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Post Scn: Where to now?

Dennis

Patron
After 6years of reading, living and introspection post-scientology (having been born and raised in Scn), I have come to a point where I am consistently disillusioned of what life has to offer; am cynical about most people; and a complete pessimist when it comes to my own future.

After ridding myself of one false ideology; clearing my slate of the Scientology delusion, it seems, to me at least, I am confronted with more delusion to replace it with. The world I find seems to be build on one fabricated ideology after another that trap people just as much as Scientology. Our whole society seems to be built on the back of ideologies set down by our forefathers and we have no option but to live within them.

I recognise that I am being overly cynical, and many ideologies are not as harmful as Scientology. I also recognise there is a lot of enjoyment, fun, and loving relationships that can fill one's life, and I have had my share of all, it's just my cynicism, disillusionment, and pessimism consistently gets in the way.

My main concern at the moment is being able to support myself in a money hungry world (Why society pays so much credence to bits of paper - that in reality are worthless - is a bit beyond me). While I am very capable in performing duties, I find it difficult to give reason to working in a mindless job to earn bits of paper that in turn just greases the wheels of a messed up society.

Due to past circumstances I am without the skills, confidence, experience, and paper credentials to compete, nor do I have the desire to sell myself so I can sell some company's product that feeds human wants (as opposed to needs). Nor do I feel like putting on a facade of satisfaction or happiness that so many people seem to do to get through their day.

If this world was without the trappings of a messed up society, I would be happy to just 'be' (live, love, and die). But it seems I cannot. Aside from becoming a hermit, I have to interact with people and the world.

So where to next for me? No doubt some of you have tread these waters before. I would be grateful for your insight.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Welcome Dennis. Life is a lot better than you think.

In your case, I would think about extending your education, and look into studying something that really interests you. That way you can probably get more of those 'pieces of paper' by having a good time.

Do what you love to do. If you don't know what you love to do, do some experimenting and find out.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Sounds as though earning a living is the big problem. If you're not sure how you're going to make a living, man, the world sure does look like a harsh place. Everything's insecure. It's not really about the bits of paper; the point is you need to know how you're going to get food and shelter and other good things.

On the one hand there are farmers and doctors and carpenters and mechanics and so on, who clearly have valuable skills and are entitled to live pretty well in return for the great things they provide to other people. If you don't own any farmland, or know how to perform an appendectomy or replace a transmission, it's depressing to think that you're not going to be able to join that category of people.

On the other hand, though, are people who don't really seem to have any especially valuable skills or products to offer, but make a lot of money from sheer hustle, or from knowing the right people, or from some kind of pure illusion. They're maybe even more frustrating to see, because one has the feeling that they shouldn't by rights be any better off than oneself, but by gross injustice they are.

Since Scientology is illusion, a background in Scientology probably predisposes you to see mostly the illusionary second category of the real world economy. But in fact the first category is much bigger. I'd suggest trying to somehow get into that first category of workers, by acquiring some genuinely valuable skill, and applying it to help other people in return for fair recompense. If there was anything at all in your Scientology experience that retains value in the real world, you could try to build on that. Otherwise I'd suggest going back to school, or learning a trade. Once you have something of real value to offer other people, the world doesn't look nearly so bleak.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Dennis, you sound a great deal like me. I look around and tend to see LOTS that I find absurd, superficial, phony, false, ego-driven and overly materialistic.

The only thing I can suggest is to work a little harder at "noticing the good" out there. In people. In nature. It is actually all around you - you just don't see it, because you seem to focus (as I do at times) on all the crap.

Maybe find a job that provides some service for people - even if it is flipping burgers at McDonalds, cleaning carpets or fixing cars. Don't look at it from the abstract view of "feeding a crazy society", but look at it as assisting the person standing in front of you - a REAL LIVING HUMAN BEING.

When I got away from Scientology, I left ALL "ideology" behind. The world IS infected with it. Many people suffer from it. Just say NO, and don't participate with it in any form. The many mindless followers of ideology ARE a bane of Earth.

I have walked a fine line between "hermit" and interacting with the more unsavory aspects of society and the world. Create peace and harmony with all people you meet, and stay away from the rest of the nonsense as best you can.

Last, any values or purpose you have will be what you CHOOSE to have. "Purpose" and "meaning" are inside of you - not "out there". Choose carefully and choose well.

Welcome to ESMB. Stick around. This is ONE PLACE where you can find some honesty and sincerity (though you might not always agree with it).
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hi Dennis,
In the end those little pieces of paper are what buys you food, clothing and shelter....unless you build your own farmhouse, start a farm and can sew....and even then you will need little pieces of paper or at least a few pigs to trade.

