PROOF: Miscavige knew about the beatings of others

Scn.Hun

Patron
According to the Church of Scientology's own online statements and videos, Church of Scientology Executives of the highest level (second in command) mentally and physically hurt, abused other executives and staff members on the International Headquarters of the Church of Scientology in Hemet, California for more than 20 years. Besides the ecclesiastical crimes they violated several State and Federal Laws.
Even after David Miscavige had learnt about this, they could remain in position for years. Miscavige denies that he beat anybody, but according to the Church own sites he knew about the beatings of others.


I collected these informations from COS sites, so beware of the links if you are afraid.
There are several inconsistencies, but the truth shines through. I put my remarks between square brackets.

So the proof:

1973 [Mike Rinder joins the Sea Org]
"In 1973, after attending high schools in Australia and England, Rinder worked for his now-deceased father in the wholesale grocery business. That same year, he joined the Church’s religious order, the Sea Organization, in Australia."
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/cnn/mike-rinder-a-walking-hate-crime.html

1976 [Marty Rathbun joins the Church of Scientology]
"Marty Rathbun joined the Church at the age of 19"
http://www.freedommag.org/special-r...mily-madness-mayhem-and-mysterious-death.html
http://whoismartyrathbun.com/articles/the-rathbun-family.html

1978 [Marty Rathbun joins the Church of Scientology, again]
"Mark Rathbun ... has been a church staff member since 1978."
http://web.archive.org/web/20010816174216/http://www.rtc.org/board/page01.htm

1982 [Mike Rinder is a bad person]
"I knew Mike Rinder for many years. In fact, he was my own senior when I first came to work in the Church of Scientology International in the United States in 1982. I was immediately struck by the fact that he was a vulgar individual who would mock others to make them feel ill at ease and especially those who were weaker and in a lower position than his own, particularly women. He was also vicious with junior staff, harassing them repeatedly. He was a bully who was polite to those senior to him and mean to those below him. My staff were scared of him, as they knew he was a two-faced person who could not be trusted.”
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/mark-marty-rathbun/declarations/
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/media-newsroom/anderson-coopers-last-gasp/

1984 [Marty Ratbun is an even worse person]
"I have known Marty Rathbun since 1984. In the entire time that I knew Rathbun as a Church staff member, which was from 1984 until he deserted the Church in 2004, he was always working either on external affairs of the Church or internal investigations, such as to find out why a project or program was overdue. He chronically fouled up legal and other external matters he was meant to handle and, on ethics matters within the Church. Rathbun would often use intimidation and physical violence, though the Scientology ethics codes are clearly against such actions. He routinely acted like a bully towards his fellow staff members, using physical force and threats of physical force to intimidate people — usually on persons who were of a smaller physical size than he."
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/mark-marty-rathbun/declarations/
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/media-newsroom/anderson-coopers-last-gasp/

1987 [Marty Rathbun becames second in command in the Church of Scientology]
"In 1987, Mr. Mark Rathbun became a director of the Religious Technology Center."
http://web.archive.org/web/20030208010642/http://www.rtc.org/mark-rathbun.htm

17th of January, 1999: [The first time www.rtc.org is archived. No mention of executives or any names, only Hubbard.]
http://web.archive.org/web/19990117025627/http://www.rtc.org/

Years before 2002: [Mike Rinder's physical violence on men and women.]
Amy Scobee: "Then I heard a big crash and ran into the office. Mike was holding [a male person] against the wall when I got there. I told Mike to let go of him in a calm voice. Mike then came directly over to me, grabbed me by both arms and shoved me, which nearly knocked me down."
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/sources/amy-scobee-sex-lies-and-the-blogosphere.html
"Nonetheless, following stories in a local newspaper, when Mike Rinder’s physical attacks became public knowledge, a veil was lifted on a well-hidden history of violence directed at women. Consequently, those who had suffered his abuse in the past suddenly came forward to tell their stories."
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/sources/rinder-the-lady-killer.html
http://whoismichaelrinder.com/articles/the-lady-killer.html

21st of July, 2001: [www.rtc.org changes its appearance and data.]
http://web.archive.org/web/20010721122745/http://www.rtc.org/

16th of August, 2001: [Marty Rathbun appears as Mark Rathbun on www.rtc.org as]
"Mark Rathbun Inspector General Religious Technology Center. Mark Rathbun is a member of the Board and the Inspector General of Religious Technology Center"
http://web.archive.org/web/20010816174216/http://www.rtc.org/board/page01.htm

