Please help me. Scientology is going to destroy my family.

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
If you do not want to be left with nothing (if you co-own your accounts and property--then start taking action sooner than later or you will go down the tubes iwth this loved one. Dont let this happen.

I hope that you can wake this person up but honestly --many have tried with loved ones and friends and most have failed. The scn's know excactly how to make you and your loved one feel like the best thing since sliced bread and THAT is the trap. Only problem is that it is all a lie. The moment you or he/she stop playing the game-you become enemy #1. ALSO once your loved one starts auditing-RUN! Because YOU will come up in auditing as a problem and then ethics will handle him/her to see that you are an enemy and do not want him/her to do well. Not only that but any intimate details that you share will become a written record that can be used against you.

So I say again-if you are not able to salvage this person soon--get your affairs in order, protect your assets without emotion and RUN--then start over.

I am sorry but this is the way it is. It happened to half or more of this board, including me.

PROTECT YOURSELF the moment you see that your efforts are not working-DO NOT trust a scn-ever.

Sad but very true. Getting a fanatic out of Scientology is a low-odds bet. And he is a fanatic - it doesn't take long at all for someone to become totally hooked. I've seen people join the Sea Org, signing a billion year contract, in as little as one week after walking into a church for the 1st time.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Okay, firstly, :welcome:

Secondly> "my love" "angst" "my love" "my love" :puke: Ok ok, him, her what-ever, but lordy alrighty, I'd be running away too after reading that! Come on now, drama is one thing.

Cult got its clutches in? Confront imho, gather relevant materials, talk to parents if need be, and get them totally informed.

Accept that you may already be too late. Some one has jumped in the toiletbowl of cult, all the good offered is what they were looking for and maybe what they haven't found in life... So lovey maybe wasn't happy with their life to start with eh?
Cult is after one thing in the long run, while offering illusions, that is the money-bottom line.
Print off everything you can that rationally explains the cult and its antics, leave it everywhere, give it to your friends, give it to your family, inform and inoculate asap imho.
:(
Sounds like you passed the point of heading it off tho....
:(
If so then you might consider some sort of sabotage to make cult not want them. (you never read this here)
Shout!
Kick up a fuss!

Good Lord if it was "My love, my love" I sure as hell wouldn't be wasting my time at all and moaning about it, grab 'em by the hand and go on a very long vacation or something. Mind you, if it was 'my love' I'd have payed attention in the first place and not let them near the fuckers. (dats me though)

If money is a big concern, fuck it too, cut your losses and run like hell imho. (oh yah not helpful, but its a preservation of mind thingy)

Yah, my take on it may suck, but its all I gots right now. Pay attention, good advice is sure to come, but you present a very diffiCULT senario.

Good luck to ya, and bless ya for caring enough about this person to ask for help, even if it is here.

:hug:

:cheers:
 
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Lohan2008

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ditto

Contact the parents. Tread lightly. Too much push will do the opposite of what you want. Work on the money angle, make it a talk about finances and being concerned, about doing what is right, financially. To start, keep the derogatory comments about the church out of it . See how the friend responds. Show lots of love and concern for finances, future stability financially.

Show lots of love and concern.
The "church" has lost 90% of it's members in the last 3 years.
There are at least 4 books written by former members about the abuse and use of slave labour.
Keep the lines of communication open with your loved one.
 

BSBuster

Patron
I am sorry but the 'show love and concern' and keep the lines of communication open technique MAY work in 1% of the cases and ONLY VERY early on. Once the person starts auditing-you are sunk.

The SHOCK factor is all that will have a chance in h*ll of working at the point when someone enters the bridge. What is the shock factor?

It is "Oh hi honey, how was your day?.....OK well I have moved out and I have taken what is mine and split the money we share 50/50 and opened my own account. I love you but you are heading down a dangerous road and you refuse to confront anything but what the COS tells you. I am not that stupid. Here are the websites you should check out if you have any balls or ever want to see me again, you will look. If you dont look at what is fact from thousands of ex scn's then you deserve everything that is about to happen to your life."
Then cry. Then leave and do not look back. If there is any hope to shake that person it will be at the moment of MAJOR threat of loss...of you.

