PSCYCHOLOGICAL DISORDERS AND HERBAL REMEDIES

[Voltaire's Child]

That's true. There are times and individuals who need meds and other treatments. And you know, the church doesn't even allow non Scn TALK therapy.

 

[anonymousmaple]

Problems with Scientologies Psychiatry

That was one of Gregor's major issues in Narconon. He felt "alone" and said, "Ive never been so stripped of myself in the middle of no where with no one, I call my mom twice a day" why do you think he had to reach out to his mom twice a day. Could it be that there was no individual therapy, no group therapy, and no help at all aside from their hardcore five hour saunas per day AFTER a half hour run through his letters while there, it was obvious that Gregor had NO ONE to talk to. As to the run, doctors say is one of the most dangerous things they do in combination with the sauna...also the niacin is a huge problem. They start you at a low dose and then bring it up to one so high that doctors have said that it can cause death. And people HAVE died as a result of Narconon's treatment. Just check out Narcononvictims.

http://www.narcononvictims.com/

As for a true mental illness like Bipolar Disorder, Depression, Anxiety, Mania, schitzophrenia, or Borderline Personality Disorder (to name a few) psychiatry does help. HOWEVER, it is the patients job to find the right psychiatrist and therapist. Many people have a hard time saying that a certain mental health professional is not for them. You should know by the third session. If you don't click with them, FIRE THEM, and find a new one.

Meds allowed me to be a teacher for ten years.

Being on medications is not fun. It does change your personality, it does affect your ability to work sometimes...sleep....sleep too much etc. BUT if things are that bad, you are on the wrong meds or med combination. I had a psychiatrist who kept adding meds ontop of meds until I was on six or seven at one time. I was like....something is not right here. I also challanged him on this and said, "don't you think we should take something away?" He just said take them. I wasn't satisfied with this...In order to get a new psychiatrist, after two weeks of calling every one listed in my blue Cross mental health book, I did something drastic. After all, I was having the spins, dropping to my knees in the shower because when I stood up everything spun and I almost passed out. I found out if I were to commit myself, they would not let me out with an immediate apointment with a psychiatrist. So... I went to the ER and said I was suicidal (lie) and went into the psych ward for a day and a half and walked out straight to an apointment with my favorite psychiatrist so far. BUT it's ridiculous that I had to do such a thing. I shouldn't have had to claim I was suidical and commit myself in order to get treatment! So, the system is not perfect.

I also suffered a very scary week due to lithium toxicity and ended up in the hospital for five days...when I came to...I couldn't remember anything that happened in the four days prior. I went off lithium for two months and then begged to be put back on it. It's the only thing for me that fends off those suicidal tendencies as well as depressions that leave you crying on the floor for days on end.

I want to bring up LISA MCPHERSON here because I imagine from what I've read and watched....that she was trying to get out of the church because she knew something was mentally wrong with her and that she knew she wouldn't get help if she stayed in the Scientology world. Also, she may have figured out that their auditing was placing her at risk. This is why she so drastically took off all her clothes...She was desperately trying to get the attention of a NON Scientology individual, and she did. But they got her anyway because they were responsible for her condition in the first place. Often the mentally ill will do drastic things to get help.

Herbal remedies can help certain conditions. They won't help you in the long run if you have a serious mental illness that needs attention.

 

[Dark Phoenix]

That was one of Gregor's major issues in Narconon. He felt "alone" and said, "Ive never been so stripped of myself in the middle of no where with no one, I call my mom twice a day" why do you think he had to reach out to his mom twice a day. Could it be that there was no individual therapy, no group therapy, and no help at all aside from their hardcore five hour saunas per day AFTER a half hour run through his letters while there, it was obvious that Gregor had NO ONE to talk to. As to the run, doctors say is one of the most dangerous things they do in combination with the sauna...also the niacin is a huge problem. They start you at a low dose and then bring it up to one so high that doctors have said that it can cause death. And people HAVE died as a result of Narconon's treatment. Just check out Narcononvictims.

http://www.narcononvictims.com/
As for a true mental illness like Bipolar Disorder, Depression, Anxiety, Mania, schitzophrenia, or Borderline Personality Disorder (to name a few) psychiatry does help. HOWEVER, it is the patients job to find the right psychiatrist and therapist. Many people have a hard time saying that a certain mental health professional is not for them. You should know by the third session. If you don't click with them, FIRE THEM, and find a new one.

Meds allowed me to be a teacher for ten years.