When in the cult, the focus was on money and paying for a service and being hounded. It was like the mafia, truly. You had to pay the vig or suffer the
consequences, which were often just more hassle than abandoning all your own dreams and goals and just going after the money to shut them up and get them off your back.

You don't have this burden, so just relax into your life. Help your friends and neighbors, pursue your hobbies and interests. Eat well and exercise. Improve one thing in your life each day. Things will get better and better and more interesting for you.

Go to school....you will rub elbows with all kinds of interests and get an idea of what you may like to pursue. Then pursue it. You can always change your mind and pursue something else if you don't like it. Keep going forward.

Just don't sit on the sidelines and feel sorry for yourself. That would be a waste and you'll make for bad company. Life doesn't necessarily "offer" you anything. It's your perspective that matters. You're young....just take one day at a time.... solve the things you can personally solve. Make some short term goals and achieve them. Keep doing that and before you know it you'll be up running and the world won't be so depressing to you. You're in it (with the rest of us!) so you might as well make the best of it! I'm sure you'll do great!
 

Coyote13

Thought Criminal
In my experience, being raised in scientology corrupts ones ability to effectively evaluate ones experiences and information gathered in life. The way we think about our feelings for instance, rather than them just being emotions and ok to have( there are no bad emotions, only not so good ways they are expressed/dealt with), they are labelled, with emotions indicating a problem or issue going on being undesirable( and an indicator that something is wrong with the person as opposed to maybe something in their life that is not right and needs to be addressed). The way we think about others, such as valing them based on what they can offer you or those connected to you, rather than valuing them as a human being, regardless of their economic/social/"religious" standing. The Idea that if you are having a diificult time in life, you are a danger to others and put them at risk(instead of realizing thats exatly what friends and family are supposed to be, at least in many peoples eyes, "a burden shared is halved, and a joy shared is doubled"). There's hella more to list, but the point is that scientology creates some seriously hella flawed logic in ones thinking.

In my experience, growing up in scientology, those were the types of messages I recieved( among hella others). It wasn't just how I was treated, but the way others were treated routinely as well, whether spoken or not, you learn whats what, and whats expected and the consequences, either through personal experience or seeing it happen to others.

When I quit having anything to do with scientology, the "messages" I heard growing up still played in my head/heart. They were pretty fucked up messages full of how I would fail and would never make it in the world among all the crazies and degraded beings and there was no point in living in a world like that. I had very little real world experience at that point, most of my experience had been with scientology and scientologists and such who reinforced this flawed view of the world.

What helped change, and is helping to continue to change that, is to work on those "messages" that still play( even after all these years). For me, changing those messages requires talking about my feelings and whats going on, and recognizing the flaws in the thinking and replacing it with a more positive message. Basically, drowning out the old messages with new messages that more accurately reflect the real world and a more healthy idea of how things can be. Like if I have a problem and need help, it's ok to ask for help. It doesn't mean I need to get handled and figure my shit so I can be acceptable to others. Having problems/difficulties in life does not equal you being fucked.

For me, I also had/have to realize there are many ways to ones goals, not just one, and no one person has a monopoly on the truth. I had to open my eyes so to speak, to be willing to se that things werent the way I had learned/grew up with. I had to realize that, maybe some of the stuff had truth to it, but it was exageration, using a small part of the truth to represent the whole truth, and that not everyone behaved that way. I had to recognize the parts of the indoctrination that I still held onto and I still judged myself by.

All in all, its replacing the mssages, and being open to experiences that show me the world in other ways than what I was raised to believe( while trying to find the fine line of caution, once( or hella times) bitten, twice( or hella ) shy. I have to remind myself of these things all the time. Compassion and empathy have been hella important, for me to have for others, but also, just as importantly, to have for myself. I had to see a different kind of love than I was raised with, to see what love really is and what it means. I've been lucky to have individuals come through my life for however long or short, who have taught/shown me these things. And reading different ways has helped too, like not so I can adulate some writer, but so I can gather ideas and see other perspectives( and not so I can read something and believe everything word for word simply because they "seem" to know what theyre talking about).

It's hard sometimes when things aren't stable. Money and such is important in this world, but it's not everything( though I guess that depends on your values). Money can be circumvented though, you can work for rent, or caretake someones land for room and board, and work for food, and barter for whatever else you need, true, not always easy in all areas, just saying there are other ways than just working for a corporation that perpetuates a way of life you disagree with. Possibilities :). There are more possibilities than scientology taught us, or even than the "real" world has taught us often.

In scientology, its all figured out pretty much. Scientology is good, being a scientologist is good, going up the bridge/training is good, being productive( in any way as long as the stats go up) is good, LRH figured it out for us and has the "real" purpose of life and thats good. Anything that says/states/creates the awareness that any of the preceeding are false, is bad.