If that doesnt do it--nothing will.

Oh and if you are asked to go into a room with him/her and the ethics officer--YOU are sunk.

Have a backbone-give him/her tough tough love and be totally prepared to walk out the door. This is the only thing that even remotel works with drug addicts. alcoholics among other addictions. In this case, we got addicted to 'love' and 'someone REALLY understanding us'....only problem is that you have entered the matrix.
 
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FoTi

Crusader
If your loved one gave more money to the CoS after agreeing not to, that is a broken agreement.....a betrayal after trust.....in Scientology it's called Treason in the Ethics conditions.

Is this loved one still interested in being married to you?
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi Scared One

I was the "loved one" in my family that got sucked in to Scientology. By the time anyone realized it, I was in too deep -- I wouldn't listen to any of them . . . I was the only enlightened one . . .I understood and it was my responsibility to continue with Scientology so I could save them from themselves.

It was a long 15 years for my hubby, who felt he'd lost me . . .and he did for a while.

I don't know what the answer is. In my case, every time someone criticized or hinted at criticism of Scientology it made me more defensive and I totally tuned them out. In fact I was getting to a point of doubt and my hubby said something critical of Scientology and I dug in for 2 more years.

If s/he ever expresses doubt DON'T nod wisely or say "I told you so" . . . just listen.

My hubby allowed me to participate, but held to his Christian beliefs. He would not move closer to the Org so I could be on staff, and didn't agree to money being spent that we didn't have (which of course I did behind his back . . . true "ethical" Scientologist that I was . . "greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics".)

He let me know he loved me an respected my spiritual choices . . .I put him through hell. . . but he was there for me when I finally figured it out, and he has never brought it up since or held it over me in in any way. You don't know how much I love him for that.

This is not going to be easy . . . I wish I had some good advice. . . .nothing would get through to me . . even the TIME article in 1991 (or whatever hear that was).

But I would say the most important thing is to let him/her know that you love them unconditionally. And if you can, make sure that money is put away where it can't be taken out. . . . we were totally broke when I finally woke up and we are still paying the price for that 20 years later. Certainly protect any money that you earn in an account s/he can't get to.

Good luck with this; my heart goes out to you.

:heartflower:

-TL
 

BSBuster

Patron
Hi Scared One

I was the "loved one" in my family that got sucked in to Scientology. By the time anyone realized it, I was in too deep -- I wouldn't listen to any of them . . . I was the only enlightened one . . .I understood and it was my responsibility to continue with Scientology so I could save them from themselves.

It was a long 15 years for my hubby, who felt he'd lost me . . .and he did for a while.

I don't know what the answer is. In my case, every time someone criticized or hinted at criticism of Scientology it made me more defensive and I totally tuned them out. In fact I was getting to a point of doubt and my hubby said something critical of Scientology and I dug in for 2 more years.

If s/he ever expresses doubt DON'T nod wisely or say "I told you so" . . . just listen.

My hubby allowed me to participate, but held to his Christian beliefs. He would not move closer to the Org so I could be on staff, and didn't agree to money being spent that we didn't have (which of course I did behind his back . . . true "ethical" Scientologist that I was . . "greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics".)

He let me know he loved me an respected my spiritual choices . . .I put him through hell. . . but he was there for me when I finally figured it out, and he has never brought it up since or held it over me in in any way. You don't know how much I love him for that.

This is not going to be easy . . . I wish I had some good advice. . . .nothing would get through to me . . even the TIME article in 1991 (or whatever hear that was).

But I would say the most important thing is to let him/her know that you love them unconditionally. And if you can, make sure that money is put away where it can't be taken out. . . . we were totally broke when I finally woke up and we are still paying the price for that 20 years later. Certainly protect any money that you earn in an account s/he can't get to.

