Project - Scientology and Gays and Lesbians

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hi all,

A few anons are working on a project to communicate the attitudes of organised Scientology toward gays and lesbians. June is a big month for gay pride festivals and marches. We want to put out something truthful about how the CoS treats gays and lesbians.

We have the most obvious quotations about homosexuality and lesbianism being aberrant and what should happen to those lower than 2 on the tone scale.

We're going to do something with the stories of Michael Pattinson (ExOT8Michael) and Quentin Hubbard.

We'd really like to update the information to include more recent examples of how gays and lesbians have been treated by the CoS. So, if anyone would like their experience to be a part of this project, we'd love to hear from you. You can either PM me here or email [email protected] or [email protected]

Also, if you guys would like to give any advice to us on how to approach this subject, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks.
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
One of the areas I'm researching is the use of "sec checks" specifically for gays. I'd be grateful for any references you can provide.

Also, I'd be very keen to chat with anyone who has experience, whether as the auditor or the person being audited, to help me understand what was the official practice.

I realise this is not easy stuff to talk about, and I haven't been here long enough to establish any bona fides, so I understand if no one is keen to talk. But, I'd be silly not to lay out the invitation. So, here it is.

<3 C
 

Wisened One

Crusader
I think in the Science of Survival book there is some more info on what Blubbard thought of gays....in the 1.1 section, I believe....:eyeroll:
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks, Wisened. I'm reading through it now.

Also, I've discovered that there's a significant HCOPL first issued 9th July 1980, reissued 20th October 1985, called ETHICS, JUSTICE AND THE DYNAMICS.

An excerpt:


Let us look at the all-too-common current occurence of out-ethics on the second dynamic. This is generally thought to be perfectly acceptable behavior.

It must be noted however that promiscuity, perversion, sadism, free love, homosexuality and other irregular practices fall far below an acceptable level of ethics. A society which falls into this category can be expected to abuse sex, be promiscuous, to misuse and maltreat children and to act, in short, much in the way current cultures are acting.

People who are at this level on the second dynamic are intensily dangerous in the society since aberation is contagious.

Now, many (most) of the HCOPL's are published in the OEC volumes. But, Volume 15 stops at 1984, before this one was re-issued. So, I'm wondering where to find it.

Also, I've learnt that the HCOPL was revised again (squirrelly-fashion) on 25 March 89 and that section was removed. Ideally, I'm looking for a scan of the HCOPL dated between 85 and 89 (or a scan of the section of the book "Introduction to Scientology Ethics" dated between 85 and 89 before the squirrelling.

If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd be most grateful.
What are my chances?
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks, Wisened. I'm reading through it now.

Also, I've discovered that there's a significant HCOPL first issued 9th July 1980, reissued 20th October 1985, called ETHICS, JUSTICE AND THE DYNAMICS.

An excerpt:




Now, many (most) of the HCOPL's are published in the OEC volumes. But, Volume 15 stops at 1984, before this one was re-issued. So, I'm wondering where to find it.

Also, I've learnt that the HCOPL was revised again (squirrelly-fashion) on 25 March 89 and that section was removed. Ideally, I'm looking for a scan of the HCOPL dated between 85 and 89 (or a scan of the section of the book "Introduction to Scientology Ethics" dated between 85 and 89 before the squirrelling.

If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd be most grateful.
What are my chances?

I recommend that you look for the older green volumes. One's that were first issued or the oldest you can find. The volumes that existed prior to the culling of out PR policies.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
The original " Ethics justice and the dynamics" came after original green vols and before new ones.

Don't know if there has ever been a specific sec check for gays etc. Bea Kiddo might know.

A few years ago there was a yahoo group for gay and lesbian scientologists. It was quite a large forum and is now iether very small or defunct. Also the " thetagroup" forum once the largest scientology forum is down to about a dozen members and seems only to host dating type mails
probably spam.

I can did out my various ethics books re EJATD. Later
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
I was SP declared (ex-communicated) for it! I have not been able to talk to my mother since May 04 because I was bi-curious!!!

I even still have the SP declare issue, and a copy of my Comm Ev....


------

I just found out from a friend that the church knows that I went to a protest. Talk about fanatics!!!