Being on medications is not fun. It does change your personality, it does affect your ability to work sometimes...sleep....sleep too much etc. BUT if things are that bad, you are on the wrong meds or med combination. I had a psychiatrist who kept adding meds ontop of meds until I was on six or seven at one time. I was like....something is not right here. I also challanged him on this and said, "don't you think we should take something away?" He just said take them. I wasn't satisfied with this...In order to get a new psychiatrist, after two weeks of calling every one listed in my blue Cross mental health book, I did something drastic. After all, I was having the spins, dropping to my knees in the shower because when I stood up everything spun and I almost passed out. I found out if I were to commit myself, they would not let me out with an immediate apointment with a psychiatrist. So... I went to the ER and said I was suicidal (lie) and went into the psych ward for a day and a half and walked out straight to an apointment with my favorite psychiatrist so far. BUT it's ridiculous that I had to do such a thing. I shouldn't have had to claim I was suidical and commit myself in order to get treatment! So, the system is not perfect.

I also suffered a very scary week due to lithium toxicity and ended up in the hospital for five days...when I came to...I couldn't remember anything that happened in the four days prior. I went off lithium for two months and then begged to be put back on it. It's the only thing for me that fends off those suicidal tendencies as well as depressions that leave you crying on the floor for days on end.

I want to bring up LISA MCPHERSON here because I imagine from what I've read and watched....that she was trying to get out of the church because she knew something was mentally wrong with her and that she knew she wouldn't get help if she stayed in the Scientology world. Also, she may have figured out that their auditing was placing her at risk. This is why she so drastically took off all her clothes...She was desperately trying to get the attention of a NON Scientology individual, and she did. But they got her anyway because they were responsible for her condition in the first place. Often the mentally ill will do drastic things to get help.

Herbal remedies can help certain conditions. They won't help you in the long run if you have a serious mental illness that needs attention.

This is very informative about what it's really like to live with Bipolar Disorder. And I'm sure the same difficulties are experienced by others with similar conditions.

There is no effecitve cure for mental illness. Whether it's Bipolar, Scizophrenia, or schizo-effective disorder, it's only the symptons that are treated. It's a condition one must live with and learn to manage

First off , after being diagnosed, that person may need to try many differnet types of medication before finally getting the one that works for them. This can be very frustrating because the way the medication works, it needs to be taken for 2 to 3 months before the doctor can determine what the next step is. If the person is not reponding positivly and/or is experiencing difficult side effects, the doctor tries the person on another medication, and the cycle starts all over again and again.

When you do finally get on the right medication, you can start to function and live life in a much better frame of mind. Something to be aware of though is that despite the right medication and you life is out of a black hole, you can still get the odd days and periods of time where the symptoms can rear their head. But at least not as bad if you were not on the correct medication, and not as frequent.

And on top of this you still have to live your life, hold down a job, pay your bills, maybe raise children,etc.

I know we all have a trials and tribulations in life but I just wanted to show an understanding of how much harder life can be when also battling a mental condition.

 

[anonymousmaple]

Dark

I'm curious if you have heard of Dr. John Breeding. He's on youtube. the thing is he says there is no such thing as mental illness...


I do know that things that end up in the DSM IV come out of a meeting of head psychiatrists who notice something new and then it goes into the book. I do know that there is no direct way to prove any of them.....and I also know there is no test to prove you have a chemical imbalance. These things are true and well known. It's all based on behavior.

But if you are on the floor crying for four months it's not regular depression that you can come out of. There is a problem there. I mean it's just odd that this guy makes the claims he makes. Check it out just type in his name and you'll see. I just don't know what to think.

Scientology is ending baby!

 

[angel]

In regards to your comment that you can tell that some posters are still in Scientology, just because someone takes herbals opposed to synthetic drugs does not mean they are in scientology. There is a big herbal world out there full of people who know nothing about Scn.

I really do feel for you. I just think it is very important to understand that many synthetic drugs are copies of ancient herbal remedies. The drug manufacturerers cannot patent many natural cures so they make up synthetic copies. The nautural being better for your system of course and the synthetic can be rejected and cancer causing.

Thank God I am not battling mental illness, but I am pretty sure everyone has someone who they are connected to that is. My battles are with pre-cancer cells, my husbands cancer, and the damage to my digestive tract caused by prescribed antibiotics restimulated by the purif. I am finding herbals to be curing as opposed to sythetic meds that cover up. I have learned that if If I really want to cure something I need to study and find the root cause and treat that. My method of learning is scientology, but the method of treating is called preventive and it does not mean I am in Scientology.