Good luck with this; my heart goes out to you.

:heartflower:

-TL

Without trying to be judemental at all--it may very well be that your spouse's strong christain belief is the only reason he stayed--'for richer or poorer etc'--devout christains do not believe in divorce.

In my case-my spouse only had to put up with my cult behavior for a few years but I spent a lot of money and I cannot believe he stayed with me. He even went and got a passport he told me later and if things got much worse he told me (after I woke up) that he was going to take his money and leave--SMART man!

BUT thankfully auditing screwed me up badly enough and I realized on my own that something wasnt right-took a break and then thank all the gods-broke out in sweats while I went to the INTERNET to the BAD sites....like xenu.net and this one and WOKE UP IN ABOUT 2 hours flat.

SO do what tiger lily says and what I am telling you-protect what is yours-secure it-then be prepared to leave because there really is a small chance in h*ll that your words will have any impact at all.

I am sorry...
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
Without trying to be judemental at all--it may very well be that your spouse's strong christain belief is the only reason he stayed--'for richer or poorer etc'--devout christains do not believe in divorce.


:yes: Yes, you are 100% exactly right about that.

In my case-my spouse only had to put up with my cult behavior for a few years but I spent a lot of money and I cannot believe he stayed with me. He even went and got a passport he told me later and if things got much worse he told me (after I woke up) that he was going to take his money and leave--SMART man!

BUT thankfully auditing screwed me up badly enough and I realized on my own that something wasnt right-took a break and then thank all the gods-broke out in sweats while I went to the INTERNET to the BAD sites....like xenu.net and this one and WOKE UP IN ABOUT 2 hours flat.

SO do what tiger lily says and what I am telling you-protect what is yours-secure it-then be prepared to leave because there really is a small chance in h*ll that your words will have any impact at all.

I am sorry...

BSBuster -- it was the Internet for me too. . . .great tool! I woke up fast once I was willing to really look at it . . .and it was my own decision to look; would never have done that if someone had asked me to. . . .but it took months of reading to process it all.

Scared One, this is correct. Your words won't have any impact for a period of time. But I really believe love will in the long run. If you love this person, don't give up. I am so grateful to my hubby for not giving up on me.

I honestly think that the CofS is going to get shaken up badly in the next year or 2. . . and I think sooner rather than later. There's a lot more information out there than there was 20 years ago and it'll be pretty impossible to ignore it. I think there's hope.

Hang in there. Please do keep us posted.
 

haiqu

Patron Meritorious
Great thread.

"If you love someone, set them free. If they come back, they're yours; if they don't, hunt them down and kill them."
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Scared,

You have received much advice on this thread. Alot of it is usefull.

I would recommmend that you google "cognitive dissonace" as this is what you are running into.

A person who believes something will not hear anything to the contrary even when presented with evidence.

Your best bet is to not combat scientology. You will have to wait until someone from the church says or does something that causes the person to begin to rethink what they believe.

You will know because that is when you will hear a complaint about scientology from them.

At that point, the best you can do is to ask what happened but never say I told you so or that's what I have been trying to tell you.

You have to listen and let them work it out. you can ask them what they will do but to make suggestions can push them back to it.

As others have said, you may have already lost this person but if you want to stick it out, you can't argue against their beliefs, it only fortify's those beliefs.

I recommend reading Nancy Many's book, My Billion Year Contract, to understand what you are up against.

Good Luck
 

_brian

WogRevert
Hi and welcome Scared, glad you have found ESMB. There is such a wealth of information here and many caring and *experienced* people who as you are finding will give you as much advice as we can.

I truly hope you are able to choose and act on a plan that will prevent more stress than you are dealing with now or eventual heartache/break . Others have already covered many points of what is happening and how it will go.

The only thing I can say is that, no matter how much money you have, and if you are limited in how much you can make, they will hound you to just make $ *flows* towards your spiritual eternity because that will *open the flows for income*. Some of the money asked (pressured) for will be for feel good purposes with no tangible product.

