Protecting my daughter

Illegal Alien

Patron with Honors
Forgive me if I've come onto the wrong section of the forum.
I'm after some advice. I have a 5 year old daughter who is now living with my ex partner who ended our 12 year old relationship some 6 months ago.
Last March my ex told me that she wanted to end our relationship and came up with some lame excuses. It was around then that I found some Scientology books, DVD and other literature hidden in our house. I didn't approach her right away about it, I wanted to do some research into it and what I found, I didn't like.
I also discovered that she was becoming more friendly with one of her work colleagues who was a Scientologist and it was apparently him that lent her some of the books etc.
She eventually left the home with our daughter and stays in rented accomodation nearby.
10 days later, she announced that she is now an item with the guy from work.
I phoned the guy and told him that I didn't want him near my daughter because of his beliefs and as far as I know, he has kept to that arrangement.
Months have passed and my ex and her boyfriend are making comments on social media sites which are a little alarming, regarding "staying on the program" etc.
She has now said to me that my daughter could not be welcomed into the CoS because of me. Does anyone know if this is true? Is it because I am seen to be a PTS or SP?

I am not concerned about my ex, she is old enough to know what she is doing. However my main concern is my daughter and protecting her. What sort of signs should I be looking out for?
Any advice that anyone can give would be most grateful.
Thank you.

For a moment I felt like I was reading my story.
In all of this it is important that you understand where this could go in the years to come and understand a little about scientology.

I share a similar story to you, here is my thread I suggest you read it to get an idea as to what scientology is capable of spreading. Not to freak you out but so you understand what may come and how to try avoid or deal with it.

www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?18180-A-DECLARE..SHATTERED-CHILDREN..DISCONNECTION

Your daughter is still young which at the moment is a plus point.

I hate these situations I really do.

You need to just be there for your daughter be her father and love her to bits. At the moment that is the best you can do.

The truth is the older she gets it is going to be harder for you to fend off the fangs of scientology as she will have that influence on her when you are not with her.
Your ex will also act very differently towards you the more she gets in scientology.

Use this board and ask for advice as this progresses in the years to come.

If you feel you need to message me with questions no problem and I am sure many others here would be happy to help.

You have friends here, keep us posted.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
The one thing that is bothering me here is how you say your ex is old enough.... my old standby is that if Thought Reform/Mind Control/Brainwashing looked like it did in Afterschool Specials (or now, probably, Lifetime Movies), nobody would EVER fall for it.

You do have a couple routes. I have seen folks do the Knowledge Report, where you write up how the ex is doing something that is beyond the ethical standards of the cult, and the cult does bug out and it usually gets resolved quickly and swiftly. I have mostly seen it rip up the new relationship almost immediately. Depending on your ex, and your relationship.. it could work.

HOWEVER, if you do still care about her (even if you never want to get back together), being her friend and letting her know that you are there for her as a friend NO MATTER WHAT, but you have concerns... could be good. When someone gets into the realm of the cult and everyone in their old world backs away...their only place to turn for support is within the cult.

They will be setting you up to be the enemy. She's early enough in, that if you care enough, and she knows that you won'[t condemn her for momentarily jumping into this, and she knows she won't treat her as an idiot because of a lapse... it might give her a safety net.

The thing is, there really is no black and white answer. You need to know her... but, you also need to read up on all the cult tactics and the info so that you know what you are looking at. Attacking the cult to her will probably not work.... it just will "prove" to her (with coaching from the cult) that you are trying to stop her from living a better life. You know her better than anyone here on the board.

We know the cult more. Grab the education on how the cult operates, and how it might change how she responds... and make your own decision (while definitely documenting EVERYTHING---seriously, keep a log of every call and discussion just in case) and getting legal counsel. In the meantime, just keep enjoying the hell out of the time with your daughter. That you are working to keep the conflict out of her life is commendable. Having that bond is something that is hard for the cult to compete with...
 

anglorob

New Member
Thank you all once again for your responses.

Can someone please clarify what a "knowledge report" is?

I was in contact with my ex partner this morning by text. I asked her if I had been declared as an SP and was that the reason why our daughter could not be brought into the CoS. I also asked if she was going through "purif"
She said that I had not been declared anything and she had no idea what I was on about with "purif" She said that our daughter was a minor and would need my permission to enter the CoS
Obviously I didn't mention this forum, but I said that I had been in contact with (ex) scientologists. She freaked and wanted to know who I had spoken to and what was said. I didn't answer her questions and that was that.

