Proof Needed

[OutFO38]

A friend and I were having a discussion about Scientology last night. At one point we were talking about what exactly would be needed to wake up those Scientologists who are still heavily involved and brainwashed. We came to the conclusion that the only thing that might make people wake up would be an actual video of COB beating someone. Scientologists can explain away any black PR they hear about the church but if they actually saw DM beating someone with their own eyes it seems like it would at least jolt them awake a little bit or a lot...

With that being said, all we would need is one SO member still at Int to secretly video him doing it on their cell phone and then blow the base.

Then I started wondering - has DM scaled back on his beatings because of all the bad press, FBI investigation, etc.? Maybe he's being more careful these days.

OutFO38

 

[Jachs]

Im not saying it wouldnt wake up some , some SO members would just accept it as a punishment for out ethics.

Dm prob has a padded cell and uses cushions to hide the bruises.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

My 2 cents is that a vid of DM beating the shit out of a staff member would do nothing to get some people out.

Bear in mind some people have DIED under very questionable circumstances.

Flat out crimes at the hire of the "church" are known facts.

There is no one clear.

There is not one OT.

How long does the list have to be for it to be apparant some are not going to open their eyes?

 

[OutFO38]

Im not saying it wouldnt wake up some , some SO members would just accept it as a punishment for out ethics.

Dm prob has a padded cell and uses cushions to hide the bruises.

I agree that it may not wake up all of them, but at least some would surely have to walk away after that! But, yeah, some people would find a way to explain it away - they must have done something really bad, they attacked DM first, the video was altered, etc...

 

[OutFO38]

My 2 cents is that a vid of DM beating the shit out of a staff member would do nothing to get some people out.

Bear in mind some people have DIED under very questionable circumstances.

Flat out crimes at the hire of the "church" are known facts.

There is no one clear.

There is not one OT.

How long does the list have to be for it to be apparant some are not going to open their eyes?

True - but the one thing lacking is actual proof of the crimes that someone could see with their own eyes, rather than just hearing about it. If the beatings or other crimes were on video and shown to a Scientologist I would think at least some of them would believe it.

 

[Ulf K. Maier]

Sounds good on paper, but...

A friend and I were having a discussion about Scientology last night. At one point we were talking about what exactly would be needed to wake up those Scientologists who are still heavily involved and brainwashed. We came to the conclusion that the only thing that might make people wake up would be an actual video of COB beating someone. Scientologists can explain away any black PR they hear about the church but if they actually saw DM beating someone with their own eyes it seems like it would at least jolt them awake a little bit or a lot...

With that being said, all we would need is one SO member still at Int to secretly video him doing it on their cell phone and then blow the base.

Then I started wondering - has DM scaled back on his beatings because of all the bad press, FBI investigation, etc.? Maybe he's being more careful these days.

OutFO38

Die-hard clams, er, Scios, would see such a video and come to the conclusion that the victim had "pulled in" the beating; i.e., deserved it due to some transgression committed. "They must have been CI (counter-intention) or SP... "

Oftentimes, because of the nature of the powerful brainwashing (read: Black Dianetics) that occurs in the scientology mafia, er, cult, it will take more than just one thing for cult members to wake up and smell the brimstone.

 

[Jachs]

Im sure some would wake up, another thing is the fearful ones wouldnt want to have critical thoughts about DM and senior commanding officers of the universe saviors of billions of beings as Ron wrote that one way flow you mustnt be critical..its Rons way of saying Check Mate.

Marty Rathbun Mike Rinder plus many others have claimed it, but how do you get the word through to the affected.

No one has ever broken through into an org and played the truth to the public, sounds like a great idea that at a major event.

 

[degraded being]

I agree that it may not wake up all of them, but at least some would surely have to walk away after that! But, yeah, some people would find a way to explain it away - they must have done something really bad, they attacked DM first, the video was altered, etc...

I agree that it would work for some.
There are a lot of people who DO know some of the illegal things, and terrible things that LRH did, and some who saw it with their own eyes in the early days of the SO, and later let MSH go to jail, etc, and still make excuses for it; they are still stuck to the cult.

 

[practice]

A friend and I were having a discussion about Scientology last night. At one point we were talking about what exactly would be needed to wake up those Scientologists who are still heavily involved and brainwashed. We came to the conclusion that the only thing that might make people wake up would be an actual video of COB beating someone. Scientologists can explain away any black PR they hear about the church but if they actually saw DM beating someone with their own eyes it seems like it would at least jolt them awake a little bit or a lot...

