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PRe OT and OT Levels

Discussion in 'Grundy's Guide to Scientology' started by grundy, Mar 12, 2008.

  1. grundy

    grundy Gold Meritorious Patron

    I am starting a new thread for the next set of levels. Because I know that people are gonna comment the hell out of me lol

    IN OUR CONTINUEING SAGA ... the person has now attained the state of clear and wants to continue. His next steps:

    The Pre-OT levels.
    These are levels above "Clear" which are still dealing with handling "bank" or "aberratons" but instead of the first dynamic, it is on the other dynamics.

    "Original OT I-VII" were processes which were supposed to increase OT ability or handle the things that were supposed to be handled on OT levels. However, the OT levels were changed at some point to what they are now.

    New OT I - Expected End Result (End Phenomenon) (EP) A fresh causitive OT Viewpoint on the MEST universe and other beings.
    OT II - Expected EP - ability to confront the whole track.
    OT III (Wall of Fire) - Expected EP Return of Self-Determinism and Freedom from overwhelm (if you want to know more, search for OT 3/confidential materials and other stuff on the internet. I don't read this stuff because I don't care)
    New OT IV - OT Drug Rundown - given to eradicate the last bit of effect of drugs on the being (thetan).
    New OT V - Audited New Era Dianetics for OTs (Second Wall of Fire)- These are procedures that are related to Dianetics but applied to OTs. Yeah the whole Body Thetan thing. Whatever lol
    New OT VI - Solo New Era Dianetics Auditor Course - this trains you to run Solo NOTs on yourself out in the field.
    New OT VII - Solo Audited NED for OTs - Solo Auditing procedures for you guessed it, yada yada yada

    ACTUAL OT Levels:
    These are levels that are actually designed to increase OT abilities. You are no longer auditing out abberations but actually increasing spiritual ability.

    New OT VIII - Handles the primary reason from amnesia on the whole track
    New OT IX - XV - not released yet (will they ever be?)

    I will start a new thread for training courses
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2008
  2. Kathy (ImOut)

    Kathy (ImOut) Gold Meritorious Patron

    I wonder if I'm a past life OT II. I have NO problem confronting my whole track. Just can't see the whole damn thing.:dieslaughing:
  3. grundy

    grundy Gold Meritorious Patron

  4. Muhammad

    Muhammad Patron

    I think that the pre ot levels handles general case of the individuals and leaves some areas of charge in the nocks and corner of their case that needs to be addressed before the person will get the benifit of the ot levels. When does the areas of history of man get covered, Philly Docs, etc, Not everyone has the same time track and viewpoints we are all diffent so would not are cases be different. There is more to the bank than bts and clusters
    As per the ot levels after 8, I heard that some people have done them in the freezone but don't know anyone personally.But would like to know if anyone knows anyone who has done ot 9 or above and what exactly is on it.
    As sala'amu alaikum
  5. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    That is probably a reference to the Ron's Orgs Excalibur. RO's have a different advanced levels approach than other groups. RO's are very standard on the lower bridge. It isn't until around OT II & III that their materials start to materially differ.

    Because of the differences their levels diverge numerically. I believe they go up to 48 at the present.

    One "problem" you have with the freezone & independents generally is sorting out what is actually being offered by which group. Some groups use differing versions of "the bridge", often dependent on the time period of "standard tech" that that particular group trusts as being "most correct".

    International Freezone Association (IFA) was established as an "umbrella" org to help groups identify themselves as "standard tech" groups. Sort of a "Freezone HASI". They aren't THAT structured, nor are they hostile to other approaches. But they don't promote "alternative tech".

    If interested in pursuing services it is worth keeping this in mind when considering which groups to rely on for assistance.

    Mark A. Baker
  6. Muhammad

    Muhammad Patron

  7. grundy

    grundy Gold Meritorious Patron

    I have found an interesting thing online regarding OT and Pre-OT levels. It explains much of fu$%ed-upedness regarding the "Bridge to Total Freedom."
  8. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    David Mayo saw the notes from Hubbard that were to become the upper upper OT levels. He described them as gobbledygook.

    Pierre Ethier posted on this board as "Class 12." It started out politely, and deteriorated. He even threatened to sue Emma.

    He's a "Xenu-Bridge" seller, and promotes the belief that this "Xenu-Bridge" eventually leads to "Full OT."

    IMO, his information is often not reliable.
  9. grundy

    grundy Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hmm. Thanks for that.

    I didn't know that.

    He did seem to be .. pushing his own agenda a bit.

    Doesn't alter the fact that some of what he said made sense.
  10. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Pierre didn't cover himself in glory during his brief residence at ESMB.
    The cycle with Emma is regrettable.

    However, I would like to say that Mrs T is currently doing her Ls with Pierre and is totally blown away. She's not one to get carried away or overly enthusiastic about things.

    I don't believe that Pierre is "the finished article" so to speak, but I do think he is doing a good service to those who want the Ls, which is pretty much most of what he audits these days. He does deliver what he promises.
  11. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Glad to hear that. :)

    I have many personal friends who have benifited greatly from Pierre's
    expertise in iether the auditor or C/S chair or auditor trainer chair.( also
    C/S chair) Thats what he's superb at.