So, do I get this right? The more I stir things up within the CoS, the more chance they will not want my daughter involved?

IA....thank you so much for your reply. I read your thread right through to the end. I don't mind admitting that I had tears in my eyes. I sincerely hope that you can rectify everything and get to be with your children again. It's so heartbreaking and to think that I could be going down the same path is frightening.

Thank you all again.
 

Div6

Crusader
Thank you all once again for your responses.

Can someone please clarify what a "knowledge report" is?

I was in contact with my ex partner this morning by text. I asked her if I had been declared as an SP and was that the reason why our daughter could not be brought into the CoS. I also asked if she was going through "purif"
She said that I had not been declared anything and she had no idea what I was on about with "purif" She said that our daughter was a minor and would need my permission to enter the CoS
Obviously I didn't mention this forum, but I said that I had been in contact with (ex) scientologists. She freaked and wanted to know who I had spoken to and what was said. I didn't answer her questions and that was that.

So, do I get this right? The more I stir things up within the CoS, the more chance they will not want my daughter involved?

IA....thank you so much for your reply. I read your thread right through to the end. I don't mind admitting that I had tears in my eyes. I sincerely hope that you can rectify everything and get to be with your children again. It's so heartbreaking and to think that I could be going down the same path is frightening.

Thank you all again.


A "knowledge report" is a report that Scngsts are "required" to submit whenever they become awaore of an "out-ethics" or criminal situation. As I recall, a copy fo the report is supposed to be sent to the person it is being written about, as well as a copy to the person who is writing it's ethics folder, and to the people in the organization who need to know.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Thank you all once again for your responses.

Can someone please clarify what a "knowledge report" is?

I've never been in that cult, so my explanation is probably a bit clumsy, but basically a Knowledge Report is a way to report "crimes". I put the word in quotes because it means "crimes" against the Scientologic "laws", not crimes against the law of the land.

Someone more knowledgeable may expand on that.

I was in contact with my ex partner this morning by text. I asked her if I had been declared as an SP and was that the reason why our daughter could not be brought into the CoS. I also asked if she was going through "purif"
She said that I had not been declared anything and she had no idea what I was on about with "purif" She said that our daughter was a minor and would need my permission to enter the CoS
Obviously I didn't mention this forum, but I said that I had been in contact with (ex) scientologists. She freaked and wanted to know who I had spoken to and what was said. I didn't answer her questions and that was that.

So, do I get this right? The more I stir things up within the CoS, the more chance they will not want my daughter involved?

Well, basically yes, but it depends how much of a "big fish" you can be. You wouldn't be the 1st one who would have been worn down and out by a decades long legal battle. I should mention that their resources are spread pretty thin nowadays, so you'd have to be a kinda big fish for them to seriously try that on you.

IA....thank you so much for your reply. I read your thread right through to the end. I don't mind admitting that I had tears in my eyes. I sincerely hope that you can rectify everything and get to be with your children again. It's so heartbreaking and to think that I could be going down the same path is frightening.

Don't let these cult tactics frighten you. Fear is one of their favorite tactics to beat people into submission. Some people here have won against the cult in one way or another, and so can you. Just don't expect it to be a quick 'n easy game, you have to stand strong and focused.
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
Hey buddy,

I understand your predicament and I am very sorry that you have lost your wife to Scientology. You can see already the nature of the religion and how it breaks up families.

The best thing to do is just focus on your daughter. Show her all the love that she deserves from her father. Let your anger towards Scientology and this man that unjustly stole your wife from you fade into obscurity so you can focus on your daughter.

Do not be concerned about serious indoctrination until she is in her preteens and teenage years. If you have been a good father until then, when they try to throw the book at her about how you are an evil person for being against Scientology, they will lose her because she will know it is not the truth.

The worst thing you can do is try to prove them right by being vindictive.

Writing a "KR" as Idle Morgue suggested will not work because the church obviously favors their own over outsiders. They will laugh at you and call you an SP and it will only make you angrier.

The worst thing to do for your daughter is start a custody battle. It's hard enough on her that you guys aren't together anymore without also having you guys fighting over her. Let her mother start it if she is so inclined. This falls into the "vindictive" part.

Focus on building your relationship with your daughter. Don't worry about what the other two are doing with her. If your ex takes a page from the book of Scientology she will let her daughter go in the interest of advancing her own position within the church. You need to make sure you are there to take care of your daughter when that happens.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
So, do I get this right? The more I stir things up within the CoS, the more chance they will not want my daughter involved?

