Question about sec checks at Flag

[Mimsey Borogrove]

I was on 7 so I can say this: the sec check has any number of questions designed to ferret this sort of stuff out. The auditor writes up KR's daily to the MAA and most likely mom was sent to the MAA who asked her to find out what books. They can also ask what internet sites you visited, and hopefully you have a password on your computer. If you don't, make one - the mom can, when she returns be instructed to turn on your computer to see the sites you visit. They are going to pull strings, via your parents, to find out how disaffected you are.

Don't be surprised if you get more similar calls. I have heard of people getting custom sec checks because some one posted information about them on some site. They had nothing to do with the posting, but got sec checked anyway.

They are going to get the DA packs, and have to study all manner of ethics PLs, do write ups, write up danger handlings etc. in preparation for trying to salvage you. If that fails, it's D day. Or they don't get OKed to get on the level. If they are true believers, and they feel their whole agonized future is on the line... don't be surprised if they cut you loose.

At Flag they walk the walk, talk the talk. And they believe. So, if your parents want the OT goodies beyond the "Double Doors" they have to keep squeaky clean. Sorry. That's how they roll.

Mimsey

 

[Free Being Me]

Cripes, talk about setting up a system of control so that nobody dares look outside of the tight little box!

Shackles for the mind, soul, life, and wallet.​

 

[anonomog]

Originally Posted by pandora

You know, although I've read the threads on this board and the horror stories, I actually find this response to be kind of paranoid. My mom was on her cell phone and she is in no way slick enough to hide the fact if someone else was listening in. Telling me that I should expect the worst isn't really the advice I was hoping for.

This reminded me of a scene in As Good as it Gets

Carol Connelly: OK, we all have these terrible stories to get over, and you-...
Melvin Udall: It's not true. Some of us have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car.

I truly hope it all turns out well with you and your mum. I would love to hear a continued connection story.

 

[Gadfly]

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

Hey there - I'm in need of advice about something that's going on...
The back story: so my parents are (since last week) at Flag; my mom is routing back on to OT5, my dad back onto OT 7 after a long break. A week before they left she and I had lunch. She's the only one in my family that I'm semi-out to as an ex-scientologist. I'm usually careful what I say around my family but lately it has been getting harder to keep my real feelings in.

Anyway, we ended up having a conversation (our second or third) about - very vaguely - my "disagreements" with the church. I usually try to stick to concrete examples, because she's still one of those "I know the tech works I've seen it and experienced it" types so I want to stay in shallow water. However, she did express her disgust at the way some ex-sea org relatives of ours were offloaded and said that she'd gone up-lines about it when it happened (here I should mention that my parents are both 40 year-plus scientologists, in good standing, pillars of the community, la da da). We both agreed how fucked it is that whenever someone we know goes into the sea org we basically never see them again. I mentioned that I've been reading books from reputable writers who are critical of scientology, namely Lawrence Wright, and that the fact checking in that book is beyond reproach so I have no reason to disbelieve it. I specifically mentioned the fact that the outpoints in the sea org don't happen in a vacuum and lead me to believe that the upper management is doing a horrible job. We ended on good terms though not, of course, seeing eye to eye.

Okay to the point: yesterday I got a phone call from her at Flag in which, apropos of nothing, she mentioned how much she "enjoyed" our conversation. I said I thought it was super awkward but that I was glad that I could be honest with her. Then she oh-so casually asked the names of the books I've been reading. Hackles went up on my end. I said, "Did someone there ask you to ask me that? Because that's really weird," and she said "No! I'm asking because I'd like to read them." Er. WTF. I had no idea what to do so I just gave her Urban's, Wright's and Jenna Miscavige's titles and she rang off. But COME ON. I mean, there's no way that she's at Flag and just happens to feel like picking up a little light anti-scientology reading, right? After we hung up I realized, duh, there's probably a sec check before routing back on to an OT level and it came up there.

So my question is... what the hell happens now? I'm correct that's she was lying when she said no one there asked her the names of the books, right? And if so, what can I expect the outcome of this to be? Will it just be fair roads fair weather from my parents from now on (which I really loathe)? Has anyone been in a similar situation as this? I should say also I almost welcome the shit hitting the fan at this point because I'm so sick of the lies and denial. And I'm not scared of disconnection either because my parents are REALLY family-oriented, and, well, I have something the church can't give them - I'm having their first grandkid in a month (is it so fucked that I think this way?)

Argh. Anyway. Sorry for the super-long post...I feel like this is the only place I can express my real feelings. Thanks for reading and for any advice you can offer.

I'd like to have a crack at giving you some advice here.

