Patron with Honors
The other day I was recalling the roller coaster ride I was on while doing the PTS SP course. I experienced the feeling of intense introspection and was feeling badly about myself on and off throughout. To add to this, I was told by the lead supervisor that it was common for students on this course to go through rough patches. He even stated "usually their life crashes or falls apart when they are doing this course" This was at Flag. I was very relieved to finish that course. I'm not saying it was all bad, I did gain from having Hubbards perspective on the various aspects of behavior at different points on the tone scale (the best part of the course in my opinion, most applicable) but there were times when I was certainly questioning my own character. At times I felt so upset and down on my self I could hardly see my way through the day. It was VERY dark. I would NEVER go through that again. There was NO major "win" or popping out "the other side" of it. It was just a matter of endurance.

I should also mention that at the time I was being MADE to do this course, I was in a dicey area in regards to my auditing. That probably made it a lot worse. Note to the OSA and the C/S....I hope you take this into account, and make sure a PC is complete on a major action before putting someone through this course, not in the middle of a major rundown. This was the start of a year long downward slide for me, and I place much responsibility on the C/S and who ever else was concerned with "grooming" my viewpoint.

The net result was that I was even more convinced I was not PTS and even more convinced I was in a cult. It was the start of the end.

Anyway, I am wondering if there are others out there that had a similar experience while on that course, or what your viewpoint was about it.


PTS|SP course has some validity, but is junior to the laws of "correct ownership of charge" that one ventures in to on the pre-OT levels. I have known people that had "rough areas" of case pre-OT that reduced to tears on finding out that it wasn't their charge, it was some one else's when going solo.

This, to me, is the REAL danger of the "Non-interference Zone". The person is now more aware, and bumping into "composite case" that IS not his own. But if you mis-own it, and think it is yours, it does not As-is, and in fact can go more solid, act as a wrong indication, etc.


Silver Meritorious Patron
The PTS/SP Detection Routing and Handling Course was the last action I did in scientology. I was long gone quite a long time before GAT was introduced; no doubt at least some of the course materials have changed.

I liked the course. My big cognition on that course was that the Church of Scientology was a suppressive organization in which there had to be (according to the materials on the course, approved by LRH himself) severe "out-ethics" at the "top" of the organization.

As I was at the very bottom of the food chain -- failed staff, public with no money, struggling to gather enough resources to do any services at all -- I had no access to the details of the behavior of those at the top until a few years ago when I got hooked up to the internet and I was able to learn what I now know about LRH himself -- his history, his lies, his behavior, and (what I interpret from that to be) his true intentions.

Suspicions confirmed after a quarter century "out."

Short version of the story is: the otherwise inexplicable personal "roller coastering" went away 'way back then when I quietly "disconnected" from the Church of Scientology. :thumbsup:


Gold Meritorious Patron

I too did the PTS/Sp course,though I did the "old" one. It was during one of the worst times in my life.Did it help? Not at all. It served only to introvert me more.

I worked as an EO for many years in the cult and have recently come to the conclusion that this so called ethics "tech"is simply mind control. It is a means to isolate and handle or offload the dissenters. That would be anyone who is not a good little boy or girl and follows what papa Hubbard or now Mighty Midget tells us to do.

Were there goods thing on the course? Of course there were but like you said, you would never do it again. Doesn't that tell you something. You and I probably had mus,yes that's it.

I must add that I am in what seems like a philosophical limbo. At this stage of the game I feel like I really know very little about those things I thought I knew about;therefore, I refrain from making comments on the "tech." I have done quit a bit of reading and soul searching and I guess I've done a prolonged doubt formula regarding Scientology as a whole. No I did not sit down and write the formula but I took an honest look at the last 28 years of my life and along with the research that I did, I have come to the conclusion that this is a subject that I will not spend another minute on.

I just know that by being out and being free to try other things, I am happier than I've been in years. I guess that is what matters after all.

I hope others have the same cog you did upon finishing that course:coolwink:


Patron with Honors
Anyway, I am wondering if there are others out there that had a similar experience while on that course, or what your viewpoint was about it.

I did the old PTS/SP course after the Student hat very early in my scilon career. I spent at least a year after the course, convinced, that if I was not an SP, I was so close to one it didn't matter. I had a very hard time of it. The trouble was, I believed every word of the tech, and I didn't question it - per KSW of course. I lost all my non-scilon friends as I thought they were potential SPs, and really never made any new ones while I was in the cult. It was a very isolating and lonely experience - not to be recommended.


Patron Meritorious
I got extremely sick while on the GAT PTS/SP course. That is what got me out of $cientology.
I also know a friend that had accidents she never had before while on it.

ok, I get that some things might get 'turned on' while on it but to that degree? Sorry, something is awfully wrong there.

Some bad stuff gets turned on soooooooo bad that it turns your life upside down to a point of almost no return? :confused2:

Bravo to the GAT! :clap: :D (I'm sarcastic people).

Gosh, I will be so happy the day all the damn shit finally hits the fan and the truths Scientologists dont want to see will have to be face. Which means DM and the total tech squirreling that has been allowed to happen.


Patron Meritorious
oh and one more thing...

With what I experienced with the GAT PTS/SP, I am not one bit surprised so many $cientologists gets cancer and dies. Or other diseases. Or have mental breakdowns.
Not surprised at all...

The mind is a VERY complex mechanism. Unless you know what the f*** you are doing, dont go there, dont touch that cause if you screw it up, it cant be fix with a fuckin bandaid. And than others have to pick up the pieces.


Rogue male
It is one of those urban legends that "everybody knows", when you study a course or do a rundown in SCN you will dramatize it until it is "flat". There is some truth in it.

A thetan is a remarkably creative unit and tends to mock up what he or she has there attention on. That's my understanding of it anyway. After I arrived at this conclusion I had to re do the PTS SP course GAT style and had little problem, where I previously struggled through it back in '88-'89 dramatizing my "PTSness" all the way. At times it was a pretty miserable affair.

When I did my academy levels a course sup said to me (while I was on level 4- service facsimile technology) "Gee I'll be glad when you finish this level" WTF? It him who was wrong! LOL! (He's now a member of this board):thumbsup:

Terril park

I'm fairly familiar with most PTS/SP and ethics materials. I consider them
useful tools with the proviso that there is a definite intention for the well being of the individual rather than some sort of social conditioning.

I suspect most of the problems in this area is with wrong indications. Like
just for starters " you are PTS."

As an example someone I was intermittantly in contact with for some years
used to routinely be asked to redo a pts /sp course. This was often when He'd watch a football game on TV with his brother. The brother thought scientology was nuts. He was actually cause over the sit as he and bro had great times watching the game. THE COS was in fact acting as a third party and giving him wrong indications re being PTS.

He just wanted to do his bridge and this was used as a stop for many years. I'm sure he's out of COS and no longer interested in tech anymore.