Question about the personality test? Id like insight please

philTmonx

Patron
a funny thing occured to me while thumbing thru stories.. of all the personality tests Ive taken not once was I shown a result, EVER... I always wondered a little, but unquestionably of the 20 plus Ive taken, never have I seen the results..
any idea why? Has any one else experienced similar situations.. from others shares it seems that the standard was and is to use the test to show you what is perceived to be what you need to work on.. i am very curious..
Ive read many many stories of people being shown their faults or what not, so im confused.. I honestly always felt like it was something they didnt want me to see, and being human I felt it was to protect me from an upset... In the last few years (prior to my disconnect and due to statements by my father) that adversely I was not shown it cause maybe it was not so bad.. I did have the little ethics snot at my blow org comment very ot very ot.. what the fug...
thoughts panderings whatever, Id really like some in put thanks..
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
This should explain some of it. I have been told by a member of this board that I trust that this is a very accurate summary:

Scientology has long used a "Personality Test" also known as the OCA or
"Oxford Capacity Analysis," which was a dreamed up name given to it by LRH
so it sounded very academic. (He hated the academics but he loved to
pretend to be one.) It is used on streets as a "free personality test" to
hook people. It is also used on Scientologists to see how they are doing.

The test is 100+ questions that you answer in one of several ways, your
basic yes, maybe/sometimes, no. The answers are put into a grid sheet,
left to right, in several columns. Each of the columns will be one of the
attributes that you will later be told about.

There is a grid to "score" the "test" to give a numerical value to each
column. So an answer might give you a +3 or a -1, as the values vary,
according to the question. This is then put onto a graph so there is a
value to each attitude/characteristic. If one of the graph points is low,
that is something they point out to you that you need to improve and that
is how they use the test to evaluate you and tell you how Scientology can
help you and what books/courses you should buy.

One day, out of curiousity, I used the grid to compose a "perfect" test. I
gave the highest score for each question and scaled it out, just as if
someone had taken the score. I then graphed it out and ... low and behold!
There was no way to reach the top of the scale! The scale goes up to "100"
but there wasn't a single column that was capable of reaching 100! None of
the columns could total 100, even with perfect scores! (The highest
possible score on one column was 98.) Not only that, but "responsiblity"
dipped noticably low! With a perfect score!

So even if a person was "perfect" according to the OCA score, the graph
line wavered across the top, not reaching 100 and dropping on
"responsibility," which of couse gives the "evaluator" a chance to say,
"Well, good scores here but not quite perfect - I see you are wavering
here - and I see your low point is responsibility."

What is especially fraudulent is that this "test" is constantly used on
on people in auditing. It is often taken at the end of a rundown or an
intensive. Thus EVEN INSIDE, WITH SCIENTOLOGY you cannot hit the top, let
alone bring that that "responsibility" column up to where it belongs.

That is why the scoring grid is "confidential." It is a fraud.

Robert Vaughn Young

http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/..._Scientologys_Rigged_OCA_Personality_Test.txt
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
The OCA is used for two things.

In Div 6 it is a recruitment gimmick. The results are universally bad. There is a patter to go with the low points that is entirely designed to make a person feel absolutely shitty about his life and therefore need this course or this book to handle it. You were born in, right? So thankfully you missed this particular headfuck.

OCA is also used to assess qualifications for certain posts and to assess progress in auditing. No-one would ever think to give you the results for those, although there is no rule against seeing them.

Either way, you're not missing anything.

Oh, and welcome to ESMB. :thumbsup:
 

philTmonx

Patron
thanks noname for the insight.. thats why Im curious tho, I never was sold a course or books etc based off of them.. I dont think I scored perfect or anything like that, was just interested why I was never shown a chart or graph etc.... like I said th eonly comments I ever really got was from that ethics offficer and director of that lower org going "very ot very ot"..... altho hey that may have been the pitch to try and get me moving on the bridge..
 

Miss Pert

Silver Meritorious Patron
Firstly welcome PhilT!

In my experience I was shown my very first OCA graph and an "evaluator" went through it with me and pointed out what bad shape I was in but any done thereafter were not shown to me.

I don't know why you have never seen at least your first graph. Hey! Maybe you never got to see yours because your results were above the line and they didn't want you to know that you were doing ok and didn't need their help. :coolwink:
 
a funny thing occured to me while thumbing thru stories.. of all the personality tests Ive taken not once was I shown a result, EVER... I always wondered a little, but unquestionably of the 20 plus Ive taken, never have I seen the results..
any idea why? ...

