Question for long-timers after leaving SO

tarbaby

Patron with Honors
Wow!! A lawsuit? So do you think a lot of SO members are really tempted to leave but the only thing that holds them back is the fear that there's a lawsuit afterwards from them?

Fear, period. There is extreme phobia indoctrination, not the least of which is the fear of forfeiting one's immortality. (immortal soul)

Also, do you have any ex-scn colleagues that are out too? Have they found good jobs?

My closest friends are all doing well. Mostly in their own businesses.

Dennis
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Thanks, Lulu Belle. How did you get on when you got out? Was it easy to find a decent job?


Long story. But yes, I found a job immediately.

Someone on XSO made a comment that "he had an easy time working for assholes when he got out because he had so much experience with having to work for people like that when he was in."

This was very true for me also. I had gotten very adept when I was on staff at "reading" my seniors. Learning what they liked and what would piss them off. Knowing how to get and stay on their good side. Predicting their responses to things.

Of all the skills I acquired while I was on staff, this was probably the most valuable one to me. People were always amazed how I could tolerate and get along with bosses and owners no one else could work for.

Most of my wog bosses were easy compared with some of the loons I was under in the Sea Org.
 

tarbaby

Patron with Honors
People were always amazed how I could tolerate and get along with bosses and owners no one else could work for.

Yah me too. I had some of the most twisted bosses ever after I left. But I guess I could tolerate their mistreatment because of the crazyness I survived in the cult. I probably shouldn't have put up with it in either case tho.

Most of my wog bosses were easy compared with some of the loons I was under in the Sea Org.

That's because even the craziest wog boss knows you can just walk away from the job if they get too mean. Not so in a cult.

Dennis
 

freet43

Patron with Honors
Since I was never in the SO, my story is again somewhat different than many on this list.

I was not poor while on staff at a mission - as an exec I did well enough to live and even purchase a house. When I decided to leave, because I could not reconcile with the things I was observing the CO$ was doing, and decided to return to finish my university degree, I applied for a "student job". I was honest on the application as to what I had been doing for 6 years - but I was also very certain about the skills I possessed. When I dropped off the application, I was told the job was filled - but she read over the application and ran after me down the hall to say there would be a spot for me. After a few weeks as a receptionist, and having gotten that job into the best condition anyone could ever imagine, it was obvious that I was being underutilized, and was promoted to the accounting unit. I have had no problems getting regular promotions - in fact, any interview I've gone to, I've gotten the job. Even after taking some time off to raise kids and work on an MBA - (the OEC and Management series, btw, was way more valuable than anything I studied on the MBA) - I manage a 200+ person academic department.

The skills one develops on staff, regardless of the post, are priceless. Even just doing TRs and having a decent comm cycle and presence - that is way more than many people out there have. Work ethics, ability to study and comprehend - all things that the average staff member is strong in - well, once you have your foot in the door, that is what gets one the promotions.

When the mission was destroyed a few years later by the new CO$ regime, staff dispersed. One for one former staff are very successful - most running their own businesses and many even paying the exhorbitant CO$ prices to get up the OT levels.

IMO, former staff should not have any problems landing a decent starting job, and working their way up.

And, if someone needs help in that regard, do not hesitate to ask me.
 

Mrs. Xenu

Patron
It seems to me that you all feel the same way, guys and girls. I think that you all believe that the skills and the ability to work hard and be professional was given to you by all your experiences as staff or SO members. I guess, you've had some real hardship to endure otherwise you wouldn't have survived so well. You're all doing really well. I'm glad that at least one good thing came out of your sufferings in the cult. I don't mean that the cult taught you to be like this, I feel that the things you went through, your sufferings have taught you these skills. Life is a great big school, you learn something new every day.
Just in good humour, let me add one thing: I wouldn't like any of you to be my boss because I'm sure that you'd make me work my ass off!:eyeroll:
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
when we got out of the SO we were in Denmark. Neither of us spoke Danish well enough to do anything but menial jobs. We had no money and we had no non scientology friends and no family there.

It's not a time period I recall with much pleasure - well except for one thing. We were not in the SO - and that fact alone made it great. Perhaps one (maybe the only) of the best things about having been in the Sea Org is that even the most menial of jobs, the smallest of apartments seem like something special afterwards.

As for using my "skills" from Scientology - nope. One of the few things I was certain about after I got out was that I would not base anything in my life on that flawed foundation. Now that may mean I have thrown out some stuff that was potentially useful - but that's something I was willing to do.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
As for using my "skills" from Scientology - nope. One of the few things I was certain about after I got out was that I would not base anything in my life on that flawed foundation. Now that may mean I have thrown out some stuff that was potentially useful - but that's something I was willing to do.