With that being said, all we would need is one SO member still at Int to secretly video him doing it on their cell phone and then blow the base.

Then I started wondering - has DM scaled back on his beatings because of all the bad press, FBI investigation, etc.? Maybe he's being more careful these days.

OutFO38

That would be fucking sweet.

It's kind of asking for the impossible, though... How does the Int base guy get a hidden camera? I can't imagine him/her overtly carrying a camera around all day waiting for COB to beat someone up. Or COB being dumb enough to lay into someone right in front of an SO member carrying a camera, and then not confiscating the camera and destroying the footage.

On the other hand, I heard DARPA is funding some research into ornithopters... http://www.popsci.com/military-avia...009-07/darpa-tests-first-robotic-ornithopters

 

[Auditor's Toad]

True - but the one thing lacking is actual proof of the crimes that someone could see with their own eyes, rather than just hearing about it. If the beatings or other crimes were on video and shown to a Scientologist I would think at least some of them would believe it.

Maybe not many have seen the full face photo of Lisa Mc Pherson dead ?

How about coroners report on the death of Hubbie ?

There are examples - getting more people to look at them and see them for what they really are is another thing.

I suspect if all of scientology was shut down that it would not be long until a few fundamentalists moved into old blue and tried to carry on. Such is the way of a cult.

 

[Freeminds]

Just wondering... how many of the people who took part in that bizarre game of 'musical chairs' at Int Base are still in?

It's one thing to see DM abusing some other cult victim; you might be able to rationalize that away as 'crimes' on the part of the person you see being assaulted... but how about when it's you, or your husband?

Footage of DM beating somebody would help, but the simple fact that these assaults happen is enough. As Scientology shrinks, new people are drawn into Miscavige's inner circle. Exes' 'war stories' have shown us that those who come into contact with the Tiny Tyrant are likely to get attacked or treated disgracefully, sooner or later. When it's the turn of the 'faithful believer', and they know they've been working 100+ hours a week for shit pay and no benefits... maybe they'll cotton on to the fact that Scientology is just a system of abuse and exploitation.

If that doesn't wake them up, I really wonder what will? But Sea Org are blowing at least as fast as staff now, so I think the message is filtering through. I expect great things in the remainder of 2011.

 

[Mystic]

Someone still in that cult at this late date with the plethora of information about it so available may be a thousand incarnations away from "waking up".

 

[Mick Wenlock]

A friend and I were having a discussion about Scientology last night. At one point we were talking about what exactly would be needed to wake up those Scientologists who are still heavily involved and brainwashed. We came to the conclusion that the only thing that might make people wake up would be an actual video of COB beating someone. Scientologists can explain away any black PR they hear about the church but if they actually saw DM beating someone with their own eyes it seems like it would at least jolt them awake a little bit or a lot...

With that being said, all we would need is one SO member still at Int to secretly video him doing it on their cell phone and then blow the base.

Then I started wondering - has DM scaled back on his beatings because of all the bad press, FBI investigation, etc.? Maybe he's being more careful these days.

OutFO38

If that actually worked why didnt the ones at Int who SAW it happen - blow? Sure some of them left much later and THEN talked about it - even the people who were hit didn't leave immediately.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Of curse those who went to work at Int were the type of people who were easily cowed and who were the most gullible of Scientologists (which is quite an achievement considering how gullible we all were)

Important to remember when talking about Rinder and Rathbun for example - they did not have their posts and positions because they were smart but because they were pliable and dumb.

 

[Ladybird]

Of curse those who went to work at Int were the type of people who were easily cowed and who were the most gullible of Scientologists (which is quite an achievement considering how gullible we all were)

Important to remember when talking about Rinder and Rathbun for example - they did not have their posts and positions because they were smart but because they were pliable and dumb.

I agree Mick. There are some excellent references about this phenomenon about not only scientology but cults in general and includes some studies on the military as well.

An excerpt:

Where Hubbard stole the 2% rule, or for ex-staff
Why you never got promoted in Scientology


From pages 28 and 29 of William Sargant's
Battle for the Mind - a physiology of conversion and brainwashing
ISBN 1-883536-06-5
Essential reading for all combatants


"In November, 1944, Swank still felt that an occasional soldier, "perhaps less than 2%", belonged to the group capable of withstanding combat stress for an inordinate length of time. But we find him reporting in 1946:"

"This seemed true...in November 1944. Since then we have concluded that all normal men eventually suffer combat exhaustion in continuous and severe combat. The exception to this rule are psychotic (insane) soldiers, and a number of examples of this have been observed."

http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/hubbard2percentrule.htm