First, what's happening now to your parents.

Your Dad is on a routing form to get back onto solo nots. One of the first things done, which has already happened, was a meter check in the MAA s office. Yu may not have come up at all. "how's everything with your family?" "fine", he says, if no read, they move on. He also by now has received a metered D of P interview, very casual in appearance, but reads are noted. They wrote down a tech estimate of everything it will take auditing wise to get him back on the level and sent this to the registrar who then met with your father and reviewed his account and without question asked him to buy more hours. Unless his clear cycle was ROCK SOLID, then he could get confronted with the reality that he's not Clear and needs more hours for that too. It happened to me to the tune of $100,000.00.

Meanwhile, to keep him busy between these interviews, he retreading the OT 6 check sheet, which is a rehash of the Solo course, believe it or not. So as I type these words @ 4:45pm, EST, your Dad is in a theory courseroom or the metering courseroom so they can get student points off him. He's probably also getting called into session one to three time a day and his on a C/S Series 53 or a Green form which will get his needle to float nicely, eventually, but also results in them finding out a lot of very personal and private thoughts that a person should be allowed to keep to themselves, but not in Scientology. The auditors write KRs on "out points" and the C/Ss do too - all of this before they ever get to the eligibility issue. Bottom line - your Dad is possibly out $100,000.00 more than he expected already.

Your Mom has traveled a similar path, possibly without the courseroom work, but if she bought a bunch of hours in advance, they might have tried the 'ol "let's get you started on OT 6, while you're finishing up your OT 5" gambit, in which case, she's in the courseroom(s) too.

In any case, it's totally possible that you came up on her meter check in HCO or in the D of P interview and she's been with the MAA and that's what created the call to you. So she probably didn't waste a lot of $ on sec checks to spill the beans about you.

The dead agent handling isn't about you, it's about them. The MAA asked your Mom (about what books you suggested she read). She called you to find out, reported back and they did the simple dead agent handling on her about what criminals Lawrence Wright and the other authors are and if your Mom was satisfied with that, then situation handled.

However, that's a far cry from your pops receiving his clearance to get back into the Part B and C courseroom, much less receiving the clearance to go home packing the confidential repair lists and whatnot.

It's possible that if everything goes smooth, that a few months from now pops comes home as a Solo auditor. But, he'll be on a short leash with you and I promise that your key to the family manse will no longer work!

Sorry.

 

[Gib]

Cripes, talk about setting up a system of control so that nobody dares look outside of the tight little box!

hmm, lets see. So much for a person knows he/she won't get worse, ability to talk to anybody about anything, able to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish, freedom form the upsets of the past, moves out of fixed conditions, expanding viewpoints and being self determined

it appears the opposite occurs once one gets on the OT levels. :smoking:

 

[pandora]

Wow guys. Thanks really so much for all this information.
I should clarify that I have never talked to my dad (on OT 7) about this stuff - we're not close and he's very very loyal to the church. My mom has a long history of not telling my dad about my issues (trust me on this, it's a weird family dynamic that's been going on since I was a kid). So I'm not worried about him bringing this up in session. I'm also, as I've said, really not afraid of being identified; there is absolutely nothing I've written on this board (very little in any case) that I wouldn't stand behind one hundred percent. My right to disagree with the church is inviolate and no one is ever going to tell me that there are things I can't say or books I can't read. That is mental censorship. And as for the idea of me becoming a scientologist or ever setting foot in an org again, that's a laugh! Not in a million years. I was only one to begin with because my grandparents and parents were, and haven't lived my life according to my parent's beliefs since I left home at 14.

As far as me being declared, I just...I don't know. I sincerely doubt it. I've never been on staff, vocally started pulling away from scientology in my early teens, and am basically not important in the grand scheme of anti-scientology-ness. I don't have any smoking guns, I just think the church is full of shit and choose not to have any part of it.
However, I also - and this is not strategic, it's sincerely what I think - have always stressed to my family members that although I'm not a scientologist I *respect* (though totally disagree with) their right to choose it as their belief system if it works for them. This is the compromise I've made in order to continue having a relationship with my family -- and for me that is the main point of all of this. Any weird maneuvers the church might make to try and alienate me from my mom would only further prove that my disagreements with it are valid, and certainly my mom would see it the same way. She's not a scientology-bot. She's pure public, for lack of a better way to describe it.

Those of you on this thread who have presented the worst-case scenarios I can appreciate that you've had those experiences and I'm certainly not saying I think those things don't happen - I know they have happened. I apologize if I seemed at all snappy - I would just prefer to remain positive about the situation UNTIL it goes south, which it has not yet done. I guess we'll see what's going on with my mom in the next few weeks.