8th of December, 2001: [Marty Rathbun is Suppressive Person (SP), he had to write his own SP Declare. The Tampabay link is not a COS site.]
"Dec. 8, 2001: Suppressive Person Declaration. Referring to himself as 'Marty,' Rathbun said he had harmed and undermined colleagues. "Marty took advantage of a number of false reports he had put in place over years giving a false picture as to his role in handling external attacks and the IRS in particular."
"Marty then engaged in a campaign to covertly and systematically take out and undermine any executive or staff who might expose him. He did this through abusing his privilege to act as a security checker. ... He began the out-tech practice of sec checking people with no formal session set up, and brow beating hair-raising confessions out of them."
http://www.tampabay.com/news/article1012138.ece
"THE CONFESSIONS OF MARTY RATHBUN AS TOLD BY HIS ALTER EGO ... Signed, Marty Rathbun"
http://whoismartyrathbun.com/articles/confessions_marty-rathbun-on-himself.html

2002: [Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder were involved in Lisa McPherson's case. They were removed from the executiv position by Miscavige for good.]
"With the hearing concluded, both Rinder and Rathbun are removed, for incompetence. Mr. Miscavige tells them he’s getting to the bottom of this case one way or the other—and their involvement in it. More to the point, from 2002 onward, neither was to ever serve in an executive capacity again."
http://whoismartyrathbun.com/articles/a_liar_is_a_coward1.html
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/sources/a-liar-is-a-coward-a-perjurer-is-a-criminal.html
"Individuals formerly in charge of external legal affairs of the Church are removed from their positions of authority by the ecclesiastical leader of Scientology, Mr. David Miscavige. These people are guilty of gross malfeasance in the performance of their duties and they are in disgrace. They are demoted and stripped of any authority. They are given new positions, albeit in a substantially reduced capacity."
http://www.freedommag.org/what_really_happened

26th of July, 2002: [www.rtc.org changes its appearance and data.]
http://web.archive.org/web/20020726203216/http://www.rtc.org/

8th of February, 2003: [Marty Rathbun is still on www.rtc.org after the structural change of the site, his page is renamed, but no change on his description,rank or position. Strange because he was already removed from this position by Miscavige self]
http://web.archive.org/web/20030208010642/http://www.rtc.org/mark-rathbun.htm

28th of September, 2003: [Marty Rathbun is still an SP.]
"I am applying Steps A-E of HCO PL Suppressive Acts Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists because my continuous actions over the past two decades have suppressed Scientology dissemination and the purposes of this base. ... signed by Marty Rathbun"
http://whoismartyrathbun.com/articles/public-announcement.html
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.or...-rathbun/mark-marty-rathbun-in-his-own-words/

29th of September, 2003: [Marty Rathbun caused losts of millions for the COS]
"Summary: By Rathbun’s own calculation on September 29, 2003, the total amount of harm visited upon Scientology due to his “reign of war” and secret misconduct was $43,799,000. He was being very conservative and the damage is far higher."
http://www.freedommag.org/special-r...brief-chronology-of-monumental-disasters.html

December, 2003: [Marty Rathbun removed again ;) from the executiv position and leaves to lower Church.]
"As the investigation continued to uncover further malfeasance, Rathbun’s permanent post removal was confirmed by his termination and demotion to a lower Church organization in December 2003."
http://www.freedommag.org/what_really_happened
"Rathbun had been removed from all positions of authority in the Church in 2003 for gross malfeasance and violent behaviour, including a near-fatal assault on the aforementioned Rinder."
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/bbc/panorama-how-not-to-report-the-news.html

January, 2004: [Marty Rathbun is back on the International Headquarters in Hemet, California. This was a very short time in lower Church. ;)
Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun were with 40 other staff among them several other executives in the International Management conference room , which is also known as "The SP Hall" or "The Hole". Mike Rinder gave a speech to the executives even though he was not in any executive position for 2 years.]

"In the main conference room in the International Management space, in early 2004, I witnessed Marty Rathbun stride up to Mike Rinder while Rinder was speaking to a group of about 40 other staff, and violently tackle him to the floor. Once Rathbun had him down on the floor, he straddled his body and proceeded to choke Rinder, while asking him some question I could not discern. Rathbun kept on choking Rinder, while also pounding his head against the floor repeatedly and demanding that he answer the question. Finally several men had to forcibly pull him off."
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/mark-marty-rathbun/declarations/
"In January 2004, after Rathbun had been demoted to a lower Church and relieved of any remaining vestiges of authority, he began to display what Church officials called “psychotic behavior.” Witnesses told of how Rathbun tackled co-worker Mike Rinder, and violently beat him. It took five men to pull Rathbun off Rinder, officials said. "
http://www.freedommag.org/special-r...mily-madness-mayhem-and-mysterious-death.html
"During a discussion involving several other executives and staff members of the Church of Scientology International, Rathbun was present and up to that point had remained mostly silent. Suddenly and completely out of the blue, he jumped at Mike Rinder and tackled him violently to the floor while screaming at him with mostly incomprehensible words. Rathbun straddled Rinder, pinning him down with all his weight, while strangling him with both his hands and squeezing his neck."
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/sources/the-kinky-relationship-rathbun-and-rinder.html
"Cathy Bernardini (former wife of Mike Rinder)
“I was married to him for almost 35 years.
“Over the years, he has told me so many times about various actions Mr. Miscavige has extended to him and that he was just blown away with because he knew that David Miscavige really cared about him and really did. And he did.
“In January 2004 when Marty Rathbun beat him up, I thought he was going to kill Mike and I was hysterical. Mike had cuts on his ears and face, his lips were swollen, his face was bruised, he had bruises on his chest. He was a mess. Those injuries lasted for days. It was a nightmare.
“In January 2004, when Marty Rathbun beat him…now I was there, I worked in the building, I was at that meeting.
“Marty literally lunged at Mike and just started beating the hell out of him, got him to the ground, put his entire body on top of Mike's chest and then started strangling him. Mike turned purple. I was hysterical. He’s turning purple. This guy’s nuts, he’s insane. I literally thought he was going to kill my husband and I was upset. One other thing is, that wasn’t the first time."
http://www.freedommag.org/knowing-mike-rinder.html

