Q: What Percentage of Your Income "Donated" To CO$ ?

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
I've spent the last week or so reading as many threads/posts as possible in an effort to understand the main issues (and the many, many off-shoots) as relate to CO$ past and present. I'll continue to read with sustained interest to gain additional knowledge from the shared wisdom of so many. Thank you, one and all, for every word and image I've seen thus far and, too, for all that's written in future. :thankyou:

Much is written, here and on other recommended sites, about the (often) enormous sums of money "donated" to CO$. What I've not been able to fully grasp is a better understanding of what financial impact such "donations" had on one's everyday life. If a married couple, for example, "donates" one million dollars from a yearly income of, say, five billion dollars, (and I *am* available for adoption should these folks be interested :biggrin:) the negative impact into their (very) charmed financial lives would appear negligible*. (*This doesn't mean their spiritual, emotional, intellectual lives couldn't be 'wrecked'.)

It's impolite to ask a question without first answering it and I'm happy to, but for one problem: I don't support, financially or otherwise, any spiritual/religious group. Still, I do spend money on books, which might be a stretch, but it's the only area that I see which has a valid correlation.

So.

A review of my financial budget with trusty calculator in hand, expenditures for books stand at 18% of discretionary income. Last year's percentage was 19%. (Higher than I'd assumed, and, shouldn't I be smarter already from all this reading?:duh:)

What percentage of your discretionary income (after rent/mortgage, food, utilities, transportation, clothing, insurance, education, savings, etc.) was "donated" to CO$? Bonus question: If involved for more than 1 year, did the percentage increase/decrease?

Thanks for reading,

JB.
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
Historically, proper religions (not the Scientology space alien cult business) typically invited parishioners to tithe their income: literally to set aside 10% for the support of the priesthood, the religious structure, and the works it does in the community.

Scientology makes a mockery of that, of course. Not least because the cult expects you to reach beyond your income, to seize as much as you can possibly borrow. Even thieving can make a person 'upstat' in the eyes of the Scientology pseudoreligion, as long as the proceeds are 'donated'.

How much of your discretionary income does Scientllogy expect? Simple: all of it - and then some more. And you should join staff, too...

Parasites.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
As Freeminds noted, the amount expected was "whatever the reg can talk the sucker into", and would vary wildly depending on how easily intimidated the person was.

People would be talked into borrowing more than their annual income to buy services or donate to the IAS.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Historically, proper religions (not the Scientology space alien cult business) typically invited parishioners to tithe their income: literally to set aside 10% for the support of the priesthood, the religious structure, and the works it does in the community.

Scientology makes a mockery of that, of course. Not least because the cult expects you to reach beyond your income, to seize as much as you can possibly borrow. Even thieving can make a person 'upstat' in the eyes of the Scientology pseudoreligion, as long as the proceeds are 'donated'.

How much of your discretionary income does Scientllogy expect? Simple: all of it - and then some more. And you should join staff, too...

Parasites.

Yep, I understand most religious groups' expectations of 10% or so. :yes:
Yep, I understand CO$'s expectations of 100% or more.:yes:

And I greatly appreciate your wisdom (your posts are among my very faves :clap::hattip::bowdown:) but I'm honestly looking for anecdotal data to better understand what daily conditions existed in the life of someone involved in CO$. No one needs to pull out their own calculator on my behalf - a ballpark figure is appreciated, too.

Another way: People say it's very, very hot in Arizona; that's informative. When 10 people tell me they're forced to spend $1000. each month on their electric bill to keep their a/c running 24/7, I'm then able to understand why, for example, all 10 individuals support a mandatory 50% reduction in all utility bills for areas in the US with temps over 70 degrees. Or why 8 of 10 may stridently proclaim that "ceiling fans are worthless".

I've not been involved with CO$ aside from ESMB and, more recently, researching the available data on the internet & reading books, and have a decent store of knowledge about the more egregious (okay, heinous) acts of deliberate harm committed against members/former members/critics, etc. but I lack an appreciable amount of knowledge about the everyday/ordinary members' lives and how CO$ impacted financially. {<-----erm, run-on sentence, much?}

Thanks,

JB.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
As Freeminds noted, the amount expected was "whatever the reg can talk the sucker into", and would vary wildly depending on how easily intimidated the person was.

