Priest-Penitent Privilege in all forms of Scientology

Free Being Me

Crusader
>snip<But what I have come to terms with is that even if the tech harms people, people have the right to apply it.

The Anabaptist Jacques

That's exactly what hubbard intended to do, P.R. scientology as acceptable, people have a right to apply it, reference KSW. Complacency over a mind controlling cultist paradigm that ruins & twists lives isn't acceptable, not for me anyway. That's why scientology is infiltrating every level of the legal/societal/government structures it possibly can, and look at what's happened so far. Human beings mentally/emotionally abused, lied to, murders, suicides, families torn apart, reputations destroyed, followers deceived into protecting a brutal totalitarian mafia. What happens when the church goes under and a merry band of scientologists starts a new group with all of hubbard's polices in force? I have a right to oppose hubbard's scientology and will continue to do so.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
The Ho-Hummer Games

Yes, the Church of Scientology's actions have victimized thousands. I think it IS pertinent to distinguish the nature of the this victimization.

Asking a person to "Recall a time that was really real" to them is quite different than having them mortgage their life to dispose of alleged BTs or to fill the coffers of the IAS, destroy the psychs, save the planet, etc.

There is a difference. Auditing a person does not necessarily equate to victimizing.

Just to be a devil: How much $ is flowed into Christian Church coffers? Well they don't victimize people you might argue and yes I can agree partially with that, but if you care to look at the Texas School Board's influence on textbook content which affects not just the children of Texas but the entire country, then I might point out that certain Christian fundamentalists are victimizing our children in FAR greater numbers and impact than the mere thousands of Scilons.


Pirate and Bum,

Thanks for your comment.

However, please remember that we must be careful not to pollute this and the other half dozen threads rehashing ancient feuds (that 99% of us really don't give a fig about) with anything resembling garden variety common sense.

The important thing is that this old feud be fought yet one more time, but this time no enemy can be left standing. Your eternity and the eternities of every ex-Scientologist in this sector of the galaxy depends on it.

And for everyone viewing from home -- watch tonight to see which contestants are forming alliances. Will tonight be the night that someone is voted off the island? Tune in and be ready to stay late for the overtime rounds.

In the meantime, please send your donations and PMs of support to your favorite competitors.

TG1
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
That's exactly what hubbard intended to do, P.R. scientology as acceptable, people have a right to apply it, reference KSW. Complacency over a mind controlling cultist paradigm that ruins & twists lives isn't acceptable, not for me anyway. That's why scientology is infiltrating every level of the legal/societal/government structures it possibly can, and look at what's happened so far. Human beings mentally/emotionally abused, lied to, murders, suicides, families torn apart, reputations destroyed, followers deceived into protecting a brutal totalitarian mafia. What happens when the church goes under and a merry band of scientologists starts a new group with all of hubbard's polices in force? I have a right to oppose hubbard's scientology and will continue to do so.

If you don't think I oppose Scientology, you don't know me at all FreeBeing. I actually find that quite hurtful.

[video=youtube;49LRiRORW_4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=49LRiRORW_4[/video]

[video=youtube;87oPA9eWLwc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=87oPA9eWLwc[/video]

[video=youtube;VYRzjQ_dEag]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=VYRzjQ_dEag[/video]

[video=youtube;ctngHrqRmrA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=ctngHrqRmrA[/video]
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Yes, the Church of Scientology's actions have victimized thousands. I think it IS pertinent to distinguish the nature of the this victimization.

Yes, I think it's pertinent too. No one so far from the APIS/IFA has come forward to clarify how KSW in the FZ both omits and includes the noxious Hubbard tech, ethics and admin directives that they promote.

Asking a person to "Recall a time that was really real" to them is quite different than having them mortgage their life to dispose of alleged BTs or to fill the coffers of the IAS, destroy the psychs, save the planet, etc.

There is a difference. Auditing a person does not necessarily equate to victimizing.

Of course there's a difference between the ARC Straightwire process you mentioned and OT 3. There are many other differences between processes and levels. That aside, the APIS/IFA practitioners promote that they sell the Scientology Bridge, some the entire Bridge, including Ls. KSW Scientology includes Ethics-Tech-Admin. The APIS/IFA promotes standard, KSW Scientology.

Just to be a devil: How much $ is flowed into Christian Church coffers? Well they don't victimize people you might argue and yes I can agree partially with that, but if you care to look at the Texas School Board's influence on textbook content which affects not just the children of Texas but the entire country, then I might point out that certain Christian fundamentalists are victimizing our children in FAR greater numbers and impact than the mere thousands of Scilons.

Scientology (note I'm not talking about a corporation) like Christianity needs to be tolerated. It's part of the equation for having personal freedom.