Scientology can leave us with a very narrow perspective of the world. Leaving it opens us to possibilities that were never there or even dreamt of sometimes. We are more able to see thing objectively( based on facts rather than feelings/predetermined ideas), especialy if we are willing to question all the things we had previously just taken as "truth" ( scientology has a lot of "truth" but not the kind that makes sense or is supported with logic and factual data like real truth is).

You have the ability now to get experience in life, in real life. You can learn about whatever you want to learn about, you dont need a piece of paper to be valid or to have knowledge and use it( though for sure in some places there are regulations and laws and such to protect consumers of those services where certification is needed and assures somewhat quality of services provided..... unless you're a "religion"). You can go get you one of those pieces of papers if you wanted, too.

The more you do different things, read different stuff, talk to different people, the more you'll find what you want to do and whats really important to you. And the more you do thing, the more youll get confidence from doing whatever it is you do( or youll learn from your mistakes and be wiser :) ) . Give yourself a break, you deserve it. There's no planet to clear, no stats to reach, no ethics officer to fear( well, there is, but thats only for the people still stuck in the mind fuck fully).

Success is reflected by the light of your being, not how many "things" you have( in my eyes at least). Like I said before, talking about my experiences helps a lot. Maybe not posting everything online, but for sure writing them out and sharing them with another person at least. Even posting online helps. And reading, lots of reading, not of just scientology stuff, but of all kinds of viewpoints and actual factual information as well( it helps for sure when i come across something i "knew" was true from when i was a kid and find out it was bullshit, i just never questioned it back then). A support system is important too. Even if its just people you talk to online that understand or can relate and encourage your healing. A support system is hella important( one of the big reasons "disconnection" can be a real threat, especially if scientology was your world). It's ok too, to not be happy. That's just how life is sometimes. We can be unhappy and not have to judge ourselves. We don't have to express a certain "tone level" to be ok. One of my favorite lines from a song, "Can you say feel like shit? yeah sometimes I do feel like shit, I'm not happy about it, but I'd rather feel like shit than be ful of shit"

If you're in a pinch for food/rent/whatever, check local churches (real ones, not fakes ones like $cientology), or since youre online, do a search for local resources, foodbanks, housing asitance, school, medical, whatever you need to get yourself going again, even mental health counseling( again, real counseling, not the scientology version).

There's a story I like hella, basically about a grandfather telling his grandson about how in our hearts are two wolves fighting, one of love and hope and possibilities, and one of darkness and despair and hate and rage, and the boy aks which will win, and the grandfather replies, "the one you feed the most". It reminds me that while theres hella to be cynical about, theres hella more to be hopeful about, it just depends on whats playing inside my head/heart at the moment.

I guess thats about all I have to say for now. I have hella more thoughts/feelings, but I'm still sorting out a lot myself. We can't change the past, but we can change how we think about the past, and we can create experiences, today, that will affect how we view tommorrow( though for sure it's not always as simple as remembering this:p). Again, talking about experiences, and writing them down too can help, and reading others similar experiences, and giving yourself a break, can be hella helpful to healing, moving on, for me at least, I can only share whats worked for me, and maybe it can be helpful for you too, either way, there's more than one way to achieve the same thing. Peace and blessings.

p.s. oh wow, hela longer than I realized lol :p I've written a lot of my experiences down already, but I still have some strong feelings about my upbringing( and rightfully so given experiences), healing is an ongoing thing for me, but it is possible and it does get better. It is what it is, until its something different:p
 

Gadfly

Crusader
In my experience, being raised in scientology corrupts ones ability to effectively evaluate ones experiences and information gathered in life. The way we think about our feelings for instance, rather than them just being emotions and ok to have( there are no bad emotions, only not so good ways they are expressed/dealt with), they are labelled, with emotions indicating a problem or issue going on being undesirable( and an indicator that something is wrong with the person as opposed to maybe something in their life that is not right and needs to be addressed). The way we think about others, such as valing them based on what they can offer you or those connected to you, rather than valuing them as a human being, regardless of their economic/social/"religious" standing. The Idea that if you are having a diificult time in life, you are a danger to others and put them at risk(instead of realizing thats exatly what friends and family are supposed to be, at least in many peoples eyes, "a burden shared is halved, and a joy shared is doubled"). There's hella more to list, but the point is that scientology creates some seriously hella flawed logic in ones thinking.

(snip)

p.s. oh wow, hela longer than I realized lol :p I've written a lot of my experiences down already, but I still have some strong feelings about my upbringing( and rightfully so given experiences), healing is an ongoing thing for me, but it is possible and it does get better. It is what it is, until its something different:p

Thank-you for THAT Coyote. Your post was wonderful in all regards! :thumbsup:

For those who may look at it and think, "too long don't want to read", take the few minutes and read it. It will be worth your time.
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
After 6years of reading, living and introspection post-scientology (having been born and raised in Scn), I have come to a point where I am consistently disillusioned of what life has to offer; am cynical about most people; and a complete pessimist when it comes to my own future.....
So where to next for me? No doubt some of you have tread these waters before. I would be grateful for your insight.