People would be talked into borrowing more than their annual income to buy services or donate to the IAS.

^^^^My bold above.

Thanks for your response, Enthetan. :biggrin:

I understand the concept of 'regging' within CO$, but am looking to learn the percentage of discretionary income "donated" to CO$ by those involved with CO$. While I have read much to support the practice(s) you've kindly cited above, and I believe the practice of 'regging' to be as abhorrent as it is, sadly, true, I haven't read an account (yet) where an individual loses everything (financially speaking*) all at once. (*NOT counting SO members.)

It seems more common that after an initial outlay of an 'affordable' amount, 'regging' for expensive 'services' occurs - which commonly involves credit card expenditures WELL beyond the individual's prior purchasing made via credit - and then, the negative financial impact REALLY jumps into high gear with exorbitant 'donations' made for all manner of 'necessary' (per CO$) materials/programs/initiatives/services/etc. But without a bit more information about the percentages, I'm left to wonder if my guess is accurate.

Thanks for reading, hope I was clearer here,

JB.
 

Orglodyte

Patron with Honors
All right JB, I'll provide a data point. I was public only, resisted IAS (only bought annual memberships, under protest, hated the nullification of my lifetime HASI membership), out before Ideal orgs, so I only bought services -- lower bridge training, books, meters. I missed out on all the new and improved routes to total bankruptcy. Regular public working stiff who never made it very far.

Even with all this, I would say that well over 100% of my disposable income went to Scientology. I earned about 200K total during the 80's and spent about $60K on Scn, usually in the form of big spasmodic packages. That's nothing compared to many, but I was always flat broke and beyond. When I left I had 30K in debt. I'll never forget the day I made the last payment.

So for me, 30% of my gross income for a decade.

The effect this had on my life was profound. I felt guilty about spending either money or time on anything but Scn. Always in debt, living on coffee, going even broker with faintly unsavory get-rich schemes. Life as a Scientologist sucks, JB. And I got off easy.

And don't forget the time investment. Scientology took up all of my discretionary time, as well. It is a black hole.

One of my major tipping points was following an ancient car down an LA freeway, a battered little import with rattling fenders and trailing blue smoke, and seeing, as I passed, that the license plate read "OTVIII."
 

Good twin

Floater
I didn't do it every year of my thirty years in, but a majority of years I spent almost equal to my income and some years I spent way more than my income. At one point I was about 50k in debt and making less that 20k per year.

I think I paid at least 10K per year for the last ten years I was in.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
All right JB, I'll provide a data point. I was public only, resisted IAS (only bought annual memberships, under protest, hated the nullification of my lifetime HASI membership), out before Ideal orgs, so I only bought services -- lower bridge training, books, meters. I missed out on all the new and improved routes to total bankruptcy. Regular public working stiff who never made it very far.

Even with all this, I would say that well over 100% of my disposable income went to Scientology. I earned about 200K total during the 80's and spent about $60K on Scn, usually in the form of big spasmodic packages. That's nothing compared to many, but I was always flat broke and beyond. When I left I had 30K in debt. I'll never forget the day I made the last payment.

So for me, 30% of my gross income for a decade.

The effect this had on my life was profound. I felt guilty about spending either money or time on anything but Scn. Always in debt, living on coffee, going even broker with faintly unsavory get-rich schemes. Life as a Scientologist sucks, JB. And I got off easy.

And don't forget the time investment. Scientology took up all of my discretionary time, as well. It is a black hole.

One of my major tipping points was following an ancient car down an LA freeway, a battered little import with rattling fenders and trailing blue smoke, and seeing, as I passed, that the license plate read "OTVIII."

Thank you, Orglodyte, for providing such a complete answer. Whatever joy I'm apt to feel at the demise of CO$ & their despicably harmful methods/policies/actions will rightly pale in comparison to your own at that time and I earnestly hope that occurs soon.