My anxiety disappeared by treating my hormone imbalance. It was much to my surprise because that is not what I was attempting to treat. It is much nicer to be so calm, happy, content and laid back. Are hormones considered chemical? I never really understood chemical imbalance because of Scn I never delved into the psych world.

Best of luck to ya,
Jen

 

[anonymousmaple]

hi

I'm sorry I didn't mean I make such a broad statement. That was not my intention. I do NOT think that everyone who takes herbal remedies is a Scientologist.

 

[Dark Phoenix]

Psy sruff

I'm curious if you have heard of Dr. John Breeding. He's on youtube. the thing is he says there is no such thing as mental illness...


I do know that things that end up in the DSM IV come out of a meeting of head psychiatrists who notice something new and then it goes into the book. I do know that there is no direct way to prove any of them.....and I also know there is no test to prove you have a chemical imbalance. These things are true and well known. It's all based on behavior.

But if you are on the floor crying for four months it's not regular depression that you can come out of. There is a problem there. I mean it's just odd that this guy makes the claims he makes. Check it out just type in his name and you'll see. I just don't know what to think.

Scientology is ending baby!

Hey anonmaple,

When you say a 'regular' depression I assume you mean the symptoms are milder, less frequent, or even non-existant when compared to your own depressive episode.

When Breeding talks about depression, he doesn't make any differentiation between the levels of severity, or whether acute or chronic. I'm not sure what your own experiences have been, but psychologists tend to deal with the less severe or non-psychotic cases.

Also bear in mind that Breeding is a psychologist, not a medical doctor or a psychiatrist. It makes sense that his theory or viewpoint promotes the tools and methods of his own trade. He also flat out dismisses antidepressents Watch from 2.10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-waYj1otvhY


So having looked at a couple of his videos, the central idea that Breeding is trying to get across is that what modern day psychiatry considers to be a mental illnesss, let's say depression, Breeding considers same as not only not being an illness but also a neccessary condition for a person in a given life situation.Instead of treating the person with antidepressants, as the psychiatrist would, Breeding suggests the person accept their depression and try to understand that this is a necessary transformative stage, vital to our growth as human beings.

I've come across something similar before from the psychiatrist,Peter Breggin who wrote the book 'Toxic Psychiatry'. He too started to look at mental illness as prehaps having a purpose or function. By going without medication for whatever condition the person is in, means it is allowed to run it's natural course, uninterrupted and unpoluted.This ensures the person gets the maximum benefit, in terms of human growth.


It's an interesting way of looking at mental illness.

But you're quite right, there are a few practical issues with it. I'm not sure how this would work with the severly mentally ill and the chronics. And those who can function in the real world to the extent of holding down a job and paying the bills can only do so because of the medication they are on. And if people were actually willing to go through an unmedicated depression, would all the the necessary supports be in place for everyone?

Like I said, it's an interesting interpretation but maybe a little too idealistic It's very vague on what type and severity of illness would be appropriate for this kind of approch.

I hope this helps some.

 

[bluewiggirl]

"Trying to kill yourself" is never a reasonable reaction to events, and yet even with moderate depression suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts come up in many, many cases. There is a problem with people trying to take a pill to remove any unpleasantness in their lives, but there's also a huge problem with people assuming that anyone taking medication for mental illness is doing so for the wrong reasons.

And I am sick unto death of the "there's no test for a chemical imbalance" argument. Seriously, you have NO IDEA how offensive that crap is. I am seriously too to even argue with you about it, it's that bad. Pretty much the only thing you could say that would be worse is "you mocked up your mental illness."

 

[uniquemand]

I'm a person who makes that argument, BWG (not the "you mocked it up", although "I mocked it up" might be accurate in my case). While I agree that the argument has been abused by CCHR and similar types, the lack of objective testing criteria HAS led to over-medication, misdiagnosis, and the APPEARANCE of propriety. It's like my saying that because people who have PMS are often irritable, anyone who is irritable should be diagnosed as PMS, and medicated. It's just poor logic, and though many people will accept it as being valid, it's not an equivalence relation. Irritability can have many causes, and so can depression. If the cause is not biochemical, and the argument that it "is" is circular, then why is it being medicated?