I empathize with you as I faced the same quandaries as a public Scientologist even before I got out for good. Like you, I saw mostly what was wrong with our world as that’s how Ron programmed us. I saw the world as such bullshit and bullshit college sheepskins were required for any job as was experience. So how do you get experience when no one will hire you because you lack experience? My solution evolved through failure till I learned to bullshit my way into jobs. This was before the internet though, but I still think it will work now.

On some occasions out of sheer desperation I made up experience at companies I never even worked at and exaggerated my position, experience and responsibility at companies that really existed where I had actually worked. I even remember making up an out of state company that didn't exist and saying Steve Martin was my boss and got the job. The world is a huge pissing contest so I decided to give them a pisser in the kisser and see who nibbled. Often enough some lazy human resource personnel bought me, bullshit and all. And because like you too I'm sure, I pick things up quickly, I quickly proved my competency before anyone would ever have reason to run a check on me.
My last job while I was a Silon was in a factory for 6 years. One week they needed someone to drive parts to the warehouse. Voila, now I had driving and warehouse experience. I used the driving experience to parlay my way into a nice job driving for Greyhound. Then a few years later I parlayed that into a nice city transit job for ten years. This all I parlayed this all into a government job with the DOT which I eventually parlayed into an aerial mapping/land inventory job for a governmental land acquisition division till I retired two years back. Hell, for 9 months they even had me doing payroll as I reverse engineered the payroll process by studying the scanned payroll documents in the cabinet when the payroll person had a stroke and was out for 9 months.

All the result of hard work but it was smoke and mirrors that opened the doors for me. Somewhere along the line I managed to pull together all my college credits from various colleges and with a few more needed classes I got my associates degree which I accomplished mainly through telecourses so I didn’t have to attend that many actual classes. My employers got their money’s worth out of me but I had to bullshit my way through the door.
Smoke and mirrors my friend, smoke and mirrors… Just look to Obama as an example of how well it works.
Assess your skill set and interests and do what is necessary to get any entry level job that will move you in the right direction and never give up. Look at it like a game…
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
My take on it is that a problem could be that most who are raised in Scn are immersed in it. Immersed in CofS, immersed in the ideology, no other methods or ideas. Churchies often refrain from listening to/reading the news, too.

I think those of us who, in Scn, were panty waist dilettantes and who had parents (in my case one parent was. The other not involved at all.) who were panty waist dilettantes fared better.

There's nothing wrong with Hubbard's ideas about communication, theta, Dianetics, etc, in and of themselves.

But I think that even if you didn't have the CofS surroundings, it still doesn't do anyone any favors to be immersed in it because there's a mindset. If a person is looking for truth, they need to avoid getting into a mindset because they will miss truths and information coming from other sources.

That's how it seems to me and I was a Scn kid, albeit one whose Dad was a panty waist dilettante. (yes, I'm aware Hubbard said that. Yes, I'm laughing at Hubbard when I say that.)

The dilettante thing is better.

I would also say that to a devout Christian or Jew or Moslem or anything else, too.
Too much rigidity is a conduit to fundamentalism. I believe that fundamentalism obscures truth and joy.
 

Dennis

Patron
Welcome Dennis. Life is a lot better than you think.

In your case, I would think about extending your education, and look into studying something that really interests you. That way you can probably get more of those 'pieces of paper' by having a good time.

Do what you love to do. If you don't know what you love to do, do some experimenting and find out.

Thanks Smilla. This is a conclusion I have also reached. I have tried many things over the years, and will continue to do so. Hopefully, I will stumble on something that sparks my interest and gives me motivation soon :)
 

Dennis

Patron
Sounds as though earning a living is the big problem. If you're not sure how you're going to make a living, man, the world sure does look like a harsh place. Everything's insecure. It's not really about the bits of paper; the point is you need to know how you're going to get food and shelter and other good things.

On the one hand there are farmers and doctors and carpenters and mechanics and so on, who clearly have valuable skills and are entitled to live pretty well in return for the great things they provide to other people. If you don't own any farmland, or know how to perform an appendectomy or replace a transmission, it's depressing to think that you're not going to be able to join that category of people.

On the other hand, though, are people who don't really seem to have any especially valuable skills or products to offer, but make a lot of money from sheer hustle, or from knowing the right people, or from some kind of pure illusion. They're maybe even more frustrating to see, because one has the feeling that they shouldn't by rights be any better off than oneself, but by gross injustice they are.

