now and then over all that time. Yes, he got some auditing. It was good but he learned too much about the subject as time went on. Perspective changed. He resolved his upsets in session as planned. He then moved on and away from the subject of scientology altogether. except he became a critic. Not loud and hostile. Just logical and earnest like many are here. I think that when Marty started looking and thinking outside the bubble, others like my friend did too.

So, for me, it's not my job to 'invalidate' wins or gains made in the past or tell people who believe that what they believe is a baldfaced lie, that gains and wins are all an illusion based upon lies. I believe people can figure things out on their own with accurate information, presented as a suggest thing to look at in an unforced manner.

I have seen many leave scientology with the hope of progressing on in and with it outside the organization and have found that few remained.

I think it's important to keep all this in mind when discussing options to a newbie on the cusp of leaving or one who just made the jump. I'd rather someone go to the FZ than stay in scientology ... any day. It's a route out, so to speak. Not for most but a choice if wanted.

 

[AnonyMary]

The problem is

She already decided to ''fully''leave​

Irrelevant!




Not a question of opinions here

She wrote a post, expressing her decision
asking for specific help to leave

then, obivously, he shall be left alone with $camology

Isn't it obvious ​

Sorry, I yelled

Has SHE publicly stated she is a female? I don't recall seeing any gender mentioned in any of his or her posts. Perhaps I missed it?

Thanks

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

A very belated welcome mrqazwaz. If you are still in a foreign country and are at all concerned about the church of scientology international terrorist tactics of possibly stalking or following you I suggest you contact your Embassy and tell them your concerns. If not only for yourself but to also bring to the attention of your countries diplomats the human rights and other terror tactics that the church of scientology may be (most likely is right at this very minute and on an ongoing basis) to other individuals from your home country. Consider this, the so called chairman of the board David Miscavige himself is under a restraining order within his own country to not harrass or even approach a USA citizen. And in my opinion, the entire Sea Organization and it's individual members need to also be recognized as his cohorts and under the control of this despicable criminal and also be brought under similar restraint for the protection of society at large and individuals in it as may apply.

The founder of scientology, L Ron Hubbard was on the run from various governments and the law and eventually had to hide from them. David Miscavige thinks that he can continue to safepoint himself but I believe the day is coming very soon when he and those he has had deceived will all fall, be they politicians, legal professionals or the whole gamut all the way to and including OSA staff and volunteers. I can see the 11 senior scientology executives who were convicted and sent to prison circa 1979 will be soon dwarfed by the upcoming convictions of so called scientology whales and 'promoters'/FSMs. Whoever labeled scientology as an international criminal business masquerading as a religion sure hit the nail on the head.

In fact I have written to one country's diplomats alerting them of the aliens "on mission" entering their country, which we can be sure involves various unlawful actions, be it Coerced financial fraud or other extremely rampant anti-social scientology activities WHICH ARE PROMOTED and carried out, often across inter-state borders. Even a certain % of those criminally acquired funds are laundered internationally into scientology FSM's possession as well as it being availed of by David Miscavige himself.

Seems like you have done and are applying very well the concept of to thy own-self be true. Congratulations. More freedom and success to you mrqazwaz

 

[Tom of Helatrobus]

Hey guys. I have a question. And by the way thank you so much for the support.
I am out now and have no intention of going back.
But I feel that I betrayed a lot of people in my ORG.. Some of you probably know what I am talking about?
Do you what is the best way to handle this? Because I feel like I just keep thinking about this.

Thank you.

You would have cause to feel guilty if scientology was actually DOING SOMETHING to make the world a better place. Your former co workers have been deluded or have deluded themselves into believing scientology is doing something good in the world. I'm sure you recognize that the people in the org are genuine and honest about their belief in scientology and they are good people. Of course they will feel that you ran out on them in the grand struggle to clear the planet. In this case your former co workers' feelings are based on lies. For the time, it is unavoidable that they will feel betrayed.

Have some ice cream! Commit overts and TELL NO ONE!