 

[bluewiggirl]

I'm a person who makes that argument, BWG (not the "you mocked it up", although "I mocked it up" might be accurate in my case). While I agree that the argument has been abused by CCHR and similar types, the lack of objective testing criteria HAS led to over-medication, misdiagnosis, and the APPEARANCE of propriety. It's like my saying that because people who have PMS are often irritable, anyone who is irritable should be diagnosed as PMS, and medicated. It's just poor logic, and though many people will accept it as being valid, it's not an equivalence relation. Irritability can have many causes, and so can depression. If the cause is not biochemical, and the argument that it "is" is circular, then why is it being medicated?

Because some depression does not respond to other treatments in the long term, and in the short term the patient's mood needs to be stabilized for long enough for them to even try other therapies. That's like asking why someone with a migraine is going to take medication for it. We have no idea exactly what causes migraines in most cases, and the best we can do for people is to hand them some painkillers and caffeine and hope that it kicks in before they go blind for a couple seconds, preferably not while driving. It's like saying you shouldn't let an amputee use a wheelchair because that doesn't treat the fact that they're missing a leg. Yes, there is misdiagnosis and overmedication, but the cause of that isn't our unfortunately limited understanding of mental illness, it's a cultural reliance on drugs to solve EVERYTHING, excessive and completely inappropriate advertising and pressure on doctors, pushy and misinformed parents, and in some cases sheer mental laziness on the part of patients. These problems are not limited to mental illness and overmedication and misdiagnosis aren't either.

There is no test for depression is bullshit. You spend more than two weeks with a mood so bad you are seriously considering suicide, have eating and sleep problems and difficulty taking care of the most basic tasks? That's probably depression, and your doctor can do tests to rule out other physical factors (such as a thyroid disorder which creates very similar symptoms) and a qualified therapist can help determine whether it's severe enough to warrant medication and/or hospitalization. There's no fucking mystery there. Whether the depression was INITIALLY caused by thought patterns or behaviors or a biological chemical imbalance is completely irrelevant once the patient has reached a crisis point, it needs to be treated chemically and then the patient needs to learn how to manage their depression by engaging in mentally healthy behaviors and gaining control over potentially dangerous thought processes.

 

[uniquemand]

You're talking about an acute condition, where intervention is necessary, where most diagnosis of depression is NOT acute, but instead long-term and chronic depression, with no suicidal ideation and slight to no interference with regular function. Certainly, where it's acute, intervention is necessary (drugs being one of those interventions, change of environment another, supervision, etc.), but that is not the bulk of the cases.

While I understand your emphasis that a person knows when they are depressed, this doesn't obviate the need for objective criteria to establish MEDICAL causes for depression. It's one thing to say you think a person has depressive characteristics, and another thing to say they have a MEDICAL cause of depression. Again, in acute cases, intervene right away, but in others, establishing actual cause strikes me as being more responsible.

 

[bluewiggirl]

You're talking about an acute condition, where intervention is necessary, where most diagnosis of depression is NOT acute, but instead long-term and chronic depression, with no suicidal ideation and slight to no interference with regular function. Certainly, where it's acute, intervention is necessary (drugs being one of those interventions, change of environment another, supervision, etc.), but that is not the bulk of the cases.

While I understand your emphasis that a person knows when they are depressed, this doesn't obviate the need for objective criteria to establish MEDICAL causes for depression. It's one thing to say you think a person has depressive characteristics, and another thing to say they have a MEDICAL cause of depression. Again, in acute cases, intervene right away, but in others, establishing actual cause strikes me as being more responsible.

You will have to forgive me then, the vast majority of my experience with depression has been cases like what I have described, both in myself and others. I agree that mild cases of depression can and should be treated with less drastic methods than medication when such treatments are effective for the patient. I am very much used to the risk/benefit assessment being based on a "if this doesn't get dealt with in the next week there might be a corpse on our hands" situation, and not one where the person's daily life was largely unaffected.

I agree that the way we deal with non-crisis situations is still pretty screwed up, especially with CCHR's favorite condition ADHD, but it seems to me that this situation stems more from a broken medical system than massive flaws in the way mental illness is defined. The over-prescription and use of antibiotics in cases where it's completely inappropriate in my mind is an excellent parallel to the overprescription of, say, ritalin.

 

[uniquemand]

I would argue that you had your finger on the pulse, and disregarded it when you said that it doesn't stem from "...massive flaws in the way mental illness is defined". I think that's exactly the problem.