Heh. That ability, the ability to focus, concentrate and *determine* what you will do or feel is something that I think *is* commonly found (and trained) in Scientology. Sure, it's something exploited by the Cult, and, even when the Cult's no longer in the picture, it can be as bad as it is good, but, the ability to 'mock up' and 'dub in' and control things like perceptions and habits *can* be a very useful tool, if the tool-wielder is aware of the inherent dangers.

*A discipline*, like a wrench, can be used for good or evil. Sounds like you've found a useful application :)

Zinj
 

tarbaby

Patron with Honors
cult-de-sac

As for using my "skills" from Scientology - nope. One of the few things I was certain about after I got out was that I would not base anything in my life on that flawed foundation. Now that may mean I have thrown out some stuff that was potentially useful - but that's something I was willing to do.

Yah, Mick. After the bulb went on, I started assuming it was all flawed or at least tainted spiritually, and I even decided to try to follow the "opposite path" to escape the the cult-de-sac my life had become.

It works!
D
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ms. Xenu wrote: It seems to me that you all feel the same way, guys and girls. I think that you all believe that the skills and the ability to work hard and be professional was given to you by all your experiences as staff or SO members.


I never meant to imply that.
Any person on this planet has the ability to work hard and be professional unless they have some handicap.

I started working hard when I was 12, at a large pet store cleaning animal cages.

I simply meant to imply that I make it a point to evolve wherever I am and whatever I am doing.

I evolved in the Sea Org the same way I evolved through every other experience.

I don't understand why you even guess what "we are all" are saying , everyone said something different.

If nobody evolved in the Sea org we would all still be there.

Nobody at all even said what you summized everyone was saying.


If no one on this evolved in the Sea Org, they would still be in the Sea org.

You don't have to guess and alter what people said.

What they said is what they said and I didn't read anybody writing what you guessed they said.

You don't have to guess, it's very well written, and no two people even said the same thing.

So we all couldn't be saying the same thing you have to guess about.

You could say I evolved because of what the world has given me.

But I can't recall any handouts from anyone yet.

I am not saying I was successful because of what the Church gave me.

I am saying I am successful because I evolved.

And I am not going to pretend that evolution stopped because what building I was working in or the people there.

But you would make a great reporter!

But let's stop being coy and be honest, a person would have to lock themselves in a closet to not live and learn on any given day of their life.
 
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Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Yah, Mick. After the bulb went on, I started assuming it was all flawed or at least tainted spiritually, and I even decided to try to follow the "opposite path" to escape the the cult-de-sac my life had become.

It works!
D

The 'opposite' is the 'mirror' of the 'thing' :)

Like Marquis de Sade 'satanism' is the *opposite* of roman catholicism.

(not 'wiccan' brand 'satanism')

The 'opposite' of Scientology is *still* Scientology :)

..Ron even had a term for it and used it Himself:

'Black Dianetics' or 'Black Scientology' or 'reverse processes'

As long as it's about the terrified 'control' of reality that is the core of Scientology; it will be Scientology.

Supermen and gods don't *need* it

Zinj
 

tarbaby

Patron with Honors
the opposite of slavery

Only a bit of Zinj's post actually made any kind of sense to me. And it was bad sense at that.

The 'opposite' of Scientology is *still* Scientology

Maybe to Zinj it is. But to others of us, the opposite is the endeavor of getting closer to God or just being a kinder soul, rather than seeking to be a more "at-cause" thetan.

The Tao teaches the opposite way of a cult.

Dennis
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Only a bit of Zinj's post actually made any kind of sense to me. And it was bad sense at that.



Maybe to Zinj it is. But to others of us, the opposite is the endeavor of getting closer to God or just being a kinder soul, rather than seeking to be a more "at-cause" thetan.

The Tao teaches the opposite way of a cult.

Dennis

I don't care if it rains or freezes
Long as I've got my plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard
Of my car

The opposite of a plastic Jesus might be a pewter hand of glory on the TV

The opposite of the tao might be Clear Certainty

I dunno.

But, since I grew up in a *real* Navy family, the command-intention of a plastic hubbard *Tone 40* doesn't impinge me much.