I don't know how things work in the U.K., but I would never advise anyone to stir shit up for the sake of stirring shit up in the U.S. You could risk coming across as a lunatic in your own way. I don't think that you should write a KR to the Co$ - that seems vindictive, and as others have pointed out they will take their own cult members word over yours.

The way that I would personally handle it would be to engage in day-to-day activities that normal balanced responsible parents do, but Scientologists consider verbotten. Again, bear in mind that I'm in the U.S. and consider myself knowledgeable in U.S. law. To that end, most of my friends who have kids and are divorced have taken their children for counselling. That is what normal responsible parents do. It is also absolutely forbidden in Scientology. I'm not suggesting that you medicate your daughter (I retain that strong anti-psychiatric-drug stance from my Co$ days, and would think it's child abuse if you did it to keep her out of the Co$). I am suggesting "talk therapy" or "play therapy" or whatever sort of thing you can get a first grader into to cope with divorce / separation.

I tend to agree that you'd have to be a rather big fish these days to be fair gamed. BUT, it's worth researching how all that works. I still think that you absolutely need to get with a lawyer to establish joint legal custody. In the U.S., there are two types of custody - "physical" and "legal". To say you have joint physical custody means that you get your daughter part of the time and her mother gets her part of the time. But if you don't have joint legal custody, her mother can make unilateral decisions about her upbringing without consulting you. This includes religious decisions. This is why you need to establish that you have BOTH.

In the U.S., anything you say to your lawyer is confidential, so you can talk about how much you hate the Co$, show him all the articles you want, etc. If it's the same in the U.K., talk all you want about the Co$, but let him decide what to do with the information. The Co$ loathes bad publicity (even though they are so good at getting it). So, your lawyer can decide how to **threaten** to stir shit up (not actually stir shit up - see the difference?). Again, in an adversarial system, normal balanced people's lawyers threaten this all the time. So you can use the information you have without seeming like a complete lunatic.

Sorry I can't give you specific advice re U.K. law, but I think that certain principles are universal - like not seeming like a complete vindictive nutcase when all you want is what's best for your child.

As an aside, there is a member of ESMB by the name of Terril Park who I consider to be very knowledgeable. He is in the U.K. and associated with something called the "Freezone" (basically a Protestant version of Scientology, for lack of a better explanation). He has been a critic of the Church of Scientology for a very long time. While many members on here will give you a warning to wrap your head in tinfoil before talking to him (he is a true believer in "the Tech"), I think he could probably give you some good advice about dealing with the Co$ in the U.K. For as long as he's been out and a critic, he has been dead on with a couple of observations about my situation.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Forgive me if I've come onto the wrong section of the forum.
I'm after some advice. I have a 5 year old daughter who is now living with my ex partner who ended our 12 year old relationship some 6 months ago.
Last March my ex told me that she wanted to end our relationship and came up with some lame excuses. It was around then that I found some Scientology books, DVD and other literature hidden in our house. I didn't approach her right away about it, I wanted to do some research into it and what I found, I didn't like.
I also discovered that she was becoming more friendly with one of her work colleagues who was a Scientologist and it was apparently him that lent her some of the books etc.
She eventually left the home with our daughter and stays in rented accomodation nearby.
10 days later, she announced that she is now an item with the guy from work.
I phoned the guy and told him that I didn't want him near my daughter because of his beliefs and as far as I know, he has kept to that arrangement.
Months have passed and my ex and her boyfriend are making comments on social media sites which are a little alarming, regarding "staying on the program" etc.
She has now said to me that my daughter could not be welcomed into the CoS because of me. Does anyone know if this is true? Is it because I am seen to be a PTS or SP?

I am not concerned about my ex, she is old enough to know what she is doing. However my main concern is my daughter and protecting her. What sort of signs should I be looking out for?
Any advice that anyone can give would be most grateful.
Thank you.


The kid's five years old, right? Then I don't see a problem, really. At least not with regard to the child herself. However, if your ex joins and they start hammering her about you, they could try to interfere with your relationship and ability to see your child.

I'm not sure why the child (who is so very young right now anyway) wouldn't be able to join because of you unless you've done something where they think you're their enemy.

They are super paranoid.
 

Wants2Talk

Silver Meritorious Patron
This is a game where manners will cost your daughter her soul, her life, her freedom, and her daddy. I speak from experience.