Well, we're talking about Scientology and its abuses, and I don't think they should get a pass because someone else victimizes children too. (I don't know about the issue to do with the Texas School Board's influence.) I don't think that Christian victimizers should get away with victimizing others because they do it as a religious practice any more than Scientologists should be able get away with their victimization for the same reason, or for any reason. Or for that matter that Scientologists should get away with victimizing good wogs because these Scientologists also criticize David Miscavige, or "corporate Scientology."
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Adherence/Promotion of KSW is to my mind a iron-clad indication of support for Hubbard's cult vision and evidence that the person(s) is self-blinded by their beliefs. Beliefs for which there is ample evidence available to a rational individual to give up such beliefs.

Belief that Scientology's "Bridge" is the only road out is clearly false due to the fact that no one that has traveled said road has ever gotten "out". Not one Scientologist living on Earth can come forward and demonstrate that they can move a single ashtray let alone moving an automobile without the engine running (gee think of all the money you'll save on gas when you are OT, you can just push your car around with beams!)

Their tech does not make one cause over matter energy space time and thought. I will say that I think that many of the processes can be helpful in unraveling parts of a person's mind that in their own estimation affect them adversely. That is why I refuse to decry processing in general.

What a Scientologist has to understand is that Hubbard had his own unstated agenda. An agenda that no one in their right mind would support. Many people got involved in Scn taking his public statements at face value. Many worked hard to develop methods that would help a person free themselves of unwanted mental mechanisms. Help was the assumed purpose. Help themselves, help mankind. That this intent was misdirected and went astray is not surprising given Hubbards intentions of self-aggrandizement, lust for power and paranoid schizophrenia and the general state of human shortcomings most all of us exhibit.

It is my opinion that to give up on the stated intent is not the moral of the story that we should take from this failed attempt. Rather, take it as another learning experience in the long history of humanity. The idea that we are spiritual beings, that we have a mind that is both fantastically useful and the source for our strife are ideas that will continue on and there will be those that attempt to find better understanding and help others sort out their self-created mental machinery.

It is not a matter of stripping out the bullshit in Scientology, but taking a step back, and taking a fresh approach. A few have done that, and none of them call it Scientology. Scientology is a static booby-trapped mind-field. To follow KSW is to believe the lie that Hubbard figured it all out. He didn't. Most of the "tech" of Scientology is superfluous, an edifice of complexity. It isn't complex. It just appears to be complex and Hubbard got lost in his own complexities. Those that blindly follow Hubbard have become lost in them as well.

Here's to them pulling their head out and taking a look.
 
Caroline,

Did you really just write a KR on the Church of Scientology for promoting squirreling in the Free Zone so as to mess up Scientologists' cases?

:hysterical:

Girlfriend, you are straining so hard you're going to have a hernia!

Instead, go post this 'breaking news' on the iScientology.org blog where Steve Hall and his buddies may actually give a shit.

TG1

Is that really a KR (in the cult sense) anymore than any other critics posts on what is going on?

Caroline does not see ESMB members as "ethics" officers" does she? To me it looks like very interesting information about aspects of the way the cult abuses people, controls people and controls FZ/Indies. She also suggests that FZ/Indies should be concerned about the fact that the COS/OSA has them so well controlled that they may be USING the FZ/Indies to screw people up even MORE than they do inside the COS. What is wrong with pointing that out???????
 
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TG1

Angelic Poster
Is that really a KR (in the cult sense) anymore than any other critics posts on what is going on?

Caroline does not see ESMB members as "ethics" officers" does she? To me it looks like very interesting information about aspects of the way the cult abuses people, controls people and controls FZ/Indies. She also suggests that FZ/Indies should be concerned about the fact that the COS/OSA has them so well controlled that they may be USING the GFZ?Indies to screw people up even MORE than than do inside the COS. What is wrong with pointing that out???????


To tell you the truth, I found Caroline's post (the one in which she quoted iScientology.org guru Steve Hall as her intelligence source) so circularly illogical that I almost couldn't make sense of it.

And no, I don't think Caroline has ESMB confused with thousands of ethics officers.

Her post just sounded to me like she was feigning yet another outraged hissy fit in service to this never-ending bitchfest that now consumes half a dozen threads. But her latest hissy fit missed the mark because it was about something that's so obvious it hardly deserves any keystrokes, i.e., that the Church of Scientology screws around any way it can with enterprises and individuals who compete with the CoS for revenue. I also found Caroline's concern for FZ and independent Scientologists who, thanks to the CoS's infiltrations, might not be receiving standard Scientology, just fucking hilarious.

But I find a lot of things fucking hilarious that other people find fucking deadly serious.

TG1
 
To tell you the truth, I found Caroline's post (the one in which she quoted iScientology.org guru Steve Hall as her intelligence source) so circularly illogical that I almost couldn't make sense of it.

And no, I don't think Caroline has ESMB confused with thousands of ethics officers.