January-February, 2004: [Miscavige after discovering the abuses and reign of terror of Mark Rathbun and Mike Rinder, he personally removes them from executive position yet again. :D
"Nevertheless, when Mr. Miscavige returned to the Church location where they had instituted their self-proclaimed “reign of terror,” he uncovered their abuses and summarily put them to an end. Shortly thereafter, in February 2004, Rathbun deserted in disgrace for the second time."
http://www.freedommag.org/what_really_happened

3rd of February, 2004: [Marty Rathbun escapes from the International Base.]
"12 noon, Tuesday, February 3, 2004: In what he himself describes as a “surrealistic scene,” Rathbun tells of deserting and heading for the desert, where he cruises to a stop and approaches the father of a nine-year-old boy."
http://www.freedommag.org/mark-marty-rathbun-betrayal.html

October, 2004: [Mike Rinder is one of The IAS 20th Anniversary Event's speakers. But he was a very bad person, how could Miscavige let him speak on such an important event?]
David Miscavige: "Please welcome Mr. Mike Rinder"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhZ-kY50J50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-G53mNhCTI

2004: [Marty Rathbun, Tom De Vocht and Amy Scobee left the "church".]
"But the CNN agenda didn’t call for fairness and accuracy. On the contrary, all AC 360 wanted were “responses” to claims made by a trio of deadbeats who had been removed from any authority in the Church and excommunicated six years ago." [written in 2010]
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/cnn/anderson-cooper-marty-rathbun-video.html
http://www.freedommag.org/special-r...rson-coopers-definition-of-investigation.html

12th of December, 2004: [Marty Rathbun left the COS]
"Rathbun then left the Church for good on December 12, 2004."
http://www.freedommag.org/special-r...mily-madness-mayhem-and-mysterious-death.html

9th of September, 2005: [Marty Rathbun is still on www.rtc.org. After this, his page was removed.]
http://web.archive.org/web/20050909130029/http://www.rtc.org/en_US/mark-rathbun.html

29th of October, 2005: [David Miscavige is the only executive mentioned on www.rtc.org, everybody else is removed]
http://web.archive.org/web/20090506000836/http://www.rtc.org/home.html

January, 2007: [New bad actions of Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder came to light about the case of Lisa McPherson]
"The date was January 2007, when a staff member came forward with a lingering suspicion that Rathbun and Rinder had conspired to withhold vital information in a legal case. In particular, it was reported that every time Mr. Miscavige had ordered Rathbun and Rinder to investigate a particularly egregious act and why it had even occurred, they would wink at each other as soon as Mr. Miscavige left the room."

March, 2007: [Mike Rinder is the Spokesperson of the Church of Scientology]
"You be the judge after reading the following verbatim quotes from Rinder when he served the Church as spokesperson.
'... Look, there is a string of these people…that goes back 25 years. Most of them you will never see again. They have their moment of glory where they make their wild allegations. They get coverage in the media. And then, they disappear. Their claims are proven to be untrue, and they’re gone.'
—Mike Rinder to BBC Panorama in 2007"
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/cnn/rinderama-exposed.html
http://whoismichaelrinder.com/articles/rinder-lying-now-lying-then.html

March, 2007: [Mike Rinder is sometimes a junior assistant other times a church executive on Church's videos and statements.]
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/bbc/panorama-desperate-lies.html
at 00:50:
"Mike Rinder, a former church executive, removed 5 years earlier [in 2002] for a continued pattern of incompetence and gross malfeasance, who has now [in 2007] worked up to the position of junior assisten."
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/bbc/panorama-exposed.html
at 17:50 :
"Next, Scientology executives insist on taking them to the Churches Pacific coast complex ..."
(Tommy Davis and Mike Rinder are the scientology executives on the shot)
At 22:43:
"A church executive confronts Sweeney and asks him ..."
The church executive on the video is Mike Rider.