Trust me, they wont play nice. :omg:

im me if you like.
 

anglorob

New Member
Quite a dramatic day! I have found out that my ex's boyfriend has had contact with my daughter despite our agreement. I was going to drop my daughter at the agreed meeting place, but went to my ex's place instead as I had some things to drop off, only to find his car outside. I left immediately and notified my ex of what I had discovered and then my daughter told me that she had seen him before.
I have "threatened" to send a KR to his mission as we had an agreement and my ex said that it would "f*ck up 20 years of his studies"
I am not so naive to realise that there is not a lot I can do about this, but my ex has assured me my daughter will not be exposed to Scientology. I do not believe this one bit. However she has agreed to sign a legal custody document to say that I will have both Physical and Legal custody and there will be a "no scientology exposure" clause.
Bearing in mind that I am in the UK, does anyone have any ideas as to what else I should have in this document?

Thank you all in advance for your replies.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
If you're writing up this agreement on your own, I would advise you to at least have a lawyer look it over to make sure you're not including anything that is contrary to U.K. law in there (in the U.S. something like that could void the entire agreement in the worse case; at best, a court might just remove the offending clause).

I have extended family in the E.U., and it seems that every country has some low-cost legal aid type of place where you can have someone help you represent yourself - at least find one of those places in the U.K and have them look over it if affording full legal representation is not possible.

Also, I think that you should include Scientology front groups and other names of Scientology. For instance, the U.S. has Delphian Schools and Apple Schools that utilize L. Ron Hubbard's study tech. It's a back-door indoctrination process into Scientology for children. In the U.K. there is a place called Greedfields, I mean Greenfields School. Same thing - and a surprising number of teenagers drop out to join the Sea Org. Find out the names of all the U.K. front groups and write the no exposure to Scientology clause with something to the effect of "no exposure the Church of Scientology, the teachings of the Church of Scientology or L. Ron Hubbard, or any groups affiliated with the Church of Scientology or using the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard, including but not limited to" and list out the front groups that you have identified in the U.K.

Why I said this - I don't know if you've followed any of the Narconon threads on ESMB. The parents who called up Narconon and asked "Is this Scientology". The people who answered the phone deny it. And yet they admit that it is based on the research of L. Ron Hubbard, and it's not that hard to establish some degree of connection with the Co$. A clause that is as sweeping as you can get away with would cover all of these groups.

Also, Scientology is reputed to have a little something called TR-L - a training routine on how to lie effectively. I've never done it myself, but I've read about it on enough critical websites to believe that it probably exists. Your ex might not know about it, but if her boyfriend has been in for 20 years he probably does. Because they justify lying for the "greatest good," you'll want to get formal agreements in writing so they can't lie about what their understanding was later (things like threats to write up KR's are probably best left to telephone conversations though).

Edit: P.S. there are other things like a visitation schedule and who pays for what that all custody agreements should include in the U.S. My response is specific to Scientology exposure only.
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
Quite a dramatic day! I have found out that my ex's boyfriend has had contact with my daughter despite our agreement. I was going to drop my daughter at the agreed meeting place, but went to my ex's place instead as I had some things to drop off, only to find his car outside. I left immediately and notified my ex of what I had discovered and then my daughter told me that she had seen him before.
I have "threatened" to send a KR to his mission as we had an agreement and my ex said that it would "f*ck up 20 years of his studies"
I am not so naive to realise that there is not a lot I can do about this, but my ex has assured me my daughter will not be exposed to Scientology. I do not believe this one bit. However she has agreed to sign a legal custody document to say that I will have both Physical and Legal custody and there will be a "no scientology exposure" clause.
Bearing in mind that I am in the UK, does anyone have any ideas as to what else I should have in this document?

Thank you all in advance for your replies.

In reality you should have a lawyer draft it. State to him what you want I am sure he can find the language that suits you. You can also contact anyone here on this board (I would recommend Mick Wenlock, he seems to be fairly knowledgeable on such things) about the language to make sure it fits your needs.

You should make sure that you include language that covers drug rehabilitation, counseling, psychiatric/mental care, hospitalization and medication, any kinds of court actions should she get in trouble, disciplinary actions and schooling. Whether you have the sole power to make such decisions or whether such actions must be taken with mutual agreement.
 
Very good advice! Make it legal and try to cover all the bases.

