Punishments, Too Gruesomes, Lowers You Went Through, etc. as Staff

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
Oh, I remember reading about the Inquisition - those folks found a way to smash their name into history.

May be the old boy thought 'leave no stone unturned' & all that?


Bless his heart !
 

SPsince83

Gold Meritorious Patron
It wasn't. Sugar is fairly distinctive and I was rolling around with my face literally inches above it. Plus the kitchen guys were pretty pissed off at us hosing down the place the second time as it was apparently quite expensive to have it put down. I guess it acted as a preventative as there were no bugs there at all, dead or alive.

I don't know how they got cleaned out. Tens of thousands of dead palmetto bugs would surely have clogged the drains.

Paul

Likely boric acid. It isn't exactly a poison. The bugs walk through it and when they clean it off with their mouths, it acts like ground glass and chews up the bug's soft tissue. The bugs don't avoid it because it doesn't give off the toxic indicators of poison and the survival rate is zero so there is no ability to evolve a resistant species. Very effective. But don't eat it.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes . . . the place has gone insane.

You relative newbies might not realize the sequence of HCO Pols that were issued on the "Ethics Conditions" bullshit that set up this criminal scenario.

Originally, we had the Operating Conditions . . . 1965: Power down to Non-Existence.

In 1967 the first of the "Ethics Conditions" pols was issued with the Liability Formula . . . and at the time, that was it! The lowest condition you could be assigned . . . and it was here that the notion of making the "penalties so horrible" etc., were introduced, and in writing in that HCO PL.

Later, then came even lower conditions (they got changed about and rejigged) as Hubbard dreamed up his shit . . . at one time Enemy and Treason were in different positions.

So, when one looks at the insanity of what Liability was touted as and the assigning of the condition was supposed to do; well, one can get a sense of how insane the system had to get to inflict even harsher conditions and punishment for lower than the original "worst of the worst."

Also insane is the fact of assigning the lowest conditions to people straight off . . . what ever happened to the idea of "lightest touch first!"????

I look at the history of this crazy organization and its shit and simply see that they are so insanely in FEAR of "badness" and "error" that all they can think to do is to attack and attempt to destroy . . . even if and when they do not understand WTF they are doing and why!

R

Right......there was something, an LRH PL, Base Order or SO Tape about using "Ethics Gradients" because Scientology ethics was soooo powerful - whole spiritual existence for eternity on the line, can overwhelm people instead of just handle the ethics matter, blah, blah.

So start out at just the right level and increase only as needed.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
In my time in the SO (1972-1996) I remember countless tasks having to be done with inadequate tools (the org couldn't afford proper ones), but not one of those involving deliberate tool withholding as punishment comes to mind. On a broader view one could consider the inadequate financing made worse by payments uplines punishment by Hubbard etc, but I was looking at it on a more personal level.

There was lots of punishment involving restriction of time to eat food, less/no sleep, less/no pay and more of course. But nothing too juicy comes to mind, though.

Paul

Late 70s - early 80s similar experience. Lack of tools, tools in disrepair, but no deliberate calculated use of inadequate or demeaning tools as punishment.

Same with sleep deprivation, multiple day shifts, poor food, no - little pay, etc. It was SOP - could be interpreted as punishment and degradation but I did not sense it was a deliberate punishment program.

RPF was another matter.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Under the kitchen at big blue is 4 foot high crawl space that allows access to all the drain pipes from the (approx) 1400 sq ft kitchen above. Back in the 80s when I was 15 and on the RPF, the RPFs RPFs job was to clean the crawl space. Most of the drains leaked because the estates staff refused to go down there, so the floor would be covered in 1/2 inch of fat, food and water from the steam kettles.


It was very hot and humid because most the cooking was done with the massive steam kettles, and it was very common to get burned on drain and steam pipes. This also made it a great home for the namesake (rats) and there far more numerous little friends, cockroaches. When we went in, the rats would leave, but the roaches would sit there, watching you. And not little roaches, these were 2-3 inch long palmetto bug monsters; millions of them covered the floor, walls and ceiling of the crawl space.


So we would go in there with nothing but a hose, brooms, rubber gloves and flat furniture dollies to roll around on. And we had to stay in uniform, so if you were unlucky enough to be doing this in the summer, you were in shorts and t-shirt.


I had to do rats alley clean up 3 times and after 30 years, I still shudder at the thought of it. :nervous:

There were grease trap on the grills and this is put into 50 gallon drums and picked up by the Grease Truck like regular restaurants but grease gets spilled and migrates everywhere so when they mop the place down it must go down the leaky drains and end up in the sub-floor, ick.

