Probably Cannot Be Emphasized Enough....

Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
Mostly for the newly out:


Tech Development
"Jack Horner developed and piloted the repetitive processes.
Nib's, Dick and Jan Halpern developed the TR's and CCH's.
Charles and Ava Berner developed and brought the Study Tech to LRH.
Gordon Bell defined By-passed charge. I developed the original BPC List corrections.
Gordon Bell put the Grades together.
John McMasters and I developed and piloted the S&D data.
John McMasters developed Power.
Pam Kemp originated the drug rundown.
I (Alan Walter) originated the Good and Bad indicators."


http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?17164-Keeping-Alan-C-Walter-In-View/page78
 

Chris Shelton

Patron with Honors
Were Nibs and the Halperns aware they were developing hypnotic techniques? Hubbard had nothing to do with this?
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Gordon recalled a funny story about the Bypassed Charge. He threw that out off the top of his head.

Excerpt from IRC chat. Druid is Gordon.

Q: Do you have any LRH stories to tell?
Druid: [LRH was ] either stoned on cocaine or his own evil.

Druid: yeah, Blubbard stole the idea of "bypassed frigg'n charge" from me.
Q: Are you serious? You came up with "bypassed charge"?
Druid: As far as I've since been able to grok, Blubbard wasn't even a freewill spiritual being.
Druid: was just a shade projection from the lower astral darkness.
Druid: Yes, I came up with so-called "bypassed charge"
Q: How did you come up with it? What made you think of that term?

Druid: oh gawhd, goes back to St. Hill in the early 60s when we were "researching" the illusion called "goals".
Druid: We were doing rather well, too. "We" being the St. Hill students.
Druid: But Blubbard couldn't stand it.
Druid: It drove him bonkers to think that a "thetan" might find his/her own goals, [ and ] run the charge off of them,
Druid: and become more powerful than Blubbard!!!
Druid: so he stopped it all!
Q: damn druid, you never told me that
Druid: and changed the whole line to "implants"
Q: What do you mean he stopped it all?
Druid: well, I protested, fucking LOUDLY!!!!!
Druid: like I was ready to take Herbie Parkhouse and Blubbard both on.
Druid: physically!
Druid: in physical battle.
Druid: Well, it became Herbie's job to "handle" me.
Druid: and he was doing a terrible job of it. LOL.
Druid: anyhow, I was "handling" myself.
Druid: and finally I tells ol' Herbie:
Druid: "It's just by-passed charge from my own goals."
Druid: and at that herbie, who was the auditing supervisor at St. Hill at the time
Druid: suddenly shut up and listened.
Druid: and I told him about by-passed charge.
Druid: lol
Q: So the concept of auditing goals became implants? Inverse.
Druid: I should have copyrighted it on the spot!!!
Druid: anyhow, Herbie writes all this down and runs off to his puppetmaster The Blubbard
Druid: next thing you know "by-passed charge" auditing is introduced.
Q: Interesting story, Druid.
Druid: Yeah. Blubbard introduced his cocaine-invented "Helatrobus Implants".
 

Anonycat

Crusader
More:

Druid: I first touched the scienoturds in 1956.
Druid: David Mayo invented NOTS.
Q: Yes, I knew that.
Druid: There were some other inventions i came up with too. Forget what they were.
Druid: John McMaster put the Clearing Course together.
Druid: Alan Walters did a whole mess of stuff.
Druid: I think alan did all the auditing by lists carrying on.
Druid: I tried hard, to be a true believer. Well, I very succeeded in being a true pretender...like everyone else.
Druid: Dust is a baby compared to my age.
Yes, therein lies the catch.
Druid: I am more ancient than the Ancient of Days.
Q:At least you've maintained a sense of humor about it all.
Druid: Well, i had a humungous spiritual revelation about 11 years ago and have never been the same since.
Q: Tell me.
Druid: I had no withdrawel pains from the cult.
Druid: Well, I did the whole entire goddamn worthless ass so-called 'bridge'.
Q: Neither did I, except wondering what might happen with my children in the future.
Druid: and I knew I had not even scratched the surface of true spirit.
Druid: and I know of another technology, called "meditation"
Druid: Well, I had seen statues and pics of The Buddha off and on, and he was always in meditation
Q: Yes, and seeking to live with an attitude of love.
Druid: and I'd wonder, What in the world is he doing in there?
Druid: So I sat down and started doing what I thought he as doing.
Druid: That! was the most spiritually correct thing i ever did up to that time.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Mostly for the newly out:


