PTS Type D - Whine not!

OK Gaddy,

They had some PTS tech going in the mid sixties - I had to disconnect from some class mate at college - I was so out of it, I had no clue whatsoever what in hell they were talking about. Back then, I couldn't tell the difference between an SP and the ice cream man. Man, am I glad all the pot I smoked in college finally wore off. Jeeze Louise.

Then in the early 70's I got a c/s series 78 (Questionnaire about pts to locations, etc. ) and man, did that not indicate. They told me I needed a PTS rundown after all of the BS I said. I mean, I was saying all sorts of crazy hypothetical crap, like "well, if I was in Germany my last life, I guess I would have been in a prisoner of war camp - I wouldn't have liked being there" ( LF ) I think the auditor and the C/S must have been out to lunch that day. But, it all got handled with a nifty L-4 by my next auditor, and I never did the PTS rd.

I'll spare you the 10 augs I got at flag - I have already nattered enough about those. Man, get me going and the Scio lingo flies! LOL.

Mimsey
 

Gadfly

Crusader
OK Gaddy,

They had some PTS tech going in the mid sixties - I had to disconnect from some class mate at college - I was so out of it, I had no clue whatsoever what in hell they were talking about. Back then, I couldn't tell the difference between an SP and the ice cream man. Man, am I glad all the pot I smoked in college finally wore off. Jeeze Louise.

Then in the early 70's I got a c/s series 78 (Questionnaire about pts to locations, etc. ) and man, did that not indicate. They told me I needed a PTS rundown after all of the BS I said. I mean, I was saying all sorts of crazy hypothetical crap, like "well, if I was in Germany my last life, I guess I would have been in a prisoner of war camp - I wouldn't have liked being there" ( LF ) I think the auditor and the C/S must have been out to lunch that day. But, it all got handled with a nifty L-4 by my next auditor, and I never did the PTS rd.

I'll spare you the 10 augs I got at flag - I have already nattered enough about those. Man, get me going and the Scio lingo flies! LOL.

Mimsey

Thank-you. :thumbsup:

What about A-J CHECKS?

Since you were in for the mid-1960s, were A-J checks routinely done when you first got it? If not, when did they start (as best as you can recall)?

As far as I know they were/are always done on a meter.

They are in fact a sort of security check - to make sure that you won't end up causing the org any trouble (i.e. thus keep the org secure in its safety).

"Security Checks" (not the same as A-J checks but similar in regards to purpose) have ALWAYS and ONLY been about the SAFETY of Scientology.
 
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Gib

Crusader
Thank-you. :thumbsup:

What about A-J CHECKS?

Since you were in for the mid-1960s, were A-J checks routinely done when you first got it? If not, when did they start (as best as you can recall)?

As far as I know they were always done on a meter.

You just gave me a cog. If one believes in the emeter and believes in the trust of it as well as the auditor reading it, well then one believes in scientology. Of course scientology means knowing and not believing. That's a switch er ro.

:melodramatic:
 

Operating DB

Truman Show Dropout
. *snip*Sorry Ron, but YOU ARE responsible for the many bad effects that you caused in others (both as members of the cult or as recipients of your nasty GO/OSA attacks). *snip*

Dee-amn! I just had another wognition. Hell Wrong was responsible for my being PTS while in the cult. I'm surprised he didn't have a letter designation for that type of PTS condition. Well, I here and right now am classifying a "new" but very old (62 years) and up until now hidden PTS condition (beyond the whole alphabet soup that bungholio hubturd created.)

It's called PTS type LRH.
And there's one more after that called PTS Type OSA. I discovered these from studying the non-existent OT levels IX-XV.

Thank you! That'll be $500,000 dollars please! Credit cards accepted. Call now! Operators are standing by! If you call within the next ten microseconds you'll get the new "I'm PTS to LRH, the SP, Course" thrown in for free!