My personal theory is that the bulk cooking in those massive steel kettles over cooks everything and it becomes devoid of nutrition. Perhaps the combination of this institutional cooking and exposure to carcinogens on building construction (and smoking) is the reason I am seeing cancer as COD of so many long term SO members. Stress doesn't help.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yeah. I had to clean up Rats Alley twice while on the RPF's RPF in 1996. The first time there were no rats: I think they had been scared away by the palmetto bugs. I counted them, as in maybe 100 per square foot multiplied up by the square footage of the walls and ceilings they covered. I forget now, but literally tens of thousands of them quivering away. And they fly! Plus rolling around lying on those furniture dollies they're sometimes just a few inches above you.

When I first got in there it was hard to be with them, but I literally ran hellos and oks on them (Scn process) for five minutes until I could at least tolerate them enough to work down there.

The second time I went in there a couple of months later there was not a single palmetto bug (or rat) visible, but there was a white powder -- I assumed highly toxic -- all over the floor. It was nice not to have the critters in there but I didn't appreciate breathing that stuff.

Paul

Boric Acid. I think it kills the enzymes or bacteria in their digestive tract and they starve.
 
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Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
Regarding punishment in the COS

I found the signature bit on Liability a lot more difficult than the physical crap. Every Liability formula I did resulted in me feeling less powerful and less causative, yet somehow more of a bona fide group member. I actually enjoyed the physical stuff and the "effective blows" were somehow cleansing but the problem was that completing the formula enhanced the us/them mentality that the COS thrives on.

Doing the conditions was mind control abuse.
 

HappyGirl

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes...I was on the RPF. That is where most of that took place. Regular SO was just long hours, cleaning etc....the rice and beans was in the SO...our Org was flat broke lol....go figure. My life as a kid before the SO was mest work and lots of it. I had a very lonely childhood with lots of cleaning, OW write ups, and conditions.....I can't tell you how many times I did lowers at a 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 year old. I would be assigned lowers if I didnt clean the kitchen well, or if I stayed out late, or if I got a C in school for something. When I got C's in two classes I was assigned lowers, all of my clothes were taken away except one outfit (I was in 8th grade, very embarrassing), and no one was allowed to talk to me in the family. This went on for about 3 months.

BeenLiedTo
Jeez! I just want to go back in time and give you a :hug:.
 

Victoria

Patron Meritorious
There were grease trap on the grills and this is put into 50 gallon drums and picked up by the Grease Truck like regular restaurants but grease gets spilled and migrates everywhere so when they mop the place down it must go down the leaky drains and end up in the sub-floor, ick.

My personal theory is that the bulk cooking in those massive steel kettles over cooks everything and it becomes devoid of nutrition. Perhaps the combination of this institutional cooking and exposure to carcinogens on building construction (and smoking) is the reason I am seeing cancer as COD of so many long term SO members. Stress doesn't help.
I had a course supervisor Phil on ASHO FND. (don't remember his last name).
Anyway, he claimed he was making great money on the side selling grease to cosmetics factories, who used it in their face creams.
I wonder if that was true, or had he just been sent to rat alley one too many times?
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I had a course supervisor Phil on ASHO FND. (don't remember his last name).
Anyway, he claimed he was making great money on the side selling grease to cosmetics factories, who used it in their face creams.
I wonder if that was true, or had he just been sent to rat alley one too many times?

If the SO was enterprising they could save some money here . . . .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...ood-in-china-again-after-watching-this-video/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrv78nG9R04
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron

Recycled grease is used in animal feed and for bio-fuel.

This is where it is kept at Big Blue (just to the left of the Horseshoe Entrance):

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.096...4!1sLXly0lUgCvX58c3mxOubZA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The trash compactor is on the right. The entrance to the hall leading to the Galley/kitchen is just past the compactor. The flies migrate down the hall to the food prep area. The Galley is basically under siege by vermin - rats and cockroaches from below and flies to the right. If there aren't enough people posted to the Galley to keep it sanitary then it can get out of control quickly. The RPF were used to back fill Galley personnel. If an SO member doesn't make the grade they can expect to end up in the Galley at some point.

In the above image, to the left is the Boiler Room. Another favorite employee motivational program destination often mentioned in these threads.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
My personal theory is that the bulk cooking in those massive steel kettles over cooks everything and it becomes devoid of nutrition. Perhaps the combination of this institutional cooking and exposure to carcinogens on building construction (and smoking) is the reason I am seeing cancer as COD of so many long term SO members. Stress doesn't help.

Long term stress
Lack of sleep
Bad nutrition
Carcinogens

All can contribute to cancer.

Research Again Confirms Links Between Poor Sleep, Weight Gain, and Cancer

The Metabolic Consequences of Sleep Deprivation

More articles on sleep deprivation and cancer
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron

That's the one!

But we are learning how LRH exercised summary judgement quite often. He was infallible as "Source" and these gradient ethics measures did not apply to his jurisprudence. When he sentenced people to the chain locker or tossed them over board into oily bilge contaminated harbor water was there any Comm Ev or Hearing? DM has inherited this authority. It appears LRH favored DM to a great degree exactly because he emulated LRH's position on this as his Messenger On Duty and as CMO Action Chief or Programs Ops.