Tech Development
"Jack Horner developed and piloted the repetitive processes.
Nib's, Dick and Jan Halpern developed the TR's and CCH's.
Charles and Ava Berner developed and brought the Study Tech to LRH.
Gordon Bell defined By-passed charge. I developed the original BPC List corrections.
Gordon Bell put the Grades together.
John McMasters and I developed and piloted the S&D data.
John McMasters developed Power. who developed
Pam Kemp originated the drug rundown.
I (Alan Walter) originated the Good and Bad indicators."


http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?17164-Keeping-Alan-C-Walter-In-View/page78

Who developed Objectives (Op pro by dup)? Jack Horner?
 

Gib

Crusader
Were Nibs and the Halperns aware they were developing hypnotic techniques? Hubbard had nothing to do with this?

Nibs said something like he developed the CCH's or TR's because he was tired of students not following his directions.

I forget the reference now. I believe it was a court case where he said this.

Hubbard was a true believer in his own shit. And he tried thru any means possible to get others to believe in his shit as well. He used all the literally devices possible under the sun, moon and stars. He said first and foremost he was a writer and tried to the very end to be right. Build me a emeter that will get rid of the last BT as he told Sarge.

http://literary-devices.com/

And a friend pointed out to me this literary device:

http://literarydevices.net/verisimilitude/

"In a literary work, verisimilitude is likeness to the truth i.e. resemblance of a fictitious work to a real event even if it is a far-fetched one.

Verisimilitude ensures that even a fantasy must be rooted in reality, which means that events should be plausible to the extent that readers consider them credible enough to be able to relate them somehow to their experiences of real life."
 
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Chris Shelton

Patron with Honors
Nibs said something like he developed the CCH's or TR's because he was tired of students not following his directions.

Thanks Gib, but this doesn't really answer my question. Waiting for Dave B to come back on this one. I'm very curious about what he knows about this.
 

Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
Thanks Gib, but this doesn't really answer my question. Waiting for Dave B to come back on this one. I'm very curious about what he knows about this.

I know what I read on ESMB. There is a metric shit-ton of great info here (a new measurement I just made up) If you dig for it. But to answer your question. I don't know.

Reading the Opening Pandora's Box thread really accelerated my throwing off the $cientology mental shackles. Newly out's and even been out for awhiles may not know the true history of "techq" development and have residual Hubbard is an Infallible Demi-god programming stuck in place still.

Knowing he was just a marketer, conman, plagerist and in some cases outright thief (Study Tech) should help people to see the ugly truth about Hubbard and his kult.

He was pretty much the little man behind the curtain like in The Wizard of Oz.
 
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Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Were Nibs and the Halperns aware they were developing hypnotic techniques? Hubbard had nothing to do with this?

Years of reading and research have led me to believe that initially ol' Flubber-Hubbard knew exactly what he was up to, no matter what claims are made of him in his later years (like swatting at BT's etc. etc.), I think he drove himself crazier and crazier over the years, that schmell of money & control driving him on into even deeper depths of woo and dementia, the monster grew legs.
Legs, arms, tentacles, pits of despair, a smoke and mirror kingdom built on the backs of many well-meaning peoples.
The conclusion I came to a long time ago is that Hubbard knew the mechanisms of the 'long con', and applied them very successfully, from his mind-replacement tech, right up to getting rid of those no longer worthy to give to his glorious cause (saving the planet lolol, sheesh).
Nibs knew what was going on (and his (redacted under duress/circumstances) testimony at the CW hearings, go look it up if not aware), dad taught him the ropes, there was never any doubt that it all revolved around making money, and making more money: Liberating people from their horrible MEST trappings, and making them feel accomplished in his imaginary and contrived confabulation. For those who questioned the validity? Go die, lose your immortality/eternity, blah-blah-blah.
Yuck.