Her post just sounded to me like she was feigning yet another outraged hissy fit in service to this never-ending bitchfest that now consumes half a dozen threads. But her latest hissy fit missed the mark because it was about something that's so obvious it hardly deserves any keystrokes, i.e., that the Church of Scientology screws around any way it can with enterprises and individuals who compete with the CoS for revenue. I also found Caroline's concern for FZ and independent Scientologists who, thanks to the CoS's infiltrations, might not be receiving standard Scientology, just fucking hilarious.

But I find a lot of things fucking hilarious that other people find fucking deadly serious.

TG1

Ok, then, we seem to have different perceptions about Carolines post...almost like 'hearing' it differently. You mention 'hissy fit' etc. I don't sense any of that at all, but I'll go back and read it. There have been times where I have sensed a tone in posters' writing which I thought was somewhere between bad and obnoxious (not Caroline or Karen), and yet it seemed to inspire great affection in people here. Funny world.
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Has anyone followed up on Steve Hall's report regarding this protection racket?



Why should anyone automatically disbelieve what Steve Hall wrote in a private Indie FB discussion? We must stand up for the exiting Scientologists whose cases (psyches) are already admittedly messed up and risk getting further, willfully messed up.

According to Hall's report, there are people so malicious that they want exiting Scientologists to be messed up. And clearly some Scientology practitioners profit from "repairing" such abuse. But where does the APIS/IFA and their certified practitioners stand on this issue? Did they not investigate Hall's claims?

And even though they know about this op, we get silence from Rathbun, Rinder, et al., and, as everyone knows, silence on huge issues, like fair game on the Scientologists' wog victims. And, as even Hall says, this silence serves OSA/RTC/Miscavige.

This is hearsay. Steve Hall was told by some OSA person that this was OSA's plot. This was while Steve was still in the SO. So that information has to be taken with a grain of salt. Here is my take on it. Given that OSA has not been able to control the freezone they need to be seen by their peers as "doing their job" so he concocts this lie. When did they last sue a splinter group/individual? Was David Mayo's ACC the last?

Where do they(APIS) stand on the issue? I think it would be a no-brainer to those that believe in delivering "standardly" that it would be the utmost violation of a person's integrity, which is why I find it hard to believe the story. But there are people walking this earth that have no integrity to speak of, so I can't rule out the possibility.

That OSA would do such a thing, as another poster has already said, is a despicable notion, but we do have evidence that OSA is quite capable of doing the despicable.

Why don't you ask Steve Hall for more specifics?

From what I see in the FZ, they are a herd of cats. APIS has no power to do much of anything. They certainly are no RTC. No manpower or $ resources to play enforcers of the purity of the "tech".

Injecting this "protection racket" meme seems like an operation in and of itself. No need for it to be true, just stir up a shitstorm with the assertion alone.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
What about Jehovah's Witnesses? What about Mormons? What other freedom to decide do you think you are qualified to impose on the rest of the world?
<snip...>

I'm sure someone will get around to them once the Would-be Rulers of How We Think finally get everyone thinking "straight" about the so-called right to believe as you see fit. Stay tuned. :biggrin:

Okay, thanks.


I knew Karen was practicing Scientology on people long before I saw that the IFA was promoting her as an APIS/IFA certified auditor. Promoting and delivering Scientology has victimized thousands and thousands of people.
In the CofS, yes. Outside of it, not so much. :)
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
I can't wait until the "rulers of think" get around to the Christians. That should be a riot.

"You cannot practice Christianity because your scripture contains really mean stuff about killing people and the proof of that is the millions that have died over the last 2000 years in the name of Jesus Christ. We will not allow it, even if you say you don't do that anymore."

Once they've handled the Christians then they can start on the Muslims. Now there's a challenge!
 
I can't wait until the "rulers of think" get around to the Christians. That should be a riot.

"You cannot practice Christianity because your scripture contains really mean stuff about killing people and the proof of that is the millions that have died over the last 2000 years in the name of Jesus Christ. We will not allow it, even if you say you don't do that anymore."

Once they've handled the Christians then they can start on the Muslims. Now there's a challenge!

Sure both of those religions may be based on a universe created by a serial killing, rapist, and deadbeat father, who has the emotional intellect of a five year old child ... but you have to understand he did it all because he loves us so much
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Who killed more people, God or Satan?

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com.au/2006/08/who-has-killed-more-satan-or-god.html

But you're right, he loves us soooo much.

Well, there is no doubt that various distorted and fanatical interpretive "beliefs" in GOD have resulted in the real torturing and deaths of a great many more human beings than the similar "beliefs" in Satan. In other words, people have abused their fellow Man to a far greater degree due to a belief in some God than due to a belief in some evil divine antithesis.

Since I consider the bible to be not much more than fairy tales, with little or no historical basis, any deaths attributed to "God" or Satan are not much different than discussing how many unicorns existed at different points in the far distant past. :confused2:
 
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