LRH may have been a totalitarian at heart but he also took extensive measures to preserve positive PR, or at least keep negative PR internal. Strip away the PR and all that remains is Totalitarianism.

The RPF was effectively the compartmentalized removal of the PR facade for internal purposes. To other staff it wasn't Totalitarianism because technically it was a "voluntary" program. But to anyone who was paying attention it was obvious that this was the camel's nose in the tent. It is where the organization was ultimately heading. How many of the people who have high levels of authority are RPF graduates and identify with DM's interpretation of "Ethics Gradient"?

In order to remain for a long time one either has to have a high tolerance for dispensing abuse or receiving it.

This thread is about excessive abuse like being ordered to clean toilets with a toothbrush. I wasn't being punished when we had "White Glove" inspections but often I had only a rag and my bare hands to clean those toilets. There just weren't any supplies. Its hard to make a distinction between punishment and the day to day conditions under those circumstances. And if the White Glove inspection didn't pass the whole crew had to stay late into the night until it did, many times, on top of regular duties.

Anyone inspecting a White Glove would have been someone who had to do a White Glove themselves. Just like a staff member signing off on another staff member's Liability Formula petition, we trade off being abused and holding court over each other. Often an area just could not be White Gloved - it needed renovation, so after 2-3 flunks and most of the night the inspector gives a pass because they know it is just tantamount to abusive control but they can't make it look too easy or they will get in trouble. Signing off on someone's Liability Petition means questioning them about what they did to make sure you have confidence that they really applied the formula before you sign - so again we are all trading places, today you are a prisoner in the gulag and tomorrow you are a guard.

"Too Gruesomes" were after my time but in a world where abuse and neglect are routine I guess they need to get creative to make an impact.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Recycled grease is used in animal feed and for bio-fuel.

This is where it is kept at Big Blue (just to the left of the Horseshoe Entrance):

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.096...4!1sLXly0lUgCvX58c3mxOubZA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The trash compactor is on the right. The entrance to the hall leading to the Galley/kitchen is just past the compactor. The flies migrate down the hall to the food prep area. The Galley is basically under siege by vermin - rats and cockroaches from below and flies to the right. If there aren't enough people posted to the Galley to keep it sanitary then it can get out of control quickly. The RPF were used to back fill Galley personnel. If an SO member doesn't make the grade they can expect to end up in the Galley at some point.

In the above image, to the left is the Boiler Room. Another favorite employee motivational program destination often mentioned in these threads.

I spent several hours inside that trash compactor once scrubbing the garbage off the walls. We were told the power was off. :). Vaguely unpleasant but not dangerous, and we had bigger brushes than toothbrushes.

Where was the grease kept?

Paul
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I spent several hours inside that trash compactor once scrubbing the garbage off the walls. We were told the power was off. :). Vaguely unpleasant but not dangerous, and we had bigger brushes than toothbrushes.

Where was the grease kept?

Paul

Funky! That was always the armpit of the place. It looks like they have tried to clean it up and the screened fence is a good idea. The one thing covered out of propriety instead of paranoia. I think the grease drum was just kept out by the loading dock or over against the Boiler Room by the stairs. In itself its no big deal - every large restaurant type facility has these. If they are not stored right and you get flies in it and they can migrate into the food prep area - thats another matter. Back in the day the doors between the compactor area and the kitchen were often broken or left open and it was pretty awful. They may have Religious tax exempt status but they still get inspected by the city health department so it might be tolerable by now. I don't know if those records are available to the public.
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
I was 17 years old, and they had me in the industrial shredder at PAC. It's located in the motor pool. This was when I was "on decks" routing out of the SO. I wasn't given any protective gear during the time I was shredding. It went on for 8+ hours. I have to say it was nice being isolated from everyone, but having to occasionally talk to the witch that ran estates at the time (in 2004) was unnerving.

Side note: She was actually very nice to me while I was on decks, but prior to that she had treated me like dogshit. I never understood why.

Anyway, for several weeks I would blow my nose and it would be all kinds of different colors because of the dust that got up in there. That's one of the ways I found out about all the sex and other stuff that was going on at PAC. I would occasionally stop and read some of the things I was shredding.
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
I was 17 years old, and they had me in the industrial shredder at PAC. It's located in the motor pool. This was when I was "on decks" routing out of the SO. I wasn't given any protective gear during the time I was shredding. It went on for 8+ hours. I have to say it was nice being isolated from everyone, but having to occasionally talk to the witch that ran estates at the time (in 2004) was unnerving.

Side note: She was actually very nice to me while I was on decks, but prior to that she had treated me like dogshit. I never understood why.

Anyway, for several weeks I would blow my nose and it would be all kinds of different colors because of the dust that got up in there. That's one of the ways I found out about all the sex and other stuff that was going on at PAC. I would occasionally stop and read some of the things I was shredding.

I forgot to add 8+ hours per day, for weeks.
 
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