March 2007: [Mike Rinder goes to UK to meet with BBC]
"He says something about his lying to the BBC [regarding allegations against the Church]. In 2007, it was March and he found out he needed to go to the UK to meet with the BBC at the time. And he told me, as he’s getting ready to pack, saying he was sick of dealing with these people. He said, 'Their allegations are outrageous. They are lies.' The reason it’s so vividly in my mind is that was the last time I saw him."
http://www.freedommag.org/the_brush_off

March 2007:
"A demoted and disgraced former external affairs staff member for the Church of Scientology, Rinder had served as an assistant to Church spokesman Tommy Davis during the 2007 Panorama programme. Shortly thereafter, however, he walked away from his Church, his wife and his children—embittered and unable to face that his own incompetence and severe misconduct had brought about his loss of status. "
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/bbc/panorama-how-not-to-report-the-news.html

March 2007:
"In consequence, Rinder was further demoted and informed he would be barred from ever holding any position of authority in the international ecclesiastical management structure. Shortly thereafter, now working in England where he had been transferred, and denied the power he so cherished, he too walked away in the dead of night."
http://www.freedommag.org/what_really_happened

14th om May, 2007: [Mike Rinder writes an official letter to BBC in the name of the Church of Scientology]
http://www.freedommag.org/sites/default/files/Mike-Rinder-Letter-to-BBC-2007.pdf


10th of June 2007: [Mike Rinder leaves Scientology]
Cathy Bernardini: “After Mike walked out, which was in June 2007—10th of June, I didn’t hear from him for weeks. ... He was in the UK at the time he left"
http://www.freedommag.org/knowing-mike-rinder.html

"In 2007, after severing all ties with his Church, Rinder abruptly and callously abandoned his wife of more than 30 years and their children, one of whom would subsequently wage an excruciating war against cancer."
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/cnn/mike-rinder-a-walking-hate-crime.html


The Crimes of Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder
"Marty Rathbun
..
Violations of State and Federal Laws:
Suborning Perjury*
Obstruction of Justice (destruction of evidence)*
Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice*
Driving While Intoxicated*"

"Mike Rinder
...
Violations of State and Federal Laws:
Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice*"
http://www.freedommag.org/mark-marty-rathbun-justice-scientology.html
 

freethinker

Sponsor
You may want to send this information to Mr. Jefferey, Debbie Cooks Lawyer. His contact information is on the Church seeking Summary Judgement thread By clicking on the VV link. You could just send him a link to this thread but might be better to send him the info you have compiled.

Good Job.
According to the Church of Scientology's own online statements and videos, Church of Scientology Executives of the highest level (second in command) mentally and physically hurt, abused other executives and staff members on the International Headquarters of the Church of Scientology in Hemet, California for more than 20 years. Besides the ecclesiastical crimes they violated several State and Federal Laws.
Even after David Miscavige had learnt about this, they could remain in position for years. Miscavige denies that he beat anybody, but according to the Church own sites he knew about the beatings of others.

I collected these informations from COS sites, so beware of the links if you are afraid.
There are several inconsistencies, but the truth shines through. I put my remarks between square brackets.

So the proof:

1973 [Mike Rinder joins the Sea Org]

http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/cnn/mike-rinder-a-walking-hate-crime.html

1976 [Marty Rathbun joins the Church of Scientology]

http://www.freedommag.org/special-r...mily-madness-mayhem-and-mysterious-death.html
http://whoismartyrathbun.com/articles/the-rathbun-family.html

1978 [Marty Rathbun joins the Church of Scientology, again]

http://web.archive.org/web/20010816174216/http://www.rtc.org/board/page01.htm

1982 [Mike Rinder is a bad person]

http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/mark-marty-rathbun/declarations/
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/media-newsroom/anderson-coopers-last-gasp/

1984 [Marty Ratbun is an even worse person]

http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/mark-marty-rathbun/declarations/
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/media-newsroom/anderson-coopers-last-gasp/

1987 [Marty Rathbun becames second in command in the Church of Scientology]

http://web.archive.org/web/20030208010642/http://www.rtc.org/mark-rathbun.htm

17th of January, 1999: [The first time www.rtc.org is archived. No mention of executives or any names, only Hubbard.]
http://web.archive.org/web/19990117025627/http://www.rtc.org/

Years before 2002: [Mike Rinder's physical violence on men and women.]

http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/sources/amy-scobee-sex-lies-and-the-blogosphere.html

http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/sources/rinder-the-lady-killer.html
http://whoismichaelrinder.com/articles/the-lady-killer.html

21st of July, 2001: [www.rtc.org changes its appearance and data.]
http://web.archive.org/web/20010721122745/http://www.rtc.org/

16th of August, 2001: [Marty Rathbun appears as Mark Rathbun on www.rtc.org as]

http://web.archive.org/web/20010816174216/http://www.rtc.org/board/page01.htm

8th of December, 2001: [Marty Rathbun is Suppressive Person (SP), he had to write his own SP Declare. The Tampabay link is not a COS site.]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/article1012138.ece

http://whoismartyrathbun.com/articles/confessions_marty-rathbun-on-himself.html

2002: [Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder were involved in Lisa McPherson's case. They were removed from the executiv position by Miscavige for good.]

