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PRe OT and OT Levels

Discussion in 'Grundy's Guide to Scientology' started by grundy, Mar 12, 2008.

  1. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Veda, it's clear to me that when you speak of the "freezone" or "freezoners" you HAVE NOT GOT A CLUE what you are talking about.

    I have NEVER seen you make ONE single sensible statement about the "freezone".

    MANY freezoners regard Mayo quite highly and share his views of the tech.

    So, CBR's associates didn't fawn over David Mayo? Bupkus!

    Freezoners are NOT the Co$. They DON'T play follow the leader. That's why there are so many DIFFERING FACTIONS in the freezone. Even the RO's have factions. IFA is just an "association of somewhat like-minded people".

    "Freezone" is a collective term for disparate individuals. There is no implied unity beyond some degree of interest in the tech of scientology. For many that degree of interest is very loose indeed.

    Most of the people who post on ESMB would qualify as "freezoners" IF they CHOSE to consider themselves as such.

    Decide what you hate the most: the Co$, Hubbard, the subject of scientology, or the freezone. Then ...


    It's a sign of an unhealthy & obsessive fixation. :)

    Mark A. Baker
  2. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I agree with all you say Mark.

    With regard to the above remark,I'm friends with almost all the top
    Ron's Org Tech terminals. Some of them studied with David Mayo.
  3. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Emphasis added, plus "Huh?"

    The "Freezone" (one word) has been seeking for a long time to co-opt David Mayo as one of their own, often representing Mayo as having been part of the "Freezone," when Mayo, in fact, rejected the terms "Free Zone" AND also "Freezone."

    The "Freezone" has been using Scientology PR tactics to "handle" people for some time, after all, as Ron said, "It's a PR world," but what you're doing here is dishonest, and you've done it many times before.

    You take comments by me and carefully edit them so as to make your point. (Why you assume that this will be effective, I've no idea.) But here you've done it again:

    I describe the "Free Zone" of Ron's Orgs (with "Free Zone" as two words), and specifically note that it's Ron's Orgs, with two words for "Free Zone," and you quote me and carefully delete that.

    "Professional" Scientologists pride themselves on their "PR skills," and as being masters of Human Emotion, (hard to believe, but they do!) and its influencing and control, and I know that you're a Scientologist, but jeez...

    I was referring to Bill Robertson's 1986 "Free Zone's" group's reaction to David Mayo's comments about the levels "after 7," and you have me making a statement about the "Freezone," a "Freezone" for which you are, apparently, a PR representative.

    It's the so called "Freezone" that seeks to "lump together" others as being in the "Freezone," even David Mayo who never was. And that's unwholesome, and not terribly honest. But it is very Scientologically PR teckky.

    As for Pierre Class 12, do you classify him as part of the "Freezone"? Does he want to be so classified?

    My final comment had to do, specifically, with Pierre and his PCs, who mainly are those who "want their LRH Bridge." Since there really is no "LRH Bridge" (in a positive sense), since "Bridges" lead somewhere, in this case to "Full OT," he's selling something that he doesn't have, in my humble, suppressive, anti-Scientology, anti-LRH, hateful, unhealthy and fixated opinion.

    Usually those "wanting the 'Standard Tech' LRH Bridge" classify themselves as being in the "Freezone," that's why there is also the term "Independent," to separate the two views, the "Independents" not desiring the "Standard Tech LRH Bridge."

    And only after repeated noting that there IS a difference - despite a years long effort (somewhat successful) to blur the two terms - do some in the "Freezone" (at least on this forum), recognize that there's a "Freezone" and also the "Independents."

    So what was your problem again?

    What is it that really bugs you? Is it that Xenu thing? What's the problem, and why are you wasting my time?

    You really should look around, take a good look, I don't live in your "PR world," or in "Ron's PR world" either, and please don't use your Scientology PR tactics on me. It's icky.
  4. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Why is he wasting your time?!!!!!!!

    WTF! You are the Commodore of the internet?

    Why are you responding?

    I had the thought that you might be Virginia McLaughrey in disguise.