Other people's nautage may vary :)

Zinj
 

petraph33

Patron with Honors
Mrs Xenu,
just wanted to let you know what I did in the UK after leaving. I went to Yorkshire after I left and thought that I could make it with FSMing, but realized that I was considered an absolute degraded being by those still in Scientology that I connected up with at first, and could not really mix with them anymore - my viewpoint about Scn had dramatically changed. I then also realized that my purpose to disseminate Scientology had left me in a big way, still, I do believe in basic aspects of the tech and to help people with what I know works for me and might also work for them. So what I did, as I am german and speak well english, I posted little notices in shops around the villages to assist students with german lessons or study problems (what I would do is apply the basics of study tech with them). Even if I did not get immediate responses, I know that, after I had left England, the responses to those little ads still came in. However, I needed to earn money, so I cast aside all my considerations and after I found out what a CV is ... I posted one out to the local computer firm to see if I could get a job there, no response. I did not let myself be discouraged, and so decided to take on any job I could get and work myself up. I then walked into the local Co-op shop and applied for a job in the stores, I told the manager who interviewed me that I had worked as a type of Church volunteer in Scientology before and now was starting a new life, but that I was well able to work hard and do what was required, he gave me the job and I worked there for a few weeks, after 3 days I was operating the till and was entrusted with the cash. Due to personal reasons I had to leave Yorkshire, but he gave me a great reference, which was the first I ever had outside. I then went back to Germany and decided what I really wanted to do. I had a cont level management job all the while I was in the SO and while I was nearly OEC and well management trained, was not really keen about that any longer, but enjoyed working with people a lot. so customer service or reception work indicated the most to me. I then decided to get an education and applied in germany (with 31 years of age, which is not an age to do that in germany normally...) for an education in a 4 star wellness hotel in the black forrest. I got accepted and the manager there said that he admired my courage to start all over again in my life. I did not tell him at that stage that I was a Scientologist but used the skills I had learned in the SO and otherwise to put a decent CV together. I did speak later openly about being a Scientologist and had no probelsm with that in that Hotel or with my work. So here I was getting 8 month practical education in a 4 star Hotel in germany to get a new life, after that I simply decided to go to Ireland as hat was a country I always wanted to go to, applied on-line and got a job after a few days in the south west of Ireland. The reference of that Hotel stated that the door was always open for me to return for work there. Since then I had no problems getting references and jobs and am now a well paid corporate receptionist for an international company in Dublin. I am happy and even though I am sure I could rise to a higher position, I have no intention to. I also do freelance translations to earn some extra money. That was another thing I always had to do on an allhands basis in the SO, so why not use that knowledge I gained to make something out of it. I had good and bad days in the SO, but believe that what I lived through in the SO made me very independent and able to live a happy live. What I was told, when I left was that I would not be able to get any job or fail as I am in a constant lower condition and a degraded being - what a bunch of BS!!!
All the best, Petra
 

Romuva

Patron Meritorious
It's interesting,my take on it for alot of people was despite alot of the
negative aspects of COS people did learn some skills and perhaps confidence
and maturity being in all these difficult situations that when they left they
were actually able to survive ,support themselves and even become successful.It still amazes me here how many ex-scientologists here are
intellectual and successful people.Regardless of their varying opinions
,experiences and viewpoints.

Scientology still conflicts me.I guess part of it is so much upsets me on
how good,decent,idealistic people got chewed up and spit out and so
much of what they worked so hard for got taken away from them.
To me,I don't care what anybody says.

People should be rewarded or at least,acknowleged and respected for the
hard work and sacrifices they make.
I guess it is that I see too many "unsung heros" here,or at least as I
always understood that term.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
People should be rewarded or at least,acknowleged and respected for the
hard work and sacrifices they make.
I guess it is that I see too many "unsung heros" here,or at least as I
always understood that term.

It's nice to have other people sincerely appreciate what one has done, such appreciation in terms of thoughts, words, deeds or cash, but deep down one usually knows what one has contributed whether someone else recognizes it or not.

And I find that awareness imperishable, and irreplaceable.

Paul
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
It's interesting,my take on it for alot of people was despite alot of the
negative aspects of COS people did learn some skills and perhaps confidence
and maturity being in all these difficult situations that when they left they
were actually able to survive ,support themselves and even become successful.It still amazes me here how many ex-scientologists here are
intellectual and successful people.Regardless of their varying opinions
,experiences and viewpoints.

Scientology still conflicts me.I guess part of it is so much upsets me on
how good,decent,idealistic people got chewed up and spit out and so
much of what they worked so hard for got taken away from them.
To me,I don't care what anybody says.

People should be rewarded or at least,acknowleged and respected for the
hard work and sacrifices they make.
I guess it is that I see too many "unsung heros" here,or at least as I
always understood that term.

But that's what cults do. They exploit the highest ideals and the greatest vulnerabilities of their members. They instill phobias about the impossibility or futulity of survival on your own. They take whatever they can get out of whoever they can, then they chew them up and spit them out, as damaged as they can make them so they will not be strong enough to come back at the cult seeking justice, once the former member realizes what was done to him.

Scientology goes a little bit further, though. Scientology continues to monitor and harass you after you have left, and they get your closest friends and family to disconnect from you, and they try to continue to undermine your success long after you've left.