(FYI, I just got back from a wonderful out ethics dinner with two very wonderful woggy friends that included two Beefeaters martinis, no vermouth, with olives. Thank you for listening.) :puke2:
 
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Operating DB

Truman Show Dropout
Oh! And one more thing! I'm not sure what post prompted me to look up when Quentin Hubbard took his life or was offed by the scn mafia. He died on November 12, 1976. This was one year and 28 days after I was sucked into the cult.

Upon hearing such cognitive dissonant news wouldn't you think I would have stopped and said "Whoa, WTF?" (even though WTF was not a coined acronym back then). Here is the son of the greatest philosopher and discoverer of all time and his son dies because of a humongous ARC break? Shouldn't the son of the greatest thinker of all time be immune from all evil and be all that and a bag of chips?

Just goes to show you the power of suggestion and L. Con was a master(bater) at it!

Damn! Even Quentins sad demise didn't shake me out of the mind uck-fay. And that was merely a little over a year after getting conned into the cult!

It doesn't take long to have one's mind uck-fayed beyond recognition.
 
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Since you were in for the mid-1960s, were A-J checks routinely done when you first got it? If not, when did they start (as best as you can recall)?
You know, I can't recall specifically when I got them - I know I even gave one when I was on the BC back in the early 70's. But for some odd reason they just weren't very memorable. I got a crap load of auditing back then - it's pretty much a blur. I got some a-j checks at flag some time in the late 80's.

I think I don't recall much of them because I never did any PTS handlings afterwards. It was just another assesment they were doing on me.

Mimsey
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
My "first contact" was in the mid-70's. A to J's were done routinely, both in HCO and the Tech Div...
Same in ANZO. As far as I remember they were done routinely for anyone getting onto Major Service Lines, with new Div6 Public they were most commonly done if and when the New Public person ran into some kind of Slow, Stop or apparent "Counter Intention".
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
My wife, who is the wise one in our marriage had a wonderful comment to my proposed thread. I read her this:

Title: "SP Needs Advice"
I have a client who frequently blames me for the problems that come up on various jobs I do for him. He is a Scientologist, & since he is making me responsible for his condition, he is obviously PTS type D.

As a declared SP, what should I do?

She laughed, then launched in to how an indi friend of ours wants to get his nots. She asked, have you ever noticed, all of NOTs auditing (including OT 3 & 4) is about making someone else responsible for your condition? That everybody on OT 7 is really PTS type D? When we would go to FLAG for our 6 mos checks, she would notice how the 7's there would frequently whine. And look at the EP - Cause over life - couldn't that also be the EP of PTS type D handling - no longer making others responsible for your condition?

"Our indi friend," she remarked, "is abberated on the 2D, and so he is looking to auditing out the BT's that are making him that way, to solve his case. That is why I told him 'best of luck with the NOTS, I understand the urge to blame someone else' "

I had never realized that, but isn't that what many parts of Scientology's bridge is all about? Blaming somebody else? And wasn't that Hubbard's problem?

I don't know if you ever read the interview with Kima Douglas, LRH's nurse, but he really comes across as wildly PTS D.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/kima.htm

My wife's comment on reading the above post was "PTS D is crap - it is just making others responsible for the crap we don't like about our selves - Ron just had to put a label on it. The whole bridge is about being effect. He was brilliant at selling that, making everybody believe they were effect, and his bridge would solve that. It would make them cause. Everybody has a case and each one is unique. We all have to grapple with it."

Mimsey

PS: PTS type D is a person who make others responsible for his condition - you harmed me etc. In Hubbard's SP /PTS [STRIKE]tech[/STRIKE] mythology the person who is PTS has a SP who is making the person roller coaster - get gains and lose them. The person comes along and says "Scientology made me more able." and the sp says, "Really? How come you still live in a dump?" and the person caves in and runs to the org. The MAA tells the PC to disconnect from the "SP". But really - what is PTS trying to solve? The fact Scientology's gains are transitory, meaning they don't last. So, instead of saying the tech doesn't work all that well, Hubbard says it's the SP - he's making you lose your gains, and than sends you on a wild goose chase to find the SP instead of fixing the tech. Neat huh?