    Bridges! Is it good or bad we have so many alternatives?

    Just visited Alan today and was greatly impressed, not only by him
    but by the people working with him. His " Ranch" is beautiful and a very safe space. .......If you can find it. :)

    He said he modeled it in some ways on the early SHSBC, much co-auditing and shared research.

    I was particularly impressed by the fact that one of people, who was quite new to any "tech" insisted on co-processing with him, and she made that happen. And he allowed it. Hope this gives an idea of how safe the space there is. :)
  12. beyond_horizons

    beyond_horizons Patron Meritorious

    Mayo described it well.

    Pierre on the other hand, seems to have no grasp of what’s possible outside his paradigm of scino speak. To threaten to Sue Emma is simply the dark ages of KSW surfacing.

  13. Original "Old" OT Levels Recycled as New Ones?

    Hi everyone,

    Anyone have theories they would like to share on the OT levels to come out above OT VIII really just being the ORIGINAL OT V,VI and VII processes from the late 60s early 70s? I have seen a few theories on this and to me it makes a lot of sense. Those original OT level processes (not to be confused with NOTs, etc) have not seen the light of day since what - 1978 or so? Some Advanced Mags etc. from that period mentioned they were still in brief use after NOTs came out - then they disappeared completely. Heck the only place they show up these days on the the FES Summary Form where it asks if the person did these original OT levels. New auditors just gloss over them blankly, being completely lost and not knowing their history. After all, they are just "old and no longer used now." Bwah ha ha!

    Brining them back out as "new" OT levels makes sense to me. From what I have heard they were pretty damn good - never did them myself so can't comment.

    Of course, the one theory being that LRH had to develop grades, etc. as an "undercut" to the high level OT processes developed earlier would tend to support this theory of brining those process back as "new" higher OT levels.

    I don't however think this will be OT XI and X as those are (are least X) solo audited, and these original OT processes were (to my knowledge) not solo. Perhaps they could be made so however. Anyone every do the original ones who could comment on this and if they could be effectively run solo?

    One interesting point on this is that if this is correct, then the "upper un-released" OT levels the Church is promising are in fact already available outside the Church as I believe some independents do use these "old and no longer used" processes. Is anyone aware of specific independents who do use these?

    I find it somewhat amusing the possibility that the highest OT levels church members are waiting for could in fact be the ones from decades ago that they just forgot about and have been floating around ever since.

    The penalty for not knowing your own history can be steep.

    I would love to hear what others have to say on this topic.

    Crusty Old Bastard
  14. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    You are correct that the Freezone does use these original OT levels.
    I've posted quite a few success stories on them, though not recently.

    I believe some have solo'd them, but they as far as I know
    originally had some parts to be audited by another and some parts soloed.

    Also originally COS did Original OT 7 after OT 3 to be an intention booster, and then returned to OT 3 which was referred as OT3X - expanded.
  15. Muhammad

    Muhammad Patron

    Pierre is supposed to have the New OT levels up to 15. I have heard it from a few sources. He even had a web page explaining them also he has delivered up thru OTX.
    As sala'amu alaikum
  16. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    How soon they forget.

    In 1965/66, the "Clearing Course" finally had "eliminated the final barrier to full OT," and all one needed to do was the 'Creation of Human Ability' 'Route One drills' to make full OT. Then came "OT 3," and that was the big level that made full OT finally possible. Then, in 1979, came "NOTs," and that finally made full OT possible.

    The old OT levels were fun, but they didn't "make full OTs" of people who weren't already "OT" anyway. And in 1979 I was told, much to my surprise, from a "tech terminal" at the Los Angeles Advanced Org, that "The old OT levels didn't really work, BUT NOW! with the release of 'NOTs' - well, here we go!"

    When David Mayo visited Europe in 1986, and was asked about the "levels beyond 7" (beyond old 7, and beyond new 7, or "NOTs"), he answered honestly, and the eager Free Zoners (two words then, used only by Capt. Bill's Ron's Orgers) frowned in displeasure. If Mayo had just told them that there were all these wonderful levels above 7, that Ron had developed, etc., the Free Zoners would have been in his back pocket, but Mayo told the truth.

    The Free Zone wanted lots of levels, levels, levels, levels! Gimme levels! And Scientology Inc. has been missing the boat by not providing them. Well, at least Pierre is giving them what they want.

    More levels! And from Ron too!

    Uh huh...
  17. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Fair points.

    The idea that after quadrillions of years of dwindling spiral we could all get OT in one lifetime is a little far-fetched to say the least.

    Scientology means one thing to me - a start.

    I haven't heard anything about PE delivering OTIX and X.
    He discusses them briefly here:
    PE concentrates on delivering Ls. I'm glad that he does.
  18. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I've never expressed an opinion on the "Ls," except that they're hyped to the hilt. I'm not judging anyone who has them.

    The comment was in response to Pierre Class 12's web site, and to Muhammad's post.
  19. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Goddamned Mayo, telling the truth like that. Doesn't he know that people flock to a circus, but avoid a sage?
  20. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Okay. I wasn't trying to infer anything Veda.
    Your points were well taken.