Priest-Penitent Privilege in all forms of Scientology

Well, there is no doubt that various distorted and fanatical interpretive "beliefs" in GOD have resulted in the real torturing and deaths of a great many more human beings than the similar "beliefs" in Satan. In other words, people have abused their fellow Man to a far greater degree due to a belief in some God than due to a belief in some evil divine antithesis.

Since I consider the bible to be not much more than fairy tales, with little or no historical basis, any deaths attributed to "God" or Satan are not much different than discussing how many unicorns existed at different points in the far distant past. :confused2:
This is just me, but I'd rather be counting unicorns than having someone running down the aisle of a airplane I'm on with a bomb strapped to his back, because he's convinced that's what God wants him to do.
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, there is no doubt that various distorted and fanatical interpretive "beliefs" in GOD have resulted in the real torturing and deaths of a great many more human beings than the similar "beliefs" in Satan. In other words, people have abused their fellow Man to a far greater degree due to a belief in some God than due to a belief in some evil divine antithesis.

Since I consider the bible to be not much more than fairy tales, with little or no historical basis, any deaths attributed to "God" or Satan are not much different than discussing how many unicorns existed at different points in the far distant past. :confused2:

Well in their minds those with God on their side were killing the evil ones.

The biblical concept of God is so illogical and truly an affront to any proper concept of the divine if you spend a few minutes thinking about it.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well in their minds those with God on their side were killing the evil ones.

The biblical concept of God is so illogical and truly an affront to any proper concept of the divine if you spend a few minutes thinking about it.

I like Hermes description HERE and

If God is on our side he will stop the next war.

[video=youtube;PnRdsSC3YwM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnRdsSC3YwM[/video]

"So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war."
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Not my cup of tea either Arnie.

This creation is perfect. To claim otherwise is to spit in God's face so to speak. So it's just as it should be. We are but players on a stage. When you step off the stage and sit in the audience it becomes quite clear that everything is ultimately just fine & dandy. Anthropomorphizing god is a mistake.
 
I like Hermes description HERE and

If God is on our side he will stop the next war.

[video=youtube;PnRdsSC3YwM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnRdsSC3YwM[/video]

"So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war."
It always blows my mind how the soldiers on both sides of the battlefield are convinced God is on their side, when in reality if God was on their side, they'd be kicking back on the beach with a Margarita in their hand, instead of being crammed in a foxhole with guys who haven't showered in months as bullets whiz over their heads.
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm sure someone will get around to them once the Would-be Rulers of How We Think finally get everyone thinking "straight" about the so-called right to believe as you see fit. Stay tuned. :biggrin:


In the CofS, yes. Outside of it, not so much. :)

How do you know this?

They're delivering the Purif and rehab in the freezone.

And the whole host of LRHs other earth shattering breakthroughs, too.

No oversight, no responsibility.

Put it this way - that place up in Washington or Idaho is already bigger than the dead ideal orgs.

So while you like to support protests at ideal orgs, you ignore the freezone.

Care to reconsider your "not so much"?
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Nope. :biggrin:

I was responding to a specific statement by Caroline, ie "Promoting and delivering Scientology has victimized thousands and thousands of people." To which I responded, "In the CofS, yes. Outside of it, not so much.
smile.png
"

If you think the Freezone/Indies are "victimizing [or even dealing with] thousands and thousands of people" I'd wonder where you got such an idea.

BTW, I don't actually ignore the Freezone (except that I do, usually) but I wouldn't hesitate to speak out against any abuse or criminality where it to exist. Is there something specific happening in the FZ that you think needs protesting?
 
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This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
If someone in the freezone helps their clients relieve themselves of their whole track unicorn and fairie overts, I might think its pretty crazy, but not a major issue.

Trashing people's livers with quack mega doses of vitamins is irresponsible and dangerous.

What's the difference between a NN and a freezone Purif center?

What do freezoners do about client dependence?

I've never heard any of them or their Guru Ron talk about TOO much auditing.

Do freezoners follow his other bat-shit crazy ideas like taking people off of Dr proscribed medicines? Like epilepsy medications? They do that at Flag, Scio orgs and even NNs.

Do freezoners tell their clients that "it's just your bank talking and the process will turn it off" when the person expresses paranoia, depression, suicidal thoughts - just like they do in the church?