M

All newbies out and Indies would benefit by reading the Kima Douglas interview linked above by Mimsey. Marty's followers sure could use such a reality check. :yes:
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
In some ways Scientology is a self fulfilling prophecy.

It happens in this way:

The more it acts like the paranoid criminal conspiracy that it is the more enemies it creates, thus strengthening its Type III world view version and causing it to act even more with suspicion because it, and Ron, are "right"...sort of like the U.S. foreign policy with the chickens coming home to roost.

Notice what happens when TC becomes more "KSW" what with all that unreasonable hammering and knocking out of existence and door shutting and slamming and what have you...you know the stuff, the REAL ARC of Scientology.

Same goes for Ron and Scientology Inc and the belligerent midget (billige-RUNT), the more KSW they become the more certain they are the more rigid their positionality the more mired and inflexible they are the more enemies and resistance is created.

It's Enantiodromia.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
In some ways Scientology is a self fulfilling prophecy.

It happens in this way:

The more it acts like the paranoid criminal conspiracy that it is the more enemies it creates, thus strengthening its Type III world view version and causing it to act even more with suspicion because it, and Ron, are "right"...sort of like the U.S. foreign policy with the chickens coming home to roost.

Notice what happens when TC becomes more "KSW" what with all that unreasonable hammering and knocking out of existence and door shutting and slamming and what have you...you know the stuff, the REAL ARC of Scientology.

Same goes for Ron and Scientology Inc and the belligerent midget (billige-RUNT), the more KSW they become the more certain they are the more rigid their positionality the more mired and inflexible they are the more enemies and resistance is created.

It's Enantiodromia.

Yep! :thumbsup:

Scientology IS its own worse enemy.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Yep! :thumbsup:

Scientology IS its own worse enemy.


LOL! What a batshit basket case I am! The whole purpose to my post was to point out that merely being a KSW Stupidologist makes one PTS! And then I didn't write that or make it clear, I'm losing my marbles, I tell ya!

How?

Because that valence of Ron's creates/manufactures antagonism!
 

Gadfly

Crusader
You keep saying that. But it's "worst enemy." :)

Paul
Grammar :nazi:

You are right. I am wrong! I am an imbecile!!!!!!!

:hide:

I am the worse sort of idiot!

And, YOU are worst than me!!!!! :biggrin: :lol:

Plus, ya know, it could be a "typo", and not due to being grammatically-challenged. "e" and "t" are very close together on the keyboard, and my "e" key is so faded I can't really read that it's an "e" - and I type with two fingers - and I LOOK at the keys as I type.

But, the truth is . . . . . I do often make that mistake even though I do know the difference in usages. :duh:

And, it could be even worser . . . . :hysterical:
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
You are right. I am wrong! I am an imbecile!!!!!!!

:hide:

I am the worse sort of idiot!

And, YOU are worst than me!!!!! :biggrin: :lol:

Plus, ya know, it could be a "typo", and not due to being grammatically-challenged. "e" and "t" are very close together on the keyboard, and my "e" key is so faded I can't really read that it's an "e" - and I type with two fingers - and I LOOK at the keys as I type.

But, the truth is . . . . . I do often make that mistake even though I do know the difference in usages. :duh:

And, it could be even worser . . . . :hysterical:

This is the worstest post ever.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
This is the worstest post ever.

:hysterical: :thumbsup:

That reminds of "most smartest". This (to me) is one of the funniest movies of all time (it is a "black comedy"). I think Any Adams had her first role in it as the hot cheerleader. Anyway, this clip always cracks me up (watch near the end as she tries to pick up the cameraman):

[video=youtube;k81YBpQMLVQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k81YBpQMLVQ[/video]

Here is Amy Adams as a (very well acted and hilarious) Leslie Miller:

[video=youtube;D3nRywGHZNs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3nRywGHZNs[/video]
 

Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
I got in in the mid '70's and don't recall an A to J check. Although I remember giving them in the early 80's to prospective (and illiterate) staff. I do remember Carl Bredemier in the Boston org ask me, "Are you here for any other reason than what you state?"