Also, here we have to publish that we are not any longer financially responsible for another adult's debts, where we had any joint financial accounts, credit, loans, ownership, etc. So maybe get your attorney to check this out as well, so that she can't make any claims on you for financial support which will be given in "donations" to the COS or any of it's front groups.

A HUGE win that she is willing to give you custody. Jump on that, see an attorney, get the legal paperwork drafted and into a judge to be finalized right away.

Put everything else on the back burner and do this right away. :thumbsup:

Best wishes for you and your daughter! :)
 

Wants2Talk

Silver Meritorious Patron
Forget ever having a trusting relationship with your ex for you will be relating to CoS.
Review the threads of the bereaved due to disconnection on this board.
Anticipate the worst you can imagine.
Articulate this to your attorney. Don't mice words.
Get custody of the child, sue if need be.
Or, write of your child.
Start today.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
The only reason your ex would make a comment like this is if they consider you to be suppressive - an SP. If this is the case they will be white-anting your relationship with your daughter and attempting to alienate her affection.

Suggest you take a leaf out of Katie Holmes' book and safeguard your relationship with your child. Do your research. Get a better than great lawyer. Do it before you've already lost her.

Best of luck, and welcome.

Yep - THIS /|\ And :welcome2:
 

anglorob

New Member
Just to keep you guys updated, it appears that my ex is now getting cold feet over this agreement after she has consulted the CoS. She wants to know how I am going to define "Scientology" in the clause.
I am also having difficulty in locating a lawyer here in the UK who may have experience in dealing with cults. If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd be very grateful.

Does anyone know how I would be able to find the names of these "front groups" that has been spoken about?

Many thanks for your help again!
 
Yes, define it as "the Church of Scientology", "The Religious Technology Center", "The Church of Spiritual Technology", "The Sea Organization", and "The Commodores Messenger Organization", and "The International Association of Scientologists". These are all aspects (or divisions) of Organized Scientology.

Sounds complex for a church, doesn't it? But it's all part and parcel of the Cult, one big group with separate functions which keep the racket going.

The front groups are mainly:
CCHR, WISE, ABLE, Narconan, Criminon, Applied Scholastics, etc. there are a host of smaller ones, google Scientology front groups and do some research.

Start with these two websites:

http://www.lermanet.com/frontgroups.html
http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/9.htm

I think legally you could just say The church of Scientology, RTC, CST, CMO, SO, IAS, and all it's front groups which send money "uplines" to the management of COS, whatever their names are.

Don't look at this as a cult issue when choosing a lawyer, or look for some kind of a cult specialist... Look at this as a custody issue, a father's rights issue. There are a ton of divorce and family law attorneys which can help you. Some maybe even on a sliding scale cost or for pro bono.

You can educate your attorney about any Cult issues which may be involved. That is what everyone has to do. Don't give her any more time to get cold feet, or for OSA (COS's legal, spying, publicity and dirty tricks department) to handle her. Get busy and go to your local legal aide or social services and ask for a referral in a family law case, father's rights, custody case. Explain the bare bones of the situation and that you want to get legal and physical custody of your daughter. If all else fails, say that your former common law wife is going to enter a religious order, and will probably be sent out of the country and across the world to do missionary work. (This could possibly happen if she joins the SO).

I don't know if you and your ex were living together long enough to be considered common law spouses, but if so, it may help other to understand your situation if you to refer to her as your common law wife, rather than my old girlfriend or partner, it give you a different (better) legal standing, here at least, and I think there, too.

Good luck to you! :)
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Just to keep you guys updated, it appears that my ex is now getting cold feet over this agreement after she has consulted the CoS. She wants to know how I am going to define "Scientology" in the clause.
I am also having difficulty in locating a lawyer here in the UK who may have experience in dealing with cults. If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd be very grateful.

Does anyone know how I would be able to find the names of these "front groups" that has been spoken about?

Many thanks for your help again!

I sent you a private message :)
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Just to keep you guys updated, it appears that my ex is now getting cold feet over this agreement after she has consulted the CoS. She wants to know how I am going to define "Scientology" in the clause.

There's a surprise..... We totally called that one.

:yes:
 

Wants2Talk

Silver Meritorious Patron
Stop telegraphing. The Scientologists are trained to read your intent and create a game plan to get what they want. They see this as war - the end justifies any means.

Far be it from me to suggest you act accordingly. Your situation is more dire than you currently know. Your move should involve a private desperation beyond law if necessary.

Is that plain enough?
 
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