 

[bluewiggirl]

I would argue that you had your finger on the pulse, and disregarded it when you said that it doesn't stem from "...massive flaws in the way mental illness is defined". I think that's exactly the problem.

If that was the problem we wouldn't see the same issues in dealing with other illnesses, and we clearly do.

 

[uniquemand]

I think that's the underlying problem in Psychology/Psychiatry. This doesn't mean they don't also have the problems more generally associated with medicine, as well.

 

[bluewiggirl]

I'll just be happy when they stop advertising prescription medication to the general public. $10 says that cures a lot of what's ailing the health system

 

[uniquemand]

Direct marketing to "the consumer" shows the pharmaceutical companies attitudes about their "product". I agree that this practice must stop to prevent "drug-seeking behavior". However, until medical professionals have a verified model of what the mind is, they are likely to continue treating symptoms with meds, showing the assumption that the condition is medical.

 

[anonymousmaple]

This Concerns Me UM

I can tell you for myself.... that I knew something was wrong with me from about age 14 on. I did not get the proper psychological treatment until I was 26. During the previous years in therapy psychiatrists/therapists were so distracted by my experiences with severe sexual abuse that they couldn't see that there was another problem. I was labeled Multiple Personality Disorder, and PTSD. I did not buy into the diagnosis of MPD and fired two separate psychiatrists because of this. Now, these were terrible mistakes they were making and I would not have it. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who can't see past what the psychiatrist/therapist is saying because they put these people in a very high position in their mind. Some people are not equipped to properly research and then challange what their psch/therapist is saying. These are the people I do worry for in the world of psychiatry.

However, for those of us who realize that WE are in charge of our therapy and that we CAN fire psychs who we do not agree with or who are trying to convince us of things that we know are not true.

It takes a lot of time and determination to find the right people to talk to. Yes, my symptoms up until age 26 had a lot to do with my abuse. But there was something else and I kept searching for the right person with a diagnosis that fit. Once I found that person I was so relieved. I could be treated with medications and then be able to go into therapy and actually deal with the abuse issues that I had. Up until then my moods and behaviors only allowed for daily life conversations. These things were PREVENTING me from being able to progress and deal with the severe abuse I experienced. It took seven years of weekly therapy for me to finish dealing with the abuse. Someone who has been abused, never fully recovers and will always experience triggers and flashbacks but they become very far and few between. I can't remember the last time I experienced either of those things.

I then graduated from therapy (so she wasnt' after money), meaning my therapist said you know what? you are finished. You are done. Since then I have never had to return to therapy.

Not everyone can do that. People with lower IQ's or personalities that are so damaged by abuse etc. arent' able to manage their mental health in the way I was able to. When i was put on too much medication I protested and then left the psychiatrist i'd been with for years. He had me on six or seven meds and all had bad interactions with each other and he should never have prescribed all of those to me. I found a new psychiatrist, which is a big job, and she was shocked at the combination this guy had me on. I'm now on three medications. One for sleep, one is a mood stabalizer, and the last is for anxiety and sleep.

People need to educate themselves about the psychiatric world. There are several different methods of therapy and you know...the drug companies really push their medications on these psychiatrists. It's ridiculous. You have to be a good self advocate. I'm very serious about that. You have to know that even with all their degrees and certifications on the walls of their offices ... YOU are still in charge.

But I really disagree with the way Scientology makes these blanket claims about psychiatry. There are really bad people in every field of life. As a teacher I saw many who should have quit years before because they hated it and treated the kids badly because of it. The same thing goes for any field of study and work. There are bad people eveywhere. Logic would tell a normal person that. And, FORCEABLY PREVENTING someone from getting treatment when something is obviously wrong...i.e. Lisa McPherson is criminal.

 

[uniquemand]

I guess what you are saying (in terms of "this concerns me UM") is that you object to the way Scientologists categorically despise and even target psychologists and psychiatrists (particularly psychiatrists)? I would hope you would object to that.

If that's not what you were objecting to, I'm not sure what you are saying.

Thanks for your personal story, and the conclusions you drew from it.

 

[anonymousmaple]

EXACTLY

Yes, this is what I'm saying I'm simply trying to point out that not all psychiatrists/therapists are bad. Part of the reason Scientology does not allow psychiatric treatment is that most of the decent ones would absolutly recognize that Scientology's auditing sessions are hypnotic and offer no real help. That is the reason why the "psychs" are so evil. They would most definitely advise the Scientologist patient that Scientology is a fraud and is not providing the "treatment" they claim to deliver.