Since Scientology is illusion, a background in Scientology probably predisposes you to see mostly the illusionary second category of the real world economy. But in fact the first category is much bigger. I'd suggest trying to somehow get into that first category of workers, by acquiring some genuinely valuable skill, and applying it to help other people in return for fair recompense. If there was anything at all in your Scientology experience that retains value in the real world, you could try to build on that. Otherwise I'd suggest going back to school, or learning a trade. Once you have something of real value to offer other people, the world doesn't look nearly so bleak.

Thanks Student of Trinity. All your comments are spot on.

I did spent a couple of years studying a knowledge based area, only to realise learning a skill would have been more valuable for my sanity, and of more intrinsic value in this world. Finding the motivation to study again, and finding an area which would satisfy is the sticking point.
 

Dennis

Patron
Dennis, you sound a great deal like me. I look around and tend to see LOTS that I find absurd, superficial, phony, false, ego-driven and overly materialistic.

The only thing I can suggest is to work a little harder at "noticing the good" out there. In people. In nature. It is actually all around you - you just don't see it, because you seem to focus (as I do at times) on all the crap.

Maybe find a job that provides some service for people - even if it is flipping burgers at McDonalds, cleaning carpets or fixing cars. Don't look at it from the abstract view of "feeding a crazy society", but look at it as assisting the person standing in front of you - a REAL LIVING HUMAN BEING.

When I got away from Scientology, I left ALL "ideology" behind. The world IS infected with it. Many people suffer from it. Just say NO, and don't participate with it in any form. The many mindless followers of ideology ARE a bane of Earth.

I have walked a fine line between "hermit" and interacting with the more unsavory aspects of society and the world. Create peace and harmony with all people you meet, and stay away from the rest of the nonsense as best you can.

Last, any values or purpose you have will be what you CHOOSE to have. "Purpose" and "meaning" are inside of you - not "out there". Choose carefully and choose well.

Welcome to ESMB. Stick around. This is ONE PLACE where you can find some honesty and sincerity (though you might not always agree with it).

Some wise words Gadfly. Thank you.

When I was a kid, I seemed to notice people did not necessarily say what they were really thinking, or how they really feel. It seemed to mostly come out behind closed doors, or behind people's back, or by force in overt and with-holds statements. I think this was also magnified by the importance placed on what was said in the "confidential" confines of the auditing room, as opposed to out in the open.

Most people see other people as intrinsically good until proven otherwise. Because of my fixation on what people say behind closed doors, and the facades they put on in the open, I acknowledge that I quite often see people as having the potential to cause harm, effectively seeing them as harmful/self-fish people until proven good. So, you are right. I do need to stop focusing on all the crap.
 

Dennis

Patron
Just don't sit on the sidelines and feel sorry for yourself. That would be a waste and you'll make for bad company. Life doesn't necessarily "offer" you anything. It's your perspective that matters.

Post-scn it has been hard to trust my own perspective. Maybe I have learnt enough, and seen enough, for me to be able to start trusting it.

Thank you.
 

Dennis

Patron
My take on it is that a problem could be that most who are raised in Scn are immersed in it. Immersed in CofS, immersed in the ideology, no other methods or ideas. Churchies often refrain from listening to/reading the news, too.

I think those of us who, in Scn, were panty waist dilettantes and who had parents (in my case one parent was. The other not involved at all.) who were panty waist dilettantes fared better.

There's nothing wrong with Hubbard's ideas about communication, theta, Dianetics, etc, in and of themselves.

But I think that even if you didn't have the CofS surroundings, it still doesn't do anyone any favors to be immersed in it because there's a mindset. If a person is looking for truth, they need to avoid getting into a mindset because they will miss truths and information coming from other sources.

That's how it seems to me and I was a Scn kid, albeit one whose Dad was a panty waist dilettante. (yes, I'm aware Hubbard said that. Yes, I'm laughing at Hubbard when I say that.)

The dilettante thing is better.

I would also say that to a devout Christian or Jew or Moslem or anything else, too.
Too much rigidity is a conduit to fundamentalism. I believe that fundamentalism obscures truth and joy.

You are right. There was no pre-scn for me. My way of looking at the world was solely through the ideology of Scientology. Post-scn, I could not just reboot myself to a time prior to Scientology. I had (and continue to) weed through my perceptions and determine which to keep and which to render useless.
 

Dennis

Patron
In my experience, being raised in scientology corrupts ones ability to effectively evaluate ones experiences and information gathered in life.

...scientology creates some seriously hella flawed logic in ones thinking.

One of the first areas I had to develop was critical thinking. Scientology dulls critical thinking to the max, but in a way that you thought your critical thinking was far superior to those outside of Scientology.

