Question about LRH

[Gadfly]

i don't know as "covert" would be an appropriate adjective

I was just being funny . . . . using a loaded Scientology term . . . . that also might be true from a certain perspective . . . .

 

[Commander Birdsong]

oops...

gee, it seems i forgot to send boston to the reg after the session...

 

[Idle Morgue]

From what I understand Ron voluntarily dropped his body to go to another place (target two) to continue his research. Once his research is complete he will pick up a new body here on earth and resume his quest to clear this sector. This is why he has an office at all the orgs.....So question 1) Is this an accurate (if somewhat basic) understanding of what Scientologists believe about LRH? Question 2) What are the guidelines for recognizing him when he returns?

Marvel - you will never get the same answer from a scientologist. They gloss over him coming back in Cult Present Time - they are all very focused on getting money so Scientology can save the world! There is NO ONE HOME in the mind of a present day scientologist~!

Now staff are telling the public (due to Idle Morgues) that El Con's office is in "memory and respect" for that ole turd.

If Ron came back - You will smell him - and you won't even need your Super Power rundown to hone your perception of "smell"...ole Ronnie was a stink pot! Rotten teeth - fat and gross.

Scientology will sell its OT Levels and then someday announce another epic "break through" - HOT OFF THE PRESS....

Some old writings of El Con were found underneath a grave of a known SP - That SP stole them and took them to his grave. After exhuming the body and finding the notes, COB will announce that El Con discovered after OT 48 - that we don't come back - we have no past lives BUT El con has broken throught he barriers that have killed anyone else who tried to figure out why we thought we lived before...has to do with Xenu's rival - so get your checkbooks out...

They will be selling lots of repairs to the mind fuck!

 

[Commander Birdsong]

I was just being funny . . . . using a loaded Scientology term . . . . that also might be true from a certain perspective . . . .

ahhh...

so much of humor is carried in the inflection of the voice

and so much of all forms of meaning. there are very great advantages to communicating in writing but something is also lost

 

[hpm1999]

Anonycat...Thank you for this info it helps me to clarify my question. Lets assume (for the sake of argument) that since he "dropped his body" rather than "died" he is still in some form "alive" and therefore not a total charlatan. So 20 years to his supposed rebirth from the time he "dropped his body"......Is it established somewhere that he would return under the same timeframe as the SO? Assuming that the 20 year timeframe is true for him then he would have been reborn sometime 2006 which leads me to ask....By what criteria is he supposed to be recognized? If possible I would love the particular lecture, PAB or whatever for both questions.

So...should'nt DM & the SO have been on a massive baby hunt in 2006 like the Tibetians when they are hunting the "new" Dalai Lama; looking for cherubs with red hair... audit each and everyone of them - and see who recalls Saint Hill etc etc...

 

[hpm1999]

blankby mistake

 

[hpm1999]

Semantics . . . . .

Okay, how about this; Hubbard was a manipulative, deceitful and extremely dishonest storyteller.

Better?

Sort of like the old charlatan quote "I alway lie and I am lying now "

 

[La La Lou Lou]

So...should'nt DM & the SO have been on a massive baby hunt in 2006 like the Tibetians when they are hunting the "new" Dalai Lama; looking for cherubs with red hair... audit each and everyone of them - and see who recalls Saint Hill etc etc...

Basically, if not, why not?

Perhaps the answer is too obvious, no one believed it in the first place.

 

[Gib]

auditing "model session" the last time was 1985

i live and breathe the spirit of the auditor's code and this alone will serve to disenturbulate the people around me. i often in conversation smoothly shift gears into auditor mode and when i get GI's i do some sort of havingness; "have a chicken sandwich" or "look at that gorgeous chick" but it's casual, my "pc's" don't even know anything other conversation is occurring

and...

when the bombs went off at the marathon, i flew to boston and hopped in my taxi to run a group dianetic assist asking my passengers "where were you when the bombs went off" and doing a 2WC

the group havingness process was "look at that hockey game" starting with game seven against toronto and EP'd with game three against pittsburgh

then back to SF and some fukkin' pot f'crissakes...

tell the E/O i'll be in later...

much later

good to know.

the good shepard

coffee shop auditing

 

[lotus]

From what I understand Ron voluntarily dropped his body to go to another place (target two) to continue his research. Once his research is complete he will pick up a new body here on earth and resume his quest to clear this sector. This is why he has an office at all the orgs.....
So question 1) Is this an accurate (if somewhat basic) understanding of what Scientologists believe about LRH?