I about crapped my pants. What kind of a question is that? Deer in the headlights.

Why didn't it occur to me that the cos was PARANOID??!!??!!

I've taken tons of classes, seminars, trainings, etc. outside of scieno world and no one has asked anything remotely like that.

IMHO "PTS" was just another lame excuse that the tech doesn't work as advertised. LRH wrote his standard copious excuse lists (A to J, Type I, II and III, 10 Aug, etc.) with enough truth woven in to make it somehow real to the fully indoctrinated (and called it "tech"...LOL)

OT's and clears get sick and fail in life because they're just like everyone else. Blame it on PTS-ness if it works for you. It's all part of the "Scientology can handle everything," mentality. Or, blame it on an "unflat process" or "out-int" or "incorrect listing" or "past life" whatever.

The best solution is to get out of Dodge and stop pretending that LRH can make it all better.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Great post! Your wife is a real sharp cookie :) What she said makes absolute sense. You opened up a good discussion with this!!

By the way, Kima Douglas is a woman.
224304_1038648097839_284_n.jpg

Very beautiful and well loved by many.
http://www.facebook.com/kima.e.douglas

I don't see any 'wild' in her story. Looks like LRH was the PTS Type D, lol!!

Here is a bit more background on Kima, from Gerry Armstrong

Hallelujah, bye and bye, Michael Douglas
by Gerry Armstrong

michael-douglas2.jpg

From Gerry's fascinating story, here are some comments that explain a bit more about Kima Douglas and the SO life she lead, about the man she married and the pressures she as under dealing with LRH.

As is well known, the cult’s United Churches of Florida cover in Clearwater was blown in early 1976, and the media discovered Hubbard’s identity and his secret Dunedin location shortly thereafter. So he packed up his Cadillac and fled with Michael and Kima, who had recently married Michael, and who was then Hubbard’s Household Unit I/C. They drove north up the east coast, ending up in a brownstone in Washington, D.C. I remained in Dunedin as Michael’ s deputy and the relay terminal for all Hubbard’s dispatch and telex traffic to and from the Clearwater base and orgs around the world. Michael and I had, I recall, a pretty good time during this period, sending funny comms back and forth, maintaining the ruse that the old man was still in Dunedin, and keeping his lines running smoothly.

In early January 1980, as is well known, I petitioned Hubbard to assemble an archive of his personal documents and work on getting his biography written. Around the same date, Michael and Kima blew from X. Both of them subsequently said that the reason was just one too many meals that Hubbard in one too many rages flung across the room. In any event, their blowing was a huge threat to Hubbard, who already believed himself in peril from the criminal prosecution of the GO Eleven, the ongoing IRS case, and the several civil cases then being filed. So not long after the Douglases blew, Hubbard fled again, this time taking with him Pat and Annie Broeker.[..]

[..] During the years I was in litigation with Scientology, up until the December 1986 “settlement,” I saw Michael very rarely. We occasionally talked by phone, or I exchanged cards with Kima and him. Michael was on a spiritual journey during this period, tried for a ministership from Unity, and studied all kinds of mystical writings and disciplines. I worked in the law business and was immersed in the anti-Scientology litigation and the global effort against Hubbard and Scientology fraud and criminality. [..]

We saw each other in Los Angeles in December 1986 during the “global settlement” that Flynn had arranged with Scientology’s lawyers for himself and his “clients.” Michael, Kima and Nancy, who had no filed claims against the cult, were each given $7500 and signed “settlement agreements,” not quite as onerous as the one I was required to sign.[.]
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/legal/a1/flynn-clients-settlement- agreement.html
BTW, I really recommend reading this article in full.
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/writings/michael-douglas.html
 
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