ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Please Help. I Need Information. Is Landmark Education a Cult?

Discussion in 'Scientology Front Groups and Alliances' started by pittny12, Mar 6, 2011.

  1. This is a fairly good article by a Journalist who did the "Forum"

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karin-badt/inside-the-landmark-forum_b_90028.html

    I think some of the techniques will seem familiar to many of you Exes...

    Landmark is large group and small group processing, and once you get high enough in the mastery or leadership courses, (by observing my friends who are "in") you work in small groups and have someone who acts as your personal coach, Auditor or CS.

    It's hierarchically structured, like Scientology, and the costs for services is progressively large, like Scientology. There is a LOT of manipulation and peer pressure, to join, to market and promote it, to recruit others, and to stay in.

    They use the button of helping others and creating a better community, just like Scientology does.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2012
  2. KissMyStats

    KissMyStats Patron with Honors

    My friend, who is ex-SO, went to a Landmark meeting once just to please her pushy friend. She didn't know what it was. She said they used a lot of terms
    oh so familiar to her from Scn. She said it was pretty weird to be sitting there and couldn't wait to hit the door. Don't know if it's a cult, but one cult was enough for her.
     
  3. Wayne Kerr

    Wayne Kerr New Member

    Landmark is like Amway for self-esteem. Interestingly the Australian Dept of Defence has used their services. Which is kind of ironic, as they do use that quasi-military 'tear you down and build you up again' approach which you are then supposed to feel grateful for.

    Landmark, like Anthony Robbins and those other self help gurus, specialise in making money out of vounteer labour. And once you've done one expensive course they pressure you to do another, and another. Sound familar?

    Check out this French doco on them.

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/landmark/landmark220.html

    And another thing. they make you sit on uncomfortable chairs in windowless rooms for hours on end. They also specialise in humiliating peope on stage about their personal problems, like Anthony Robbins.
     
  4. renegade

    renegade Silver Meritorious Patron

    Please check out Steve Hassan's web site.
    http://freedomofmind.com/

    If you go to the Information tab and type in Landmark, you will see a bunch of stuff on it. I hope this helps to get your friend back.

    This guy REALLY got me out for good! Reading his book "Combatting Cult Mind Control" was the best breakthrough moment in getting my self back.
     
  5. Django

    Django Patron

    So if I want to hit the can, I'm outa luck?
     
  6. rknighthawk@hotmail.com

    [email protected] New Member

    I have the same concern about a person who was my boyfriend but will no longer have anything to do with me unless I join Landmark. All the info out there is so conflicting. Were you able to find anything out personally? I too will share whatever I may discover.
     
  7. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Pittny12 isn't around here so much these days (that was a post from a couple years back). If I can get her a message for you I will.

    Also there's a couple of other threads on ESMB with regards to Landmark as well over here:

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...cientology-Light&highlight=Landmark+Education

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-Education-(est)&highlight=Landmark+Education

    The demand for you to join Landmark though as a condition of a relationship doesn't sound like a positive thing or something you should submit to imo.

    Here's some links to info about Landmark on Steve Hassan's "Freedom of Mind" site:
    http://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=120
     
  8. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Take it slow. Educate yourself on the program, both sides of the story. Try not to appear hostile or it will backfire. People doing this program become very emotionally overwhelmed at the start and then become fanatics... Try to find what your friend is getting from it so you can understand him/her better. Don't let yourself be cornered into attending. Just say it's not for you and for the person to respect your wishes. Don't try to reason with the person about why it's a cult and bad for people mentally. Keep an eye on the person's mental state. Most people cease involvement at some point and move on. Let us know how things go.

    Here are some additional links

    The Landmark Forum: 42 Hours, $500, 65 Breakdowns
    My lost weekend with the trademark happy, bathroom-break hating, slightly spooky inheritors of est.
    http://www.motherjones.com/media/2009/07/landmark-42-hours-500-65-breakdowns


    Wikileaks re-publishes 60 Minutes piece on est/Landmark cult leader Werner Erhard
    Xeni Jardin at 10:21 am Mon, Aug 31, 2009

    Update: On September 24, 2009, Boing Boing received a letter from an attorney representing Werner Erhard, which is now appended to this blog post.

    http://boingboing.net/2009/08/31/suppressed-60-minute.html

    You can see the transcript or download th show here
    http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Suppresse...andmark_cult_leader_Werner_Erhard,_3_Mar_1991
     
  9. rich

    rich Silver Meritorious Patron

    Warner Erhart was a scientologist. Landmark is squirrel scientology. They push buttons pretty hard, don't always flatten them. They are good at tearing you down, very sloppy about building you back up. I did landmark around '86. It's kinda scary. Most of the trainers have good intentions , but the tech is just haphazard. They have no written tech, it is all verbal.
     
  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    so are you saying scientology is true tech

    to "clear" a person"?
     
  11. rich

    rich Silver Meritorious Patron

    I am not clear and I have never clearted anyone , so I wouldn't know.
     
  12. rich

    rich Silver Meritorious Patron

    But I did bennifit from the est repair rundown that I did in the church.
     