http://whoismartyrathbun.com/articles/a_liar_is_a_coward1.html
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/sources/a-liar-is-a-coward-a-perjurer-is-a-criminal.html

http://www.freedommag.org/what_really_happened

26th of July, 2002: [www.rtc.org changes its appearance and data.]
http://web.archive.org/web/20020726203216/http://www.rtc.org/

8th of February, 2003: [Marty Rathbun is still on www.rtc.org after the structural change of the site, his page is renamed, but no change on his description,rank or position. Strange because he was already removed from this position by Miscavige self]
http://web.archive.org/web/20030208010642/http://www.rtc.org/mark-rathbun.htm

28th of September, 2003: [Marty Rathbun is still an SP.]

http://whoismartyrathbun.com/articles/public-announcement.html
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.or...-rathbun/mark-marty-rathbun-in-his-own-words/

29th of September, 2003: [Marty Rathbun caused losts of millions for the COS]

http://www.freedommag.org/special-r...brief-chronology-of-monumental-disasters.html

December, 2003: [Marty Rathbun removed again ;) from the executiv position and leaves to lower Church.]

http://www.freedommag.org/what_really_happened

http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/bbc/panorama-how-not-to-report-the-news.html

January, 2004: [Marty Rathbun is back on the International Headquarters in Hemet, California. This was a very short time in lower Church. ;)
Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun were with 40 other staff among them several other executives in the International Management conference room , which is also known as "The SP Hall" or "The Hole". Mike Rinder gave a speech to the executives even though he was not in any executive position for 2 years.]

http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/mark-marty-rathbun/declarations/

http://www.freedommag.org/special-r...mily-madness-mayhem-and-mysterious-death.html

http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/sources/the-kinky-relationship-rathbun-and-rinder.html

http://www.freedommag.org/knowing-mike-rinder.html

January-February, 2004: [Miscavige after discovering the abuses and reign of terror of Mark Rathbun and Mike Rinder, he personally removes them from executive position yet again. :D

http://www.freedommag.org/what_really_happened

3rd of February, 2004: [Marty Rathbun escapes from the International Base.]

http://www.freedommag.org/mark-marty-rathbun-betrayal.html

October, 2004: [Mike Rinder is one of The IAS 20th Anniversary Event's speakers. But he was a very bad person, how could Miscavige let him speak on such an important event?]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhZ-kY50J50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-G53mNhCTI

2004: [Marty Rathbun, Tom De Vocht and Amy Scobee left the "church".]

http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/cnn/anderson-cooper-marty-rathbun-video.html
http://www.freedommag.org/special-r...rson-coopers-definition-of-investigation.html

12th of December, 2004: [Marty Rathbun left the COS]

http://www.freedommag.org/special-r...mily-madness-mayhem-and-mysterious-death.html

9th of September, 2005: [Marty Rathbun is still on www.rtc.org. After this, his page was removed.]
http://web.archive.org/web/20050909130029/http://www.rtc.org/en_US/mark-rathbun.html

29th of October, 2005: [David Miscavige is the only executive mentioned on www.rtc.org, everybody else is removed]
http://web.archive.org/web/20090506000836/http://www.rtc.org/home.html

January, 2007: [New bad actions of Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder came to light about the case of Lisa McPherson]


March, 2007: [Mike Rinder is the Spokesperson of the Church of Scientology]

http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/cnn/rinderama-exposed.html
http://whoismichaelrinder.com/articles/rinder-lying-now-lying-then.html

March, 2007: [Mike Rinder is sometimes a junior assistant other times a church executive on Church's videos and statements.]
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/bbc/panorama-desperate-lies.html
at 00:50:
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/bbc/panorama-exposed.html
at 17:50 : (Tommy Davis and Mike Rinder are the scientology executives on the shot)
At 22:43:
The church executive on the video is Mike Rider.

March 2007: [Mike Rinder goes to UK to meet with BBC]

http://www.freedommag.org/the_brush_off

March 2007:
http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/bbc/panorama-how-not-to-report-the-news.html

March 2007:
http://www.freedommag.org/what_really_happened

14th om May, 2007: [Mike Rinder writes an official letter to BBC in the name of the Church of Scientology]
http://www.freedommag.org/sites/default/files/Mike-Rinder-Letter-to-BBC-2007.pdf


10th of June 2007: [Mike Rinder leaves Scientology]

http://www.freedommag.org/knowing-mike-rinder.html


http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/cnn/mike-rinder-a-walking-hate-crime.html


The Crimes of Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder

http://www.freedommag.org/mark-marty-rathbun-justice-scientology.html
 

johnAnchovie

Still raging
While I am no fan of these gentlemen you have taken such trouble to libel in the articles and links you have posted, I do applaud their efforts to weaken Miscavige and the Corporate Monster that the cult is and always has been.

I am puzzled as to why you are posting on this board. You are simply engaged here in blatantly forwarding OSA propaganda, cut and pasted from Freedom magazines and websites with no critical analysis being applied whatsoever. Do you see why this seems very odd to us (this) ex scientologist?