When I quit having anything to do with scientology, the "messages" I heard growing up still played in my head/heart. They were pretty fucked up messages full of how I would fail and would never make it in the world among all the crazies and degraded beings and there was no point in living in a world like that. I had very little real world experience at that point, most of my experience had been with scientology and scientologists and such who reinforced this flawed view of the world.

What helped change, and is helping to continue to change that, is to work on those "messages" that still play( even after all these years). For me, changing those messages requires talking about my feelings and whats going on, and recognizing the flaws in the thinking and replacing it with a more positive message. Basically, drowning out the old messages with new messages that more accurately reflect the real world and a more healthy idea of how things can be. Like if I have a problem and need help, it's ok to ask for help. It doesn't mean I need to get handled and figure my shit so I can be acceptable to others. Having problems/difficulties in life does not equal you being fucked.


For me, I also had/have to realize there are many ways to ones goals, not just one, and no one person has a monopoly on the truth. I had to open my eyes so to speak, to be willing to se that things werent the way I had learned/grew up with. I had to realize that, maybe some of the stuff had truth to it, but it was exageration, using a small part of the truth to represent the whole truth, and that not everyone behaved that way. I had to recognize the parts of the indoctrination that I still held onto and I still judged myself by.

Yes, I also had a lot of fuckd up messages playing in my head that had to be understood and proven wrong one after the other. It was (is) a complicated and life consuming task weeding through all the inbuilt Scientology perspectives and establishing which ones to keep (based on accepted truths) and what to render useless.

I have found post-scn it is almost like I have two different personalities. One is open and accepting of the world; Proactive and positive; I see the beauty of the sky, and feel the pleasure of the warmth of sun on my skin. The other is closed and negative often hiding from the world; often disgruntled; and often angry about having to deal with a life in Scientology. I used to be constantly in the latter. More and more I am in the former. The more I recognise the messages resulting from Scientology perspectives, and the more I understood these and rendered them useless the more clarity I got and the more positive my viewpoint became. Every now and then my negative (Scientology) perspective still has its way. Sometimes it changes in a moment, sometimes it brews for days. Sometimes I can change it, sometimes I don’t want to change it; preferring the comfort of familiarity. Sometimes it seems an endless task of correcting the wrongs, and I wonder when it will end, so I can just be me.

All in all, its replacing the mssages, and being open to experiences that show me the world in other ways than what I was raised to believe( while trying to find the fine line of caution, once( or hella times) bitten, twice( or hella ) shy. I have to remind myself of these things all the time. Compassion and empathy have been hella important, for me to have for others, but also, just as importantly, to have for myself. I had to see a different kind of love than I was raised with, to see what love really is and what it means. I've been lucky to have individuals come through my life for however long or short, who have taught/shown me these things. And reading different ways has helped too, like not so I can adulate some writer, but so I can gather ideas and see other perspectives( and not so I can read something and believe everything word for word simply because they "seem" to know what theyre talking about).

I have also been lucky to have people come into my life that care for me, look after me, and support me. Without their empathy and love, I would still be a Scientologist. I am always learning from them.

If anything, post-scn has taught me that one idea, one theory, one ideology is never a given. There are always two sides to a coin, and understanding both leads to a healthier outlook. I am always questioning my own thoughts to determine how I came to those conclusions, and what perspective they emanate from. It is a constant and difficult task to trust in my own perspective.

In scientology, its all figured out pretty much. Scientology is good, being a scientologist is good, going up the bridge/training is good, being productive( in any way as long as the stats go up) is good, LRH figured it out for us and has the "real" purpose of life and thats good. Anything that says/states/creates the awareness that any of the preceeding are false, is bad.

Scientology can leave us with a very narrow perspective of the world. Leaving it opens us to possibilities that were never there or even dreamt of sometimes. We are more able to see thing objectively( based on facts rather than feelings/predetermined ideas), especialy if we are willing to question all the things we had previously just taken as "truth" ( scientology has a lot of "truth" but not the kind that makes sense or is supported with logic and factual data like real truth is).

Yes. I totally agree. In some ways being in Scientology seems simple in comparison to the real world. The “road to freedom” was a clear charted path. In the real world the path is not so clear. Scientology gives everything that a human being craves philosophical in a nice little package. In the real world filling those philosophical cravings is a constant search of many and varied philosophical perspectives including that of your own perspectives. The only thing that Scientology cannot ultimately provide is, as you say, is the “truth” (or if you prescribe - that there is no “truth”).


Success is reflected by the light of your being, not how many "things" you have( in my eyes at least).

Beautifully said :)


If you're in a pinch for food/rent/whatever, check local churches (real ones, not fakes ones like $cientology), or since youre online, do a search for local resources, foodbanks, housing asitance, school, medical, whatever you need to get yourself going again, even mental health counseling( again, real counseling, not the scientology version).