 

[Terril park]

......
It is designed to allow people to connect up, gain some understanding of our differences, learn to respect each others opinions and find some peace with it and hopefully within ourselves.

Cool! Are you going to try that?

 

[Terril park]

''I can not take that we are treating LRH like a god. Celebrating him all the time. Clapping at him after everything we do.
I want to go back to school and get myself an education and live my life.''[/U][/COLOR]

I don't treat LRH as a god. I don't celebrate him. I don't clap him or his bust.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Terril park]

Quite clearly these critics didn't listen to or understand the speakers at the conference linked earlier. Those trapped Scientologists feel that they are literally giving up their eternity by leaving the Sea Org. This is apparently not real to these critics. It should be obvious to anyone that it is an easier thing to suggest somebody leaves a place where they are being abused than to disconnect from their entire belief system.

Extremely well stated.

Terril, given that you do not personally profit from FZ stuff (no FSM commission - as you have previously mentioned) the idea that you are somehow an evil recruiter is abhorrent and wholly incorrect.

The idea that one has to either be fully in or fully out of Scientology is total BS. One can take it gradually and decide for oneself.

If anyone here can claim that their life is perfect, and that they know what is right for everyone else, and that everyone has to not do any sort of Scientology because it is ALL EVIL, is showing an inability to think clearly and to differentiate.

The beauty of ESMB is that it is not a closed group of like-minded people. It is not only pointless but dangerous to have a small group of self-reinforcing opinions. That is what the Co$ fosters. No dissent. By listening to other people's ideas one gets a fuller understanding, not a narrower understanding.

I agree.

 

[Veda]

-snip-

The beauty of ESMB is that it is not a closed group of like-minded people.

-snip-

I wholeheartedly agree.

IMO, that's not the problem. The problem is that Scientologists, regarding "homo saps" as being "at effect," see it as a benevolent act to manipulate those same "homo saps," and, with them still being "at effect," place them under Scientology's influence, in other words, place them at the effect of Scientology. The idea is that, eventually, these same "homo saps" will be brought to a higher level on the Hubbard Chart of Awareness Characteristics and, having become Scientologists and "homo novis," will no longer be at effect.

The booby prize in the mix is that, as one progresses more deeply into Scientology, one becomes even more the effect of Scientology, being taken over by Scientology-think, while seeing himself or herself as self-determined.

Thus it's hard to find people more at the effect of Scientology than "Clears" and "OTs."

In other words, the manipulation never ends.


As for using the FZ as a halfway house for encouraging others out of corporate Scientology, there's some truth to that idea.

But the person in question, T., doesn't quite do that.

Here's T's Commendation for his "...tireless efforts in bringing the Freezone and LRH technology to anon and the world... "

http://internationalfreezone.net/awards.shtml




The objective is to bring people in to Scientology - the Scientology FZ.


Here's an example of the devious and manipulative aspect of Scientology.


Excerpt from a 28 March 2010 post by Terril Park:

"You often claim that I and others use PR.

That scientologists are not able to discern anything.

You here blatently [sic] use black PR.

You describe the creed as 'sordid insincerity', 'Phony'.

As PR cover for its 'religion angle'.

That it's a bad thing leading others 'up the Scientology Bridge'.

So you don't subscribe to human rights?

The Creed expresses many points re human rights.

We could assume here that you and human rights are distant."​

Now, this seems to be a bit of an odd response, until one realizes that it's an application of Hubbard's instructions - from Ron's Journal '68 - for introverting and manipulating humanoids.

Excerpt from 'Ron's Journal 68' re. the manipulative use of the "human rights" "button":

"...And the general attack line is along the line of human rights; yes human rights...

Now I'll give you a clue on how this is handled, somebody comes up to you he's hostile - he's hostile to Scientology and he says to you and he says na na na Scientology and you say why are you against human rights and uh and if you know anything about human rights like the universal declaration of human rights, United Nations - that sort of thing you know if you know something about this subject you just follow it right straight up - in other words you don't defend Scientology, you just attack along this line of human rights, you see...