I think both admitted to using violence on staffers beneath them on the org board, so I am not sure what you might be getting at. My understanding is that they admited to using violence, and were under intense and direct pressure from Miscavaige to do so. I saw this kind of thing in the UK, Bart Van Locke the IAS freak and former D/CO E&I to James lunatic Byrne and that racist bully-thug Ron Nortan use violence and threats of violence following theirn return from training IN LA on a Miscavige blessed new and violent management style.

Are you saying that the violence and abuses exposed over the past few years is all their fault?
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
According to the Church of Scientology's own online statements and videos...


This is not the place to post Church of Scientology links and quotes of their efforts to defame individuals.

I started reading your post but couldn't find much in the way of useful facts in the COS quotes you've taken from the "attack Marty" sites beyond the year Mark Rathbun joined staff. Even I can pinpoint the date closer than a general year, though, and that was the closest thing to a fact in the whole thing.

Why don't you just leave the Amy Scobee quotes & anything else by people who actually knew Marty rather than destructive rumor-mongering and edit out (delete) the rest from here. It doesn't belong on exscn.
 
John, I understand your perspective on this, a big hug to you! :)

However, I think this point has merit:

"According to the Church of Scientology's own online statements and videos, Church of Scientology Executives of the highest level (second in command) mentally and physically hurt, abused other executives and staff members on the International Headquarters of the Church of Scientology in Hemet, California for more than 20 years. Besides the ecclesiastical crimes they violated several State and Federal Laws.

[This much has been mostly admitted by the gentlemen in question]

Even after David Miscavige had learnt about this, they could remain in position for years. Miscavige denies that he beat anybody, but according to the Church own sites he knew about the beatings of others.

I think that is his main point...even if he is using "information" from the COS' own black PR websites to do so.

That something is rotten in Denmark, and that a fish rots from it's head, (to use English language colloquialisms) IS the point, so far as I am concerned.

David Miscavige is the WHO...

That he is using M and M to make his point does not necessarily make him OSA in my book, especially if he is not a native English speaker...if he/she really is Hungarian. Your views may very, and it's okay with me! :)
 

Scn.Hun

Patron
Maybe I was not very clear about my intention. I know that Marty and Mike admitted already what they have done. I know why they have done it. I don't want to blame them for anything. It was not my point.

What I wanted to show are the following things:
- The Church of Scientology admitted that there were physical and mental abuses for many many years.
- The Church of Scientology admitted, that even the executive second in command committed horrible things for years.
- The Church of Scientology admitted that David Miscavige personally knew about them.
- The Church of Scientology claims, that those executives were removed from position, but they weren't.



While I am no fan of these gentlemen you have taken such trouble to libel in the articles and links you have posted, I do applaud their efforts to weaken Miscavige and the Corporate Monster that the cult is and always has been.

I am puzzled as to why you are posting on this board. You are simply engaged here in blatantly forwarding OSA propaganda, cut and pasted from Freedom magazines and websites with no critical analysis being applied whatsoever. Do you see why this seems very odd to us (this) ex scientologist?

I think both admitted to using violence on staffers beneath them on the org board, so I am not sure what you might be getting at. My understanding is that they admited to using violence, and were under intense and direct pressure from Miscavaige to do so. I saw this kind of thing in the UK, Bart Van Locke the IAS freak and former D/CO E&I to James lunatic Byrne and that racist bully-thug Ron Nortan use violence and threats of violence following theirn return from training IN LA on a Miscavige blessed new and violent management style.

Are you saying that the violence and abuses exposed over the past few years is all their fault?
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
TL:DR version of above:

In response to the "Truth Rundown" claims of abuse by Miscavige, the CoS reported that all violence perpetrated at Gold Base was done by Marty, Mike and possibly Tom DeVocht.

However, they also claimed that Miscavige knew nothing about it (though it went on for years in the compound in which he lived) and essentially fired those responsible as soon he did find out.

The above collection of the CoS's own statements shows that their story is inconsistent and that M&M were still in positions of authority at a time when they claim Miscavige knew about their physical abuse.

----

Even shorter version -- the above CoS statements about violence at Gold can't all be true therefore they are lying somewhere. This is evidence that they have engaged in lies and cover-ups about the abuse at Gold Base.

I assume the intent of reproducing their slander was to make use of the ample rope they have provided.
 

Scn.Hun

Patron
John, I understand your perspective on this, a big hug to you! :)

However, I think this point has merit:

...

Even after David Miscavige had learnt about this, they could remain in position for years. Miscavige denies that he beat anybody, but according to the Church own sites he knew about the beatings of others.

I think that is his main point...even if he is using "information" from the COS' own black PR websites to do so.

..
David Miscavige is the WHO...

