Purpose of This Discussion Board ESMB

CornPie

Patron Meritorious
...Then they [scientologists] do the super deadly OTIII where the secrets that are behind the psyche enemies and why this is our only hope [per KSW], etc are revealed...

...So yes, without OTIII the impetus to comit crimes would exist to some extent. But it is OTIII that really justifies and solidifies them and re-defines the emphasis of dynamics...

...I think public ridicule and public outrage are probably equal in their effect on public perception...
1) I hear no objections, that the OT3 materials contain references to Aliens/Xenu/BTs (Body Thetans) -- many have heard hubbards voice discussing alien Xenu, in recordings on the Internet.

2) Many people agree that scientologists justify their crimes with KSW -- which is included in every course pack.

3) I hear no objections, that KSW (Keeping scientology Working) actually exists, here it is:
http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=168&Itemid=9

4) My attempt is to take it 1 step further -- proposing that (policy letter) KSW's justification depends on Alien/Xenu/BTs. Near the bottom of KSW (URL above), hubbard says, "...Remember, this is our first chance to do so in all the endless trillions of years of the past..."
 
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Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
So you're not old enough to have known the song, "Perfidia" - accusing his lady love of perfidy? Being perfidious.

Hmmm, interesting in light of this thread - apparently since you don't know the word, it doesn't exist -- for you or for anyone?

That makes a couple of you who haven't noticed that Roland's asking where "perfiDITY" comes from versus "perfiDY"
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
4) My attempt is to take it 1 level deeper -- proposing that KSW's justification depends on Xenu/BTs. Near the end of KSW (URL above), hubbard says, "...Remember, this is our first chance to do so in all the endless trillions of years of the past..."

Good luck with that. He brought KSW out in Feb 1965 and didn't start in on OT3 until 1967, as far as I know.

History of Man in 1952 talked about 60 trillion years of past track. Plus there's the silly "Individual Track Map" in the Tech Volumes from, what, 1952 too?

Paul
 

CornPie

Patron Meritorious
Good luck with that. He brought KSW out in Feb 1965 and didn't start in on OT3 until 1967, as far as I know.

History of Man in 1952 talked about 60 trillion years of past track. Plus there's the silly "Individual Track Map" in the Tech Volumes from, what, 1952 too? -- Paul
I'll rearrange your statements in date sequence:

1) In 1952, he supposedly 'knew' about the aliens of 60 trillion years ago.
2) In (copyrights 1965, 1970, 1973) he released KSW.
3) In 1967 he started work on OT3.

Does the fact that hubbard didn't mention Xenu/BTs in 1952 and 1965, mean that he didn't supposedly 'know' about them back then? Remember the OT3 'mystery sandwich' had to reveal 'priviliged' materials -- he said people could die from pnemonia if they heard about Xenu/BTs before they were 'ready'. (Good thing for them, he kept it under his hat. Huh?)

I will requote the following statement from my post #281:

4) My attempt is to take it 1 step further -- proposing that (policy letter) KSW's justification depends on Alien/Xenu/BTs. Near the bottom of KSW (URL above), hubbard says, "...Remember, this is our first chance to do so in all the endless trillions of years of the past..."

But this does bring up an interesting issue. Given that there's SO MUCH focus on the KSW policy letter, and that it is used by many to justify scientology crimes -- and it was re-released twice around the OT3/Alien/Xenu/BT time period -- how would one go about finding the differences between the 1965, 1970 and 1973 releases? Given that KSW was included in every course pack -- there must be lots of them laying around to compare.
 
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dontscamme

Patron Meritorious
Even though non-OT CoS members have only a vague notion of what the "Wall of Fire" is all about, they obviously know about The Bridge, and it seems to me that CornPie is right when he contends that KSW derives its power from The Bridge and its mysterious (until fully indoctrinated) Upper Levels.
 

bluewiggirl

Patron Meritorious
Even though non-OT CoS members have only a vague notion of what the "Wall of Fire" is all about, they obviously know about The Bridge, and it seems to me that CornPie is right when he contends that KSW derives its power from The Bridge and its mysterious (until fully indoctrinated) Upper Levels.

Okay, but here's the thing:

It doesn't matter what the mystery sammich is in this theory, only that there IS a mystery sammich. Exposing the mystery may cut down on public actually getting into Scientology, but it doesn't change a lot for people already in and I don't think *the contents of the mystery itself* contributes to abuse. it's just fucking funny. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but freedom of religion does not mean "freedom from other people laughing about your religion."
 

CornPie

Patron Meritorious
Even though non-OT CoS members have only a vague notion of what the "Wall of Fire" is all about, they obviously know about The Bridge, and it seems to me that CornPie is right when he contends that KSW derives its power from The Bridge and its mysterious (until fully indoctrinated) Upper Levels.
1) Per dontscamme and lionheart, "...KSW derives its power from The Bridge..."

2) And the bridge, beginning with OT3 thru OT7, derives its fear from Alien/Xenu, and the BTs -- that just won't go away.

3) Ergo, through interitance, KSW instills fear of Aliens/Xenu/BTs -- when it says, "...Remember, this is our first chance to do so in all the endless trillions of years of the past..." Although Aliens/Xenu/BTs are not spoken of in KSW, the fear of the unknown comes though loud and clear.