Tell him or her ...uh ...the hostile person the hostile press line uh...for instance a newspaper writes an article on how bad Scientology is - any Scientologist reading this should run right to that newspaper and demand: Why are you against human rights?...

Whereas an attack on Scientology is actually an attack on human rights - anyone making an attack on Scientology is an attack on human rights...

Each time Scientology is attacked, we build into society, if you do this, we'll build into society an actual stimulus response mechanism whereas an attack on Scientology is an attack on human rights."​

Not just honest disagreement, or differing views, but dishonest manipulation.

Scientology is sneaky.

 

[Terril park]

What a freezoner, like Terril, can't duplicate in this ???
He wants to help her , in bringning her back again to the same cult\LRH tech she wants to leave !
(just with a little bit more UFO, chanelling and entities mindfuck)



It's amazing!
No sens of helping respecting one's need and wish!
but the pedlar predatory cult nature!
A $cientologist wants to help the way he wants to help with the LRH tech to save people!


''HELP''
in $cientology shall be read : Cult Trap

Seems the beef is with the cult not the tech.

From the OP:-

"I got many personal wins from using Dianetics, and the people (especially the other staff members there) are very nice.
The reason of my decision to leave is that the church has started to try an control every personal aspect of my live."

The OP is in fact an excellent example of Marty's latest posts suggesting Scn is
not to be recomended.

 

[Terril park]

The booby prize in the mix is that, as one progresses more deeply into Scientology, one becomes even more the effect of Scientology, being taken over by Scientology-think, while seeing himself or herself as self-determined.

Thus it's hard to find people more at the effect of Scientology than "Clears" and "OTs."

In other words, the manipulation never ends.

Good points.

They apply to CO$ as a rule not FZers and independents as a rule.

 

[lotus]

AnonMary,

You might be right, I was under impression this person was a female.
After I quickly scanned the replies, I've read tom_booth replying & using ''she''
I may have been mistaken Mary (but that's not the heart of the problem, though)

But still

what he\she said is

''I want to go back to school and get myself an education and live my life.

Can you please help me??? I want to get out. And I want to get out NOW.''


I didn't see him\her asking to get some scientology out of the COS.

I stick to the fact it is not a question of opinions, some people (rarely) come here and ask for such connections, or independant processing, which is their choice, or their path. No problemo with me as they are adults and choose so!

When they don't ask for freezone services, but for help to leave such $cientology cult , clearly, they shall not be be offer another mindfuck, especially when they might be vulnerable and trying to get out.

With all respect due to you
It's beyond my understanding that people suffering about their involvement with $cientology, demanding help to leave, will be offered more $cientology..here, in a community they land, for finding support in doing so!


I don't interpret such a comment




''I have been trained in how to scare and really intimidate people who are against Scientology. Black PR, Dead Agent, Filming people, Yelling at people etc. And I have done things I wish I hadn't.
I want out!
-snip-
Also I found out that some of the tech is simply is not working. I get sick and have to get a useless PTS handling.''



as a reach for more $cientology
Can't be more clear to me - not reaching at all for more $cientology
unless I am blind and don't see it!



This is an irreconciable issue that some people may take as a general cruisade issue
instead of keeping in focus this particular person's needs, wishes, and demands.

I often stated I dislike rhetoric debates
and in this particular situation it's clear to me that this person want to go back to anormal life without the LRH mindfuck and sociopathy driving her\his life.

:wink2:

To mrqazwaz :

Keep on your goals, you did very good and you are on the path of enjoying your life.
Don't let anyone to entrap you in another Aliens version of the same $cientology cult. (unless you want to discover the chanelling, the galactic patrol, the Xenu stuff, the entities exorcising....)
Your doing good without LRH to regulate your thoughts and life!
Enjoy your family and friends + school!

 

[GreyLensman]

Are you former staff yourself?
What I would really like to know is who I need to tell in the church. if any? Or should I just not meet up? Block their phone numbers etc. This is why I need to find out exactly how I do it now.
Also there are some people in the church that I really like. And I basically feel shy. I don't know what is the best way to do it?