The major tipping point which you mention prompted an unanticipated thought in my head - "hmmm, why not buy a beater car w/a vanity plate that says 'OT8' and a bumper sticker that says, 'My Other Car is a DC-8' and drive it around Clearwater or Los Angeles..." -- and I offer it here to bring you a small smile. If I really do buy the beater, though, I'll be sure to have another bumper sticker that reads: "Orglodyte's Idea".

JB.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Well, it really varies. CofS members are constantly exhorted to buy more course, more auditing, etc. And if they aren't ready to take the next service or they don't have the money, they are encourage to advance pay for it.

There are also IAS membership drives on top of one's regular IAS dues.

Church members can end up shelling out a lot but it is not based on percentages and it varies. For instance, staff aren't likely to be donating as much, particularly Sea Org staff, but then again, they are giving virtually ALL their time, their youth, their energy, even their families.

The people who really shell out the huge bux are the ones who are IAS patrons and Patrons Meritorius and who donate to the Super Power Building, the Ideal Org drives on top of doing OT levels. The upper OT levels are ruinously expensive.

Feral, for instance, I believe, has said he spent about 750,000.00 approx on cult stuff when he was in. There are families that have spent half to that much to about the same, maybe even more.

The cult does try to get as much money as they can out of members.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
I didn't do it every year of my thirty years in, but a majority of years I spent almost equal to my income and some years I spent way more than my income. At one point I was about 50k in debt and making less that 20k per year.

I think I paid at least 10K per year for the last ten years I was in.

Thanks, Good Twin, for your candid response.

So is it fair to say that for more than 15 years, 100% of your total income (not just discretionary income) was "donated" to CO$, and the $100k "donation" which spanned the final 10 years represented less than 100% of your total income?

JB.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Scientology is a communist organization except they give nothing back in return. The Organization itself sells propaganda - and does nothing. The staff work for free - the public pay for everything.

This is not a typical Church! It is NOT a CHURCH! It is a cult and Scientology has completely bankrupted it's members and now it is going for the staff!

If someone is in Scientology and still active - 99.9% of those people are completely broke! It could be 100% by now. If you researched the statistics of bankrupted members - it is staggering! They are destroying everyone in their path in the best interest of David Miscavige keeping his dictator position because he could do nothing else if he lost his job! Wal-Mart won't hire criminals! He could not even get a job as a greeter. Imagine if he actually had to produce something of value? What would he say in an interview...I was the dictator of a cult and have blood on my hands. I can turn your company around and make slaves out of them...I am well trained in mind control techniques and I made billions!!

The only one that benefits from the billions of dollars they are sitting on is David Miscavige. Miscavige gets to spend all of the money however he wants and it is not for anything good for humanity - he has the finest tailored Italian suits and shoes, nice expensive cars, personal chef, gym, fancy clothes and big law firms to protect his "interest".

Scientology will fleece everyone dry...that is almost completed now and no newbies coming in to fleece - so they are going after the staff anc asking the staff to get in debt to save mankind's salvation - the Cult of Scientology.

I am watching staff members "pledge" money - lots of money - no way they could ever pay that pledge - so what happens to them when they can't? Stay tuned...I am sure some of them may be popping up here in the next year!
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
All right JB, I'll provide a data point. I was public only, resisted IAS (only bought annual memberships, under protest, hated the nullification of my lifetime HASI membership), out before Ideal orgs, so I only bought services -- lower bridge training, books, meters. I missed out on all the new and improved routes to total bankruptcy. Regular public working stiff who never made it very far.

Even with all this, I would say that well over 100% of my disposable income went to Scientology. I earned about 200K total during the 80's and spent about $60K on Scn, usually in the form of big spasmodic packages. That's nothing compared to many, but I was always flat broke and beyond. When I left I had 30K in debt. I'll never forget the day I made the last payment.

So for me, 30% of my gross income for a decade.

The effect this had on my life was profound. I felt guilty about spending either money or time on anything but Scn. Always in debt, living on coffee, going even broker with faintly unsavory get-rich schemes. Life as a Scientologist sucks, JB. And I got off easy.