 

[pandora]

Well here's an update:
Filled with trepidation after reading through this thread I called my mom just now at Flag and asked her point blank,"Is anything we've talked about holding you up there?" She said absolutely not, and that she knows that I respect her beliefs and she respects mine and that she's speeding through her prep stuff and is ready to route back on to OT 5. So...there's that. For now.

 

[Purple Rain]

Well here's an update:
Filled with trepidation after reading through this thread I called my mom just now at Flag and asked her point blank,"Is anything we've talked about holding you up there?" She said absolutely not, and that she knows that I respect her beliefs and she respects mine and that she's speeding through her prep stuff and is ready to route back on to OT 5. So...there's that. For now.

That's so great! Your mum sounds like a cool person!

 

[Boojuum]

Well here's an update:
Filled with trepidation after reading through this thread I called my mom just now at Flag and asked her point blank,"Is anything we've talked about holding you up there?" She said absolutely not, and that she knows that I respect her beliefs and she respects mine and that she's speeding through her prep stuff and is ready to route back on to OT 5. So...there's that. For now.

I think you've got the basic understandings that will get you through this just fine. It also sounds like your mom and you have a great relationship which will continue. In my experience, if a pc has no issue with an anti-relative and the relative isn't rabid and doesn't mind that they are doing Scientology, there's no problem. If your mom was visibly upset and this was a new circumstance than it's an issue. Since your lack of faith in Scn is an old, dead issue and your mom appears cool with it, the auditing will likely continue. Maybe things are different than the old days, but my experience was that the HGC really, really wanted the WDAH's and VSD--digging for PTS conditions was not done.

However, I still don't understand why your mom originally asked what books you had read. Seems out of the blue.

 

[Rmack]

However, I still don't understand why your mom originally asked what books you had read. Seems out of the blue.

I would think it a natural question. It's a shame, though, that she probably won't read those books, but only the DA packs on them.

 

[Gib]

I would think it a natural question. It's a shame, though, that she probably won't read those books, but only the DA packs on them.

scientology is the only organization on earth that I know of that makes the customer pay for the organizations fuk ups.

:confused2:



Oh, and get a customer to stay involved. Via Sec Checks.

which means the only reason a person "blows" or "leaves" is because of their own overts and withholds.

 

[phenomanon]

Wow guys. Thanks really so much for all this information.
I should clarify that I have never talked to my dad (on OT 7) about this stuff - we're not close and he's very very loyal to the church. My mom has a long history of not telling my dad about my issues (trust me on this, it's a weird family dynamic that's been going on since I was a kid). So I'm not worried about him bringing this up in session. I'm also, as I've said, really not afraid of being identified; there is absolutely nothing I've written on this board (very little in any case) that I wouldn't stand behind one hundred percent. My right to disagree with the church is inviolate and no one is ever going to tell me that there are things I can't say or books I can't read. That is mental censorship. And as for the idea of me becoming a scientologist or ever setting foot in an org again, that's a laugh! Not in a million years. I was only one to begin with because my grandparents and parents were, and haven't lived my life according to my parent's beliefs since I left home at 14.

As far as me being declared, I just...I don't know. I sincerely doubt it. I've never been on staff, vocally started pulling away from scientology in my early teens, and am basically not important in the grand scheme of anti-scientology-ness. I don't have any smoking guns, I just think the church is full of shit and choose not to have any part of it.
However, I also - and this is not strategic, it's sincerely what I think - have always stressed to my family members that although I'm not a scientologist I *respect* (though totally disagree with) their right to choose it as their belief system if it works for them. This is the compromise I've made in order to continue having a relationship with my family -- and for me that is the main point of all of this. Any weird maneuvers the church might make to try and alienate me from my mom would only further prove that my disagreements with it are valid, and certainly my mom would see it the same way. She's not a scientology-bot. She's pure public, for lack of a better way to describe it.

Those of you on this thread who have presented the worst-case scenarios I can appreciate that you've had those experiences and I'm certainly not saying I think those things don't happen - I know they have happened. I apologize if I seemed at all snappy - I would just prefer to remain positive about the situation UNTIL it goes south, which it has not yet done. I guess we'll see what's going on with my mom in the next few weeks.

Good for you.
I was thinking that maybe your Mom ran into questions about you, or her Husband, that tipped her off to the money grubbing that was going on at Flag, and that she withdrew to her room and wrote to you about where you were getting data to support your point of view about COS.
Like I said, not very likely, but possible.
Let's just hope that if such is the case, that she can escape that hellhole intact.

phenomanon