Soon you will be maxing out credit cards, refinancing etc., giving much needed cash that should be going into savings for emergencies (and/or retirement), which then you will be paying interest% $ that will never pay off the loan principal. They will show up unannounced and not leave until they get something and it will be against your better judgment.

This kind of DEBT creating will weigh heavy on the relationship. A good percentage of relationships/marriages fail due to financial stress.

Next will come the *Time* factor, where the relationship will suffer again, things get hectic, people get neglected, you will end up spending $ in the org to try to resolve relationship upsets...it goes on...I believe you get the picture.

I wish you the best of all outcomes.

Brian
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Dear Scared One,

Your loved one (YLO) has obviously become convinced that the C of S path is the right path in life. Even if it only delivered 1/4 of what it promised, it probably would be worth all what they ask. But they don't. Convincing YLO of this, I fear, is impossible at this time. There is much in "the path to spiritual freedom" that feels like it should be possible; perhaps YLO has been hooked on this basis.

There are several "rational" arguments that you could use at this time; but I'm afraid they won't be of much use:

# Staff generally do not go up the bridge.

# They promise to put one "at cause" but this usually means working hard and long at menial jobs or putting them in sales positions---demanding they get money, etc, from the public or be penalized. They may promise a technical post but actually getting one is not all that likely.

# Having years of C of S staff experience on one's resume does not count much towards helping get a job somewhere else---or may even be detrimental.

# Working long hours does not stop the demands for ever more money to be turned over. The only EP of that process is impoverishment.

# And should YLO be exceptionally fortunate and make it up to the OT levels---the C of S bridge is useless after OT III.

The best you can do, at this point, is to begin by separating your finances. YLO may be willing to spend all their funds and even go into debt, but don't let them pull you down too.

Let YLO know that your own exchequer may not be used for this purpose and then make it impossible for YLO to spend your money or financially obligate you in any way.

Finally, if YLO should want out some day, let it be known that you'll be there to pick up the pieces---after their involvement with the C of S is through. But not before.

My loved one is a spouse, but we do not yet have children.

They don't just want YLO's (and your) money; they want YLO's time. It's pretty much impossible to lead a "normal" married life and keep a staff job; the hours in the latter are just too long. (Again, it probably would be worth it if they could make it all come true.) Unless it's a Scientology marriage, with both of you as staff members, but not only is that not the case here, I'm sure that has all been covered elsewhere.

I would suggest avoiding having children for the duration.

At some point, unless you're totally compliant with the Org's demands of you, they will ask YLO to choose between them and you. It would be better for you to ask YLO to choose first, letting it be known that you don't want to come in second.

If necessary, continue to be married but don't expect much from it.

If absolutely necessry, seek a divorce, and prepared to be declared an SP. (Like you care.)

You might not be able to protect your entire exchequer. But protect what you can, and like I said, you may be in a position to pick up the pieces after this thing has run it's course.

Helena
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
"handling" you

You are getting some very good advice here.

One thing I just thought of . . . . . you are going to be a target for "handling". First YLO will try to take care of it alone, ask you to read a book, ask you to come to the Org for a communication course or a personality test. . . .then someone from the Org will call you. My advice would be to not engage that. If you read a book and don't "cognite" that will be evidence of how low-toned/unaware/wog-ish you are, and if you go to the Org, or even talk to them on the phone, you will be subject to people who are trained and drilled in mental manipulation. They will railroad you into doing or saying something that can be used against you . . . (of course they will use it against you if you don't communicate with them at all too, but I still think this is the best option).

My hubby talked to at OTVII where I was. . . he was very straighforward with this OT and told him that he felt he had lost me, that I had changed. Of course the spin I got on it was that my hubby couldn't "have" my new-found spiritual awareness and was trying to hold me back, which of course I believed. . . .I started feeling like he didn't love me and it caused a bigger wedge in our marriage.