But cult members can pick themselves up and re-constitute themselves. After all, they were re-created by the cult. So why not re-create yourself after the cult?

I look on Scientology as a very important lesson well-learned. I needed to understand how spirituality can be corrupted to exploit our greatest vulnerabilities, and to suck up all our greatest strengths.

That is a lesson I will never have to learn again on my spiritual trip into eternity.

And hopefully, that is a lesson we can all teach others, so fewer will end up like we did.
 

tarbaby

Patron with Honors
big lesson

But that's what cults do. They exploit the highest ideals and the greatest vulnerabilities of their members. They instill phobias about the impossibility or futulity of survival on your own. They take whatever they can get out of whoever they can, then they chew them up and spit them out, as damaged as they can make them so they will not be strong enough to come back at the cult seeking justice, once the former member realizes what was done to him.

The lyrics of a song about that very thing are here: (After They Break) http://www.informer.org/music.html

But they forgot a prime rule of human nature which only kicks in once you have taken from someone everything worth living for. As Bob Dylan wisely said, "When y'aint got nothin ... y'aint got nothin to lose."

Scientology goes a little bit further, though. Scientology continues to monitor and harass you after you have left, and they get your closest friends and family to disconnect from you, and they try to continue to undermine your success long after you've left.

Any oppressor wants you to stay quiet about what you experienced while being oppressed. So they make the price of opposition too great to pay for most victims to come forward. But if you've already been reduced to zero by having all your connections cut and being shunned by family and friends ... what's more to lose?

But cult members can pick themselves up and re-constitute themselves. After all, they were re-created by the cult. So why not re-create yourself after the cult?

Indeed.

I look on Scientology as a very important lesson well-learned. I needed to understand how spirituality can be corrupted to exploit our greatest vulnerabilities, and to suck up all our greatest strengths. That is a lesson I will never have to learn again on my spiritual trip into eternity. And hopefully, that is a lesson we can all teach others, so fewer will end up like we did.

Amen to that, bro.
Dennis
 
S

Steven James

Guest
I agree with the Illusioness here.

I survived very well after Scientology. During my time as Foundation staff, I was working a full time job already. Having quit that for the TTC (and not making it) and not making it I was left unemployed and living in the Org. After six-seven months of poverty I broke and had to unshackle myself of the spell I was under.

I did everything I could to get a job but it wasn't working.

Once I was disconnected from the Org, the job offers poured in! With my first job i worked really hard and they took me from part-time to full time and gave me overtime whenever they could afford it. It did not pay very much, so I used to ride my bike to work everyday to save money. I got a room in a shared house in the cheaper end of London with help from a reluctant family member.

Then a local government post became available with an employer I had tried twice in the past already. They had loads of job openings. I applied, but with lack of experience working with children they were just going to offer me a Saturday job. However, a more full-time opening became available and rather than advertise it, one of the interviewers phoned me up and gave it to me.

I have worked hard here- despite it not being the job I originally went for and now I have an option to get promoted to a more sneior level. My manager states I am one of the hardest workers he has known in his 20 years on the job.

I came out of Scientology with some great ideas and great knowledge and it works well on my post, even if I am the only employee that uses it.

I have the Freezone bi-weekly and bi-annual training camps which is enough for me to pursue other subjects and passions. I have time to play my guitar now and I have taken up violin and french lessons. I am far more in communication with people than I have ever been.

Libraries have the internet which is normally free, they have newspapers and local ads. I used the Library daily to send CV's and answer emails.

Now, I may even be lined up for an affordable home (fingers crossed).

It would be interesting to hear from somewhere who grew up in the Sea Org and then left and how they coped?
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Good for you Steven!

Thanks for sharing!

By the way, there are many things not taught in the Church, worthy of knowing if you care to succeed outside of the Church.

My own 2cents on the none existance formula: Find out what is wanted and needed, and produce that and EVEN MORE. Give far more than expected.

A few notes from Ed Steele:

9. Do the right thing; not the smart thing. Good deeds pay back better. If you don't see that, then you haven't looked far enough downstream. This encapsulates the whole concept of karma. The ultimate conclusion comes in realizing that giving and being in service to others, by themselves, provide the satisfaction that the acquisition of power, money and things fail to yield.
We're all in this together and doing unto others quite literally is the same as doing unto yourself, the touchstone of guilt. Read Dostoevsky's "Crime and Punishment" for more about the consequences of guilt than you every possibly thought you wanted to know.

10. If you want to be loved more, be more lovable. Be accountable. This single Law, if followed, would have kept America out of the Middle East and still number one on the world's Hit Parade, rather than the epitome of evil incarnate to nearly 6 billion human beings. Listen up, all you victims out there: Nobody owes you a single thing except to be left alone.
 
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