And don't forget the time investment. Scientology took up all of my discretionary time, as well. It is a black hole.

One of my major tipping points was following an ancient car down an LA freeway, a battered little import with rattling fenders and trailing blue smoke, and seeing, as I passed, that the license plate read "OTVIII."

I saw the same thing ... piece of crap car in the Morgue parking lot with OT ATE on the license plate....they gal was completely broke...then died of cancer a year later!!
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Well, it really varies. CofS members are constantly exhorted to buy more course, more auditing, etc. And if they aren't ready to take the next service or they don't have the money, they are encourage to advance pay for it.

There are also IAS membership drives on top of one's regular IAS dues.

Church members can end up shelling out a lot but it is not based on percentages and it varies. For instance, staff aren't likely to be donating as much, particularly Sea Org staff, but then again, they are giving virtually ALL their time, their youth, their energy, even their families.

The people who really shell out the huge bux are the ones who are IAS patrons and Patrons Meritorius and who donate to the Super Power Building, the Ideal Org drives on top of doing OT levels. The upper OT levels are ruinously expensive.

Feral, for instance, I believe, has said he spent about 750,000.00 approx on cult stuff when he was in. There are families that have spent half to that much to about the same, maybe even more.

The cult does try to get as much money as they can out of members.

^^^My bold and underlined/bold above.

Thanks for your response, Claire. :)

I believe we're in agreement as regards the large majority of what you write above. Much is stolen from those who don't deserve such treatment.

However, I've bolded and underlined/bolded one line to focus attention on a key difference. I understand CO$ does not require "donations" of a specific percentage rate and that's not the false premise upon which I based my question. Rather, I believe we can agree, under ordinary circumstances, that a person who "donates" to CO$ does so from a personal/household budget. I've asked those who've "donated" to provide the percentage of that personal/household budget which was allotted for such "donations"...and, if that percentage decreased/increased during their time involved with CO$.

If monthly income for a person who just purchased the first book is, say, $40k per year, with $12k of that as discretionary income, the initial percentage of that person's "donation" would be less than 1%, yes?

If, in the second year, with the same earned income of $40k/discretionary income of $12k, that person "donates" $6k, the "donation" will have jumped up to 50% of his/her discretionary income, yes?

If, in the third year, with $40k/$12k, that person "donates" $12k, it's become 100% of his/her discretionary income, yes?

The "donated" dollar amounts add very little knowledge to anyone seeking to fully understand/measure exactly how insidious this cult's practices truly are -- aside from thinking, "Wow, that couple donated 3 million dollars and they both look smarter than that," or other such superficial observance.

JB.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
I saw the same thing ... piece of crap car in the Morgue parking lot with OT ATE on the license plate....they gal was completely broke...then died of cancer a year later!!

Dear IdleMorgue,

I said I'd consider buying a beater car, but I'm less sure about the going broke part, and really resistant to the dying 'thang'. :nervous: (jk :ohmy:)
 

Operating DB

Truman Show Dropout
Here's my scio financial story for what it's worth.

I was in the cult from October 9th, 1975 to January 1, 1985. Great way to start off the new year!

First off, I had my own iron clad rule to never spend (waste) money on scn as long as I paid the rent, groceries, utilities bills and any other general expenses first. My second iron clad rule was to always pay my bills on time and I never paid them late, ever! My third rule was if I did get a loan my priority was to pay it off as soon as possible. This meant paying the loan off first before spending (wasting) further money in the cult. I recall a time when I did try to get a bank loan for around $1000.00 for some scio services. In those days it was hard to get a loan and I had no credit history or credit card. Praise the Baby Lord Jesus that the bank didn't approve the loan. I ended up borrowing money from my mother and paid her off within a few months interest free. That was my one and only scio loan.

I would say I spent as much as I could afford of my discretionary income on scn crap. Mostly in the middle years. I was gung ho about going up the Bridge to Total Stupidity.