Right

Question 2) What are the guidelines for recognizing him when he returns?

only one guideline

Bring a dentist and psych close to him
wait and see

If the Psych goes evil - it's HIM
If he destroys the dentist - it's HIM

:confused2:

 

[hpm1999]

Basically, if not, why not?

Perhaps the answer is too obvious, no one believed it in the first place.

Newby Naive Question requiring conjecture: How much of the tech and policies do Miscavage and SO execs actually believe? Do they just do it for $ and power? Or are they TRUE believers ala Bin Laden? Or do they really BELIEVE and feel entitled to $ and power?

Or all of the above all at once (I heard a on a podcast or video with Mark Bunker and some other guy where the said "can't it be both - a religion of true believers and a scam/charade all at the same time?"). BTW I think I am becoming a Bunkerite! Marks' tone really connects with me...

 

[Kookaburra]

""

Geeeeze . . . don't youse know nuffin!! L Ron Hubbard will return to earth in a UFO, the landing zone has already been prepared . . .

Yep, he's coming back for his Kools. That's the logo off a pack of Kool cigarettes.

Like I said, he borrowed stuff from all over the place.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Lets say that LRH went off, did his research into OT97 and decided to come back and assume his old job. Firstly he'd choose a good on purpose mum and dad. He'd make them make love and get pregnant (blanketting). She'd be forced to have an abortion and he'd keep trying. There is a slight possibility that the abortion rule was made to stop him from coming back and pushing Dave off his gravy train.

Let's then say he managed to get his parents pregnant and produced a good enough body, does any one think DM would let him through the door? Of course if he was really Hubbard and now OT97 he could melt DMs body to candle fat at 100 meters. So why doesn't he? Here the most popular idea is that Hubbard was just another human being, just a slob like the rest of us.

But why would he have to raise a baby? If the symbols in the desert are a secret symbol visible from space, that would indicate he's flying in on the target II to Teegeac express, or on a galactic exploration ship or something he bought used, much like the Apollo (nee RSM) Another point to consider is this: in the mission earth books, the aliens were very much human, though living 200 years/life. Maybe he'll show up in a space tug?

Mimsey

That was my point exactly - DM thinks he is going to fly down out of the sky with as much fan fare as possible, and fill up all of the ideal orgs - with crowds of new and true believers. They will be BFF's forever, until DM figures out how to stab him in the back again. "Ron 2.0 left me this neat spaceship, and, furthermore (insert Sherman speak) He's gone to Target 3!!!" A true bromance.

Or

like a scene out of Road Warrior, in some distant future, some nut in an autogyro will be flying across the desert, see the "Kool alien crop circles", much like the ones in Peru, and fly down to see what it's all about, and reopen the Pandora's box once again.

Mimsey

 

[Kookaburra]

Here's the reference you asked about.

L.Ron Hubbard in Clearing Procedure, 1957: “I'll not always be here on guard. The stars twinkle in the Milky Way and the wind sighs for songs across the empty fields of a planet a Galaxy away. You won't always be here. But before you go, whisper this to your sons and their sons – ‘The work was free. Keep it so.’”

I also remember it from somewhere else. A very long policy letter, but I have not yet dredged up the name of it from my now failing memory.

nah...no difference between return and enter...its a weird problem.........cursory reading of the captain bill stuff syncs up with what I've gathered from the fishman collection as I call it....I think I read a KR on this guy at one point but have never read his stuff...will work on it presently. would captain bill's stuff be considered dogma by the community at large? I Know he was declared at some point but that doesn't necessarily make his interpretation of the tech illegitimate especially since it seems to sync up so nicely with the Fishman stuff......He seems like one we could throw on the pile with Young and Mayo (influential but later fell out of grace). what do we say? captain bill has a valid interpretation or no?