Sorry if I have portrayed that I am in a pinch, and I am sorry if I have concerned anyone in that respect. I have friends around me that love and care for me. My comments revolved around being ready to stand on my own two feet, and having the desire to enter the world anew, but not having the necessary credentials, or the necessary motivation to play the game that life demands.

There's a story I like hella, basically about a grandfather telling his grandson about how in our hearts are two wolves fighting, one of love and hope and possibilities, and one of darkness and despair and hate and rage, and the boy aks which will win, and the grandfather replies, "the one you feed the most". It reminds me that while theres hella to be cynical about, theres hella more to be hopeful about, it just depends on whats playing inside my head/heart at the moment.

I guess thats about all I have to say for now. I have hella more thoughts/feelings, but I'm still sorting out a lot myself. We can't change the past, but we can change how we think about the past, and we can create experiences, today, that will affect how we view tommorrow( though for sure it's not always as simple as remembering this:p). Again, talking about experiences, and writing them down too can help, and reading others similar experiences, and giving yourself a break, can be hella helpful to healing, moving on, for me at least, I can only share whats worked for me, and maybe it can be helpful for you too, either way, there's more than one way to achieve the same thing. Peace and blessings.
You are what you think. I keep forgetting this simple fact. Thank you. :)
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Great thread! Thank you Dennis.

I am sitting here smiling. :)

Consciously, each day I find simple things for which I take a few moments to feel - and express - gratitude for. This has helped me through dark times but more than that, it has helped me cut through that heavy black and white thinking that is so deeply installed with the scientology system.

The scientology system creates an elitist marginalization. Scientology is based on an "us" and "them" mentality. It marginalizes various emotions, types of people and behaviour. This very black and white way of looking at the world is not, imho, at all healthy. It is actually like a limiting mental trap - I call it the mind-control tunnel.

I have found taking a little time to consciously be grateful for the small things in life, has shifted my perspective on life and helped cut through the whacky concepts which ran on automatic from the scientology system.

This evening, I am very grateful for this thread. It has some excellent ideas being shared within it. Thank you so much.
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hi Dennis,
This is a great thread. See what you've done! :coolwink:
Coyote's response was brilliant as were many others.
Having not grown up in scn but getting in very shortly thereafter, I still have
my upbringing to fall back on, where it is clear you do not. Big difference and
my perspective was lacking in that in my response. Even though I raised my
own children in the cult I also shielded them a good deal from the craziness and
never sent them to scn immersion schools. At times, when the heat was on me, I, in turn, tried somewhat to brainwash them but, luckily, they were not the sheep the cult wished them to be. Their ability to see the truth helped open my own eyes.

Total immersion as a kid and then being on your own must be seriously difficult.
My advice still stands but I see it was somewhat insensitive to the actuality of your situation. I see it's not something you can easily just shake off.

But I still think doing the simple things in life and taking one day at a time and mixing with as many people as you can along the way will be a good way to learn how to not think as a scientologist. You'll pick up the new language (non-scientologese) quickly enough and restore your natural ability to think critically. It will come.

Although much later in life (unfortunately!) I had to venture out on my own away from the decades of non-critical thinking - into the real world. I always kept one
foot in the real world while in so it wasn't as hard, but I still had to step back and
learn how others thought and felt and how to behave and how not to stat-push and control everything under the sun. Not easy I tell you and I'm sure I looked like a mis-fit many times over even though I thought I was being subtle! It's a process whether you're young or old. But be grateful that you're out and just start building on that bit by bit.

I hope you will find employment to start you off and move along from there. You can probably get financial assistance for school so it won't cost. Hopefully, you can pick someone you know now or in the near future to be a bit of a mentor to you. Of course all of us here will do that job from afar so at least you have us!

Wishing you all the best and looking forward to your news and progress, which I'm sure will come. :yes:
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Dennis, I want to share something with you.

My daughter was born and raised in the Sea Org in Clearwater at Flag. She was a happy kid, up until she was recruited from the Cadet Org to become full time SO staff at about age 14.

I don't want to explain the whole story here, with all the sorry details, but she was married at age 16. Her husband ended up getting routed to the RPF. Of course the forced separation was horrible to her. Here was this sweet, young and innocent girl, carried away in a river of love, suddenly blocked from even talking to her husband. Talk about "suppression" and "PTSness" - if one wants to think with and use such terms.

After a few months her husband decided to route out of the Sea Org. They wouldn't let her talk to him! Can you imagine that? She was going through hell mentally and emotionally. She wanted to TALK TO HIM, to communicate, to find out what was going on. Her thoughts included, "does he love me", "did he ever love me", "should I go with him", and on and on. Of course, even though Hubbard says that "communication is the universal solvent", NOPE, she was forbidden from doing so. She almost had a nervous breakdown. The view from the Sea Org was that she was "type three crazy". Of course, the Sea Org idiots couldn't see that it was THEY themselves who were tearing her apart. All for the good of the GROUP and SCREW everybody else (THAT is Scientology).