    However she is tres cute, and more coherent than you. More passion and style also.

    Her madness had an aesthetic quality. Sadly lacking in yours.
  5. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Goodness me peoples, I know it's a passionate subject but there's no need for name calling surely? This is one reason I don't wander this way often. :confused2:
  6. beyond_horizons

    beyond_horizons Patron Meritorious


    Seems this freezone, like some kind of skin ointment, doesn’t seem to unite, defragment or actually fix up beings or groups in the long run. But rather in the tradition of its grand master, it seems to create more and more fragments and more disparate individuals and groups! I spose that’s why I don’t view it viable in the long run other than a halfway house.

    If it isn't working it’s because it’s based upon nebulous and conflicted homegrown archetypes. Like that cookie cutter state of “clear” for example, thats probably undergoing revision number 32 or something as we speak!

    Personally, I'd have been off this board long ago if it weren't for a few here that have done their own gap analysis between other stuff and have seen the light about all this.

    I still wonder if the scientologist / freezone / adore the commodore loyal officer mindset can ever understand the simple truth of "unity", as it was before the beginning, eon’s and eon’s before that commodore bloke ever started cutting, regurgitating and pasting other’s stuff under the guise of the one and only soul “source”.

    So sad to observe :bigcry: ! But at the same time so glad to be out! :happydance:
  7. MarkWI

    MarkWI Patron Meritorious

    I find the posts of Veda valuable, coherent and accurate over time.
    I still value some of the tech to be positive and helpful, but it is as long as it is not taken as a package and in the end, as Veda suggest, I would not even call it Scientology. Scientology is a package, and we all know how evil that package turn out to be.

    Nazism probably did good things too, but no one would call these good things "Nazism". If you take the bad things out of Nazism what you have left is something else. The same for Communism, Capitalism and almost all other -isms around.

    I can only thank Mark, Terrill and freezoners in general to be there and provide the tech they consider positive to people that still want to follow that route in a much more free environment.

  8. Veda,

    Have you got a source for this statement about Mayo calling LRHs upper OT level notes gobbledygook? Web link if possible.
  9. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    I can't see my "whole track" at all. Guess I as-issed it in a past life.
  10. thetanic

    thetanic Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'd call it a VW Bug.
  11. Smitty

    Smitty Silver Meritorious Patron

    comment to Terril Park

    What is the quality of your madness, Terril?
  12. Carnaubawax

    Carnaubawax Patron Meritorious

    I don't think that what he is talking about has much in common with the scraps that the Cof$ are trying to cobble together either.
  13. Carnaubawax

    Carnaubawax Patron Meritorious

    There are no OT levels and there are no OT's.
  14. Björkist

    Björkist Silver Meritorious Patron

    There are none who are knowing cause over matter, energy, space and time?

    Speak for yourself.
  15. Carnaubawax

    Carnaubawax Patron Meritorious

    You deceive yourself, but not me.
  16. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    What, you mean like, physicists? Even they wouldn't make that claim, although they can certainly "start, change, and stop" many different types of matter and energy.

    Never met anybody who could do it without machine assistance.
  17. Björkist

    Björkist Silver Meritorious Patron

    Really look at and contemplate what OT means.

    Knowing and willing cause over MEST.

    Nothing super-human, sci-fi or wacky about it really.
  18. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    The wacky part is the belief that it has been created in Scientology. Perhaps there has been one or more OTs. Perhaps that's why there's a universe.

    I don't see it as happening without a body, and without machines.
  19. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Bracketed words, above, inserted.

    And, of course, it's "super-human," thus the terms 'Homo Novis', 'Clear', and 'Operating Thetan', and their counterparts, 'wog', 'homo sap', 'humanoid', 'raw meat', etc., and - as used by some Scientology Freezoners - "meatball."

    Personally, I'm a big fan of consciousness expansion, development and evolution, however, with Scientology, while a person may initially advance, he ultimately goes sideways, and even backwards. It's not a "Bridge" but a kind of mobius strip, and a person - once in it - is expected not to notice.
  20. A mind is a machine. Who invented that machine?