I always had some kind of wog job during my whole scio career except during full time training on the Academy Levels and Die-or-Ethics internship. Even when I was on full time staff for a stint of 2.5 years, I worked weekend nights to make money to pay my bills and rent. And I don't know how I got away with this one but when I was on the SHSBC at ASHO I was on course M-F full time and had weekends off to work to make money so I could afford to pay rent and eat. Peanut butter or baloney sandwiches were a typical diet. Tight budget! I was pretty adamant about not going into debt or becoming a beggar on the street.

I kept every receipt for every service, book, etc I bought over the 9 year+ stint in the cult and my total wasted money came to a round figure of $29,000 in 1975-1985 dollars. (I did get a good amount of "free" auditing and training during my sentence as a staff member.) In the beginning I started out buying (not donating, in my view) the customary cheap services and books. Books weren't too horribly expensive in 1975-6. As time went on I then bought more expensive services, mostly auditing and training packages. Around March 1982 I started feeling disaffected as the hoped for miracles weren't transpiring and feared they never would. I didn't want to waste more money on services I didn't really want so my plan was to hopefully drift away from scn and they'd forget about me. That plan was short lived. This was in the days when Miscavige started wielding his power and I was forced back into the Org and the reg pressured me into buying more. Things eventually came to a head on January 1, 1985 when it was insisted I buy an IAS membership. (In a recent thread I think I read that the IAS con started up in October 1984.) I protested as I already had the previous, but supposedly now defunct, lifetime membership. My protest led to a really long talk with the "Ethics" officer that led to nowhere. I was sticking to my guns. Since I didn't want to buy into the IAS it meant I had false purposes and that I should to do False Purpose Rundown (that was the new panacea for all ills). I refused as it didn't indicate and didn't want to waste more money. I instinctively knew that the FPRD would result in no results.

Guess what? That was my last night at the Org. I was never to be heard from again and would never ever waste another G.D. penny on useless crap offered by the cult.

:cheers:
 

Anonycat

Crusader
I've spent the last week or so reading as many threads/posts as possible in an effort to understand the main issues (and the many, many off-shoots) as relate to CO$ past and present. I'll continue to read with sustained interest to gain additional knowledge from the shared wisdom of so many. Thank you, one and all, for every word and image I've seen thus far and, too, for all that's written in future. :thankyou:

Much is written, here and on other recommended sites, about the (often) enormous sums of money "donated" to CO$. What I've not been able to fully grasp is a better understanding of what financial impact such "donations" had on one's everyday life. If a married couple, for example, "donates" one million dollars from a yearly income of, say, five billion dollars, (and I *am* available for adoption should these folks be interested :biggrin:) the negative impact into their (very) charmed financial lives would appear negligible*. (*This doesn't mean their spiritual, emotional, intellectual lives couldn't be 'wrecked'.)

It's impolite to ask a question without first answering it and I'm happy to, but for one problem: I don't support, financially or otherwise, any spiritual/religious group. Still, I do spend money on books, which might be a stretch, but it's the only area that I see which has a valid correlation.

So.

A review of my financial budget with trusty calculator in hand, expenditures for books stand at 18% of discretionary income. Last year's percentage was 19%. (Higher than I'd assumed, and, shouldn't I be smarter already from all this reading?:duh:)

What percentage of your discretionary income (after rent/mortgage, food, utilities, transportation, clothing, insurance, education, savings, etc.) was "donated" to CO$? Bonus question: If involved for more than 1 year, did the percentage increase/decrease?

Thanks for reading,

JB.


As you've seen already, budget doesn't apply with the cult. I took a class as a teenager, and they hit me up for $1,200 as I recall, to pre-pay for the next class. I didn't find the first (introductory) course interesting, and in fact had been creeped out thoroughly enough that there was no chance I'd want to try the next course, even if someone paid for it - as was the case in my taking the first class.