I went to see what Annonymous people were like! I did not hold any sign or anything. I just checked them out. I also said hello to them, and told a bit of my story. I guess the churchies across the street got a million or so snapshots and sent them to LA and whamoo!! I am a MAJOR SP now!!!! Yay.

Spreading that to friends? what for?

Are the churchies 5 year olds fighting for toys in a sandbox or what?!?! Grow up!!!
 

DCAnon

Silver Meritorious Patron
:omg: Sheesh, why do they care so freakin' much?

Bea, do you have a copy of that SP declare for being bi-curious you can scan in? That could be a damning piece of evidence.
 

auntpat

Patron with Honors
ANON

Readd Michael Patterson OT 8 story in personal stories. That may give you some insight.
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
I was SP declared (ex-communicated) for it! I have not been able to talk to my mother since May 04 because I was bi-curious!!!

I even still have the SP declare issue, and a copy of my Comm Ev....


------

I just found out from a friend that the church knows that I went to a protest. Talk about fanatics!!!

I went to see what Annonymous people were like! I did not hold any sign or anything. I just checked them out. I also said hello to them, and told a bit of my story. I guess the churchies across the street got a million or so snapshots and sent them to LA and whamoo!! I am a MAJOR SP now!!!! Yay.

Spreading that to friends? what for?

Are the churchies 5 year olds fighting for toys in a sandbox or what?!?! Grow up!!!


I am planning on doing the same thing to "get my feet wet" - did you have a mask or did you otherwise attempt to conceal your identity? Please tell me: what was it like? How long did you stay? PM if you wish, I am really curious.

That is funny. While still not completely out and going through nasty divorce I mentioned to my Mom I was thinking about only dating women after my disastrous ‘marriage’ :coolwink: – she said she would kick my *ss…. But no one threatened to declare me, of course I was very much off staff at the time. :D
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
I was SP declared (ex-communicated) for it! I have not been able to talk to my mother since May 04 because I was bi-curious!!!

I even still have the SP declare issue, and a copy of my Comm Ev....


------

I just found out from a friend that the church knows that I went to a protest. Talk about fanatics!!!

I went to see what Annonymous people were like! I did not hold any sign or anything. I just checked them out. I also said hello to them, and told a bit of my story. I guess the churchies across the street got a million or so snapshots and sent them to LA and whamoo!! I am a MAJOR SP now!!!! Yay.

Spreading that to friends? what for?

Are the churchies 5 year olds fighting for toys in a sandbox or what?!?! Grow up!!!

Bea - ZOMG on both counts!!

I can't PM you here, Bea, but you can PM me or email at xenuphobesatgmaildotcom if you're willing to tell your story, and/or make those docs public, or just to let me know either way. Your experience is very recent, which makes it uber-relevant.
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
The original " Ethics justice and the dynamics" came after original green vols and before new ones.

Don't know if there has ever been a specific sec check for gays etc. Bea Kiddo might know.

A few years ago there was a yahoo group for gay and lesbian scientologists. It was quite a large forum and is now iether very small or defunct. Also the " thetagroup" forum once the largest scientology forum is down to about a dozen members and seems only to host dating type mails
probably spam.

I can did out my various ethics books re EJATD. Later

Thanks for this info, Terril. I see that there is a yahoo group for gay sci's, currently with 46 members, although that doesn't indicate how many are active. I can't bring myself to attempt to join it, and their posts are members only, so I don't think I'll find out much there. I did see a comment by someone about the kinds of entries there and, at the time, which I think was 2005 (?) they read like PR statements.

Terril, I'd be most grateful if you could provide any of the relevant HCOPLs re EJATD.
 

FinallyMe

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think you will promote a lot of support for Scilons this way -- look at the various state laws passed recently and the "reasons" given for these laws - a LOT of people would agree with Hubbard on this issue. The pronouncement that homosexuality is immoral is a heavily religious message.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Computer dummy here.

How can I scan in my SP declare, but take out the names? (step by step idiot version please....)
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
Computer dummy here.

How can I scan in my SP declare, but take out the names? (step by step idiot version please....)
Bea, do you have a scanner?