:grouch:

Mini-rant....... done.


:coolwink:
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Years of reading and research have led me to believe that initially ol' Flubber-Hubbard knew exactly what he was up to, no matter what claims are made of him in his later years (like swatting at BT's etc. etc.), I think he drove himself crazier and crazier over the years, that schmell of money & control driving him on into even deeper depths of woo and dementia, the monster grew legs.
Legs, arms, tentacles, pits of despair, a smoke and mirror kingdom built on the backs of many well-meaning peoples.
The conclusion I came to a long time ago is that Hubbard knew the mechanisms of the 'long con', and applied them very successfully, from his mind-replacement tech, right up to getting rid of those no longer worthy to give to his glorious cause (saving the planet lolol, sheesh).
Nibs knew what was going on (and his (redacted under duress/circumstances) testimony at the CW hearings, go look it up if not aware), dad taught him the ropes, there was never any doubt that it all revolved around making money, and making more money: Liberating people from their horrible MEST trappings, and making them feel accomplished in his imaginary and contrived confabulation. For those who questioned the validity? Go die, lose your immortality/eternity, blah-blah-blah.
Yuck.

:grouch:

Mini-rant....... done.


:coolwink:

I agree. I don't think he believed a word of his crap.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I agree. I don't think he believed a word of his crap.

This is an issue that has had me perplexed from the start; so much so that I started a thread about it. It's here.

I was going to say that he started out as a con-man plain and simple, but then, when he saw the effect he was having on tens of thousand of others, actually began to believe his own bullshit to the point where by OT VIII he believed he was the Antichrist.

But. In the very early days, there's that tape he made with him and Mary Sue in an auditing session talking about disembodied spirits, and, hogwash or not, they both seem fully committed to the idea.

I'm still as confused as ever.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Were Nibs and the Halperns aware they were developing hypnotic techniques? Hubbard had nothing to do with this?

GP, you ask a difficult question. Hypnosis and Scientology were intertwined. Hubbard never told anyone these were hypnotic techniques or had an hypnotic effect - it was part of his stage show.

Nibs was aware his father was all about control, and Scn was everything about controlling others, getting them to do what you want. 'Do as thou wilt'

Nibs witnessed Hubbard doing hynosis. I believe he also personally experienced it (but it's been a while since I've read his book).

So yes, Nibs was aware hypnosis and control were intrinsic in Scientology. I don't think Nibs was capable of separating the two, they were one and the same. It was what he grew up with and knew and he was young. He followed his dad's orders. So did everyone. If Hubbard wanted a way to control people better, he'd ask someone to come up with it, phrased in terms like 'helping these poor devils who can't even follow directions'. They'd use Scientology techniques. The Scns didn't know it was based on hypnosis because they were also brainwashed and hypnotized themselves to believe in the whole scam of it. They had to learn to think with and around the loop-de-loops of insane thinking Hubbard gave them.

Here's an example: How about the original and five copies of invoices ridiculous cumbersome filing system. Why? Because Hubbard didn't like double entry bookkeeping 'cause he didn't understand it. (True! He just rages against it on tapes.) Paper, paper paper. Oh Hub loved his paper records. But the whole purpose of it was to PROVE that he didn't need accountants or double-entry bookkeeping because he didn't like it because he didn't understand it. So poor Marilyn Rutsong (sp?) had to come up with a way to do this without double-entry that allowed Hub to have all his copies for letters from C/F, his consecutive series copy, his copies sorted by department, etc. He ordered it. She wasn't stupid, she was ordered to do something stupid and did the best she could with it and believed it wasn't stupid because Hubbard said so and she was a brainwashed follower herself.
 

Gib

Crusader
This is an issue that has had me perplexed from the start; so much so that I started a thread about it. It's here.

I was going to say that he started out as a con-man plain and simple, but then, when he saw the effect he was having on tens of thousand of others, actually began to believe his own bullshit to the point where by OT VIII he believed he was the Antichrist.