Question: And what 'mystery sanwich' do OT3s finally learn of, after wasting so much of their lives and money? Answer: F***ing Xenu, BTs, clusters, volcanoes, etc. But of course they can't talk about it. As W C Fields said, "Never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump."

And I'm just dying to see the differences between the 1965, 1970 and 1973 releases of KSW.
 
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CornPie

Patron Meritorious
...Exposing the mystery may cut down on public actually getting into Scientology, but it doesn't change a lot for people already in...
We agree that exposing Aliens/Xenu/BTs to public, may cut down on them actually gettiing into scientology.

However, I think exposing the OT3 mystery to existing scientologists 'would' reduce their desire to go up the bridge -- once they hear how off-the-wall it is. My understanding is that most scientology related forums censor any talk about 'upper level' materials -- now why do you suppose that is? ESMB is a rare scientology forum that values free speech.

Lots of people around ESMB, complain about protesters who expose 'upper level secrets' to scientologists. There are numerous reasons. Many of them are FreeZoners, some of whom want to propagate the myth of the bridge, outside of scientology. Some people say their concentration would be better spent on crimes. Others say they care so much for the few people who are in -- but it would result in keeping the many people who are out, ignorant of the facts.
 
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Carmel

Crusader
I'm not so sure exposing Aliens/Xenu/BTs to people who are in won't have an effect. <snip>
It's the very thing that makes those still "in" reject the critics - Either it's not real, or it's seen as an 'attack' on their beliefs. If ya wanna get someone to listen to ya, ya don't 'attack' their beliefs.

Lots of people around ESMB, complain about protesters who expose 'upper level secrets' to scientology staff. I'm not certain why that is, but I think many of them are FreeZoners, some of whom want to propagate the myth of the bridge, outside of scientology. Some people say the concentration should be on crimes. Others say they care so much for the few people who are in -- but it would result in keeping the many people who are out, ignorant of the facts.
Codswallop, but I think you know that. :whistling:
 
Communication is a process, as in the kind of process we talk about when we talk about auditing, or counseling outside of religion too.

When someone gets the opportunity to communicate, it lets them move off of stuck positions, mentally. It is beneficial to simply be there, available to listen, and let others talk. That is the essence of auditing, it is the essence of friendship.

It is what happens on this board.

I am definately going to needlepoint that on a pillow! Best words I have seen you write, Alex! :clap: Let's make t-shirts!
 

CornPie

Patron Meritorious
It's the very thing that makes those still "in" reject the critics - Either it's not real, or it's seen as an 'attack' on their beliefs. If ya wanna get someone to listen to ya, ya don't 'attack' their beliefs.

Codswallop, but I think you know that.
Some estimates are that 90% of scientologists never reach the OT levels. And since discussing their case is a not allowed -- those 90% of scientologists, when they hear Xenu/BTs 'entheta' -- would not have it as part of their 'beliefs' yet. They would just be hearing the far-fetched story that's in store for them. I think disclosing the Alien/Xenu/BT myth to this 90% would be doing them a HUGE favor. To get them asking themselves, "what in the h*** am I hanging around here for."

The other 10%, who are OTs -- sound like chiefs, not indians. They're more likely to be fanatical inflictors of hubbards crimes. They feel no 'sorrow' for the people they harm, I'd feel no sorrow (legally) dishing harm back to them.

I respect what y'all have done Down Under, and when you say, "Codswallop" I know you are sincere. But at the same time, I know there are a number of FreeZone shills who don't want Aliens/Xenu/BTs disclosed to their potential customer base -- because they want to keep people dumb, and propagate the hubbard myth.
 
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Björkist

Silver Meritorious Patron
Sorry I spoke. You should start a discussion with Anon Orange.

Paul

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alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
That makes a couple of you who haven't noticed that Roland's asking where "perfiDITY" comes from versus "perfiDY"

And compounding the confusion, Emma's new "you can edit forever" policy, allowed me to go to my original post and correct my spelling...

"Perfidity" comes form my sloppy use of my native language.

He was correct in his application of scientology qual technology, with his correction of my mistake. I wrote Perfidity, and meant perfidy.

:melodramatic:

(and people say I cant change...)
 
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FoTi

Crusader
I used to work in a store in Beverly Hills and men came into the store to buy supplies for needlepoint. I was told they did it to relax and ease stress.
 
I have heard estimates that 90% of scientologists never reach the OT levels. And since discussing tech is a not allowed -- the 90% of scientologists who hear the Xenu/BTs 'entheta' -- would not have it as part of their 'beliefs' yet. In this case I think disclosing the Alien/Xenu/BT myth would be doing them a HUGE favor. To get them asking themselves, "what in the h*** am I hanging around here for."

Or for an alternate view, ask yourself the question: what could possible keep them interested in scientology if not "xenu"? :)


The other 10%, who are OTs -- sound like chiefs, not indians. They're more likely to be fanatical inflictors of hubbards crimes. They feel no 'sorrow' for the people they harm, I'd feel no sorrow (legally) dishing harm back to them.

Great Justifier! Good Job! :thumbsup:

Of course it poses the question: what did YOU do while YOU were in? :whistling:


Mark A. Baker
 
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