There is nothing you can do or say to get them to stop pulling in YLO . . . if you are silent, of course, that will mean you are aberrated and can't communicate. . . or you are covertly hostile or something, but at least you won't be giving them any ammunition.
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
It's not all doom and gloom. The Church of Scientology shrank by more than half in recent years. In the US they had 55,000 members in 2001 and just 25,000 by 2008, according to the ARIS survey. By now it might have halved again. More people are figuring out the con with each day that passes, and each additional escapee provides a warning to others.

Yes, it's still dangerous to individuals and upsetting for families that suffer disconnection, but you are not alone. It's possible to talk about the loony legacy of L Ron Hubbard now, like never before.

Also, the ridiculously high price of Scientology 'services' must act as something of a deterrent. The whole 'Bridge' really isn't something that an ordinary person can afford anymore. Equally, those who join cult staff aren't really getting 'free Bridge' anymore. They don't progress.

There's never been a better time to wake up and smell the con. Your loved one will, too... eventually.

In the meantime, Scientology may be best thought of as being like a drug addiction. Don't give or lend your loved one any money! Whatever they say it's for, it'll end up being sent uplines to Clearwater, FL. You wouldn't subsidize a family member's heroin habit... so lock your assets away where they're safe, and don't let them get wasted on Dianetics & Scientology.
 
Everyone, thanks for all of the advice! Again, I don't have time to get into individual replies, but I did utilize some of the information given and was able to convince my "loved one" that a donation is simply not rational…
"at this time." *Sigh*

However, I have a more pressing problem. Loved one is meeting with church members tonight to discuss this latest donation. I initially agreed to attend, but I simply can't sit there and talk to these people face to face like everything's okay when I know that they're really trying to manipulate my loved one out of more "donations."

I initially agreed because loved one wanted my support tonight, which, of course, sets off sirens in my head, because loved one recognizes (be it subconsciously or consciously) that they are being pressured.

If I attend, I will not be able to keep my cool around these people for hours. I told my loved one last night that these people are going to view me as a suppressive and try to turn you against me, and loved one said that is absurd. I told them to watch and see, and that it’s only a matter of time.

I don’t know if I planted the seed for an inevitable confrontation of destruction, or, HOPEFULLY, when that does happen, sirens will start going off in their head that exactly what I predicted is happening. Unfortunately, I think the tactics employed by the church a bit more pernicious and sophisticated then that, so it will be more of a slow and subtle manipulation.

Again, *sigh*, this is absolutely maddening. I can’t even focus on my work or anything else because of what this is doing to my head.

A few more personal details. Yes, I work and yes, I have an escape plan with some decent finances already set up. That's not the problem. I could care less about money, as I always manage to land on my feet. And unless my loved one donates our house to the church I legally own 50% of that.

What I care about is my loved one throwing away years of their life and being consumed by this cult because they honestly see them as the light. We moved away from loved one’s hometown a few years ago, and loved one’s friends basically cast them aside and loved one has felt awful about that since then, and has been seeking someway to replace those friendships.
Enter the Church of Scientology and all of its promises. That is why loved one is so consumed, they want to feel wanted and a life outside of just our relationship, which, of course, I could not agree more with. Obviously, though, this is not the way to go.

So, please help me… What do I do about tonight?
 

Sindy

Crusader
Everyone, thanks for all of the advice! Again, I don't have time to get into individual replies, but I did utilize some of the information given and was able to convince my "loved one" that a donation is simply not rational…
"at this time." *Sigh*

However, I have a more pressing problem. Loved one is meeting with church members tonight to discuss this latest donation. I initially agreed to attend, but I simply can't sit there and talk to these people face to face like everything's okay when I know that they're really trying to manipulate my loved one out of more "donations."

I initially agreed because loved one wanted my support tonight, which, of course, sets off sirens in my head, because loved one recognizes (be it subconsciously or consciously) that they are being pressured.