Seems odd to me, but then I've been 'out' for 30 years. Back when I was on lines at our local mission the standard 'div 6 action' was to get new people to fill out the OCA test then have them go over the results with a div 6 registrar. The whole point was of course to interpret the results in such a fashion that the 'appropriate action' was for the new person to enroll on a div 6 course, typically the comm course. The person not only saw the OCA results but got to keep them whether or not they signed up for anything.


Mark A. Baker
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
For further reading one of the best essays on this topic can be found HERE.
Its fairly long but pretty comprehensive in giving one an idea how it works.
What it doesn't exactly explain is why anyone's 'results' would be with-held, but upon reading this article the reasons/replies posted above seem to make sense.
I am curious as to whether anyone has demanded to see their new graphs etc., and if so what was the reply?


A short exerpt from said essay~
Cris Owen said:
How Scientologists use the OCA

Before and after many stages of Scientology processing, the OCA is performed to test the personality state of the trainee Scientologist. Over time, this is supposed to show a steady increase in the OCA scores. In practice, some curious results appear. This can be seen in a number of Scientology publications; on page 220 of What Is Scientology (1992 edition) can be seen a number of graphs said to have been produced using the OCA. Several of the graphs show characteristics actually declining after auditing. Case A has apparently become less active, Case B less happy and less communicative, and Case C considerably less certain. Only one out of the four shows an across-the-board improvement.

Whatever else the OCA is, it is clear that it is not a genuine, scientifically-based personality test. What, then, is it testing and why do results change over time?

There are a couple of possibilities here. As the OCA was developed by Scientologists, it is possible that its marking scheme reflects — consciously or otherwise — the political and personal views of indoctrinated Scientologists. A new recruit to Scientology would, obviously, be at the least indoctrinated level and would thus be furthest away from the "ideal" curve on the graph. As the recruit was indoctrinated over time, his or her views on the matters raised in the OCA questionnaire would become more closely aligned with the views of the OCA's editors. In other words, the OCA may serve as a measure of how thoroughly indoctrinated a Scientologist is.

Another possibility is that a learning effect is occurring. Scientologists are frequently subjected to the OCA, often retaking the test only weeks or months apart. In this scenario, although the test itself measures nothing of any significance, the test subject is getting better at it over time. Psychologists tend to avoid setting such tests at such short intervals, leaving periods of at least several months between testing. Hubbard may not have been aware of this (or if he was, he disregarded it) — his personal knowledge of psychology appears to have been somewhat limited.

:cheers:
 

philTmonx

Patron
hummor.. so being raised in the "ethics" of the group and understanding what was expected of me as a being, would very easily throw the tests.. Ill accept that. that would also easily explain why pc are not shown latter as once they are indoctinated in to ideals and "morals" they to should be able to "tell em what they want to hear"...

yeah no wonder I was not regged alot or easily, most reg I interacted with, like at blow org were rather "freash" and I was cycled on TRs from gawd knows how small so it was always easy to out cycle them... I had some fun with this "advantage" at times.. I enjoyed the TR rooms, Im your tr9 nightmare, things like "I cant, my leg fell off":omg: I had some witty originations that would flunk just about anyone..

do fish fly? the sure as hell do...
 

Robert H

Patron
a funny thing occured to me while thumbing thru stories.. of all the personality tests Ive taken not once was I shown a result, EVER... I always wondered a little, but unquestionably of the 20 plus Ive taken, never have I seen the results..
any idea why? Has any one else experienced similar situations.. from others shares it seems that the standard was and is to use the test to show you what is perceived to be what you need to work on.. i am very curious..
Ive read many many stories of people being shown their faults or what not, so im confused.. I honestly always felt like it was something they didnt want me to see, and being human I felt it was to protect me from an upset... In the last few years (prior to my disconnect and due to statements by my father) that adversely I was not shown it cause maybe it was not so bad.. I did have the little ethics snot at my blow org comment very ot very ot.. what the fug...
thoughts panderings whatever, Id really like some in put thanks..

Another possible reason for the fact that you were not shown the results is that it may be illegal for them to actually evaluate the graph. In South Africa there is a law that says only a Qualified Psychologist is allowed to evaluate personality tests to a person. This was known by the Org, but not enforced. This was one of the reasons why we were not allowed to broadly promote the OCA test.
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
The results of my personality tests were always given to me, and they were improving every time I was taking the next test. The problem is that it was the same test, which is a no-no for the real psychologists -- they know that a person can memorize the correct answers which gives a false impression of improving the scores. A test should not be taken more than once. Scientology tests are designed to show the Scientologists that auditing improves their cognition.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Yes they were used for regging people for more services.