That he is using M and M to make his point does not necessarily make him OSA in my book, especially if he is not a native English speaker...if he/she really is Hungarian. Your views may very, and it's okay with me! :)

Yeah SweetnessandLight, you understand it. I was thinking about it for some time. How to prove that Miscavige has anything to do with the beating. We can get 10 ex-church members to testify, Miscavige will bring 100, who say that he is the sweet leader.
But we can use their own admissions to expose them. Data on their propaganda sites, which slipped through. So I used them. I think it even can be used in court agains Miscavige.

Sorry if the black propaganda hurt somebody.
 
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Scn.Hun

Patron
TL:DR version of above:

In response to the "Truth Rundown" claims of abuse by Miscavige, the CoS reported that all violence perpetrated at Gold Base was done by Marty, Mike and possibly Tom DeVocht.

However, they also claimed that Miscavige knew nothing about it (though it went on for years in the compound in which he lived) and essentially fired those responsible as soon he did find out.

The above collection of the CoS's own statements shows that their story is inconsistent and that M&M were still in positions of authority at a time when they claim Miscavige knew about their physical abuse.

----

Even shorter version -- the above CoS statements about violence at Gold can't all be true therefore they are lying somewhere. This is evidence that they have engaged in lies and cover-ups about the abuse at Gold Base.

I assume the intent of reproducing their slander was to make use of the ample rope they have provided.

Yessss. You see it wel. :thumbsup::) and summarized much better than me!
 

johnAnchovie

Still raging
Maybe I was not very clear about my intention. snip.

Oh, ok, I see what you mean now.

One does tend to err on the side of the reactive when there is any hint that our dear friends from the Office of Special Affairs may be making propaganda efforts on the EX Scientology boards.

Your point is well taken that there is official acknowledgement of the use of violence and other such abuses at the highest levels of the Scientology corporation.

I suppose the question is what might be, how best can this be used against the corporation and Miscavige himself?
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
I suppose the question is what might be, how best can this be used against the corporation and Miscavige himself?

This is possibly tricky. While one could infer that statements by official spokespeople constitute a formal statement of some type (though not necessarily a legally-sworn one), my recollection from the last time I looked at a physical Freedom magazine was that it had no indication of authorship.

I suspect the CoS can argue that nothing printed in Freedom (and certainly not in the anti-Marty sites) constitutes an official statement.

You probably need to use their affidavits to really tie them up.
 

Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
TL:DR version of above:

In response to the "Truth Rundown" claims of abuse by Miscavige, the CoS reported that all violence perpetrated at Gold Base was done by Marty, Mike and possibly Tom DeVocht.

However, they also claimed that Miscavige knew nothing about it (though it went on for years in the compound in which he lived) and essentially fired those responsible as soon he did find out.

The above collection of the CoS's own statements shows that their story is inconsistent and that M&M were still in positions of authority at a time when they claim Miscavige knew about their physical abuse.

----

Even shorter version -- the above CoS statements about violence at Gold can't all be true therefore they are lying somewhere. This is evidence that they have engaged in lies and cover-ups about the abuse at Gold Base.

I assume the intent of reproducing their slander was to make use of the ample rope they have provided.

This isn't the first time and it sure won't be the last time that Scientology lies, and it makes Scientologists liars, whether intentional or not. Even if it's for the "greatest good", a lie is still a lie.

I dislike both Rathbun and Rinder, mainly because of all the lies and their behavior, but it doesn't alter the fact that Scientology still lies about Rinder and Rathbun also.

But at the end of the day, who does one believe? They are not exactly models of virtue are they, but then neither is the "church" of immorality.

One point, one of many I might add is why did Rinder say they had gotten rid of all those corrupt members of the "church"(you know Mary Sue, Jane Kember, Mo Budlong etc) when Jane Kember took Scientology courses as recently as 2003 - 2010.Perhaps he didn't know? Are you kidding me, of course he knew.

Scn.Hun
- The Church of Scientology claims, that those executives were removed from position, but they weren't.
 

cakemaker

Patron Meritorious
Assuming that a percentage of the stories are true, what it points out is the gross incompetence of Miscavige to surround himself with such subordinates and to ignore or be oblivious to the violence. It is more an indictment of him than of his juniors.

It also highlights the uselessness of Scientology's admin technology in being able to sort out good people from bad. Sec checks, life histories, OCA's, Exec qualifications checksheets, 'post approvals by a dozen terminals' mean nothing.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Assuming that a percentage of the stories are true, what it points out is the gross incompetence of Miscavige to surround himself with such subordinates and to ignore or be oblivious to the violence. It is more an indictment of him than of his juniors.

It also highlights the uselessness of Scientology's admin technology in being able to sort out good people from bad. Sec checks, life histories, OCA's, Exec qualifications checksheets, 'post approvals by a dozen terminals' mean nothing.

I believe that it's all true. The dishonesty lies in what is left out, which is an accounting of DM's actions. Note that Rathbun has a history of fouling up legal cases. I've posted on another thread that I'm concerned about his involvement in DC's case. I still am.
 
This is not the place to post Church of Scientology links and quotes of their efforts to defame individuals. ...