Young and Mayo were highly respected Scientologists and later highly respected critics and whistle blowers.

Captain Bill was a highly respected Scientologist at one point, but went off the deep end. He's a complete nut job IMO. He did take a bunch of people with him and led the European freezone until his death. He developed many more OT levels. He was never a critic or whistleblower.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

That was my point exactly - DM thinks he is going to fly down out of the sky with as much fan fare as possible, and fill up all of the ideal orgs - with crowds of new and true believers. They will be BFF's forever, until DM figures out how to stab him in the back again. "Ron 2.0 left me this neat spaceship, and, furthermore (insert Sherman speak) He's gone to Target 3!!!" A true bromance.

Miscavige is just the dealer, he isn't stupid enough to actual sample the product. He knows Scientology has nothing to offer him or anyone else worth wasting any time on. He just puts on a show for the ones who haven't figured it out yet and is more than happy to take their money

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Here's the reference you asked about.



I also remember it from somewhere else. A very long policy letter, but I have not yet dredged up the name of it from my now failing memory.



Young and Mayo were highly respected Scientologists and later highly respected critics.

Captain Bill was a highly respected Scientologist at one point, but went off the deep end. He's a complete nut job IMO. He did take a bunch of people with him and led the European freezone until his death.

Captain Bill like L. Ron Hubbard before him went fully OT and "dropped his sanity".

His sanity was impeding his progress of developing Ron's Bridge To Total Freedom, just as Ron's sanity was impeding him

 

[Queenmab321]

It seems to me the stage is set for someone, presumably someone born after 1986, to come along claiming to be Hubbard and looking for or demanding acknowledgement as the reincarnated founder. How wonderfully entertaining would that be?!

 

[uniquemand]

It seems to me the stage is set for someone, presumably someone born after 1986, to come along claiming to be Hubbard and looking for or demanding acknowledgement as the reincarnated founder. How wonderfully entertaining would that be?!

I hope this happens. I would hope it was my own child, but I don't really want the life of a cult leader for them. Zeb could pull it off.

 

[Queenmab321]

And there shall come the time when even thou,
Forced by the soothsayer's terror-tales, shalt seek
To break from us. Ah, many a dream even now
Can they concoct to rout thy plans of life,
And trouble all thy fortunes with base fears.
I own with reason: for, if men but knew
Some fixed end to ills, they would be strong
By some device unconquered to withstand
Religions and the menacings of seers.
But now nor skill nor instrument is theirs,
Since men must dread eternal pains in death.
For what the soul may be they do not know,
Whether 'tis born, or enter in at birth,
And whether, snatched by death, it die with us,
Or visit the shadows and the vasty caves
Of Orcus, or by some divine decree
Enter the brute herds, as our Ennius sang,
Who first from lovely Helicon brought down
A laurel wreath of bright perennial leaves,
Renowned forever among the Italian clans.
Yet Ennius too in everlasting verse
Proclaims those vaults of Acheron to be,
Though thence, he said, nor souls nor bodies fare,
But only phantom figures, strangely wan,
And tells how once from out those regions rose
Old Homer's ghost to him and shed salt tears
And with his words unfolded Nature's source.
Then be it ours with steady mind to clasp
The purport of the skies- the law behind
The wandering courses of the sun and moon;
To scan the powers that speed all life below;
But most to see with reasonable eyes
Of what the mind, of what the soul is made,
And what it is so terrible that breaks
On us asleep, or waking in disease,
Until we seem to mark and hear at hand
Dead men whose bones earth bosomed long ago.

Lucretius, De Rerum Natura, lines 80-101, 60 B.C.

 

[Gadfly]

It seems to me the stage is set for someone, presumably someone born after 1986, to come along claiming to be Hubbard and looking for or demanding acknowledgement as the reincarnated founder. How wonderfully entertaining would that be?!

Can you imagine the media circus?

Imagine when the videos make it to youtube of the Return of the Founder Event!

That would probably be the nail in the coffin of their credibility (what little they have left).

News headlines:

L. Ron Hubbard returns as Andrew Wilson

Men and woman collapsing in the aisle from ecstatic joy



It would be so beyond ridiculous (but hey, THAT is their signature).