And by the way, there is no such thing as a perfect OCA either. If your OCA is all high on the graph, it means you are delusional and need even more auditing.

From the Case Supervisor point of view (which I was, for many many years at CCI and ASHO), that graph would need to be made to come down from that false high, then slightly come up to show improvement.

A graph that never changes is also a very bad sign to a C/S. It also means no case change.

Low on the left means psychotic. Low on the right means evil purposes. All high means delusional. All low is severe depression.

Yep, they got it all figured out, eh!?!?!?!
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
I remember that tech film that came out, I believe in the early 90s, on "testing". That Scientology guy who looks like Dick Tracy starred in it.

The film covered different kinds of "testing" that could be done.

I remember at some point in the film where it was mentioned that the only purpose of testing was to make the person realize they needed Scientology services. I don't remember how it was said or what the wording was, but that was the gist of it. It didn't really matter what the test was; it was almost implied that you could make the whole thing up if that is what got that result.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Well, I was certainly told what I needed to work on, but it was in conjunction with being shown the test.

There were a couple times when I was shown the test without being told what to work on. It was after receiving auditing, as the premise was that auditing could improve the person to a measurable testable extent.

I assume that different staff and different orgs may vary in their approach although, generally, it certainly IS used as a "regging" tool.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
I was fresh meat - a wog - walking in and taking the test with a friend. We were shown a graph of our results. Mine were not way up there, but I was quite a bit above a line drawn across the page except for one place - communication. I assumed that to be true, as I was/am quite shy in unfamiliar surrounds. My friend was below the line in a few areas, and she got PISSED - :lol: I did - I laughed out loud when she got pissed.

I've always been good at tests. :biggrin:

Anyway we took the communications course.

Maybe they were 'selling' that course - that year . . . :lol:

It is just a gimmick to get you in, and keep you trying . . . It is like a game where there is no way to win . . .

The only win is how long it takes one to figure that out.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Seems odd to me, but then I've been 'out' for 30 years. Back when I was on lines at our local mission the standard 'div 6 action' was to get new people to fill out the OCA test then have them go over the results with a div 6 registrar. The whole point was of course to interpret the results in such a fashion that the 'appropriate action' was for the new person to enroll on a div 6 course, typically the comm course. The person not only saw the OCA results but got to keep them whether or not they signed up for anything.


Mark A. Baker

Not showing (and discussing) the graph results seems odd to me also.
This was always done AFAIK.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Calling it an "Oxford" test is a deliberate attempt at deception.

And asking the exact same questions every time is unscientific and ridiculous.
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
The Wikipedia page on the OCA is appropriately damning. Like any discussion of the 'science' behind Scientology, when conducted in an arena that Scn doesn't control*... it simply reveals the nature and history of the scam.

* Scn got banned from editing the pages describing Scn some time ago. LOL...
 

Mystic

Crusader
The questions of the OCA were compiled, put together, by Julia Lewis who was a PSYCHOLOGIST. Yes, yes, she was a clam at the time she amassed those 200 question, but she was still an accredited psychologist.

You might also see her name as Julia Lewis Salmon, after she married Ken Salmon.
 

Isene

Patron with Honors
Pitching in since this is one of my home grounds, having worked professionally with the test for more than 10 years earlier and done extensive research on it.

First of all, the quote by Robert Vaughn Young contains errors. The same does Mystic's comment.

Basically, the test is a complete rip-off of the Johnson Temperament Analysis, now the Taylor-Johnson Temperament Analysis. Julia Salmen only added a tenth trait (Certain <-> Uncertain). It is a wonder the CoS has not been hit with a court case by the PPI.

Few of the traits on the OCA can reach the full +100 or -100 scores. This is due to statistical reasons and because the scoring of men and women, boys and girls are different. Most traits reach a maximum or minimum of +/- 98/99, but for instance the trait Communication can reach both +100 or -100 for a female adult. Robert's speculation that some skewed scoring is the reason for the scoring being confidential is stupid. The reason is the same as the reason why exam answer sheets are confidential. As with all such tests: it should be protected from manipulation.

My guess for the OP is that the people administering the tests in the org didn't know how to explain certain traits to you. They'd rather push a few buttons on you to make you buy than actually explain the test result.
 
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