If we spent a little time on this, we could come up with tens or hundreds of examples where abuse of the client will occur is Hubbard tech is followed - in the freezone, not even in the Church.

I'm getting the idea that many people believe that Hubbard tech is harmless or at least less liable to be harmful when practiced in the freezone.

That may be true, but there are a lot of potential accidents and abuses just waiting to happen.
 
Trashing people's livers with quack mega doses of vitamins is irresponsible and dangerous.

What's the difference between a NN and a freezone Purif center?

What do freezoners do about client dependence?

Do freezoners follow his other bat-shit crazy ideas like taking people off of Dr proscribed medicines? Like epilepsy medications? They do that at Flag, Scio orgs and even NNs.

+1

http://community.freezone-tech.info...-notes-to-our-first-detox-program-completion/
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
If someone in the freezone helps their clients relieve themselves of their whole track unicorn and fairie overts, I might think its pretty crazy, but not a major issue.

Trashing people's livers with quack mega doses of vitamins is irresponsible and dangerous.

What's the difference between a NN and a freezone Purif center?

What do freezoners do about client dependence?

I've never heard any of them or their Guru Ron talk about TOO much auditing.

Do freezoners follow his other bat-shit crazy ideas like taking people off of Dr proscribed medicines? Like epilepsy medications? They do that at Flag, Scio orgs and even NNs.

Do freezoners tell their clients that "it's just your bank talking and the process will turn it off" when the person expresses paranoia, depression, suicidal thoughts - just like they do in the church?

If we spent a little time on this, we could come up with tens or hundreds of examples where abuse of the client will occur is Hubbard tech is followed - in the freezone, not even in the Church.

I'm getting the idea that many people believe that Hubbard tech is harmless or at least less liable to be harmful when practiced in the freezone.

That may be true, but there are a lot of potential accidents and abuses just waiting to happen.
All good questions and observations! :thumbsup:

You'd need to ask a FZer if you want real answers but, IMO, you raise some excellent points and FZers/Indies would do well to consider them.

Of course, many people do many odd things which are considered harmful to their own well-being, at least by others not involved in doing those things.

Consenting adults and all that. :)
 

Andtheyalllived

Patron with Honors
All good questions and observations! :thumbsup:

You'd need to ask a FZer if you want real answers but, IMO, you raise some excellent points and FZers/Indies would do well to consider them.

Of course, many people do many odd things which are considered harmful to their own well-being, at least by others not involved in doing those things.

Consenting adults and all that. :)

To clarify: Is it "consenting adults/buyer beware" once someone's out of COS and into FZ?
Yet we are protective of the brainwashing/ mindF if someone presents as "still in."
Is the FZ, in all of it's incarnations so trustworthy?
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
But you give them the benefit of the doubt. This Is Not OK gave some great reasons why it isn't unreasonable to worry about what makes the FZ so much safer than COS.

Lol. You're assuming that I think that. I liked TINOK's post and acknowledged the excellence of it in my response.

I'm not aware of many instances of people being abused or harmed by the FZ/Indies. I've read of some instances, of course.

I don't give anybody a free pass when it comes to abuse or criminality but neither do I assume that such abuse and criminality go hand in hand with the practice of scientology.

Abuse and criminality is, of course, ingrained in the practices of the Church Of Scientology and it's entities (Narconon, WISE etc), I'm not so sure that it is ingrained in the type of scientology most common in FZ/Indie practice. Do you have some reason to believe it is?
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
To clarify: Is it "consenting adults/buyer beware" once someone's out of COS and into FZ?
Yet we are protective of the brainwashing/ mindF if someone presents as "still in."
Is the FZ, in all of it's incarnations so trustworthy?


I'm not totally getting the assumption that everyone who gets FZ auditing/services is in the "consenting adults" category.

We're talking about a group's religious beliefs, and mental health services, not a swinger's club.

FZ members have kids, don't they?

So, their kids would get FZ services, correct?

I googled "Freezone auditing children".

Here are three of the links that came up.


http://www.freezoneamerica.org/electra/exm41.html

http://www.exscientologykids.com/es...?p=18075&sid=d069eb3655154a8aed5fd55109f38803

http://internationalfreezone.net/ian-waxler.shtml



There were lots more.


This is not an opinion as to whether the services are good or bad.

Just that children do receive them.
 
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