So, when I was being asked for the pre-payment for the next class, I said I was a kid in school, and didn't have $1,200. He asked if I could borrow it from a relative, and inquired about the willingness of parents, grandparents, "maybe an uncle or aunt?" I said no, I'm not going to borrow $1,200 as, ahem, I am a teenager in school, and am not even old enough to work. To that, he asked if any of those relatives does not support my being in scientology. I had heard of disconnection, and didn't like where this was going. That was the extent of my taking scientology classes. I very much realized that in this cult, they want you to join them. In fact, they don't even ask; the pitch is always: you want to go up the bridge, right? Let's make it happen!

They also wanted me to ask my parents if I could be shipped off to another state to live at the Delphi Academy, the cult school. They gave me a brochure to show my parents, and of course I wasn't even interested in that plan. The cult is eager to take over your life, your child's life, anything they can get.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Here's my scio financial story for what it's worth.

I was in the cult from October 9th, 1975 to January 1, 1985. Great way to start off the new year!

First off, I had my own iron clad rule to never spend (waste) money on scn as long as I paid the rent, groceries, utilities bills and any other general expenses first. My second iron clad rule was to always pay my bills on time and I never paid them late, ever! My third rule was if I did get a loan my priority was to pay it off as soon as possible. This meant paying the loan off first before spending (wasting) further money in the cult. I recall a time when I did try to get a bank loan for around $1000.00 for some scio services. In those days it was hard to get a loan and I had no credit history or credit card. Praise the Baby Lord Jesus that the bank didn't approve the loan. I ended up borrowing money from my mother and paid her off within a few months interest free. That was my one and only scio loan.

I would say I spent as much as I could afford of my discretionary income on scn crap. Mostly in the middle years. I was gung ho about going up the Bridge to Total Stupidity.

I always had some kind of wog job during my whole scio career except during full time training on the Academy Levels and Die-or-Ethics internship. Even when I was on full time staff for a stint of 2.5 years, I worked weekend nights to make money to pay my bills and rent. And I don't know how I got away with this one but when I was on the SHSBC at ASHO I was on course M-F full time and had weekends off to work to make money so I could afford to pay rent and eat. Peanut butter or baloney sandwiches were a typical diet. Tight budget! I was pretty adamant about not going into debt or becoming a beggar on the street.

I kept every receipt for every service, book, etc I bought over the 9 year+ stint in the cult and my total wasted money came to a round figure of $29,000 in 1975-1985 dollars. (I did get a good amount of "free" auditing and training during my sentence as a staff member.) In the beginning I started out buying (not donating, in my view) the customary cheap services and books. Books weren't too horribly expensive in 1975-6. As time went on I then bought more expensive services, mostly auditing and training packages. Around March 1982 I started feeling disaffected as the hoped for miracles weren't transpiring and feared they never would. I didn't want to waste more money on services I didn't really want so my plan was to hopefully drift away from scn and they'd forget about me. That plan was short lived. This was in the days when Miscavige started wielding his power and I was forced back into the Org and the reg pressured me into buying more. Things eventually came to a head on January 1, 1985 when it was insisted I buy an IAS membership. (In a recent thread I think I read that the IAS con started up in October 1984.) I protested as I already had the previous, but supposedly now defunct, lifetime membership. My protest led to a really long talk with the "Ethics" officer that led to nowhere. I was sticking to my guns. Since I didn't want to buy into the IAS it meant I had false purposes and that I should to do False Purpose Rundown (that was the new panacea for all ills). I refused as it didn't indicate and didn't want to waste more money. I instinctively knew that the FPRD would result in no results.

Guess what? That was my last night at the Org. I was never to be heard from again and would never ever waste another G.D. penny on useless crap offered by the cult.

:cheers:

Dear OperatingDB,

First, thank you so very much for providing such a detailed response. Your financial discipline, by any measure, is laudable; within the CO$ (or within a 100 mile radius of a mission/org) it is truly amazing!

From what you've described, I think I can figure out the percentages and will do so shortly.

Please note, I've intentionally used quotes around the word donation whenever it pertains to CO$, because I do not believe the "donated" funds were/are freely given to CO$; that is, when such funds weren't/aren't essentially stolen from individuals by CO$ via despicable 'regging' policies and the like.

Thanks again,

JB.
 
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