If I attend, I will not be able to keep my cool around these people for hours. I told my loved one last night that these people are going to view me as a suppressive and try to turn you against me, and loved one said that is absurd. I told them to watch and see, and that it’s only a matter of time.

I don’t know if I planted the seed for an inevitable confrontation of destruction, or, HOPEFULLY, when that does happen, sirens will start going off in their head that exactly what I predicted is happening. Unfortunately, I think the tactics employed by the church a bit more pernicious and sophisticated then that, so it will be more of a slow and subtle manipulation.

Again, *sigh*, this is absolutely maddening. I can’t even focus on my work or anything else because of what this is doing to my head.

A few more personal details. Yes, I work and yes, I have an escape plan with some decent finances already set up. That's not the problem. I could care less about money, as I always manage to land on my feet. And unless my loved one donates our house to the church I legally own 50% of that.

What I care about is my loved one throwing away years of their life and being consumed by this cult because they honestly see them as the light. We moved away from loved one’s hometown a few years ago, and loved one’s friends basically cast them aside and loved one has felt awful about that since then, and has been seeking someway to replace those friendships.
Enter the Church of Scientology and all of its promises. That is why loved one is so consumed, they want to feel wanted and a life outside of just our relationship, which, of course, I could not agree more with. Obviously, though, this is not the way to go.

So, please help me… What do I do about tonight?

That's a rough one.

I would say, you should be with YLO (thanks Tiger Lily for the abbreviation).

Talk over with YLO again your goals and how you have to agree on finances.

Say you would love to come and be supportive but would prefer that the meeting be away from the organization at an agreed upon place where YOU feel comfortable.

Tell YLO to tell the staff member(s) that you both are more than happy to listen to what they have to say but that you absolutely will not be making a decision tonight. Get the staff members agreement on this BEFORE the meeting.

Go be supportive, come back from the meeting and let that fervor die down within YLO for a few days (agreed to already) so that an impulsive decision isn't made.

Having said all that, of course, you are on the scene and know best.

My thoughts are that if you don't go, he's outnumbered and it is NOT easy to stand up to good Scientology sales techniques.

If you already have the agreed upon "wait period", you are the one that is in control.
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Tell him you want you and him to move back to his home town. If you have to do this to keep him out of this cult it will have been worth it despite the inconvenience.

Get him to read some of this board about others' experiences. Tell him he owes you that if only to assuage your own fears for him.

Show him the criminal activities. Paulette Cooper, the child in the chain locker, as well as events much closer to now so he can see it has always been the theme of the cult. Let him know of the ongoing FBI investigation. Let him know that what he "sees" and will be privy to see is "not" all that goes on in the Cof$. It will all be made to look like Sweetness and Light in order to hook him. I was over 35 years in. Many here were in for a long time and were the dedicated of the dedicated. We are not fly-by-night did-a-little-scn and now just yakking about it as the church would have you and loved one believe.

Some people here probably know people in your area that you and loved one could meet in person or even on the phone. Live communication would be good as well as loved one reading this board.

And I do hope loved one is flattered that you call him/her this!
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Go and ask them why a 'church' with over a billion$ in cash and assets needs more? :shrug: (ya ya, I know you don't want to go.)
What is this donation reg for anyhow? Any idea?
From what I've read over the years it will be SOP to make you look bad, an cheap SP who doesn't care about the planet etc., work to destroy your relationship to better facilitate the parting of money from your sweety. Unfortunately once the hooks are in the only one who can really spit them out is ultimately the victim.
Cult is a heartless demon that delivers more grief per $ than most anything I've ever seen.

My heart goes out to ya man :hug:

( I know it probably wouldn't work but I'd probably attempt somethng like "ya know dear, I think we can do something even better for the planet, something that will really help people right now, in real time, lets give a donation to Doctors Without Borders (or charity of choice) instead....") Try and make it understood that cult IS NOT A CHARITABLE ENTITY!

*sigh*
 
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