  13. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    ok
     
  14. Operating DB

    Operating DB Truman Show Dropout

    After the sales pitch for Landmark was run on me I later did my own research by asking friends if they knew anyone who had done it and I also did an internet search on it. I am soooooooooooo glad I did. I saved myself tons of misery by backing out on doing Landmark. The only bad thing was I lost the 500 dollar deposit.

    Don't fall their sales pitch no matter how wonderful they make it sound and how inspired they get you to feel.
     
  15. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes, Landmark is a spin off of EST, Lifespring etc. She is distancing herself because she is getting sucked into it...they don't have disconnection or PTS/SP brainwashing....but it fucks people up in that it makes people really critical of others....because they are judged harshly as part of the "help" - so they start to not like people outside of it because they perceive them "not trying" hard enough. Most people do it for a while and leave....just keep loving them and be there for them when they exit because they will. No worries - they don't destroy like Scientology...most of the people that do this type of thing do get some value out of it and don't get harmed. It is very light compared to Scamonology!
     
  16. ExElronComm

    ExElronComm Patron

    I did Lifespring for a couple years in the early '80's. Had a lot of friends in it and EST. Heard about Landmark later. I consider them the gateway cults and usually refer to them as the Baby Cults. For myself and a few others I knew well; Lifespring was the gateway to the Cult of $cientology.

    People do generally pass through a Baby Cult fairly quickly and that's good news. The biggest issue I found was once all this cult crap was in my head I realized I can't unlearn or unknow it. It's always there and I managed it on an as needed basis. I can say I'm not much of a joiner any more and fairly particular about what I put in my head.

    I hope the situation worked out for Pittny12. Thanks to the internet there's hope others will realize the dangers of the Baby Cults ahead of time.
     
  17. RandomCat

    RandomCat Patron with Honors

  18. binderrdundaat

    binderrdundaat New Member

    Don't trust The Landmark Forum. After a long unexpected 3 hour meeting, that resulted in heavy, and I mean heavy, pressure to register for a $695 3 day conference so you can get the "Don't know what you don't know" in your life, and sail away into the blue horizon, they finally let me go; but only after I declared an exact date I would attend the conference. One of the rep's eyes widened when I told her I had a son, 24 yr old. "Bring Him!!" It all sounded good, and the process that's "All about YOU!" was interesting, but I knew I wasn't getting out of there if I didn't say, I felt a breakthrough. What's interesting about these groups is the urgency they convey, and the very real conviction they share, that you won't get anywhere in your life without joining their community, and "getting it" via the conferences. I did benefit from their message that evening. And they were all very nice people. But, I will pass.
     
  19. Francois Tremblay

    Francois Tremblay Patron with Honors

    Do not listen to the culties who are trying to defend on here. There are many testimonies about how LGATs ("large group awareness training") organizations operate and how they devastate lives. I have reproduced one of them here:
    https://francoistremblay.wordpress.com/2014/09/02/large-group-awareness-training-beware/

    LGATs do use thought reform techniques, they do ruin lives, and their "coaches" most definitely are not trained to perform the psychological work they are supposed to perform.
     
    Jenyfurrr and JustSheila like this.
  20. Donald Kean

    Donald Kean Patron

    1 did both courses. The Est and the Landmark. The Est was the superior course, Now doubt about that, I did it in LA in early times when still fresh and inexpensive. In the Landmark they do have a sense of helping you out to do more courses. I understand that Werner was ruined by a court case by his daughters who claimed they were molested as children. Later on, they apologized and said they had been misled into false memories by a New Zealand group who took that sort of thing all over the world.

    They kept on telling us in Landmark that the group is run by a bunch of friends and relatives, who agreed to run the show until Werner sorted things out. Things were sorted out, but publicly Werner received the kiss of death and the writing was on the wall. As a smart cookie he had people like Stephen Hawking and Richard Branson as friends, and friends like those don’t come easily. He easily moved from the public area into upper management and very successful at it.

    Of course, Scn was out to get him. How could Hubbard be compared to the dynamic Werner who had no health problems? He was not out to get them. I went to see him at a meeting, and he gave nothing but praise Scn. He did have a flair for what he was doing. He is what he is and I think conning may be par for the course in the mental game. I don’t know if he is retired now.

    Just lately I have been reading some books by Alan Watts and to my surprise I was doing an EST course all over again. Perhaps after Alan died his kids sold the book rights to Werner, for Werner didn’t steal, he knows, like every good businessman, to make a dollar you must spend a dollar. Alan is the original here and cannot be accused of ‘stealing’ from Scn. I don’t know if Ron had taken anything from Alan, if so he made a mess of explaining Zen. (Ah, so I now see it all, Mister Hubbard. That finger doesn’t point at moon - but point up ass!)

    Another thing is Alan, as an ex-priest of the Church of England, simply didn’t accept reincarnation in a direct way. Neither does Landmark. However, Est did, in a big way and I found Werner’s teachings as more complete in meaning. I’m now wondering if the ‘friends and relatives’ mean the relatives of Alan.