Step 1. Get to a scanner. Scan it in as is and save the file.
Step 2. Open Microsoft Paint (Start/all programs/accessories/paint)
Step 3. Open the file within paint and save it as a jpg with a different name, so you're not messing around with the original.
Step 4. On the left-hand side of the paint program, there's a rectangle. Click on it.
Step 5. Using your left button on your mouse, draw a rectangle over only the words you want to remove (eg your name).
Step 6. Once you've got the rectangle in the right spot, release your mouse and you'll see a rectangle with a dotted border. Then right click inside the rectangle and select "Clear Selection".
Step 7. Repeat for any other bits you need to delete.
Step 8. Save the file.
Step 9. Rejoice in your accomplishment.
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think you will promote a lot of support for Scilons this way -- look at the various state laws passed recently and the "reasons" given for these laws - a LOT of people would agree with Hubbard on this issue. The pronouncement that homosexuality is immoral is a heavily religious message.
FinallyMe, thanks for making this point. I need to give this some more thought. My hope is that those who believe, for religious reasons, that homosexual acts are immoral, would nevertheless be deeply troubled by how Hubbard treated his son and how gay people have been treated by the CoS. Scientology doesn't stand out from other religions, unfortunately, on this issue. The Christian church has not done well to express love of gay people, obviously.

I suppose whatever position a group or church takes, one of the important things to the community generally is that they are at least honest. Perhaps that is what will speak to some of those who aren't sympathetic to gay people generally.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
I am planning on doing the same thing to "get my feet wet" - did you have a mask or did you otherwise attempt to conceal your identity? Please tell me: what was it like? How long did you stay? PM if you wish, I am really curious.

That is funny. While still not completely out and going through nasty divorce I mentioned to my Mom I was thinking about only dating women after my disastrous ‘marriage’ :coolwink: – she said she would kick my *ss…. But no one threatened to declare me, of course I was very much off staff at the time. :D

Hi Finally Free

I have been going to the demonstrations since Apr 08. The first time I was scared shitless (but wouldn't have missed it for the world). I got a mask beforehand and also a wig, and made sure I was masked before I got into the anon crowd.

Since that time I got much less scared and couldn't care less how many pictures they take of me unmasked. A couple of months ago I even made a videoed speech in front of the AOSH on the PA system unmasked.

I do not have family currently in Scn, so they do not have the disconnection threat over my head. Many exes are very scared of going to a demonstration or speaking out. Scientology instills this fear and it runs deep. There is nothing that blows this fear as fast as participating in a demonstration. So I say go. Mask up as much as you want to feel safe, but go. The vast majority of anons are wonderful people who are standing up for human rights and defending those who can't defend themselves. You will make many new friends.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
FinallyMe, thanks for making this point. I need to give this some more thought. My hope is that those who believe, for religious reasons, that homosexual acts are immoral, would nevertheless be deeply troubled by how Hubbard treated his son and how gay people have been treated by the CoS. Scientology doesn't stand out from other religions, unfortunately, on this issue. The Christian church has not done well to express love of gay people, obviously.

I suppose whatever position a group or church takes, one of the important things to the community generally is that they are at least honest. Perhaps that is what will speak to some of those who aren't sympathetic to gay people generally.

I think if you emphasize the "dispose of quietly and without sorrow" aspect you might gain much more support. There is considerable distance between those who consider homosexuality to be immoral and those that think people should be killed or otherwise ostracized for it.

Regarding the Scan. Wouldn't it be easier to stick a bit of post-it note over top of the names before you scan it? (From one computer dummy to another) That's what I would do.
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think if you emphasize the "dispose of quietly and without sorrow" aspect you might gain much more support. There is considerable distance between those who consider homosexuality to be immoral and those that think people should be killed or otherwise ostracized for it.

Regarding the Scan. Wouldn't it be easier to stick a bit of post-it note over top of the names before you scan it? (From one computer dummy to another) That's what I would do.
We will certainly make that point, Kooka. And you're right - that should shift those who consider the actions immoral, but who realise the huge chasm between that position and Hubbard's.

As for the post-it note - sheesh! Old tech!

:duh:
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
We will certainly make that point, Kooka. And you're right - that should shift those who consider the actions immoral, but who realise the huge chasm between that position and Hubbard's.

As for the post-it note - sheesh! Old tech!

:duh:

Well, that's what you get from us oldies! :lol:
 
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