I am former staff.

Leave. Walk away, don't show up. Get in contact with family and friends and get away.

You can't say or do anything directly with Scientology to stay friends or be nice, it doesn't work that way. All you do is invite handling, of you to remain on staff, to your detriment. Nothing in official staff off routing does you any good at all, it's intended to restore you to other-determinedism and to have you realize you must stay on staff.

Forget the routing form, forget asking, forget personal integrity - they have shown none to you, really, and aren't owed anything.

Leave.

 

[Veda]

[video=youtube;DYGFOevVmHQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGFOevVmHQ[/video]
FZ Opinion Leader and Master of ceremonies at FZ Confernces​

Good points.

They apply to CO$ as a rule not FZers and independents as a rule.

Did you read what I wrote? I gave an example of you using manipulative tactics.

Marty just called the #1 FZ group, Ron's Orgs, a cult, and one that uses manipulation.

People cease being (any kind of) Scientologists because they don't wish to be associated with the manipulation that is interwoven into the doctrine of Scientology.

Are you paying attention?

 

[lotus]

Seems the beef is with the cult not the tech.

From the OP:-

"I got many personal wins from using Dianetics, and the people (especially the other staff members there) are very nice.
The reason of my decision to leave is that the church has started to try an control every personal aspect of my live."

The OP is in fact an excellent example of Marty's latest posts suggesting Scn is
not to be recomended.

Your post Terril
only shows that you behave as an opportunist
I'll try to get rid of the image that came in my mind!

 

[Terril park]

We know the reality. Probably 95% of the people who leave scientology never go back to the org or the subject or practice. Some experiment with the FZ, many don't. For those who do, many change their mind because they see things like most of you want them to see. The fact is, they need to evolve out and each person does so at his own pace and on his own path and his own wishes, understanding and integrity.

I do know that most who try the FZ stay somewhat interested. There is though it seems VERY many
more who no longer follow CO$. Even if still paying lipservice. They don't turn up for the events that
are the most important for "The future of Humanity" or whatever.

All we can do is encourage people to read the facts that have been exposed, encourage them to read and listen to the stories of others, to think critically for themselves. To make their own way out.

I have a friend who has finally left Scientology. What made this person feel hope is that he/she can continue on with freedom of choice, without the insanity of the organization. This person does not know I am a critic -- yet. He/she thinks critics are nuts. I am just happy the person is out. It's a big step. All I can do is encourage as mentioned above. And continue to care about the person and hope, as I have for many years now, that he/she will come to see what many of us know here.

I learned a few years ago when a dear old friend I had not seen in many years came on ESMB and I recognized the person by something he posted. I contacted him and was shocked that he was trying to get a repayment so he could go pay a field auditor for sessions. I tried to talk him out of it but then I realized.. this is not helping him or our friendship. He needs to find out on his own. By the time he got that money, a year or so later ( lucky him.. one of the last to get $$ before the stopped), his interest in the FZ was still there but not as strong. I checked in now and then over all that time. Yes, he got some auditing. It was good but he learned too much about the subject as time went on. Perspective changed. He resolved his upsets in session as planned. He then moved on and away from the subject of scientology altogether. except he became a critic. Not loud and hostile. Just logical and earnest like many are here. I think that when Marty started looking and thinking outside the bubble, others like my friend did too.

So, for me, it's not my job to 'invalidate' wins or gains made in the past or tell people who believe that what they believe is a baldfaced lie, that gains and wins are all an illusion based upon lies. I believe people can figure things out on their own with accurate information, presented as a suggest thing to look at in an unforced manner.

I have seen many leave scientology with the hope of progressing on in and with it outside the organization and have found that few remained.

I think it's important to keep all this in mind when discussing options to a newbie on the cusp of leaving or one who just made the jump. I'd rather someone go to the FZ than stay in scientology ... any day. It's a route out, so to speak. Not for most but a choice if wanted.

cool!