The important thing is whether the remarks themselves are true. If ancillary data is missing or deliberately not revealed that should be pointed out and if possible provided.

Ultimately all the truth about l.ron hubbard and his church is needed to come out, not just that which is thought to put Miscavige in a bad light. The whole basis of the debacle which has become the Church of Scientology has been the organizational preference for a selective telling of the truth since its inception by l.ron hubbard.

That is something which many ex-scientologists, both independents and critics, have themselves yet to overcome.


Mark A. Baker
 

Terril park

Sponsor
While I am no fan of these gentlemen you have taken such trouble to libel in the articles and links you have posted, I do applaud their efforts to weaken Miscavige and the Corporate Monster that the cult is and always has been.

I am puzzled as to why you are posting on this board. You are simply engaged here in blatantly forwarding OSA propaganda, cut and pasted from Freedom magazines and websites with no critical analysis being applied whatsoever. Do you see why this seems very odd to us (this) ex scientologist?

I think both admitted to using violence on staffers beneath them on the org board, so I am not sure what you might be getting at. My understanding is that they admited to using violence, and were under intense and direct pressure from Miscavaige to do so. I saw this kind of thing in the UK, Bart Van Locke the IAS freak and former D/CO E&I to James lunatic Byrne and that racist bully-thug Ron Nortan use violence and threats of violence following theirn return from training IN LA on a Miscavige blessed new and violent management style.

Are you saying that the violence and abuses exposed over the past few years is all their fault?

XXXX was pointing out inconsistencies [outpoints]. This was also done
by Anderson Cooper interviewing the "inch square" wives.

On eliciting that physical beatings were going on for years , one of them, Jennie De Voght I believe, said DM wasn't on the premises at the time to which Anderson replied, " Don't you have phones?" The reply was that he was insulting!

XXXX please send these to Mr Jefferys. I believe much you linked to is only found on the likes of the wayback machine and they must all be under incredible time pressure now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP1XXgooQhQ&feature=related
 
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Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
While I am no fan of these gentlemen you have taken such trouble to libel in the articles and links you have posted, I do applaud their efforts to weaken Miscavige and the Corporate Monster that the cult is and always has been.

I am puzzled as to why you are posting on this board. You are simply engaged here in blatantly forwarding OSA propaganda, cut and pasted from Freedom magazines and websites with no critical analysis being applied whatsoever. Do you see why this seems very odd to us (this) ex scientologist?

I think both admitted to using violence on staffers beneath them on the org board, so I am not sure what you might be getting at. My understanding is that they admitted to using violence, and were under intense and direct pressure from Miscavige to do so.

Are you saying that the violence and abuses exposed over the past few years is all their fault?

Whereas, I wouldn't trust anything that comes from OSA's Religious Freedom Watch (which has pegged me as an "anti-religion extremist), I'm frustrated by Mike & Marty's attempts to avoid personal responsibility & accountability in their actions, and their vile attempts to blame it ALL on Miscavige.

Just because Miscavige ordered someone to assault another person doesn't entitle them to do it. Marty has often said he assaulted others on DM's orders and that he "had no choice", because DM would beat him up?

To the contrary. Marty has said repeatedly, especially in reference to the "musical chairs" incident, that DM was afraid to hit Marty because he knew that Marty would hit him back.

Throughout history, especially in the time of war, individuals have been ordered to do things unlawful, and they had a choice to do it or not. By refusing to follow orders, the perpetrator may well have become the victim, but it was a choice they had to make. Some remained perpetrators; some became martyrs standing up for themselves.

Mike & Marty made that choice.. others suffered for it, and, of course, they would have you believe they were forced to do it because DM ordered it.

The phrase, "Grow some balls", is lost to them.
 
... was pointing out inconsistencies [outpoints]. ...

Be careful of 'outing' an anonymous board member, BB. You've done that before. :eyeroll:

Since no posts have been made on the thread relevant to your remarks by anyone publicly using the name you cite, you should only use publicly acknowledged names for posters. Clean up your post.


Mark A. Baker
 

Scn.Hun

Patron
This is possibly tricky. While one could infer that statements by official spokespeople constitute a formal statement of some type (though not necessarily a legally-sworn one), my recollection from the last time I looked at a physical Freedom magazine was that it had no indication of authorship.

I suspect the CoS can argue that nothing printed in Freedom (and certainly not in the anti-Marty sites) constitutes an official statement.

You probably need to use their affidavits to really tie them up.

Yeah, normally you are right, but in these cases the Church of Scientology submitted these statements also as written documents to S.P. Times, the BBC and CNN. They should have the originals.
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
Be careful of 'outing' an anonymous board member, BB. You've done that before. :eyeroll:

Since no posts have been made on the thread relevant to your remarks by anyone publicly using the name you cite, you should only use publicly acknowledged names for posters. Clean up your post.


Mark A. Baker

Perhaps I'm wrong here (no expert on how the Board works) but: can he still edit a post, if you've quoted him?
 
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