The Flag security team started watching her too so that she wouldn't try to communicate with him. They told her that he was out-ethics and a "DB" for leaving the Sea Org. They told her that the second dynamic didn't matter and that the important thing was helping Ron clear the planet. Blah-blah-blah.

This TORE her little heart apart. Sadly, I was declared at the time, which made it worse, because she had NOBODY who could or would actually listen to HER.

Over the next couple years she tried to route out of the Sea Org a few times, and finally succeeded when she was about 20 years old. The idiots at Flag arranged to send her to New Mexico - mainly to get her FAR away from the people here (that she might enturbulate or upset), and so that she wouldn't get in comm with me (I lived in Clearwater and was declared). Scientology staff (and public) can be such over-controlling FUCKS! :yes: :omg: :ohmy: :biggrin:

So, here she was with no high school education, no support, no job experience of any sort, no friends, and she was being sent to a strange new place. She told me later that she was totally terrified. Her mind and emotions were in complete CHAOS, Hubbard's wonderful Sea Org staff, following insane Hubbard policies and orders, CAUSED her to be in that mental state. Thank-you Ron! (sarcasm)

Her sleeping difficulties began then, when she was forced to undergo all of that crap in the Sea Org, and have continued all through her life, though slowly it seems to be getting better.

To make a long story short, it took her many talks with me and many YEARS for her to finally get over that. Oh, she did move back to Clearwater (despite Sea Org urges for her not to), and even though I was declared she got back in touch with me (she kept that secret for awhile). She eventually moved in with me, and actually hung out with some Scientology friends for about 2 years - while living with a declared SP (me). That was pretty funny.

She eventually also get declared, and her over-indoctrinated "Scientology" brother basically refuses to communicate with both of us

She worked MANY jobs over the last 10 years. She tried this, she tried that. She went and got her GED (high school diploma). I would drive her everywhere for whatever she needed (for work or play). I bought her a car to help her get a start. While I did it because I LOVE HER, there was also a small part of me, deep and quietly inside, that felt that I needed to "make up the damage" for having allowed her to be brought up in the Sea Org. There were many factors with that, including that when I routed out of the SO, her mother stayed in and wanted the children there with her. But, that is all water under the bridge. You can't change the past, but you CAN choose today and make a better tomorrow. Without Scientology! :yes:

It is now 10 years after she left, and she is working a job she likes, we have a GREAT relationship, and 9 months ago she became the proud mother of a beautiful baby girl!

nats001.jpg


So, despite all the trials and tribulations, difficulties and pain along the way, she is NOW a happy MOTHER - a mother who showers her daughter with care and love, and who would NEVER think to treat another human being the way she was treated by Hubbard's Army of Idiots.

To her, one of the highest values is simply to be kind, understanding and NICE to other people. Obviously that is sort of a reaction to what she FAILED to get from the Sea Org and Scientology doofuses.

So Dennis, Just take whatever steps you feel best to take each day, and you WILL end up somewhere just fine.

The kids who were brought up in Scientology had it the worse, because they had no choice, and because they had nothing else to compare things to. But, that is over. You DO have a choice now, and you are free to CREATE YOUR LIFE HOWEVER YOU WANT. :happydance:

My daughter did it and so will you. :yes:
 
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NoName

A Girl Has No Name
I will keep this short, as I didn't grow up in Scn. I grew up in another cult, and a couple of years ago found myself reading Steven Hassan's books "Combatting Cult Mind Control" and the second one (name escapes me). I was reading the books because my friend was in the Co$ and was trying to disseminate to me ALL THE FUCKING TIME. I wasn't going to risk disconnection, but I wasn't going to be disseminnated to either.

Well, reading the books got me to see a lot of my own cult-influenced thoughts and behaviors for what they were, and I'm in a lot better place now. I can keep some of the beneficial things from the cult and discard the vast majority of destructive bullshit. Maybe the books would help you too.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
You are right. There was no pre-scn for me. My way of looking at the world was solely through the ideology of Scientology. Post-scn, I could not just reboot myself to a time prior to Scientology. I had (and continue to) weed through my perceptions and determine which to keep and which to render useless.

I think the change in point of view will come gradually, with time.

I would like to recommend that you do some reading about other things, but, honestly, I would say to just start out by decompressing and hanging out with people you like, do things you like- only because that's what you want to do, not because you should clear the planet or whatnot. Don't worry about learning about other realms of thought right away.

You can also learn a lot from fun and nice everyday pleasant activities and socializing, too.

Glad to meet you.
 
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