But. In the very early days, there's that tape he made with him and Mary Sue in an auditing session talking about disembodied spirits, and, hogwash or not, they both seem fully committed to the idea.

I'm still as confused as ever.

IMHO, I think Hubbard actually believed he found the greatest thing since the invention of Fire or the wheel, his theory of engrams, secondaries and locks, and tried to prove it all the while building an organization or crowd. Don't forget he told Sarge he failed. And he did.

I think Hubbard actually hypnotized himself or convinced himself, if you will, into believing this, that he was the Saviour of mankind, and he used every trick in the book to get people involved all the while trying to make it go right, and at the end he said he failed. Every trick in the book includes every literally device, rhetoric, sublime rhetoric, PR & Marketing, character assassination, etc.

Unfortunately, using every trick in the book created mindless fanatics, if you will, towards scientology for the cause. As McMaster said, auditing could have been a beautiful thing, but hubbard corrupted it. (I'm not advocating auditing now, just pointing out what McMaster said).

Hubbard believed the Emeter was true and his theories of thoughts having mass. But he was wrong, his analysis was incorrect, IMHO.

See, for me, how could he do what he did, as far as writing all the policies, advices, HCOB's etc, how could he do that if it was a con from the get go. But, it is a con in the sense that there are no clears or OT's.

What pisses me off is DM. That fucker probably knows that there are no clears or OT's and he has perpetuated the con.
 

Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
GP, you ask a difficult question. Hypnosis and Scientology were intertwined. Hubbard never told anyone these were hypnotic techniques or had an hypnotic effect - it was part of his stage show.

Nibs was aware his father was all about control, and Scn was everything about controlling others, getting them to do what you want. 'Do as thou wilt'

Nibs witnessed Hubbard doing hynosis. I believe he also personally experienced it (but it's been a while since I've read his book).

So yes, Nibs was aware hypnosis and control were intrinsic in Scientology. I don't think Nibs was capable of separating the two, they were one and the same. It was what he grew up with and knew and he was young. He followed his dad's orders. So did everyone. If Hubbard wanted a way to control people better, he'd ask someone to come up with it, phrased in terms like 'helping these poor devils who can't even follow directions'. They'd use Scientology techniques. The Scns didn't know it was based on hypnosis because they were also brainwashed and hypnotized themselves to believe in the whole scam of it. They had to learn to think with and around the loop-de-loops of insane thinking Hubbard gave them.

Here's an example: How about the original and five copies of invoices ridiculous cumbersome filing system. Why? Because Hubbard didn't like double entry bookkeeping 'cause he didn't understand it. (True! He just rages against it on tapes.) Paper, paper paper. Oh Hub loved his paper records. But the whole purpose of it was to PROVE that he didn't need accountants or double-entry bookkeeping because he didn't like it because he didn't understand it. So poor Marilyn Rutsong (sp?) had to come up with a way to do this without double-entry that allowed Hub to have all his copies for letters from C/F, his consecutive series copy, his copies sorted by department, etc. He ordered it. She wasn't stupid, she was ordered to do something stupid and did the best she could with it and believed it wasn't stupid because Hubbard said so and she was a brainwashed follower herself.


No doubt. And Hubbard would then come out with a PL about his fabulous break-though in book keeping that the dumb wogs have overlooked... yada yada yada.

HH could you do the green on white Pl in that goofy $ci. style for me? The shit almost writes itself.
 

Gib

Crusader
No doubt. And Hubbard would then come out with a PL about his fabulous break-though in book keeping that the dumb wogs have overlooked... yada yada yada.

HH could you do the green on white Pl in that goofy $ci. style for me? The shit almost writes itself.

Hubbard said the way to handle the IRS or Tax Laws was to assign the significance before the IRS does. For example, if you are the owner of a business and you have an expense, why say the expense is car expense as long as the expense is similar if you know what I mean.

If you think about it, LRH eventually assigned the significance of Scientology as being a religion. And DM eventually got the IRS to believe this significance, which us exmembers know is BS. And that's why Veda rails against anybody saying scientology is a religion, it's forwarding the BS significance.
 
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